Multi-bidding so far - GM & Officers how is it for you?

dvonpm

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Do you realise the disconnect in your post? In this system, a guild doesn't own any trader, ever. Yet you say you don't want to mess with some other guilds' spots. This alone, to me, is proof that the guild trader system is rotten to its core.

It's not a disconnect if you realize that there is no benefit to starting a bidding war for a lateral move. I honestly do not understand why you think guilds would want to risk moving all over map every week or why not wanting that chaos is an indication of some evil rot.

The only reason this idea makes sense, that I can think of anyway, is that you expect all guilds to be furiously trying to get into better spots. And that if we aren't it's only because we can't, because cabals or whatever. That's not true. Please clarify if there is something else you are getting it, because I'm not seeing it.

My guild has a spot that we like and we want to keep it and will do what we can within reason and ethics to keep it. That isn't the bidding system, that's a basic fact of life. It's the same reason business don't just randomly move across the street for no reason. Or attempt hostile takeovers of properties they can't afford.

I'm honestly just baffled about what you think should be happening.

It's a freaking auction system! Yet you treat it as fixed spots for the same guild, week in, week out. I understand *why* you do it, but it does show that the trader system is a farce.

Ok. There are many threads dedicated to that topic. This one really isn't.

daemonios

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Do you realise the disconnect in your post? In this system, a guild doesn't own any trader, ever. Yet you say you don't want to mess with some other guilds' spots. This alone, to me, is proof that the guild trader system is rotten to its core.

It's not a disconnect if you realize that there is no benefit to starting a bidding war for a lateral move. I honestly do not understand why you think guilds would want to risk moving all over map every week or why not wanting that chaos is an indication of some evil rot.

The only reason this idea makes sense, that I can think of anyway, is that you expect all guilds to be furiously trying to get into better spots. And that if we aren't it's only because we can't, because cabals or whatever. That's not true. Please clarify if there is something else you are getting it, because I'm not seeing it.

My guild has a spot that we like and we want to keep it and will do what we can within reason and ethics to keep it. That isn't the bidding system, that's a basic fact of life. It's the same reason business don't just randomly move across the street for no reason. Or attempt hostile takeovers of properties they can't afford.

I'm honestly just baffled about what you think should be happening.

It's a freaking auction system! Yet you treat it as fixed spots for the same guild, week in, week out. I understand *why* you do it, but it does show that the trader system is a farce.

Ok. There are many threads dedicated to that topic. This one really isn't.

And you get to decide that... why, exactly? This thread is about multi-bidding. I and others have noted how it's exposed flaws in the guild trader system. Don't like it? You don't have to reply to me

jainiadral

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

So - my guild is in Mournhold, arguably one of the more desirable cities in which to sell. I currently have approximately 30 available member slots. We do not charge dues nor do we have sales minimums.

I'm sure my guild is not the only one with space, nor the only one that doesn't charge fees/minimums.

If one of your five guild spots is free, what's stopping you (or anyone) from selling?

The fact people don't like joining guilds?

Or we can take the power away from guilds and let everyone sell like many of the better mmos do.

Can I ask why you don't want to join a guild? There's no requirement to actually interface with anyone; plenty of the people in my guild never speak with anyone. You can turn off the guild's chat, sell through the store, done. There's no impact to your play, as far as I can tell.

I'm truly curious, not attempting to be antagonistic.

Just speaking as someone who isn't exactly guild material and tried a stint in a trading guild:

1. The second you log in and the MOTD changes, you get an annoying notification. For my guild, it was constant messages about raffles or "get selling or get kicked." Getting greeted with that set an unpleasant tone for the rest of my play session.
2. I felt too guilty to shut off guild chat especially after I got an unwelcome promotion to officer after a good sales week. So I'd be off doing some quest and someone would be recruiting for a trial. Over and over. It was just disruptive to my lone wolf zen
3. There's this sense of obligation and commitment even in no-fees guilds. I'd always force myself to remember to make a donation when I was at the bank, and in the proper denomination since I hate raffles.

