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Streak fatigue but no Cloak fatigue?
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
The only NBS I come across that are unkillable are people why are just flat out better players than I am.
Same goes for sorc
For warden
For dk
For Templar
For necro
Ok completely missed my point there, but true.
Magblade can permacloak, if allowed you would never ever see them. Almost non-existant besides bombers and tanks. Surely if cloak was that strong everybody would be running magblade.
Yup until they attack you. The sound cue is particularly clear, so why don't you just dodge roll when your hear it? You can even do it backwards while applying a stun to the guy.
Dealing with cloak is a L2P issue, in the same way it was with DKs and old wings or temps and major mending, but people don't want to learn to play the game.
edit: well, now I see where are you coming and I agreeEdited by Xvorg on August 6, 2019 8:35PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
The only NBS I come across that are unkillable are people why are just flat out better players than I am.
Same goes for sorc
For warden
For dk
For Templar
For necro
Ok completely missed my point there, but true.
Magblade can permacloak, if allowed you would never ever see them. Almost non-existant besides bombers and tanks. Surely if cloak was that strong everybody would be running magblade.
Yup until they attack you. The sound cue is particularly clear, so why don't you just dodge roll when your hear it? You can even do it backwards while applying a stun to the guy.
Dealing with cloak is a L2P issue, in the same way it was with DKs and old wings or temps and major mending, but people don't want to learn to play the game.
edit: well, now I see where are you coming and I agree
Lol I didn't pick up his point either. He's is the Yoda of sarcasm0 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
The only NBS I come across that are unkillable are people why are just flat out better players than I am.
Same goes for sorc
For warden
For dk
For Templar
For necro
Ok completely missed my point there, but true.
Magblade can permacloak, if allowed you would never ever see them. Almost non-existant besides bombers and tanks. Surely if cloak was that strong everybody would be running magblade.
Yup until they attack you. The sound cue is particularly clear, so why don't you just dodge roll when your hear it? You can even do it backwards while applying a stun to the guy.
Dealing with cloak is a L2P issue, in the same way it was with DKs and old wings or temps and major mending, but people don't want to learn to play the game.
edit: well, now I see where are you coming and I agree
Lol I didn't pick up his point either. He's is the Yoda of sarcasm
Sorry that's my Britishness.0 -
Undefwun✭✭✭✭✭Magblade can permacloak, if allowed you would never ever see them. Almost non-existant besides bombers and tanks. Surely if cloak was that strong everybody would be running magblade.
Ppl as per usual looking at things in a vacuum.
Once cloak removed everyone always brags how easy they are to kill.
Well that shuts down their own point, really.Drank Sinatra Sr - PvP Magblade - DC
Juggathot - PvP Mag Sorc - DC
Jedi Mind Crits - PvP A-Hole Bowblade - DC
Dollar Store Thor - PvP Stamplar - DC
The Bone Sumpremacy - baby Stamcro - DC
Wârden Freeman - PvP Stamden - DC (on hold)
Lauryn Heal - PvE Magplar DPS - DC
Lil Orc Chop - PvP Stam Sorc - EP
Hamuel L Jackson - PvE DPS & PvP Stam DK - EP
Chandler Bling - PvP Magden - EP
Mahalia Lightborn - exiled crafting toon - cos you know, she's AD1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
True, I learnt to kill NBs by playing NBs and understading the mechanics around the class. Same about DKsSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
True, I learnt to kill NBs by playing NBs and understading the mechanics around the class. Same about DKs
Yep, I have one of each.0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.4 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.
If you learn to play a NB and you learn to cloak after port, then you learn how to put a AoE DoT under the shade
If yu learn to play mDK, and you time your wings, then you learnt how to dodge roll/cloak after firing projectiles towards the DK, forcing him to burn his magickaSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.
