Multi-bidding so far - GM & Officers how is it for you?

hiyde

reoskit wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

They are there and that is beyond the intent of what ZOS created the Trader System. ZOS expected that each guild would be a single group of it's own without political alignments, further it was done when there was a faction divider as well so they did not expect guilds to grow beyond 500.

Please point me to someplace, any place, that ZOS said anything of the sort.

*cuts ties with Hiyde*

So, how do we go about this divorce? Like, you can keep the guild house, but I’m getting full custody of the Officer Team.

I'll take the billions and billions and billions in the guild bank.

hiyde

Grimm13 wrote: »

1) Trader system was made when a faction wall was in place.
2) They have never made any provisions to have guilds larger than 500.
3) No advance tools to mange a larger guild or multiple guilds.
4) They have never referenced a guild larger than 500 in their guides.
5) If they had intended for guilds to be larger, they would have done so (It's been asked for)

Deducted reasoning follows that they did not. As for them expecting or stating that they did, here is what follows that.

OK I'll bite:

1) You do realize that the "wall" only existed until people completed Cadwell's Silver and started Cadwell's gold?

2) Nor have they ever said that the same management cannot run more than 1 guild

3) No advanced tools to manage even 1 trade guild lol

4) See #2

5) See #2

Bonus answer:
*Your* "deducted" reasoning brought YOU to that conclusion. My deductive reasoning tells me that if they didn't want the same management running more than one guild, it wouldn't be possible to be an officer in more than one guild (or maybe even be a member of more than one guild?)

dvonpm

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Grimm13

Cani wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Here is how to fix it.


Add a global Ah.


Problem solved. This issue is stupid. This ah system is stupid. A reason why MMOs have a global ah.

They also have constant Inflation, from what I've heard

Actually that is incorrect on games that have item degradation. When things wear out and need replacing it helps to control a healthy market.

tahol10069

Cani wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Here is how to fix it.


Add a global Ah.


Problem solved. This issue is stupid. This ah system is stupid. A reason why MMOs have a global ah.

They also have constant Inflation, from what I've heard

So you have never experienced a game with AH? Go and try one. You won't want to come back to this insanity. This trading system is from Satan. I have no other explanation for someone coming up with this idiocy.

JPS

reoskit wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

But if it comes from crown selling... Are you serious ? Are you saying that some guys (and not only one or two) are ready to (and already do) spend hundreds of USD/EUR week after week after week just to keep a trader ? That sounds totally insane ! Are you assuming, or do you actually know some who do ?
If those guys (whom I'd diagnose are sick) truly exist, then I'd suggest to just leave them be, and simply live the happy life as a simple trader in one of their guilds. Because I don't see any of this changing, since it's $$$ for ZOS that goes straight into the gold sink, so I don't see ZOS acting against them...

You know - I thought the same thing back when they were debating whether it was legit to sell crowns in game. Someone said that crown selling would lead to people buying gold to pay for kiosks. I chuckled at it, scoffed at it.

But, there was actually a guy in one of these threads (please don't make me find it) who outright said he was doing it. For the one that says he's doing it, there are likely others who are doing it but not saying it.

I agree with you (contain your suprise); it's nutty.

I'm doing it... /wave

daemonios

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Do you realise the disconnect in your post? In this system, a guild doesn't own any trader, ever. Yet you say you don't want to mess with some other guilds' spots. This alone, to me, is proof that the guild trader system is rotten to its core.

anitajoneb17_ESO

JPS wrote: »

I'm doing it... /wave

Are you ? For real ?
Care to explain why ?
I don't intend to tell you what to do or not to do with your own money, but I'd like to understand...
Spending your IRL money to get whatever you wnat ingame (costumes, whatever) is fine, since it's, for each item, a one-time expense. But hiring a guild trader is a weekly, evergoing expenditure.
So may I ask what's in it for you ? What "pleasure" or "entertainment" or whatever positive you find in sepnding RL money to get a trader in a game that will be mostly of use, not for yourself, but for your 499 guildies there ?
Also, do you realize it's a kind of "not playing on equal grounds" ? Something like running on steroids in a sport competition ... ?
I'm honestly curious ...

anitajoneb17_ESO

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

How can you even think that this doesn't happen!

the question is rather "how can you go on GMing a trading guild in the full knowledge that you're competing with people that you can never actually be competitive against, and then blame it on the multibidding system, which has nothing to do with it ?"