Bottom line, I like my freedom and I hate feeling tied down.

reoskit

jainiadral wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

So - my guild is in Mournhold, arguably one of the more desirable cities in which to sell. I currently have approximately 30 available member slots. We do not charge dues nor do we have sales minimums.

I'm sure my guild is not the only one with space, nor the only one that doesn't charge fees/minimums.

If one of your five guild spots is free, what's stopping you (or anyone) from selling?

The fact people don't like joining guilds?

Or we can take the power away from guilds and let everyone sell like many of the better mmos do.

Can I ask why you don't want to join a guild? There's no requirement to actually interface with anyone; plenty of the people in my guild never speak with anyone. You can turn off the guild's chat, sell through the store, done. There's no impact to your play, as far as I can tell.

I'm truly curious, not attempting to be antagonistic.

Just speaking as someone who isn't exactly guild material and tried a stint in a trading guild:

1. The second you log in and the MOTD changes, you get an annoying notification. For my guild, it was constant messages about raffles or "get selling or get kicked." Getting greeted with that set an unpleasant tone for the rest of my play session.
2. I felt too guilty to shut off guild chat especially after I got an unwelcome promotion to officer after a good sales week. So I'd be off doing some quest and someone would be recruiting for a trial. Over and over. It was just disruptive to my lone wolf zen
3. There's this sense of obligation and commitment even in no-fees guilds. I'd always force myself to remember to make a donation when I was at the bank, and in the proper denomination since I hate raffles.

Bottom line, I like my freedom and I hate feeling tied down.

Thank you for the insight; these things make sense. Just in response, not countering:

1 - MOTDs are a good example of play interference and I forgot about them. I stage my MOTD updates in a private guild and then transfer over when I'm sure-ish they're right to avoid updating too much. That flashing notification icon is a bit like whack-a-mole, no? While the MOTD tool is helpful for communication, perhaps there's value in ZOS adding a base UI option (non-addon) to hide the notifications, like leaderboards.

(I'm sure some GMs/officers won't like this suggestion - but IMO if your guildies hate your MOTD notifications, it would be better they turned it off rather than continually building resentment with your guild.)

2 - Who on Nirn bumps guildies to officer involuntarily simply based on sales? Unless they use their officer chat as some sort of VIP sellers club?

Anyway, I totally get the lone-wolf thing. Even as a GM, I go offline and switch to a chat channel that *only* has NPC chatter, and go do my own thing - housing, questing, just farming in peace & quiet... It ensures I keep enjoying ESO.

3 - It sounds like you're great guild material. ;P

Thanks again for the response.

jainiadral

reoskit wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

So - my guild is in Mournhold, arguably one of the more desirable cities in which to sell. I currently have approximately 30 available member slots. We do not charge dues nor do we have sales minimums.

I'm sure my guild is not the only one with space, nor the only one that doesn't charge fees/minimums.

If one of your five guild spots is free, what's stopping you (or anyone) from selling?

The fact people don't like joining guilds?

Or we can take the power away from guilds and let everyone sell like many of the better mmos do.

Can I ask why you don't want to join a guild? There's no requirement to actually interface with anyone; plenty of the people in my guild never speak with anyone. You can turn off the guild's chat, sell through the store, done. There's no impact to your play, as far as I can tell.

I'm truly curious, not attempting to be antagonistic.

Just speaking as someone who isn't exactly guild material and tried a stint in a trading guild:

1. The second you log in and the MOTD changes, you get an annoying notification. For my guild, it was constant messages about raffles or "get selling or get kicked." Getting greeted with that set an unpleasant tone for the rest of my play session.
2. I felt too guilty to shut off guild chat especially after I got an unwelcome promotion to officer after a good sales week. So I'd be off doing some quest and someone would be recruiting for a trial. Over and over. It was just disruptive to my lone wolf zen
3. There's this sense of obligation and commitment even in no-fees guilds. I'd always force myself to remember to make a donation when I was at the bank, and in the proper denomination since I hate raffles.

Bottom line, I like my freedom and I hate feeling tied down.