If you learn to play a NB and you learn to cloak after port, then you learn how to put a AoE DoT under the shade
If yu learn to play mDK, and you time your wings, then you learnt how to dodge roll/cloak after firing projectiles towards the DK, forcing him to burn his magicka
Hahahahahah Yeah in a duel maybe. Go chasing after a NB's shade in BGs and get separated and blown up by another team. That's if you even know where it's at to begin with.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why is there a ramping increase cost "fatigue" mechanic on streak but not on cloak? At least you can still use ranged abilities on sorcs when they streak away, however, when a NB cloaks they are completely un-targetable. Does not make sense to me, people complain about how powerful cloak is all the time, and forces people to use expensive reveal potions in PvP. Why no add fatigue to cloak as it exists on roll dodge and streak currently.
Because cloak cannot be compared to streak.
You can use an AoE skill to stop cloak
you can use a revealing skill/set to stop cloak
you can even drink a pot to stop cloak.
Where's the pot I have to use to stop a streaking sorc?
Anyway, I also consider that the streak penalty is a stupid and lazy solution in the same way it's stupid and lazy on dodge roll. Those mechanics should be countered, not punished
Exactly.
I will also add, when I have the need to streak away I laugh when people try to follow. I cannot recall the last time someone caught me.
However, I often reveal NBs out of cloak and catch them.2 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.
If you learn to play a NB and you learn to cloak after port, then you learn how to put a AoE DoT under the shade
If yu learn to play mDK, and you time your wings, then you learnt how to dodge roll/cloak after firing projectiles towards the DK, forcing him to burn his magicka
Also I was talking generally about old dk wings. You again prove my point that if a skill takes a very specific counter that is worthless against most everything else it needs re-tuned. And quit playin, old dk wings let you eat magblades and snipeblades for breakfast. Just cause you didn't get hit by the reflect doesn't mean you accomplished anything. Especially if it was your bow proc.2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.
If you learn to play a NB and you learn to cloak after port, then you learn how to put a AoE DoT under the shade
If yu learn to play mDK, and you time your wings, then you learnt how to dodge roll/cloak after firing projectiles towards the DK, forcing him to burn his magicka
Rubbish. What AoE? Wall of Elements? Ain't slotting that. And dodgeroll after every projectile? Goodbye stamina!1 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭Why is there a ramping increase cost "fatigue" mechanic on streak but not on cloak? At least you can still use ranged abilities on sorcs when they streak away, however, when a NB cloaks they are completely un-targetable. Does not make sense to me, people complain about how powerful cloak is all the time, and forces people to use expensive reveal potions in PvP. Why no add fatigue to cloak as it exists on roll dodge and streak currently.
Because cloak cannot be compared to streak.
You can use an AoE skill to stop cloak
you can use a revealing skill/set to stop cloak
you can even drink a pot to stop cloak.
Where's the pot I have to use to stop a streaking sorc?
Anyway, I also consider that the streak penalty is a stupid and lazy solution in the same way it's stupid and lazy on dodge roll. Those mechanics should be countered, not punished
Exactly.
I will also add, when I have the need to streak away I laugh when people try to follow. I cannot recall the last time someone caught me.
However, I often reveal NBs out of cloak and catch them.
I like you.0 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Streak is nothing like Dodge. CLOAK is like dodge. When you dodge or cloak, it makes an unlimited number of attacks miss you. When you streak, everything still hits. This is a totally absurd analogy.4 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Don't nerf you.
Don't nerf me.
Nerf that cloaker behind that tree*.
*Because people refuse to slot workable counters and use them correctly.
All the counters have been heavily nerfed over the years. Magelight used to be a toggle. Now it's just a 2 second decloak. Revealing flare always sucked, it's still getting nerfed in Scalebreaker. Revealing Mark, nerfed. Detect pots. Used to be full uptime if you chugged them back to back. Now you only get a 12 second window to hope you can burst down a nightblade or the fight resets. I guess there are some poisons that reveal, but the uptime is low and application is very RNG, and also lol at poisons in 2019.4 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
5 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
2 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
The thread isn't about stealth. It's about a specific NB skill and morph called shadowy disguise bud. And none of those things you said work against it.6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
The thread isn't about stealth. It's about a specific NB skill and morph called shadowy disguise bud. And none of those things you said work against it.
The thread isn't really about the skill called cloak. It is about wanting a skill nerfed because one chooses to not use the hard counters designed to be used against the skill Essentially, bring the game down to ones level. We now this because of the lame excuse the OP provides that falsely makes it appear there is potions to reveal a cloaked NB.
