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Streak fatigue but no Cloak fatigue?
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Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are multiple hard counters to cloak and none for streak. That is why one had fatigue and the other does not.
The counters to cloak work very well. Yes, I do come across a skilled NB that uses more than just cloak and is able to escape me but I would expect a challenge from a skilled player.
Edit: I guess OP did not like the way their little poll on the subject started off so they created another thread on the subject. LOL
This is why. Spot on.
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HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭No point discussing this because nightblades and sorcs will never admit to each other that the other has the OP skill lol. In my opinion, cloak and streak are balanced the way they are now. Streak shouldn't be unblockable though lol3 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.
Youre overhyping cloak and battlegrounds dont matter.
Your opinion on pvp doesn't matter then as you are obviously an RP zergling if you think cyro offers any semblance of balanced competitive pvp. Cyro is the sole reason ESO is a joke in the larger pvp game community despite having the superior combat system Cyro was misguided Dark Age of Camelot nostalgia that never offered any hope of providing a balanced pvp environment. And this was obvious to any long time mmo pvper which is why so many people stayed away. Battle grounds offer the only hope of good pvp and even then they messed it up by sticking to 3 teams and not being able to balance cp. Wanting to play with cp is the only reason to bother with cyro. Nothing to do with the format.
Try again, Ive been PvPing since 99 when most of ESO players were in diapers. Im from when PvPing actually had consequences.
Back before when name changes existed and someone and their guild could be hunted.
So, terrible assumption out of the way, battlegrounds and arenas still dont matter, most of the forums never played when anything mattered.
MMR and battlegrounds are garbage in terms of balance, thats just your bias.
The only thing you and I agree on is that the DAoC nostalgia was a stupid move.
Other than that, Ill stick to my twenty years of seeing what works and doesnt work. BGs mean nothing in the end, a few of you stuck in your feelings *think* they do.
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TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok my last comment as my IQ is decreasing every time I read a anti-cloak comment.
Y'all talk about detection pots and magelight radius as if it's the only counters.
ANY AOE SKILL THATS HITS A CLOAK NIGHTBLADE PULLS THEM OUT OF CLOAK.
In cloak they can only move at normal speed, just use your mind and think he was in this position 1 second ago, how far can he walk? And then AoE that area. Spoiler, you'll get him most the time.
Youre arguing with peoples frail egos on the verge of being exposed as an invalid to themselves.
Expect nonsensical, dishonest, and inexperienced responses2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
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NuarBlack✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.
Youre overhyping cloak and battlegrounds dont matter.
Your opinion on pvp doesn't matter then as you are obviously an RP zergling if you think cyro offers any semblance of balanced competitive pvp. Cyro is the sole reason ESO is a joke in the larger pvp game community despite having the superior combat system Cyro was misguided Dark Age of Camelot nostalgia that never offered any hope of providing a balanced pvp environment. And this was obvious to any long time mmo pvper which is why so many people stayed away. Battle grounds offer the only hope of good pvp and even then they messed it up by sticking to 3 teams and not being able to balance cp. Wanting to play with cp is the only reason to bother with cyro. Nothing to do with the format.
Try again, Ive been PvPing since 99 when most of ESO players were in diapers. Im from when PvPing actually had consequences.
Back before when name changes existed and someone and their guild could be hunted.
So, terrible assumption out of the way, battlegrounds and arenas still dont matter, most of the forums never played when anything mattered.
MMR and battlegrounds are garbage in terms of balance, thats just your bias.
The only thing you and I agree on is that the DAoC nostalgia was a stupid move.
Other than that, Ill stick to my twenty years of seeing what works and doesnt work. BGs mean nothing in the end, a few of you stuck in your feelings *think* they do.