Thank you for the insight; these things make sense. Just in response, not countering:

1 - MOTDs are a good example of play interference and I forgot about them. I stage my MOTD updates in a private guild and then transfer over when I'm sure-ish they're right to avoid updating too much. That flashing notification icon is a bit like whack-a-mole, no? While the MOTD tool is helpful for communication, perhaps there's value in ZOS adding a base UI option (non-addon) to hide the notifications, like leaderboards.

(I'm sure some GMs/officers won't like this suggestion - but IMO if your guildies hate your MOTD notifications, it would be better they turned it off rather than continually building resentment with your guild.)

2 - Who on Nirn bumps guildies to officer involuntarily simply based on sales? Unless they use their officer chat as some sort of VIP sellers club?

Anyway, I totally get the lone-wolf thing. Even as a GM, I go offline and switch to a chat channel that *only* has NPC chatter, and go do my own thing - housing, questing, just farming in peace & quiet... It ensures I keep enjoying ESO.

3 - It sounds like you're great guild material. ;P

Thanks again for the response.

Haha, well, I apparently had officer authority even if I wasn't ever called one. That may have been a relic of an ancient time within the guild but I really don't know *shrug* I only talked to the GM three or four times, one of those when I was recruited. I think I had the authority to kick people-- I remember seeing the control once when I tried to teleport to a guildie. After that, I was way too paranoid to use the TP functions in case I accidentally moused to the wrong choice

Anyway, thanks for the compliment I did my best, but guilds have been a big driver in burning me out on games. There's that psychic feeling of being tied down.

Cuz I'm as free as a bird now, and this bird will never change

Nestor

spekdah wrote: »

convert=concert. Hmm where is edit function?

So, have to refresh the page right after posting to see the gear icon

StabbityDoom

jainiadral wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

So - my guild is in Mournhold, arguably one of the more desirable cities in which to sell. I currently have approximately 30 available member slots. We do not charge dues nor do we have sales minimums.

I'm sure my guild is not the only one with space, nor the only one that doesn't charge fees/minimums.

If one of your five guild spots is free, what's stopping you (or anyone) from selling?

The fact people don't like joining guilds?

Or we can take the power away from guilds and let everyone sell like many of the better mmos do.

Can I ask why you don't want to join a guild? There's no requirement to actually interface with anyone; plenty of the people in my guild never speak with anyone. You can turn off the guild's chat, sell through the store, done. There's no impact to your play, as far as I can tell.

I'm truly curious, not attempting to be antagonistic.

Just speaking as someone who isn't exactly guild material and tried a stint in a trading guild:

1. The second you log in and the MOTD changes, you get an annoying notification. For my guild, it was constant messages about raffles or "get selling or get kicked." Getting greeted with that set an unpleasant tone for the rest of my play session.
2. I felt too guilty to shut off guild chat especially after I got an unwelcome promotion to officer after a good sales week. So I'd be off doing some quest and someone would be recruiting for a trial. Over and over. It was just disruptive to my lone wolf zen
3. There's this sense of obligation and commitment even in no-fees guilds. I'd always force myself to remember to make a donation when I was at the bank, and in the proper denomination since I hate raffles.

Bottom line, I like my freedom and I hate feeling tied down.

Thank you for the insight; these things make sense. Just in response, not countering:

1 - MOTDs are a good example of play interference and I forgot about them. I stage my MOTD updates in a private guild and then transfer over when I'm sure-ish they're right to avoid updating too much. That flashing notification icon is a bit like whack-a-mole, no? While the MOTD tool is helpful for communication, perhaps there's value in ZOS adding a base UI option (non-addon) to hide the notifications, like leaderboards.

(I'm sure some GMs/officers won't like this suggestion - but IMO if your guildies hate your MOTD notifications, it would be better they turned it off rather than continually building resentment with your guild.)

2 - Who on Nirn bumps guildies to officer involuntarily simply based on sales? Unless they use their officer chat as some sort of VIP sellers club?

Anyway, I totally get the lone-wolf thing. Even as a GM, I go offline and switch to a chat channel that *only* has NPC chatter, and go do my own thing - housing, questing, just farming in peace & quiet... It ensures I keep enjoying ESO.