Ironically, those of us that have learned to use the counters find them very effective and scratch our wondering how some people find this to be so challenging. It is fun hunting and killing NBs that try to cloak away. PvP is supposed to be about challenge and unpredictability. PvE is for the predictable combat.Edited by idk on August 9, 2019 5:45AM3 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
The thread isn't about stealth. It's about a specific NB skill and morph called shadowy disguise bud. And none of those things you said work against it.
The thread isn't really about the skill called cloak. It is about wanting a skill nerfed because one chooses to not use the hard counters designed to be used against the skill Essentially, bring the game down to ones level. We now this because of the lame excuse the OP provides that falsely makes it appear there is potions to reveal a cloaked NB.
Ironically, those of us that have learned to use the counters find them very effective and scratch our wondering how some people find this to be so challenging. It is fun hunting and killing NBs that try to cloak away. PvP is supposed to be about challenge and unpredictability. PvE is for the predictable combat.
Not sure I agree with this. There are lots of bad NB out there so of course there are lots of cannon fodder potatoes that give the illusion that cloak is easy to counter. But outside of detect pots a good NB won't be stopped from cloaking. Just cause you run down some nb zerglings that panic and run in predictable directions doesn't mean much. I can probably find a 1vX post from a nb on these very forums within the first page or two showing them using cloak to eliminate whole raids almost and could point to that using your logic to show its op.
Cloak does need retuned. It's either op in that, sure they won't kill you with it if your decent but a good nb that knows how to use shade and other tools can always reset the fight. Or it is completely worthless cause of detect pots and all the aoe being thrown out around an objective. Honestly detect pots should go. Easy hard counters shouldn't exist. Same reason old dk wings went. Cause I'm sick of hearing about a potion nulliffying cloak and how there isnt a potion that does that for streak. And aoe dots shouldn't break it either. Only direct damage aoe with maybe jabs and overload heavy attack being exceptions. But then a fatigue mechanic implemented to where the NB is punished when caught by those soft counters but is still usable when the ground dots get stacked on objectives.
Fyi cloak got an indirect buff relative to streak if the predicted single target dot meta comes to fruition. Streak won't let you escape dots, cloak will, or at least suppress their damage for as long as it is up so being able to perma stack it with no penalty starts to look like a major advantage. More people hopping on that train may have to drop aoe for the new powerful single target dots. AOE dots were nerfed as well so even more incentive to not have them on your bars in pvp.2 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
The thread isn't about stealth. It's about a specific NB skill and morph called shadowy disguise bud. And none of those things you said work against it.
i use those methods every day and they do work.
now Granted, ill give you that if they sit there and just spam cloak and they dont move, then yes he will remain hidden, but thats not what i was asked.
i was asked :Quote: "Tell me how to easily prevent cloak without wasting a potion or skill slot"
and i answered that question with several different methods, now if those methods did not work for you or others then i cannot control that, but they work for me and i clearly laid out how they are used.
and again ill Grant you that they don't always work with consistency because the skill level of the person stealth varies Greatly from person to person, and often times they are only trying to stealth and cloak simply to escape my killing them and they leave and their gone leaving me to protect themselves, but i consider that a win.
it doesn't always happen ofcourse but i atleast tried to answer that persons question with the best i had and i gave my best shot at answering the question, and yes those methods DO work.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
The thread isn't about stealth. It's about a specific NB skill and morph called shadowy disguise bud. And none of those things you said work against it.
The thread isn't really about the skill called cloak. It is about wanting a skill nerfed because one chooses to not use the hard counters designed to be used against the skill Essentially, bring the game down to ones level. We now this because of the lame excuse the OP provides that falsely makes it appear there is potions to reveal a cloaked NB.
Ironically, those of us that have learned to use the counters find them very effective and scratch our wondering how some people find this to be so challenging. It is fun hunting and killing NBs that try to cloak away. PvP is supposed to be about challenge and unpredictability. PvE is for the predictable combat.
