What’s with all the IC hate?

Lord-Otto

I do not think PvE and PvP should mix. Ever. The Dark Souls games come as close to nailing PvEvP as it gets, and are probably the inspiration for IC. But even there, it creates a lot of balancing options.
Speaking of, IC is so incredibly biased towards Nightblades and Cloak, it's ridiculous and just handicapping... no, chopping your hands off, to go there as a non-NB. Maybe Imperial Physique pet sorcs have a chance, but that's it.
And the aspect of losing progress is, of course, off-putting. Especially for newer players. Why would you willingly risk wasting your time?
Lastly, controlling the city does nothing for your alliance. It's a waste of good players that could help turn the tide of the campaign.

Not much good I can say about IC. I got the brazier and a couple banners for my home, got the polymorph I wanted and dumped a few Tel Var into reagents. Finished questline and exploration. And that was it. No urge to come back. Rather do a dungeon/trial for PvE or fight over a keep for PvP.

iamkeebler

I’m

Morgul667 wrote: »

Yes

And always bank your telvars

Always get in IC with zero tel var on you... like this whatever you gain and lose... at the end of you run, it is pure gain as you went in there with zero tel vars

100% agree with this. When I started to do this I stopped getting ticked off as I was always still ahead. IC is a gamble but if you do it right you’ll still turn a profit.

iamkeebler

I’ll also add that those complaining about NB cloaking abilities could always use magelight or revealing flare to detect those hidden players waiting to gank you.

driosketch

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Don't forget there are two sides to this. There are the PvP'ers, and there are the PvE'ers.

Those who are either one or the other will probably never see eye to eye. Only the players who both PvP and PvE are likely to.

That's me then. The questline is one of my favorites in the game. And I really like the back and forth group v. group v. group PVP you sometimes get in the districts. Of course once you've done the quest and outside events like this, it seems pretty dead in IC.

Palidon

I am having a blast in IC. Do the same thing every IC event. Gank. To me that is where the fun is and I am not alone. There are plenty of other players doing the same thing.

EmEm_Oh

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Don't forget there are two sides to this. There are the PvP'ers, and there are the PvE'ers.

Those who are either one or the other will probably never see eye to eye. Only the players who both PvP and PvE are likely to.

Which is why I'm not sure it's being advertised to PvE at all as an "event" and that everyone should come to the picnic table and partake in the food.

In fact, there should be warnings on the main pages along with the advertisements and "rewards".

EmEm_Oh

Morgul667 wrote: »

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iamkeebler wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

After I stopped carrying about tal var stones gain, im having a blast in there, lose some win some its all good.

I think really is the trick for full enjoyment in this zone. Don’t stress about telvar and don’t stress about dying. Just expect that you’ll die and lose telvar. It’s part of the experience. Each death is a learning opportunity to get better at navigating that zone in my opinion.

Yes

And always bank your telvars

Always get in IC with zero tel var on you... like this whatever you gain and lose... at the end of you run, it is pure gain as you went in there with zero tel vars

I recommend 100 min, so you get the 2x multiplier...then get out if you have more than 500 in your bag.

Eirella

Every time there is an IC event I remember how much I love the zone. The PvPvE element is so much fun, I wish the zone was this populated outside the event!

Gariele

(Not during the event) I love to go there and farm a little. But that feeling that you have to constantly be looking over your shoulder that you’re going to get ganked is such a rush. It’s kinda like the horror movie feel where the killer is after you. It’s a lot of fun.

(But during the event) it’s straight Yolo mode, rinse and repeat. Lots of fun. Seeing zergs of people fight is so refreshing to see.

Mr_Walker

I don't mind the dying, the risk-reward ratios need tweaking, but I don't like mixing me PvP and my PvE. When I'm doing quests I like to listen to the dialogue, and enjoy it.

SirAndy

iamkeebler wrote: »

What do you enjoy most about Imperial City?

Arriving dead out of a loading screen when entering the sewers from my base was a recurring highlight of this event ...

