U23 Combat Q&A

Carbonised

Ad Searing Heat: That was a politician's non-answer, if ever I saw one. "why did it take a (wasted) passive to get DK's dots on par with all other dots?" -> "we want the DK player to know 'this is how you make your dots stronger'". Your answer makes no sense. You didn't address the point that for a DK you have to waste 2 skills points and a passive, which could have had other, better effects, in order to get your DPS on dots be the same as every other class og non-class dot. Can you seriously not see this?`

Ad Volendrung: You're absolutely wrong, either willfully or ignorant. Volendrung doesn't cause "chaos" in PvP, quite the opposite, Volendrung is hoarded by the winning faction, preferably with Emp bonuses as well, in order to steamroll the other factions and take the entire map. That's not chaos, that's in fact quite the opposite.

WeylandLabs

VaranisArano wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Can somebody please direct me to the performance question and answer ?

I would presume somebody did ask this, as its an issue across all platforms for a long time now.

Or did this community of potatoes get bamboozled again for the 3 straight year. 😂

People asked, but the combat team didn't answer because here's the official word on performance: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681

In my old profession I had to analyze wording based on loans.

I have seen these before and are 100% blanket statements. They use the same language in wording just in different context. To not allow the misinterpretation of actual fixes and changes. Granted there will be changes, but nothing good enough we actually recognize.

I can break them all down if you like ?

Do you know what a blanket statement is ?

There are certain questions that you can say to not get a generalized answer.

VaranisArano

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Can somebody please direct me to the performance question and answer ?

I would presume somebody did ask this, as its an issue across all platforms for a long time now.

Or did this community of potatoes get bamboozled again for the 3 straight year. 😂

People asked, but the combat team didn't answer because here's the official word on performance: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681

In my old profession I had to analyze wording based on loans.

I have seen these before and are 100% blanket statements. They use the same language in wording just in different context. To not allow the misinterpretation of actual fixes and changes. Granted there will be changes, but nothing good enough we actually recognize.

I can break them all down if you like ?

Do you know what a blanket statement is ?

There are certain questions that you can say to not get a generalized answer.

So, why exactly do you think ZOS is going to answer your question with anything other than the "blanket statement" official post, when they ignored every other performance question in the Q&A thread?

The way I see it, they ignored those questions because the only answer they are going to give, unsatisfying though it may be for you, is in that official post.

Alienoutlaw

I cant believe we waited so long for so little, nothing has been answered further than has already been put n patch notes, a totally futile exercise. Just more smoke and mirrors from ZOS

RMerlin

Are you satisfied with the current implementation of Volendrung?
Yes. It does what it was designed to do, which is to cause mass chaos for a short while, then when its gone, things return back to normal.

It doesn't cause mass chaos, It causes mass lagging and disconnecting, since it draws the whole faction to stack on top of it, and the server cannot handle it. I thought the goals were to reduce server load and to encourage the faction to not stack together - this thing does the complete opposite.

I was originally in favor of the idea because I liked the idea of allowing someone beside the AP farming emperor to feel "at the top". This quickly changed since it went live. When it spawns, I generally hope it will either stay behind the gate, or get thrown to the slaughterfish. Quite a few in zone chat echo that same sentiment.

Dalsinthus

As much as I want to encourage them to communicate more with us, their answers to questions like this and to questions on ESO Live are always kind of frustrating. They never really dig into the details of a concern and kind of gloss over everything. My favorite was Bosmer players concerned about having useless passives and loss of racial identity -> they'll ignore the problem or suggest a fix through a new stealth system sometime in the future, maybe!

I've frankly been increasingly dissatisfied with the direction of the game since Murkmire. Several characters that I enjoyed playing have been hit repeatedly with major nerfs and it just kind of takes the fun out of the game. These answers suggest we are going to continue to see massive quarterly changes for years to come and honestly, that does not appeal to me as a player. Add on to that the massive increase in performance issues since Elsweyr and the game just more frustrating than fun. I've been playing less and less as a result.