3 - It sounds like you're great guild material. ;P

Thanks again for the response.

Haha, well, I apparently had officer authority even if I wasn't ever called one. That may have been a relic of an ancient time within the guild but I really don't know *shrug* I only talked to the GM three or four times, one of those when I was recruited. I think I had the authority to kick people-- I remember seeing the control once when I tried to teleport to a guildie. After that, I was way too paranoid to use the TP functions in case I accidentally moused to the wrong choice

Anyway, thanks for the compliment I did my best, but guilds have been a big driver in burning me out on games. There's that psychic feeling of being tied down.

Cuz I'm as free as a bird now, and this bird will never change

I think you'd do better with a different guild :P

dvonpm

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Do you realise the disconnect in your post? In this system, a guild doesn't own any trader, ever. Yet you say you don't want to mess with some other guilds' spots. This alone, to me, is proof that the guild trader system is rotten to its core.

It's not a disconnect if you realize that there is no benefit to starting a bidding war for a lateral move. I honestly do not understand why you think guilds would want to risk moving all over map every week or why not wanting that chaos is an indication of some evil rot.

The only reason this idea makes sense, that I can think of anyway, is that you expect all guilds to be furiously trying to get into better spots. And that if we aren't it's only because we can't, because cabals or whatever. That's not true. Please clarify if there is something else you are getting it, because I'm not seeing it.

My guild has a spot that we like and we want to keep it and will do what we can within reason and ethics to keep it. That isn't the bidding system, that's a basic fact of life. It's the same reason business don't just randomly move across the street for no reason. Or attempt hostile takeovers of properties they can't afford.

I'm honestly just baffled about what you think should be happening.

It's a freaking auction system! Yet you treat it as fixed spots for the same guild, week in, week out. I understand *why* you do it, but it does show that the trader system is a farce.

Ok. There are many threads dedicated to that topic. This one really isn't.

And you get to decide that... why, exactly? This thread is about multi-bidding. I and others have noted how it's exposed flaws in the guild trader system. Don't like it? You don't have to reply to me

To people who want an AH, every trade guild discussion is an excuse to beat that dead horse. But hey, enjoy the dead horse beating

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Dark_Lord_Kuro

My 3 guild work with fees only
Before it was 15k-15k-10k weekly now its 20k-20k-10k totalising 200k per month

We are ine mournhold eldenroot and wayrest

Arrodisia

Unfortunately, the bids are getting too inflated in midtier and lower tier areas. It's getting rougher for the smaller, mid sized guilds, and newer guilds, even some guilds within alliances, to compete with that. I would love to show the screenshots of the bids to prove it, but we'll lose all of our spots if I post them here. Plus, they'll inflate even more. I will gladly show ZOS the difference of the bids, in multiple areas for multiple different guilds, allianced and non allianced to show how drastic the change is, and how many high selling guilds are unable to recover the higher and higher loses each week. High sales, combined with raffles, farming on the side at unhealthy hours to offset bid loses and such were already a thing to barely scrape by. Now those things combined don't even cover the higher loses. We have much higher sales than before and none of our guilds have broken even once with bids since the change.

Best regards

dvonpm

Let's hope it settles into something manageable. Best of luck to everyone tonight, except the people bidding on "my" spot

martinhpb16_ESO

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately, the bids are getting too inflated in midtier and lower tier areas. It's getting rougher for the smaller, mid sized guilds, and newer guilds, even some guilds within alliances, to compete with that. I would love to show the screenshots of the bids to prove it, but we'll lose all of our spots if I post them here. Plus, they'll inflate even more. I will gladly show ZOS the difference of the bids, in multiple areas for multiple different guilds, allianced and non allianced to show how drastic the change is, and how many high selling guilds are unable to recover the higher and higher loses each week. High sales, combined with raffles, farming on the side at unhealthy hours to offset bid loses and such were already a thing to barely scrape by. Now those things combined don't even cover the higher loses. We have much higher sales than before and none of our guilds have broken even once with bids since the change.

Best regards

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Not sure if you guys have seen any of the posts in this thread. This quote sums up nicely the impact on mid to low tier guilds because of multi-bidding.