Dont_do_drugs

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

How can you even think that this doesn't happen!

the question is rather "how can you go on GMing a trading guild in the full knowledge that you're competing with people that you can never actually be competitive against, and then blame it on the multibidding system, which has nothing to do with it ?"

Not sure tho, thought fin quit like me and osman.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

How can you even think that this doesn't happen!

the question is rather "how can you go on GMing a trading guild in the full knowledge that you're competing with people that you can never actually be competitive against, and then blame it on the multibidding system, which has nothing to do with it ?"

Not sure tho, thought fin quit like me and osman.

But if I understood well, you & osman quit over multibidding. Crown gifting has been around for a little while already, much longer than multibidding. It didn't make you quit.
Is it so that there was no real competition before (due to mono-bidding and all the arrangements and cooperation behind the curtains) and that multi-bidding reinstated competition, thus making crown gifting a more crucial issue ?

Dont_do_drugs

Hmmm let's say I managed dodging a lot of stuff the recent year. Tho I quit before already and wanted to disband and jt and Tse, but friends asked me to not disband, so they took over lead. Back then I quit over the aetherial dust dupe. See I had a tough time before not only kicking bots and beeing after that but also kicking people who were massively reselling for bots in my guilds. But after all we never were able to get some kind of agreement bcs someone would sit on that anyways also, and someone trying to stick to some fair trade rules would always be that one idiot. So I had been th at one idiot cutting my sales and kicking some power sellers while they just went to my neighbors. When that aeth dust drop happened I told my neighbor to kick those dupers and he also was furious about them but didn't do anything for quite a while and even joked to me "why should I kick them, they make good sales for his guild." that's where I was sure I will quit. It was the first week where jt was about to get from nr4 pc EU to nr3. I worked my ass off. But truth is, if ure not playing foul or putting up a blindfold regarding things ur sellers are doing, ure not gonna enter top, how hard u work on recruiting.,its not gonna work out. Bots, bot resellers, fake sales, dupers. And u cannot even answer it in other ways since u will only throw out ur gold since the top is filthy rich. Tho I have to saY I didn't manage to always stay as clean as I wanted, the frustration over those unsolved problems hit me sometimes as well, I also had times where I started looking away while then friends motivated me to take a look again. Soo I also know my former neighbors were that frustrated as well, some get corrupted early some are naive and hopeful longer. And if guild a would quit on some practices but guild d doesn't agree to stop those, then guild a gets a disadvantage towards maybe a hard competetor and enemy so they just won't do it as well.

So I came back last year after both gm which took my guild quit and had a pretty weak recruiting activity and I didn't want to watch both my guilds go down like trash guilds. I blindfolded myself over the things some members sold and dodged most bs in trading by beeing nice to everyone who I needed to be nice to and brought guilds back up again, while watching everyone else around me getting shot while eating popcorn and beeing less gentlelady to those of which I knew they wouldn't risk a war in the frontrow anyways. Truth also is, I never was a threat to anyone anyways, I am open and direct about things I dislike but I do not start bidding wars...im not stupid.


Trade guild competition is broken a lot and zos went on breaking it more and more over the years.

martinhpb16_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

How can you even think that this doesn't happen!

the question is rather "how can you go on GMing a trading guild in the full knowledge that you're competing with people that you can never actually be competitive against, and then blame it on the multibidding system, which has nothing to do with it ?"

I am competitive because I play the 'great game' of trading politics, which you don't have access too.

Where have I blamed crown selling to fund bids on multi-bidding? Thou doth conflate too much!

I return to my specific evidential points.

- At least three respectable guilds that I know about have folded. Two more are about to go. Apparently there are more that have already gone.
- The system is disproportionately affecting mid and lower tier guilds
- Bid amounts have gone up impacting negatively on the quality of life of some members and GMs.