SirLeeMinion

I appreciate your direct answers. Unfortunately, they all seemed to be: "We're pretty sure we are right and the player base is wrong. So, we've disregarded your input..." I'll look forward to doing more than collecting log-in rewards when your metrics have led you back to a fun game with diverse builds and fewer bugs.

WeylandLabs

VaranisArano wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Can somebody please direct me to the performance question and answer ?

I would presume somebody did ask this, as its an issue across all platforms for a long time now.

Or did this community of potatoes get bamboozled again for the 3 straight year. 😂

People asked, but the combat team didn't answer because here's the official word on performance: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681

In my old profession I had to analyze wording based on loans.

I have seen these before and are 100% blanket statements. They use the same language in wording just in different context. To not allow the misinterpretation of actual fixes and changes. Granted there will be changes, but nothing good enough we actually recognize.

I can break them all down if you like ?

Do you know what a blanket statement is ?

There are certain questions that you can say to not get a generalized answer.

So, why exactly do you think ZOS is going to answer your question with anything other than the "blanket statement" official post, when they ignored every other performance question in the Q&A thread?

The way I see it, they ignored those questions because the only answer they are going to give, unsatisfying though it may be for you, is in that official post.

Ohhh no bro - I'm not saying there going to answer any of my questions. Im just saying based on patterns and trends, they follow the same corperate structure I was used to being apart of. And knowing first hand what that is like, I can make calculated choices.

Look ESO is a great game - had a lot of fun, but the changes you will see is nothing new. It's the same thing they have been doing for 5 years already. Do me a favor find old YouTube content creators. Then go to old patch notes listen to them it's all the same today just reworded with different language. Sure proc sets and other things were different but the base line .... still the same.

It's not going to change becuase the engine and everything there on is outdated and nobody uses cause it's all strictly proprietary. So nobody can use it but Zenimax ... I can almost guarantee somebody high up at ZOS will be fired due to lack of execution and other failed reasons.

I'm just here to watch the show 🍿

I don't even play anymore ....

Tommy_The_Gun

So class skills audit is next... hmm.

I wonder if they will treat WW as a "class". I know that it is not. It is a world skill line, but WW is basically an Ultimate that gives you an entire new set of skills & passives. So If I were to compare - "class" is the closest thing that comes to mind.

GrimTheReaper45

Why was there so little addressing mag builds? Like we have issues too. Like the fact that mag across the board for all classes preforms lower than stam

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, this is a friendly reminder that comments posted should adhere to our forum rules and remain constructive. We understand there will be conflicting views and disagreements between forum members, however, we ask that you keep comments civil and respectful. Thank you.

UrbanMonk

Class balance next. Hmm... can I get a proper stun for my Magden, given you sent Shock clench to oblivion?

PoseidonEvil

Adding cast times to Ultimates appears to be a change most people here have reacted negatively to. Why are these cast times being added? What issue is the team attempting to solve with this change?
Ultimate abilities are some of the most powerful abilities in the game. We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much. You also can’t animation cancel them because we don’t want players to be able to instantly cast them anymore. They are just too powerful.

now we ALL must play the same way. Same skill level for every player no matter how long you have invested in the game to learn your characters mechanics lolol.

gg ZoS

Ladislao

Game balancing is a process, not an end goal. So constant changes and meta shifts are normal for MMO. People either adapt or leave, and this is also normal.

But what concerns me most is the issue of class identity. This topic has been raised too often lately. It seems that by identity people mean the presence of a unique spammable ability or a large number of healing abilities (Warden) and stamina morphs (Necromancer). But the absence of certain types of skills is also part of the identity. Moreover, in my opinion, this is where the identity manifests itself much more than in the same skills with different skins (i.e. burst single target heal, delayed burst damage). I am very afraid that attempts to solve this non-existent problem will only aggravate the situation.

Major class changes should be made to the game with extreme caution only when it is truly necessary. Only two things in the game, players can not change - fraction and class. Therefore, there can be nothing worse than serious gameplay changes to classes that players are used to for many years.