Accuse me of an assumption then go and make one yourself. I've pvp'd since it was called pking and you got to take the other person's stuff. So probably about same time and experience bud. And I haven't seen large scale ever work or be worth balancing around. And sure I know people like to euphemistically call cyro open world but it isn't that either. And that's still rose tinted nostalgia too. As open world might have been decent in vanilla wow and rift but it was still not based around any semblance of balanced competitive play. Most the time it wasn't even close to fair as it was all about ganking and getting the jump on someone or surprising them with an exploitive build. Especially so in the games before wow as balance wasn't even an afterthought back then. The rush of risk from pking in some of the OG mmo's might be interesting to implement but ESO and cyro have none of that as of now so that is definitely irrelevant. The irony is that you imply name changes make for toxic game environments but bring up even more rose tinted nostalgia about old pvp that I saw ruin irl relationships and only seemed less toxic cause we were all still on dial up with no voice chat or even near the text chat quality of life features that would make griefing even easier today. Hell I was one of those griefing little welps back then even sometimes, following someone around trolling them without my gear on till they flag themselves for pvp or lead us both to a pvp zone they thought they could then get rid of me, only for me to quickly equip gear and gank them. Nah 12 year olds and other trolls have always been trolls. There is a reason a lot of those types of games went away because it provided too much opportunity for griefing.
Small scale BGS and arena formats have always held the best environment in which to evaluate balance. MMR is another matter, a red herring to ability and class balance. So I'm not sure what you mean by works as you can't name one game that had good balanced large scale combat other than shooters especially if you judge them objectively without nostalgia goggles.
Also Cyro has never mattered. It's always been a side show. All Pvp for that matter as eso's broader appeal has always been skyrim with friends. But I do remember it being all but declared dead on arrival as far as pvp cause all it had at launch was the large scale AvA. How it made it through blows my mind with all the evidence of failure from Blizzard and Trion's attempts at it. There is a reason ESO is a non factor in the e-sports and streaming world and the answer is cyro. It's always been hot garbage outside your first initial braveheart RP moments. As saying a skill is over performing when used by zergs or full raid groups tells you nothing about the balance of a skill. Small scale relatively balanced teams will always be the best environment in which to asses ability balance and my 20+ years of experience won't let you convince me otherwise. (It should go without saying that I don't claim to be the one best able to asses that balance but I do know large scale has always been trash that distorts perceptions of the meta.)Edited by NuarBlack on August 16, 2019 9:28PM0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Cloak is OP in the hands of someone who understands how to trick your eye.
If most of you who cry about cloak on these forums actually played a nightblade, you'd see cloak and streak arent comparable.
I do not get ganked by a nightblade, because I used to exclusively gank.
Play the classes then complain.
Sorcs gettin everyone nerfed when mag sorc always been top pick for a pvp class. Even with the nerf bat is wrapped in pillows for you.
Nah if you actually learn how to play NB right you learn how powerful it is. You learn to port to shade then cloak. You learn to CC then cloak. You learn other techniques to create space to cloak so aoe don't catch you. Outside of detect pots nothing will stop a good NB from cloaking.
The reason cloaking NB are not in high mmr has little to do with cloak being bad or not good and more to do with the cloaking playstyle not being conducive to team play and the need to hold objectives and the like.
Cloak needs a rework. And honestly hard counters shouldn't exist like detect pots and the reveal skills for the same reason dk wings was changed as it creates polarized gameplay. Good soft counters that reward skillful use and actually punish the NB that gets caught by them. Just saying to slot a detect pot was the same as saying you just need to heavy attack with a lighting staff or run force shock to counter the old dk wings. While sound advice at the time it was BS balance wise.
Youre overhyping cloak and battlegrounds dont matter.
Your opinion on pvp doesn't matter then as you are obviously an RP zergling if you think cyro offers any semblance of balanced competitive pvp. Cyro is the sole reason ESO is a joke in the larger pvp game community despite having the superior combat system Cyro was misguided Dark Age of Camelot nostalgia that never offered any hope of providing a balanced pvp environment. And this was obvious to any long time mmo pvper which is why so many people stayed away. Battle grounds offer the only hope of good pvp and even then they messed it up by sticking to 3 teams and not being able to balance cp. Wanting to play with cp is the only reason to bother with cyro. Nothing to do with the format.
Try again, Ive been PvPing since 99 when most of ESO players were in diapers. Im from when PvPing actually had consequences.
Back before when name changes existed and someone and their guild could be hunted.
So, terrible assumption out of the way, battlegrounds and arenas still dont matter, most of the forums never played when anything mattered.
MMR and battlegrounds are garbage in terms of balance, thats just your bias.
The only thing you and I agree on is that the DAoC nostalgia was a stupid move.