I hope that you Zos can have this as a point of discussion and please remember this is not just a game mechanic but is impacting on the QOL of Gm's and officers. Thank you for your time.

OsManiaC

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately, the bids are getting too inflated in midtier and lower tier areas. It's getting rougher for the smaller, mid sized guilds, and newer guilds, even some guilds within alliances, to compete with that. I would love to show the screenshots of the bids to prove it, but we'll lose all of our spots if I post them here. Plus, they'll inflate even more. I will gladly show ZOS the difference of the bids, in multiple areas for multiple different guilds, allianced and non allianced to show how drastic the change is, and how many high selling guilds are unable to recover the higher and higher loses each week. High sales, combined with raffles, farming on the side at unhealthy hours to offset bid loses and such were already a thing to barely scrape by. Now those things combined don't even cover the higher loses. We have much higher sales than before and none of our guilds have broken even once with bids since the change.

Best regards

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Not sure if you guys have seen any of the posts in this thread. This quote sums up nicely the impact on mid to low tier guilds because of multi-bidding.

I hope that you Zos can have this as a point of discussion and please remember this is not just a game mechanic but is impacting on the QOL of Gm's and officers. Thank you for your time.

Friend, thank you for your efforts and I really envy you and agree on your side most of the time.

But I couldnt understand how you still wait a comment from zos?

every word and every sentence here already was in PTS feedback threads also in 10s of topics in general area.

we will need to adapt this hell or gone for good. this feature will not be on their priority list, they may change in Q2 of 2020 maybe. but for now it is over.

Mathius_Mordred

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

Dont_do_drugs

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

Mathius_Mordred

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

Dont_do_drugs

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Mathius_Mordred

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Excuse me? What is your problem?

I am not bragging about anything. The questions was: "Multi-bidding so far - GM & Officers how is it for you?"

"I said it's great, we get a guild trader every week", that was my answer to the question.
We are not primarily a trading guild, but if we can get one we offer that service at a huge loss to our members, we don't charge a fee and if we can't afford to bid one week we won't.

martinhpb16_ESO

OsManiaC wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Unfortunately, the bids are getting too inflated in midtier and lower tier areas. It's getting rougher for the smaller, mid sized guilds, and newer guilds, even some guilds within alliances, to compete with that. I would love to show the screenshots of the bids to prove it, but we'll lose all of our spots if I post them here. Plus, they'll inflate even more. I will gladly show ZOS the difference of the bids, in multiple areas for multiple different guilds, allianced and non allianced to show how drastic the change is, and how many high selling guilds are unable to recover the higher and higher loses each week. High sales, combined with raffles, farming on the side at unhealthy hours to offset bid loses and such were already a thing to barely scrape by. Now those things combined don't even cover the higher loses. We have much higher sales than before and none of our guilds have broken even once with bids since the change.

Best regards

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Not sure if you guys have seen any of the posts in this thread. This quote sums up nicely the impact on mid to low tier guilds because of multi-bidding.

I hope that you Zos can have this as a point of discussion and please remember this is not just a game mechanic but is impacting on the QOL of Gm's and officers. Thank you for your time.

Friend, thank you for your efforts and I really envy you and agree on your side most of the time.

But I couldnt understand how you still wait a comment from zos?

every word and every sentence here already was in PTS feedback threads also in 10s of topics in general area.

we will need to adapt this hell or gone for good. this feature will not be on their priority list, they may change in Q2 of 2020 maybe. but for now it is over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6USeDqM9Dc

victory.immortalb16_ESO

Well as a 'victim' of the new system (our guild failed to get any trade spot last week so had a week of no sales) I can say I don't like it.

In theory it could be a decent system to enable other guilds to take the top selling spots, but in reality that ship sailed several years ago- the biggest trade guilds have billions and aren't going to budge.

Where it really impacts is mid tier, which has now just become a mess. As well as now taking way too much time and resources for the officers and leader when it's supposed to be fun and a game.