TheRealPotoroo

Eirinin wrote: »

Pver new to zone: *overwhelmed with pvper culture* *makes suggestions, good and bad alike*
Pvper: you're just weak/bad/terrible/good for nothing but being farmed/we drink your tears!
Pvers all quietly watching this from the sidelines: Jesus, no thanks
Pvpers: why won't you just give pvp a try? It's great!

And so it goes, tighter and tighter, until no one is even speaking the same language anymore.

This plus ZOS's refusal to put a dressing room in the game with a zero cost switch. I have nothing good to say about IC because PVE and PVP are two completely incompatible modes that should never mix. Maybe before I die I might get to do IC's quests.

iamkeebler

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

This plus ZOS's refusal to put a dressing room in the game with a zero cost switch. I have nothing good to say about IC because PVE and PVP are two completely incompatible modes that should never mix. Maybe before I die I might get to do IC's quests.

Do the quests when there isn’t an event. IC is dead when there isn’t an event going on and you can complete the quests easily then. Plus if you have “nothing good to say about IC” why you commenting on a post all about what you love about IC? Seems counterproductive... 🤔

MrTtheDK

The IC event is the only reason I am playing the game right now. Outside of PVP focused events the game has become dry and boring for those focused on PVP action.

Ostonoha

This event has been amazing. Game runs really well compared to Cyro. The different terrain in some of the zones has led to some really fun and interesting fights. Defiantly a nice change of pace from fighting in the same keeps and towers in Cyro. Now if only Cyro could run as well as IC.

Cernunnos55

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

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Eirinin wrote: »

Pver new to zone: *overwhelmed with pvper culture* *makes suggestions, good and bad alike*
Pvper: you're just weak/bad/terrible/good for nothing but being farmed/we drink your tears!
Pvers all quietly watching this from the sidelines: Jesus, no thanks
Pvpers: why won't you just give pvp a try? It's great!

And so it goes, tighter and tighter, until no one is even speaking the same language anymore.

This plus ZOS's refusal to put a dressing room in the game with a zero cost switch. I have nothing good to say about IC because PVE and PVP are two completely incompatible modes that should never mix. Maybe before I die I might get to do IC's quests.

I've never thought of IC as "a combination of PvP and PvE". It's a PvP location that has depth and story, alongside distractions that contribute to an additional challenge. There are extra rewards that can be obtained for success, but that doesn't make it a strictly PvE location

steven22

Mr_Walker wrote: »

I don't mind the dying, the risk-reward ratios need tweaking, but I don't like mixing me PvP and my PvE. When I'm doing quests I like to listen to the dialogue, and enjoy it.

In IC and especially PVP that's the most important thing to have some fun ... don't mind dying

VaranisArano

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

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TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Eirinin wrote: »

Pver new to zone: *overwhelmed with pvper culture* *makes suggestions, good and bad alike*
Pvper: you're just weak/bad/terrible/good for nothing but being farmed/we drink your tears!
Pvers all quietly watching this from the sidelines: Jesus, no thanks
Pvpers: why won't you just give pvp a try? It's great!

And so it goes, tighter and tighter, until no one is even speaking the same language anymore.

This plus ZOS's refusal to put a dressing room in the game with a zero cost switch. I have nothing good to say about IC because PVE and PVP are two completely incompatible modes that should never mix. Maybe before I die I might get to do IC's quests.

I've never thought of IC as "a combination of PvP and PvE". It's a PvP location that has depth and story, alongside distractions that contribute to an additional challenge. There are extra rewards that can be obtained for success, but that doesn't make it a strictly PvE location

Its a PvPvE zone, like Cyrodiil, because there are NPC enemies amd quests. Its just that because of the PVP part, its pretty much a PVP zone everywhere PVP is enabled. Which is the vast majority of the zone, including most of the quest locations.

So yeah, it doesnt make any sense to treat it like a PVE zone where players can't attack you. They can, and will, anytime.

Tasty

The majority of upset people are the ones there because of dbl telvar. If you don't care about the blue shinny's it is hella fun.

SidraWillowsky

Red_Feather wrote: »

There are certain things that could change. At least for the main story line quests. I saw 20+ zerg holding the arena district at one point. You simply can't do the main story at all. I got it done, but it felt cheap.