Other than that, Ill stick to my twenty years of seeing what works and doesnt work. BGs mean nothing in the end, a few of you stuck in your feelings *think* they do.
Accuse me of an assumption then go and make one yourself. I've pvp'd since it was called pking and you got to take the other person's stuff. So probably about same time and experience bud. And I haven't seen large scale ever work or be worth balancing around. And sure I know people like to euphemistically call cyro open world but it isn't that either. And that's still rose tinted nostalgia too. As open world might have been decent in vanilla wow and rift but it was still not based around any semblance of balanced competitive play. Most the time it wasn't even close to fair as it was all about ganking and getting the jump on someone or surprising them with an exploitive build. Especially so in the games before wow as balance wasn't even an afterthought back then. The rush of risk from pking in some of the OG mmo's might be interesting to implement but ESO and cyro have none of that as of now so that is definitely irrelevant. The irony is that you imply name changes make for toxic game environments but bring up even more rose tinted nostalgia about old pvp that I saw ruin irl relationships and only seemed less toxic cause we were all still on dial up with no voice chat or even near the text chat quality of life features that would make griefing even easier today. Hell I was one of those griefing little welps back then even sometimes, following someone around trolling them without my gear on till they flag themselves for pvp or lead us both to a pvp zone they thought they could then get rid of me, only for me to quickly equip gear and gank them. Nah 12 year olds and other trolls have always been trolls. There is a reason a lot of those types of games went away because it provided too much opportunity for griefing.
Small scale BGS and arena formats have always held the best environment in which to evaluate balance. MMR is another matter, a red herring to ability and class balance. So I'm not sure what you mean by works as you can't name one game that had good balanced large scale combat other than shooters especially if you judge them objectively without nostalgia goggles.
Also Cyro has never mattered. It's always been a side show. All Pvp for that matter as eso's broader appeal has always been skyrim with friends. But I do remember it being all but declared dead on arrival as far as pvp cause all it had at launch was the large scale AvA. How it made it through blows my mind with all the evidence of failure from Blizzard and Trion's attempts at it. There is a reason ESO is a non factor in the e-sports and streaming world and the answer is cyro. It's always been hot garbage outside your first initial braveheart RP moments. As saying a skill is over performing when used by zergs or full raid groups tells you nothing about the balance of a skill. Small scale relatively balanced teams will always be the best environment in which to asses ability balance and my 20+ years of experience won't let you convince me otherwise. (It should go without saying that I don't claim to be the one best able to asses that balance but I do know large scale has always been trash that distorts perceptions of the meta.)
I never said Cyro mattered. Darktide mattered. Shadowbane mattered. Darkfall mattered.
Balancing needs to be one to one, thats it.
I go to Cyro to crush as many people as I can, not to bother with the stupid map.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!1 -
GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭No point discussing this because nightblades and sorcs will never admit to each other that the other has the OP skill lol. In my opinion, cloak and streak are balanced the way they are now. Streak shouldn't be unblockable though lol
Yeah what makes fossilize and fears unblockability ok is the really tiny rangeEdited by GhostofDatthaw on August 17, 2019 1:23AM1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
I'm all for cloak fatigue or cost increase or whatever to limit abuse of skill. If people say magsorc does abuse streak, they build for high sustain and mag pool, stam sorc can't. Same for nightblades, most likely it will be the magblade sustaining the claok even with fatigue or whatever,but it does limit stamblade which is the most part of the problem. Both specs of nightblades do not need to build for survivability or sustain because cloak let them disangage whenever they are low on resources and reset.
That being said, I have to say that magicka warden and magucka nercomancer are the only classes not having a gap closer, though they do have range attacks which is another counter to streak.1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
No one said steel tornado prevent cloak ?i said they work on cloak read better.
You literally said "Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else."
Give me the anti shield or streak potion is just 15 sec anyway
Slotting a gap closer is not needed i play without and do more than fine,maybe you don't know how to play without it(if you play something beside magsorc)
And by your logic of gap closer be infinite counter to streak then any skill that break cloak is a infinite counter aswell.