At this stage it would make more sense to just have an AH, but we all know that's not going to happen, so the other solution is to have one shiny new trading area and throw all the guild traders in that one spot with 4 portal arrival spots so you arrive at a random entrance each time, and just charge a fixed fee for a trading stand. Would make for a much better market and a lot more convenience for players who can then search for the item they want without galloping across the earth to find it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Yes, how DARE those guilds, not even created as trading guilds, not even managed as trading guilds, not even labeled as trading guilds, and, most of all, not approved by the big conglomerates, how DARE they speak up, how DARE they bid on a guild trader, how DARE they operate at loss as long as they can, how DARE they step on your lawn. HOW DARE THEY ?
Because, this is your lawn, right ? Not your personal lawn, DDD, but the exclusive lawn of big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds. Oh no, not even that. Not the guilds, but their GMs and officers (because of course, the normal peasant knows nothing about anything regarding bidding and trading). And how DARE ZOS implement changes to the system without seeking your approval first. How DARE THEY ? People these days...

anitajoneb17_ESO

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Plus, they'll inflate even more. I will gladly show ZOS the difference of the bids, in multiple areas for multiple different guilds, allianced and non allianced to show how drastic the change is, and how many high selling guilds are unable to recover the higher and higher loses each week. High sales, combined with raffles, farming on the side at unhealthy hours to offset bid loses and such were already a thing to barely scrape by. Now those things combined don't even cover the higher loses. We have much higher sales than before and none of our guilds have broken even once with bids since the change.

The most basic knowledge of economics shows that all guilds that cannot sustain the prices will stop bidding or bid lower once they're out of gold, which in turn will lower the overall bidding level. It will all settle over time and it is much too soon to make a judgement on the new system.
But sorry, how DARE I have an opinion, let alone express it and referring to basic economics.

martinhpb16_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Yes, how DARE those guilds, not even created as trading guilds, not even managed as trading guilds, not even labeled as trading guilds, and, most of all, not approved by the big conglomerates, how DARE they speak up, how DARE they bid on a guild trader, how DARE they operate at loss as long as they can, how DARE they step on your lawn. HOW DARE THEY ?
Because, this is your lawn, right ? Not your personal lawn, DDD, but the exclusive lawn of big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds. Oh no, not even that. Not the guilds, but their GMs and officers (because of course, the normal peasant knows nothing about anything regarding bidding and trading). And how DARE ZOS implement changes to the system without seeking your approval first. How DARE THEY ? People these days...

Yes good point that's the big problem. "Big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds" are doing ok under multi bid because they have excessive funds and influence.

Mid - low tier guilds are struggling, especially those that do see themselves as trade guilds and have put in a lot of effort over the years. The new system has not opened the door of equality and has not created one size fits all zones with equal selling potential.

There are lots of non-trade guilds with some cash now bidding on spots, catching out the low-ball bids. Thats ok they can have a chance but it impacts on bids, people and ultimately trading. So many guilds now with hardly any goods and bids are increasing. So many mid-low tier guilds who work really hard are having a hard time. Maybe that was DDD point.

Thats not a good thing right? People struggling and having a hard time.

FrancisCrawford

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Plus, they'll inflate even more. I will gladly show ZOS the difference of the bids, in multiple areas for multiple different guilds, allianced and non allianced to show how drastic the change is, and how many high selling guilds are unable to recover the higher and higher loses each week. High sales, combined with raffles, farming on the side at unhealthy hours to offset bid loses and such were already a thing to barely scrape by. Now those things combined don't even cover the higher loses. We have much higher sales than before and none of our guilds have broken even once with bids since the change.

The most basic knowledge of economics shows that all guilds that cannot sustain the prices will stop bidding or bid lower once they're out of gold, which in turn will lower the overall bidding level. It will all settle over time and it is much too soon to make a judgement on the new system.
But sorry, how DARE I have an opinion, let alone express it and referring to basic economics.

In the long run, you're surely correct. But recall what Keynes said about the long run. Or, if you can't recall it off the top of your head, please don't lecture anybody else about economics.

martinhpb16_ESO

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

In the long run, you're surely correct. But recall what Keynes said about the long run. Or, if you can't recall it off the top of your head, please don't lecture anybody else about economics.