P.S. Stamina Sorcerer

SFDB

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Surge feels a little underwhelming and difficult to trigger unless you’re using a healing staff. Are there any changes planned to improve the skill?
This morph is intended to be focused on healers, but we are aware of the desirability of Sorcery to other playstyles and are looking to address that in the future.

That's a pretty vague answer considering how thoroughly it s*** the bed. The fact it was changed in the eleventh hour without consideration of the consequences does not make the nebulous comment feel like it's going to actually address the concerns that have been repeatedly raised about this decision. Nor does this in any way counter the assertion that this was an ill-considered, poorly thought out bit of engineering executed without consideration for players in the midst of already undergoing multiple major nerfs, and no reason why it was so vital to shove through despite feedback expressing concern about its impact. This answer, if anything, suggests that you somehow WEREN'T aware beforehand the consequences of your actions, which makes it hard to trust that it will be adequately examined any time soon.

WreckfulAbandon

Looking forward to the last of these "audits" so we can maybe go a few months without the game being turned upside down and shaken like a schoolboy getting his lunch money stolen.

VaranisArano

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Looking forward to the last of these "audits" so we can maybe go a few months without the game being turned upside down and shaken like a schoolboy getting his lunch money stolen.

Not likely. That's been happening in greater or lesser amounts since One Tamriel exchanged vertical for horizontal progression.

Auldjohn

In official ZOS posts and replies please briefly explain the cryptic acronyms and rare abbreviations.

I've played ESO since early Closed Beta in 2013 as well as other games even longer. However, the plethora of verbal shortcuts are exclusivist and user/reader unfriendly.

WrathOfInnos

Auldjohn wrote: »

In official ZOS posts and replies please briefly explain the cryptic acronyms and rare abbreviations.

I've played ESO since early Closed Beta in 2013 as well as other games even longer. However, the plethora of verbal shortcuts are exclusivist and user/reader unfriendly.

I’m lost, what do you mean by “ZOS” and “ESO”?

MisterBigglesworth

ZOS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ultimate abilities are some of the most powerful abilities in the game. We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much.

ALSO ZOS:

Meteor: This ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2753724/#Comment_2753724

VaranisArano

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Auldjohn wrote: »

In official ZOS posts and replies please briefly explain the cryptic acronyms and rare abbreviations.

I've played ESO since early Closed Beta in 2013 as well as other games even longer. However, the plethora of verbal shortcuts are exclusivist and user/reader unfriendly.

I’m lost, what do you mean by “ZOS” and “ESO”?

Probably more things like AoE, HoT, CC, and vHoF HM.

WrathOfInnos

VaranisArano wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Auldjohn wrote: »

In official ZOS posts and replies please briefly explain the cryptic acronyms and rare abbreviations.

I've played ESO since early Closed Beta in 2013 as well as other games even longer. However, the plethora of verbal shortcuts are exclusivist and user/reader unfriendly.

I’m lost, what do you mean by “ZOS” and “ESO”?

Probably more things like AoE, HoT, CC, and vHoF HM.

Area of effect, heal over time, crowd control, veteran Halls of Fabrication hard mode.

VaranisArano

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Auldjohn wrote: »

In official ZOS posts and replies please briefly explain the cryptic acronyms and rare abbreviations.

I've played ESO since early Closed Beta in 2013 as well as other games even longer. However, the plethora of verbal shortcuts are exclusivist and user/reader unfriendly.

I’m lost, what do you mean by “ZOS” and “ESO”?

Probably more things like AoE, HoT, CC, and vHoF HM.

Area of effect, heal over time, crowd control, veteran Halls of Fabrication hard mode.

Yes, I'm well aware. Thanks.

My point was that those are rather less obvious than your mocking choice of "ZOS" and "ESO".

Personally, I had to learn what AoE and DoT meant when I came to ESO because prior to that, I'd really only played Skyrim. I didnt have experience with games where those terms are commonplace. And just recently, I got to teach someone what the "+3" in vCR+3 meant. Its good to remember that not all players automatically know what we do, right?