Not sure I agree with this. There are lots of bad NB out there so of course there are lots of cannon fodder potatoes that give the illusion that cloak is easy to counter. But outside of detect pots a good NB won't be stopped from cloaking. Just cause you run down some nb zerglings that panic and run in predictable directions doesn't mean much. I can probably find a 1vX post from a nb on these very forums within the first page or two showing them using cloak to eliminate whole raids almost and could point to that using your logic to show its op.
Cloak does need retuned. It's either op in that, sure they won't kill you with it if your decent but a good nb that knows how to use shade and other tools can always reset the fight. Or it is completely worthless cause of detect pots and all the aoe being thrown out around an objective. Honestly detect pots should go. Easy hard counters shouldn't exist. Same reason old dk wings went. Cause I'm sick of hearing about a potion nulliffying cloak and how there isnt a potion that does that for streak. And aoe dots shouldn't break it either. Only direct damage aoe with maybe jabs and overload heavy attack being exceptions. But then a fatigue mechanic implemented to where the NB is punished when caught by those soft counters but is still usable when the ground dots get stacked on objectives.
Fyi cloak got an indirect buff relative to streak if the predicted single target dot meta comes to fruition. Streak won't let you escape dots, cloak will, or at least suppress their damage for as long as it is up so being able to perma stack it with no penalty starts to look like a major advantage. More people hopping on that train may have to drop aoe for the new powerful single target dots. AOE dots were nerfed as well so even more incentive to not have them on your bars in pvp.
Obviously I come across some skilled players that get away from me and even kill me. To suggest otherwise would be absurd. But to suggest that a skill should be nerfed because a skilled player got the better of me using that skill seems even more absurd. BTW, that skilled NB also used more than just cloak which is a major point where your argument fails.
I am not even touching the preposterous connection you are trying to make by stating cloak got buffed relatively to steak because I laugh at people who try to catch me when I use streak. Yes, your reply will be less experienced zergilngs are the ones who cannot catch me when I use streak but that would just prove my point.0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
The thread isn't about stealth. It's about a specific NB skill and morph called shadowy disguise bud. And none of those things you said work against it.
i use those methods every day and they do work.
now Granted, ill give you that if they sit there and just spam cloak and they dont move, then yes he will remain hidden, but thats not what i was asked.
i was asked :Quote: "Tell me how to easily prevent cloak without wasting a potion or skill slot"
and i answered that question with several different methods, now if those methods did not work for you or others then i cannot control that, but they work for me and i clearly laid out how they are used.
and again ill Grant you that they don't always work with consistency because the skill level of the person stealth varies Greatly from person to person, and often times they are only trying to stealth and cloak simply to escape my killing them and they leave and their gone leaving me to protect themselves, but i consider that a win.
it doesn't always happen ofcourse but i atleast tried to answer that persons question with the best i had and i gave my best shot at answering the question, and yes those methods DO work.
You are hopeless. Only thing that breaks shadowy disguise is aoe damage, detect pots, and reveal skills like magelight, como hunter, flare, nb mark, etc. Cloak isn't permanent fyi. My bet is that it's wearing off and you are erroneously correlating it to those actions. At least this seems to be the case with your comment about spamming it working as it seems you don't actually understand the skill.Edited by NuarBlack on August 9, 2019 6:37AM4 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
This end of discussion, but both a cost increase would be good for me to
Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only0 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Very much the opposite.- Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation
- Streak is the escape/fight reset. Cloak is the escape/fight reset.
You make a good case that shields should have increased costs when stacked and use in a row, same like roll dodge is doing now, I think this is a good thing, shield costs increase if used stacked good idea mate Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only0 - Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation
-
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Holy smokes, this is wrong. Standing near someone doesn't break cloak, only crouch.
Can't mount cause you're stuck in combat.also:
cast hurricane and get on your mount and ride around, they cant escape and are seen and pulled out of stealth immediately.
The area is too small to be effective for most of them, if you even know where to use them. Of course you can always just move 5m and cloak again.also:
cast area of effect abilities all around, it pulls us out of stealth
Are you serious? This absolute DOES NOT work.also:
cast light attack all around constantly it pulls our out of stealth.