I had to look it up.

The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again.

Fiktius

'''

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Yes, how DARE those guilds, not even created as trading guilds, not even managed as trading guilds, not even labeled as trading guilds, and, most of all, not approved by the big conglomerates, how DARE they speak up, how DARE they bid on a guild trader, how DARE they operate at loss as long as they can, how DARE they step on your lawn. HOW DARE THEY ?
Because, this is your lawn, right ? Not your personal lawn, DDD, but the exclusive lawn of big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds. Oh no, not even that. Not the guilds, but their GMs and officers (because of course, the normal peasant knows nothing about anything regarding bidding and trading). And how DARE ZOS implement changes to the system without seeking your approval first. How DARE THEY ? People these days...

It's about a time to take a chill pill.

Look, there is a massive difference in the perspective where these guilds are looking the situation.
I will use a few examples, so it should be easier to understand what I try to say with this:

Guild A: Big trading guild in A tier location.

Guild B: Medium sized trading guild in B tier location.

Guild C: Small sized trading guild in C tier location.

Guild D: A guild which is not focused on trading, yet do try to hire a trader weekly basis for providing a guild trader for their community on the side.

Now let's put a Sherlock hat on and consider which guilds are most impacted:

Does Guild A suffer most?
- Nope. They've existed for years. Most of them got strong & experienced guild cores with massive weekly sale numbers.
Not to mention existing warchest, which they've gathered during several years they've existed.
Do they have to bid higher? Very high likely. They may loose their prime spot if they bid too low, but their back up bids are high enough to deal with this inconvenience they have to deal with if they get pushed to secondary location. Otherwise they are quite fine and that's very unlikely to change.

Does Guild B suffer most?
- Probably not the most, but Guild B is now in the sandwich situation: Opportunist smaller guilds got a risk removed.
They are free to try to outbid another guild as primary bid and still place secondary bid at their previous spot at smaller tier zone. Meanwhile if guild A somehow manages to drop on secondary location, Guild B is more likely going to loose a spot and get knocked to secondary location. And guess in what kind of location back ups of this kind of guilds are located at?

Does Guild C suffer most?
- There, this tier is the one who will have to take the bullet. Small trade guilds which just try to have a trader somewhere, but have no serious way to deal with a competition, which comes from above via domino chain. Such a good place to be, right?
ZOS do not give a flying cow either, so weeks are turning out to be miserable for Guild C more often.

How about Guild D then?
- They are often bidding on location, which is not desired by actual trade guilds more often, so it's easier to win a trader in location like Outlaw Refugees. Multi-bidding is very good thing for guilds like this, so no wonder why they do like the change.

TL:DR summary:

Your guild type and location does have a massive impact how guild GMs are viewing multi-bidding results.
It's easier to be self-centered and just focus on own guild and their success, but when you take an objective look around you, multi-bidding might not be one of the brightest ideas developers had during this year.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Fiktius wrote: »

Look, there is a massive difference in the perspective where these guilds are looking the situation.

Definitely.
All those who've had their special place in the sun for years feel the change is negative.
All those who start making their own place in the sun now thanks to the new system feel the change is positive.

Still the loud voices claim that their view is more legit than any other (because, you know, experience and all). They even claim they speak in "one voice", as if all others did not exist.
Talk about biased :-)

Moonfalcon462

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Do you realise the disconnect in your post? In this system, a guild doesn't own any trader, ever. Yet you say you don't want to mess with some other guilds' spots. This alone, to me, is proof that the guild trader system is rotten to its core.

It's not a disconnect if you realize that there is no benefit to starting a bidding war for a lateral move. I honestly do not understand why you think guilds would want to risk moving all over map every week or why not wanting that chaos is an indication of some evil rot.

The only reason this idea makes sense, that I can think of anyway, is that you expect all guilds to be furiously trying to get into better spots. And that if we aren't it's only because we can't, because cabals or whatever. That's not true. Please clarify if there is something else you are getting it, because I'm not seeing it.