I'm not certain I agree with the first poster that ZOS needs to avoid acronyms and abbreviations that are commonly used on the forums. On the other hand, I've seen enough players confused by some basic MMO terms, and even been that player myself, to understand why it's good to be as clear as possible.

The clearest method is probably to use the way I learned in school. Use the phrase, followed by the acronym if it reappears, i.e. damage over time (DoT).

Edited: I get that it was a joke about the poster asking for acronyms to be defined, and then using acronyms themself, but I felt it really elided the whole point, which is worth considering at the least.

WrathOfInnos

VaranisArano wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Auldjohn wrote: »

In official ZOS posts and replies please briefly explain the cryptic acronyms and rare abbreviations.

I've played ESO since early Closed Beta in 2013 as well as other games even longer. However, the plethora of verbal shortcuts are exclusivist and user/reader unfriendly.

I’m lost, what do you mean by “ZOS” and “ESO”?

Probably more things like AoE, HoT, CC, and vHoF HM.

Area of effect, heal over time, crowd control, veteran Halls of Fabrication hard mode.

Yes, I'm well aware. Thanks.

My point was that those are rather less obvious than your mocking choice of "ZOS" and "ESO".

Personally, I had to learn what AoE and DoT meant when I came to ESO because prior to that, I'd really only played Skyrim. I didnt have experience with games where those terms are commonplace. And just recently, I got to teach someone what the "+3" in vCR+3 meant. Its good to remember that not all players automatically know what we do, right?

I'm not certain I agree with the first poster that ZOS needs to avoid acronyms and abbreviations that are commonly used on the forums. On the other hand, I've seen enough players confused by some basic MMO terms, and even been that player myself, to understand why it's good to be as clear as possible.

The clearest method is probably to use the way I learned in school. Use the phrase, followed by the acronym if it reappears, i.e. damage over time (DoT).

Edited: I get that it was a joke about the poster asking for acronyms to be defined, and then using acronyms themself, but I felt it really elided the whole point, which is worth considering at the least.

Haha, did not mean I was defining them for you @VaranisArano , I'm sure you are aware of those acronyms. Just thought I'd put them out there since you'd provided a list of those from the initial post, in case anyone was still wondering. I was definitely amused by the use of undefined acronyms (sure they were obvious ones) in a post complaining about undefined acronyms. Also it seems worth pointing out that most of them were contained in the questions asked by players, and were not brought up by ZOS.

VaranisArano

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Auldjohn wrote: »

In official ZOS posts and replies please briefly explain the cryptic acronyms and rare abbreviations.

I've played ESO since early Closed Beta in 2013 as well as other games even longer. However, the plethora of verbal shortcuts are exclusivist and user/reader unfriendly.

I’m lost, what do you mean by “ZOS” and “ESO”?

Probably more things like AoE, HoT, CC, and vHoF HM.

Area of effect, heal over time, crowd control, veteran Halls of Fabrication hard mode.

Yes, I'm well aware. Thanks.

My point was that those are rather less obvious than your mocking choice of "ZOS" and "ESO".

Personally, I had to learn what AoE and DoT meant when I came to ESO because prior to that, I'd really only played Skyrim. I didnt have experience with games where those terms are commonplace. And just recently, I got to teach someone what the "+3" in vCR+3 meant. Its good to remember that not all players automatically know what we do, right?

I'm not certain I agree with the first poster that ZOS needs to avoid acronyms and abbreviations that are commonly used on the forums. On the other hand, I've seen enough players confused by some basic MMO terms, and even been that player myself, to understand why it's good to be as clear as possible.

The clearest method is probably to use the way I learned in school. Use the phrase, followed by the acronym if it reappears, i.e. damage over time (DoT).

Edited: I get that it was a joke about the poster asking for acronyms to be defined, and then using acronyms themself, but I felt it really elided the whole point, which is worth considering at the least.