Yeah, I'd support a PvE instance of IC for the IC main quest only. No tel var. No key fragments. No skyshards. No fishing. Just the quest.

I have no trouble soloing the Arena for the quest, for example (in terms of being able to kill the adds/bosses), but every time I've tried someone has come and killed me right before I finish. I prefer to quest alone, so I don't want to have to drag people along every time I want to go to IC to work on the main quest. I don't even care about the quest rewards- I just find the arena and its backstory so interesting and this is literally the first time I've been truly interested in doing a quest simply for the sake of doing it. Yet... I'm at the mercy of other players sometimes and they can gate keep my progress should they so desire.

To be clear, I love the IC zone IC the way it's "meant" to be played as well, with the high risk adding a nice sense of danger to the area. I just don't think that the main zone quest should be part of that. The dailies, etc... whatever. They can be normal PvPvE stuff. But I want to be able to do the main quest in peace and do it alone without a group to fight off other players...

TheRealPotoroo

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

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TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Eirinin wrote: »

Pver new to zone: *overwhelmed with pvper culture* *makes suggestions, good and bad alike*
Pvper: you're just weak/bad/terrible/good for nothing but being farmed/we drink your tears!
Pvers all quietly watching this from the sidelines: Jesus, no thanks
Pvpers: why won't you just give pvp a try? It's great!

And so it goes, tighter and tighter, until no one is even speaking the same language anymore.

This plus ZOS's refusal to put a dressing room in the game with a zero cost switch. I have nothing good to say about IC because PVE and PVP are two completely incompatible modes that should never mix. Maybe before I die I might get to do IC's quests.

I've never thought of IC as "a combination of PvP and PvE". It's a PvP location that has depth and story, alongside distractions that contribute to an additional challenge. There are extra rewards that can be obtained for success, but that doesn't make it a strictly PvE location

Nobody said it was a strictly PVE zone, least of all me. It's a hybrid zone and it's awful because of it. Plus, as I did say, ZOS refuse to put a dressing room into the game so we can all have a minimum of two completely separate setups, including one for PVP we can switch to which might -- might -- make our time there marginally less excruciating.

VaranisArano

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Eirinin wrote: »

Pver new to zone: *overwhelmed with pvper culture* *makes suggestions, good and bad alike*
Pvper: you're just weak/bad/terrible/good for nothing but being farmed/we drink your tears!
Pvers all quietly watching this from the sidelines: Jesus, no thanks
Pvpers: why won't you just give pvp a try? It's great!

And so it goes, tighter and tighter, until no one is even speaking the same language anymore.

This plus ZOS's refusal to put a dressing room in the game with a zero cost switch. I have nothing good to say about IC because PVE and PVP are two completely incompatible modes that should never mix. Maybe before I die I might get to do IC's quests.

I've never thought of IC as "a combination of PvP and PvE". It's a PvP location that has depth and story, alongside distractions that contribute to an additional challenge. There are extra rewards that can be obtained for success, but that doesn't make it a strictly PvE location

Nobody said it was a strictly PVE zone, least of all me. It's a hybrid zone and it's awful because of it. Plus, as I did say, ZOS refuse to put a dressing room into the game so we can all have a minimum of two completely separate setups, including one for PVP we can switch to which might -- might -- make our time there marginally less excruciating.

I think a Dressing Room or some kind of loadout system is something both PVEers and PVPers can agree we'd love to get!

Wait...that means ZOS is going to charge us crowns per loadout per character, aren't they?

iamkeebler

I’m actually a fan of how this game has you create different characters to complete different objectives. I’ve got a few PvP toons, some for PvE, and some just for messing around with lore. I’m one of the odd ones out that doesn’t really think the game needs a dressing room.

GhostofDatthaw

I don't know why, but I feel the pve players who get all upset about PvP are the entitled raiders who scoff at people who can't hit +40k dps and have alot of top level gear. They throw on thier all gold sets and head into PvP. Sad thing is they actually don't understand the mechanics of PvP and get rekt. Granted it's probably a small number but these are the people who imo would be vocal on the forums. I don't think the 5 hour a week casual who roleplays and quests is going to comment on builds and skill changes

msalvia

It's a PvP event, and pvers need their ticket fix for yet another basic-@$$ mount that does exactly the same thing as all the other mounts (nevermind that you can pve for the tix by doing the IC dungeons--Rage!)