Further evidential points of experience are listed by other contributors to this thread.

We get that you like multi-bidding, it would be wonderful to hear about things that are actually happening rather than these persistent and pervasive counterpoints of ambiguity.

martinhpb16_ESO

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

How can you even think that this doesn't happen!

the question is rather "how can you go on GMing a trading guild in the full knowledge that you're competing with people that you can never actually be competitive against, and then blame it on the multibidding system, which has nothing to do with it ?"

Not sure tho, thought fin quit like me and osman.

Nope still going strong the tradelings talked me around. Hope to see you back soon

Dont_do_drugs

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

How can you even think that this doesn't happen!

the question is rather "how can you go on GMing a trading guild in the full knowledge that you're competing with people that you can never actually be competitive against, and then blame it on the multibidding system, which has nothing to do with it ?"

Not sure tho, thought fin quit like me and osman.

Nope still going strong the tradelings talked me around. Hope to see you back soon

Nope. U need to flirt to other girls now. 😜

anitajoneb17_ESO

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Other evidential points of experience are listed by other contributors to this thread.
We get that you like multi-bidding, it would be wonderful to hear about things that are actually happening rather than the persistent and pervasive counterpoints of ambiguity.

We get that you hate multibidding and want to collect every single opinion against it (even those which have nothing to do with the actual multibidding system), but it would be wonderful to be able to hear all testimonies and not only the ones that suit you, without you desperately trying to set your own filter onto this thread (which you've started but do not own). Thank you.

@Dont_do_drugs : thanks for your honesty. Obviously the hurdles to fair competition have been around for nearly as long as the game itself, which was kind of obvious for everyone, even from outside the system, at least regarding botting and bots' sales in the major trading guilds. I'd be curious of the real impact of crown selling ... but it's hard to measure I guess.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

So basically guilds disbanded because they couldn’t get enough money for their spot that they have to have?

Dont_do_drugs

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

So basically guilds disbanded because they couldn’t get enough money for their spot that they have to have?

Well, just speaking for myself. My guilds have been sitting on a good backup tho. But to go on successfully and not lose each week like 5 till 8m into bids each guild I would have had to raise requirements like most top competetors did, 10k or 20k fee each week, even if I did run a while successfully by lowballing somehow without that fees, the income all neighbors and competetors would have been running far ahead.

I always highly disliked fees concepts, actually even that fee if someone isn't able to sell for a week, but it was okay as long as someone did sell most of the time and wasn't only sitting in guild paying for it, not earning from it. I wanted to maintain active trading guilds, not cheesy donating guilds.

The new requirements rising everywhere around me do not fit with my idea and concept of how a trading guild has to run: by sales taxes, so I decided to pull the plug here. Not gonna let my great guilds become one of those many "pay 20k so u are allowed to trade". 4 years ago when I took over the rawl guild from former gm I wiped all signs of such a concept they had in their early time, feeling ashamed of it.

People should feel joy in trading by seeing income growing and getting gold for things they want to buy then, not feeling forced to pay additional fees and donations to get access to trading.

martinhpb16_ESO

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

How can you even think that this doesn't happen!

the question is rather "how can you go on GMing a trading guild in the full knowledge that you're competing with people that you can never actually be competitive against, and then blame it on the multibidding system, which has nothing to do with it ?"

Not sure tho, thought fin quit like me and osman.

Nope still going strong the tradelings talked me around. Hope to see you back soon

Nope. U need to flirt to other girls now. 😜

I'll wait

anitajoneb17_ESO

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

So basically guilds disbanded because they couldn’t get enough money for their spot that they have to have?

Yes. Looks like a good summary.
In theory, they could have waited, even without a trader, until things settle, until the market dries out the guilds that cannot sustain such a high level of bids, and bidding amounts go back to some sort of real market value.
But that's the theory. The reality is that some if not most players just want a trader (that's why they joined a trading guild in the first place) and they're not patient at all when there's no trader. They just leave and knock next door.
So it's a catch 22 situation for now.