This is also 100% wrong, you can cloak through guards all day. They only see through crouch.the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....
cloak and stealth cannot be maintained.
also try standing next to any guards, we cant maintain cloak near guards ...
none of the things you said are correct. i outlined several methods that do work.
im sory but those ways of bringing people out of stealth work and they work a little too good.
everything breaks stealth, everything.
The thread isn't about stealth. It's about a specific NB skill and morph called shadowy disguise bud. And none of those things you said work against it.
The thread isn't really about the skill called cloak. It is about wanting a skill nerfed because one chooses to not use the hard counters designed to be used against the skill Essentially, bring the game down to ones level. We now this because of the lame excuse the OP provides that falsely makes it appear there is potions to reveal a cloaked NB.
Ironically, those of us that have learned to use the counters find them very effective and scratch our wondering how some people find this to be so challenging. It is fun hunting and killing NBs that try to cloak away. PvP is supposed to be about challenge and unpredictability. PvE is for the predictable combat.
Not sure I agree with this. There are lots of bad NB out there so of course there are lots of cannon fodder potatoes that give the illusion that cloak is easy to counter. But outside of detect pots a good NB won't be stopped from cloaking. Just cause you run down some nb zerglings that panic and run in predictable directions doesn't mean much. I can probably find a 1vX post from a nb on these very forums within the first page or two showing them using cloak to eliminate whole raids almost and could point to that using your logic to show its op.
Cloak does need retuned. It's either op in that, sure they won't kill you with it if your decent but a good nb that knows how to use shade and other tools can always reset the fight. Or it is completely worthless cause of detect pots and all the aoe being thrown out around an objective. Honestly detect pots should go. Easy hard counters shouldn't exist. Same reason old dk wings went. Cause I'm sick of hearing about a potion nulliffying cloak and how there isnt a potion that does that for streak. And aoe dots shouldn't break it either. Only direct damage aoe with maybe jabs and overload heavy attack being exceptions. But then a fatigue mechanic implemented to where the NB is punished when caught by those soft counters but is still usable when the ground dots get stacked on objectives.
Fyi cloak got an indirect buff relative to streak if the predicted single target dot meta comes to fruition. Streak won't let you escape dots, cloak will, or at least suppress their damage for as long as it is up so being able to perma stack it with no penalty starts to look like a major advantage. More people hopping on that train may have to drop aoe for the new powerful single target dots. AOE dots were nerfed as well so even more incentive to not have them on your bars in pvp.
Obviously I come across some skilled players that get away from me and even kill me. To suggest otherwise would be absurd. But to suggest that a skill should be nerfed because a skilled player got the better of me using that skill seems even more absurd. BTW, that skilled NB also used more than just cloak which is a major point where your argument fails.
I am not even touching the preposterous connection you are trying to make by stating cloak got buffed relatively to steak because I laugh at people who try to catch me when I use streak. Yes, your reply will be less experienced zergilngs are the ones who cannot catch me when I use streak but that would just prove my point.
Not sure how it proves your point bud. You need to take the skill potential and synergies into account when balancing. Snipe got nerfed into the ground cause of claok. Also my point is even incompetent NB are carried by the skill because there is no penalty to being caught by a soft counter. They can just keep spamming till they get away sometimes. Good NBs honestly would hardly be affected out side of if they wanted to keep it up constantly it would take extra resources just like sorcs do if they streak 2 or more times in a row.
And if you don't realize cloak is going to have an advantage in a dot meta especially if it remains spammable to avoid all that dot damage I can't help you. Probably see you in here crying cause some zerg all just hit you with the new entropy and soul trap and you died even even though you were able to streak away.Edited by NuarBlack on August 9, 2019 12:40PM1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Streak is nothing like Dodge. CLOAK is like dodge. When you dodge or cloak, it makes an unlimited number of attacks miss you. When you streak, everything still hits. This is a totally absurd analogy.
Streak utilizes mobility to escape.
Dodgeroll utilizes mobility to escape.
Cloak has no mobility. When cast it's a damage mitigation tool.
Shield has no mobility. When cast it's is a damage mitigation tool.1