For real though, it's not enough that 90% of the stuff in this game is pve, including events. But hey, at least during these pvp events we expand the taxonomy of forum complaints. With no pvp events it's all pvpers whining and demanding nerfs. At least during the event we get to sample different whines.

JumpmanLane

zyk wrote: »

In addition to all other factors, I think the fact that PVE is so forgiving plays a role. I think there are a lot of casual players who presume they're really good at ESO because they cruise through the PVE content. They might also think their unique builds are very clever.

I think it's legitimately shocking and embarrassing when they face real competition from other players who truly understand the game, build properly and are very skilled for the first time. I'm not just talking about overland players, but also PVE raiders with decent rotations because PVP is such a different game.

I felt that way in 2014 after I cruised to level 50 without learning most of the rules and hit pre-nerf VR content like it was a brick wall. I was so embarrassed I wrote angry feedback to ZOS before looking in the mirror and realizing I didn't actually know how to play ESO.

Yes! Yes! ^ This! THIS! I read two sentences and it’s all THIS!

TheRealPotoroo

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I don't know why, but I feel the pve players who get all upset about PvP are the entitled raiders who scoff at people who can't hit +40k dps and have alot of top level gear. They throw on thier all gold sets and head into PvP. Sad thing is they actually don't understand the mechanics of PvP and get rekt. Granted it's probably a small number but these are the people who imo would be vocal on the forums. I don't think the 5 hour a week casual who roleplays and quests is going to comment on builds and skill changes

You're projecting. I am none of those things but I still loathe PVP.

Katahdin

Lord-Otto wrote: »

But even there, it creates a lot of balancing options.
Speaking of, IC is so incredibly biased towards Nightblades and Cloak, it's ridiculous and just handicapping... no, chopping your hands off, to go there as a non-NB. Maybe Imperial Physique pet sorcs have a chance, but that's it.

.

And yet I see lots of dragonknights, wardens, necros, templars and sorcs down there wrecking everyone, including nightblades. There are just as many dragonknights, wardens, necros and templars as there are nightblades so where exactly is this bias?

jaime1982

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's a zone almost single-mindedly designed for nightblades to gank and bomb people. A "lambs to the slaughter" design. No risk vs reward. Go ganking/bombing with 0 Tal Var, kill some people, deposit in the bank, repeat. No other class can do it because it relies on being able to spam Cloak.

They should disable Cloak in IC. Then it would be interesting.

They should also limit the amount of Tel Var you can get from killing a player to the amount of Tel Var you are carrying.

Show us where the bad nb touched you.

dtsharples

I don't think we need a dressing room, when you can carry as many sets as you like in your inventory.
What is stopping you from changing into a PVP focused set before entering the Imperial City? You'd check that you were wearing a suitable set for PVE, it's exactly the same for a zone where there is PVP.

If you are heading to the Imperial City / Sewers as someone who normally only PVE's, there's a couple of pieces of advice I'd give:

Craft yourself some Impenetrable Armour. Plenty of craft-able sets are great for PVP.
The NPCs are pathetically weak, even the Bosses, you don't need that much extra damage from Divines.
The only real threat to you is other players, and Impen armour will help you to stay alive.

Go in with no less than 25k HP. A sniper is much less likely to target you if you aren't the lowest HP member in the vicinity. Don't make yourself an easy meal.

Craft yourself some Invisibility potions for when you get into sticky situations, it might just keep you alive long enough to escape.

Buy some of the recall stones, you don't want to find yourself with 10k Tel Var and have no way to bank them.

Keep your buffs up at all times, you don't have the luxury of starting a fight on your terms like in PVE. You can be ambushed at any time, never, ever let your guard down - especially when fighting a boss.

Look for choke points, and when you approach them be very, very vigilant. This is where you'll likely get ganked.

Do not go alone. Group up with a few friends / guildies, and make sure that they do the above also ^