As for now one of my guilds has been keeping its usual trader (but it's a big top guild so it's kinda normal), and my other guild has been struggling more. So far members have been asked to please please stick around and sell a lot, until things settle, even if temporarily without a trader. Works pretty well so far, people aren't hemorraeging, but it's a guild with strong link and social commitment among members, so it's probably not a behaviour to be expected in a standard trading guild.

martinhpb16_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Other evidential points of experience are listed by other contributors to this thread.
We get that you like multi-bidding, it would be wonderful to hear about things that are actually happening rather than the persistent and pervasive counterpoints of ambiguity.

We get that you hate multibidding and want to collect every single opinion against it (even those which have nothing to do with the actual multibidding system), but it would be wonderful to be able to hear all testimonies and not only the ones that suit you, without you desperately trying to set your own filter onto this thread (which you've started but do not own). Thank you.

But that's not true is it, so maybe you should stop making stuff up. You could support your viewpoint by listing real experiences.

This post was very clearly set out in its intentions to collate the actual experience of officers and Gms of multi bidding so far, good and bad. On the whole it was going well until post #61 and then it began to drift and you steered that drift. Perhaps if you had not steered that drift there would have been more positive examples forthcoming.

You will see that I tried to bring it back on track with a balance post at #71. I tried again at #80 and #89.

There is not one example of me in this thread disputing the experience of anyone reporting a positive experience of multi-bidding, so you made that up.

Going back to your previous false accusation - Where have I blamed crown selling to fund bids on multi-bidding?

On you last false accusation - How have I set a filter on this thread that stops anyone sharing their positive experience of multi bidding so far?

Urigall

The multi-bidding system is being used as a scapegoat (and a convenient way of ignoring the elephant in the corner) Multi-bidding has upset the equilibrium that existed previously (with the skewing factor of some players gaming the system, thus causing problems for genuine bidders) That equilibrium had little to do with competitive practices. Agreements amongst guilds were one of the obvious factors that maintained the artificial equilibrium. It was artificial because the majority of guilds were never a party to the agreements.

ZoS is being attacked because what was - reasonably - certain, no longer obtains. But change was necessary. ZoS weren't screwing around with the old system. ZoS aren't screwing around with the new system either. ZoS acted because they wanted the screwing around to stop, or at least be ameliorated.

Anything other than multi-bidding wouldn't have worked. If anything, the situation would have been exacerbated. Rich guilds could then have bought up even more kiosks than they are buying at present. At least the multi-bidding system introduces a bit of uncertainty. And here's the amusing bit...I don't think multi-bidding is in its final form.

The old system was changed because it was being gamed. The new system is being gamed. ZoS probably planned for the latter eventuality - they're clever peeps. Maybe they're just waiting for the right climate to introduce further changes. Remind me...are kiosks being bought at way over value and then being left with less than a page of 30-day inventory? Give them enough rope.

anitajoneb17_ESO

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

On you last false accusation - How have I set a filter on this thread that stops anyone sharing their positive experience of multi bidding so far?

By preventing people (or trying to) from putting their experiences into context and perspective.

rager82b14_ESO

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.


This is just more proof it needs to happen. Going back to the broken old way of guilds always able to keep it from others is dumb, and now this new system guilds are breaking up because they can't always have it.



Bad system is bad.

Urigall

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

Straying off topic here (I am anyway) Getting rid of guilds takes away - at a stroke - what is, in some cases, years of work of running a guild. Is that fair treatment? Several hundred members per guild could find themselves without an activity they enjoy. Disclosure - I'm one of the latter group. Is that, in itself, justified? Both of these are subjective matters, albeit ones that will yield ready answers of either yes or no. On the basis of fair treatment, it seems wholly wrong - to me - to wipe out years of hard work and to prevent players taking part in their chosen activity. That's a subjective opinion but life often requires us to give opinions as opposed to facts. And yes, ESO is much more than trading. Equally, trading is a big part of ESO for thousands of players (don't ask me for empirical numbers though)

Although negative sentiment doesn't lend itself to calculation, it is, nevertheless, something all commercial entities have to consider. How the entity is perceived, continuing to be a customer and so on - these are all related to customer sentiment. Getting rid of guilds would generate a huge amount of negative sentiment. Any commercial entity would think long and hard before deliberately pissing off a large part of its customer base. From a purely commercial standpoint, scrapping guilds overnight would not be a decision taken without good reason. So far, we don't have a good enough reason. Yes, trading is messed up (partly) purely because a few players are screwing around. Remove those few players and we would have far less aggro. The system would work. And the trading system has been running for years, so ZoS seem to support it in preference to an AH.