My guild has a spot that we like and we want to keep it and will do what we can within reason and ethics to keep it. That isn't the bidding system, that's a basic fact of life. It's the same reason business don't just randomly move across the street for no reason. Or attempt hostile takeovers of properties they can't afford.

I'm honestly just baffled about what you think should be happening.

It's a freaking auction system! Yet you treat it as fixed spots for the same guild, week in, week out. I understand *why* you do it, but it does show that the trader system is a farce.

Ok. There are many threads dedicated to that topic. This one really isn't.

And you get to decide that... why, exactly? This thread is about multi-bidding. I and others have noted how it's exposed flaws in the guild trader system. Don't like it? You don't have to reply to me

To people who want an AH, every trade guild discussion is an excuse to beat that dead horse. But hey, enjoy the dead horse beating

Wanting world-wide linked auction houses is beating a dead horse?

The current system is beyond stupid and probably a factor why long time players quit TESO.

Mathius_Mordred

Fiktius wrote: »

'''

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Yes, how DARE those guilds, not even created as trading guilds, not even managed as trading guilds, not even labeled as trading guilds, and, most of all, not approved by the big conglomerates, how DARE they speak up, how DARE they bid on a guild trader, how DARE they operate at loss as long as they can, how DARE they step on your lawn. HOW DARE THEY ?
Because, this is your lawn, right ? Not your personal lawn, DDD, but the exclusive lawn of big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds. Oh no, not even that. Not the guilds, but their GMs and officers (because of course, the normal peasant knows nothing about anything regarding bidding and trading). And how DARE ZOS implement changes to the system without seeking your approval first. How DARE THEY ? People these days...

It's about a time to take a chill pill.

Look, there is a massive difference in the perspective where these guilds are looking the situation.
I will use a few examples, so it should be easier to understand what I try to say with this:

Guild A: Big trading guild in A tier location.

Guild B: Medium sized trading guild in B tier location.

Guild C: Small sized trading guild in C tier location.

Guild D: A guild which is not focused on trading, yet do try to hire a trader weekly basis for providing a guild trader for their community on the side.

Now let's put a Sherlock hat on and consider which guilds are most impacted:

Does Guild A suffer most?
- Nope. They've existed for years. Most of them got strong & experienced guild cores with massive weekly sale numbers.
Not to mention existing warchest, which they've gathered during several years they've existed.
Do they have to bid higher? Very high likely. They may loose their prime spot if they bid too low, but their back up bids are high enough to deal with this inconvenience they have to deal with if they get pushed to secondary location. Otherwise they are quite fine and that's very unlikely to change.

Does Guild B suffer most?
- Probably not the most, but Guild B is now in the sandwich situation: Opportunist smaller guilds got a risk removed.
They are free to try to outbid another guild as primary bid and still place secondary bid at their previous spot at smaller tier zone. Meanwhile if guild A somehow manages to drop on secondary location, Guild B is more likely going to loose a spot and get knocked to secondary location. And guess in what kind of location back ups of this kind of guilds are located at?

Does Guild C suffer most?
- There, this tier is the one who will have to take the bullet. Small trade guilds which just try to have a trader somewhere, but have no serious way to deal with a competition, which comes from above via domino chain. Such a good place to be, right?
ZOS do not give a flying cow either, so weeks are turning out to be miserable for Guild C more often.

How about Guild D then?
- They are often bidding on location, which is not desired by actual trade guilds more often, so it's easier to win a trader in location like Outlaw Refugees. Multi-bidding is very good thing for guilds like this, so no wonder why they do like the change.

TL:DR summary:

Your guild type and location does have a massive impact how guild GMs are viewing multi-bidding results.
It's easier to be self-centered and just focus on own guild and their success, but when you take an objective look around you, multi-bidding might not be one of the brightest ideas developers had during this year.

You forgot about type E

Type E Guild

Typical everyday PVE social guild who get a trader at a loss for the good of their members (so far like type D), however they have access to almost unlimited funds to teach Type A a badly needed lesson in humility by removing them from their top spot for as long as they see fit if they forget that this is just a game and start coming on here throwing their imaginary weight around.

TL/DR
It's not advised to pick a fight with someone when you have no idea what they have on their back bar!