Haha, did not mean I was defining them for you @VaranisArano , I'm sure you are aware of those acronyms. Just thought I'd put them out there since you'd provided a list of those from the initial post, in case anyone was still wondering. I was definitely amused by the use of undefined acronyms (sure they were obvious ones) in a post complaining about undefined acronyms. Also it seems worth pointing out that most of them were contained in the questions asked by players, and were not brought up by ZOS.

In that case, thanks,for,throwing in the definitions!

Yeah, I did notice that we players are pretty acronym happy.

I love this post: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/62513/glossary-elder-scrolls-online-acronyms

eso_lytw8

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

Class balance next. Hmm... can I get a proper stun for my Magden, given you sent Shock clench to oblivion?

I did not see anything about class balance next, they already did the class balance audit with Elsweyr. It sounds like they will be adding identity back a few classes at a time. This is hopefully entirely different than what they have been doing. I think its actually the opposite of balance which is what we need right now. This every body has to be equally good at everything is killing the difference in the classes.

keto3000

Ladislao wrote: »

Game balancing is a process, not an end goal. So constant changes and meta shifts are normal for MMO. People either adapt or leave, and this is also normal.

But what concerns me most is the issue of class identity. This topic has been raised too often lately. It seems that by identity people mean the presence of a unique spammable ability or a large number of healing abilities (Warden) and stamina morphs (Necromancer). But the absence of certain types of skills is also part of the identity. Moreover, in my opinion, this is where the identity manifests itself much more than in the same skills with different skins (i.e. burst single target heal, delayed burst damage). I am very afraid that attempts to solve this non-existent problem will only aggravate the situation.

Major class changes should be made to the game with extreme caution only when it is truly necessary. Only two things in the game, players can not change - fraction and class. Therefore, there can be nothing worse than serious gameplay changes to classes that players are used to for many years.

P.S. Stamina Sorcerer

*******************************************

I'm reposting a previous comment I made on the original Q & A thread since I feel the historical perspective on Class Identity is timely to this present discussion:

Update 23 revisits those same philosophical discussions/debate re the need for archetypes & class skills in early/mid 2014 when the game still had Vet ranks (pre CP system).

Class/archetype skill-based VS. "No class" character defined solely by the player's choice of Weapon, Armor, Guild & World skills allowing players to build any character & define it by chosen skill lines and further refinement through a constellation based class refinement (I.e. a CP tree for "sorcerer"mage" specialization, etc)
(There was also mention of this by Nick Konckle in the first Reddit AMA as well.)

FYI----Throwback threads:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/115543/why-eso-should-not-have-classes-and-how-classes-ruin-the-game

https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/class-system-is-a-good-thing/?page=5#comment-195487

Emma_Overload

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

ZOS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ultimate abilities are some of the most powerful abilities in the game. We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much.

ALSO ZOS:

Meteor: This ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2753724/#Comment_2753724

Can Incap be reflected? Dawnbreaker? Can I reflect a Leaping DK right back to where he came from?

There is no double standard here, if that is what you were trying to say. Not to mention that Meteor has a 3 second travel time that is an eternity compared to the so-called cast times on Dawnbreaker or whatever.

MisterBigglesworth

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

ZOS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ultimate abilities are some of the most powerful abilities in the game. We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much.

ALSO ZOS:

Meteor: This ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2753724/#Comment_2753724

Can Incap be reflected? Dawnbreaker? Can I reflect a Leaping DK right back to where he came from?

There is no double standard here, if that is what you were trying to say. Not to mention that Meteor has a 3 second travel time that is an eternity compared to the so-called cast times on Dawnbreaker or whatever.

So your argument that it's not a double standard is that the entire concept of "a counter" is a reflect only? So in other words if Incap can be dodged or Dawnbreaker can fail to hit its target due to bad positioning, no these are not real counters, only a reflect counts. Yes lets have a completely narrow definition of what constitutes "counterplay" so you can claim ZOS is not contradicting themselves.

WeylandLabs

Now we're cooking with 🔥

Everyone gets a "agree" click ! 👍

I'm throwing a fork in Zeni's garbage disposal - Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding ! 😂