Are buyers disadvantaged by the kiosk system? Only if they can't be bothered searching for an item and travelling around. The flip side is getting it without any trouble. I prefer having to expend a bit of effort to achieve something but I'm an old school kind of guy. Dinosaurs like me will probably be extinct in a generation or so. Which leads me back to your comment about everyone being able to sell.

Everyone being able to sell is another version of getting something without expending effort. ESO requires players to jump through all sorts of hoops in order to carry out quests. Joining a guild - and working to maintain ones place therein - is just another hoop to jump through, in order to be allowed to participate in trading. From a purely immersion point of view, I'm agin people being able to sell stuff, without having to go to the trouble (not that there's much trouble involved) of participating in a guild. I make gold through trading because I expend effort. If others want to make gold they should have to do the same.

reoskit

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

So - my guild is in Mournhold, arguably one of the more desirable cities in which to sell. I currently have approximately 30 available member slots. We do not charge dues nor do we have sales minimums.

I'm sure my guild is not the only one with space, nor the only one that doesn't charge fees/minimums.

If one of your five guild spots is free, what's stopping you (or anyone) from selling?

JPS

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JPS wrote: »

I'm doing it... /wave

Are you ? For real ?
Care to explain why ?
I don't intend to tell you what to do or not to do with your own money, but I'd like to understand...
Spending your IRL money to get whatever you wnat ingame (costumes, whatever) is fine, since it's, for each item, a one-time expense. But hiring a guild trader is a weekly, evergoing expenditure.
So may I ask what's in it for you ? What "pleasure" or "entertainment" or whatever positive you find in sepnding RL money to get a trader in a game that will be mostly of use, not for yourself, but for your 499 guildies there ?
Also, do you realize it's a kind of "not playing on equal grounds" ? Something like running on steroids in a sport competition ... ?
I'm honestly curious ...

My reasons are twofold I guess... For one, I kinda inherited this guild and instead of letting it die I decided to keep it alive. The main reason for that kinda subsided by now, but I just wanted to keep certain people together.
Why I put real money in it... Well, why not? It's a hobby, hobbies cost money. It makes no difference to me if I buy myself yet another airport for Xplane / P3D where I will never fly, or I buy another purple anodized part for my R/C car just because I think it looks cool (being lighter and going faster is just an added benefit), or I buy and sell crowns to maintain a trader for example.
As for equal grounds and it being fair or not... I'm sorry, that's a discussion I don't wish to get into nor care about. There are as much opinions as there are people.

rager82b14_ESO

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

So - my guild is in Mournhold, arguably one of the more desirable cities in which to sell. I currently have approximately 30 available member slots. We do not charge dues nor do we have sales minimums.

I'm sure my guild is not the only one with space, nor the only one that doesn't charge fees/minimums.

If one of your five guild spots is free, what's stopping you (or anyone) from selling?

The fact people don't like joining guilds?

Or we can take the power away from guilds and let everyone sell like many of the better mmos do.

martinhpb16_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

On you last false accusation - How have I set a filter on this thread that stops anyone sharing their positive experience of multi bidding so far?

By preventing people (or trying to) from putting their experiences into context and perspective.

How am I preventing people?

Please give an example so I can see it, thanks

Going back to your previous false accusation - Where have I blamed crown selling to fund bids on multi-bidding?

Eirinin

I'm not a guild leader, I'm just weighing in as a buyer. A lot of the places I normally shop due to their huge selection and fair prices are now occupied by guilds selling four redguard couches, a fern, and a pot of stew. Not impressed. I hope we can get back to better selection of wares soon.