Complaining about what?youre the one who started cloak+shade vs streak argument and i pointed that the fact cloak need another skill to be effective as streak say a lot when with streak you just need to press it to make it effective (there is no shutdown to streak but you can make cloak worthless against everyone)
Wtf are you saying? if 3 people are on you and you move away from 2 of them streak did his job and again you can use the stun of streak to stun and move out of range of gap closers,unlike cloak that one guy can break it and youre still in front of them and cloak did nothing.
This difference that you keep ignore to make your argument valid.
Also where do you read me complaining about streak?where do you read me say nerf streak or something?
If anything you and people supporting these thread are the one complaining.Im just pointing the difference why cloak have no fatigue and streak does.
Make cloak counterable just by magelight etc and detect pot and then add a fatigue.
Harder to counter but weaker overall.
And let me give you the same advice.
If you don't have any skill that work against cloak don't complain.
And last because trying to have a discussion with a magsorc main that read their own story in other people post is useless,to counter cloak you don't need magelight e co or detect pot they are extra to help people counter it but they are NOT NEEDED.
I will say it again to remind you(something that seem to be hard to grasp)that every class got something that work against cloak be it class skill jab/hurricane/curse/spiked armor or weapon skill like steel tornado,elemental blockade and those skill are used all the time not for cloak but for everything.
Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on August 17, 2019 1:56AM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
I'm all for cloak fatigue or cost increase or whatever to limit abuse of skill. If people say magsorc does abuse streak, they build for high sustain and mag pool, stam sorc can't. Same for nightblades, most likely it will be the magblade sustaining the claok even with fatigue or whatever,but it does limit stamblade which is the most part of the problem. Both specs of nightblades do not need to build for survivability or sustain because cloak let them disangage whenever they are low on resources and reset.
That being said, I have to say that magicka warden and magucka nercomancer are the only classes not having a gap closer, though they do have range attacks which is another counter to streak.
Cloak fatique would interfere with stealthy movement.
I actually have a cooldown in mind. Like the one you get when your channel gets interrupted. Which makes sense, as Cloak is somewhat similar to a channel. So, if you get knocked out of Cloak by anything, you should be prevented from casting it again for... Hm, numbers need testing. First idea would be two seconds. Not set in stone.
This should make it easier to track NBs and punish them for bad positioning. But it should also keep the "sneaking behind enemy lines" capabilities and with clever LoS use, the cooldown shouldn't obliterate NB defenses.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
No one said steel tornado prevent cloak ?i said they work on cloak read better.
You literally said "Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else."
Slotting a gap closer is not needed i play without and do more than fine,maybe you don't know how to play without it(if you play something beside magsorc)
Complaining about what?youre the one who started cloak+shade vs streak argument and i pointed that the fact cloak need another skill to be effective as streak say a lot when with streak you just need to press it to make it effective (there is no shutdown to streak but you can make cloak worthless against everyone)
Wtf are you saying? if 3 people are on you and you move away from 2 of them streak did his job and again you can use the stun of streak to stun and move out of range of gap closers,unlike cloak that one guy can break it and youre still in front of them and cloak did nothing.
This difference that you keep ignore to make your argument valid.
Also where do you read me complaining about streak?where do you read me say nerf streak or something?
If anything you and people supporting these thread are the one complaining.Im just pointing the difference why cloak have no fatigue and streak does.
Make cloak counterable just by magelight etc and detect pot and then add a fatigue.
Harder to counter but weaker overall.
And let me give you the same advice.
If you don't have any skill that work against cloak don't complain.
And last because trying to have a discussion with a magsorc main that read their own story in other people post is useless,to counter cloak you don't need magelight e co or detect pot they are extra to help people counter it but they are NOT NEEDED.
I will say it again to remind you(something that seem to be hard to grasp)that every class got something that work against cloak be it class skill jab/hurricane/curse/spiked armor or weapon skill like steel tornado,elemental blockade and those skill are used all the time not for cloak but for everything.
Only way to make streak effective is to use shields. Since you get hit with everythin before, while, and after streaking, unless you have a good dmg shields, you or some sort of high resist/HOT that can negate atleast 2k from a single dot like soul trap, you will die before you do a second streak or maybe third at max. Now magsorc will habe less time sustaining shields uo for cost increase. Saying that streak is 1 button win is wrong, as it needs other skills to work, as well as flat terrain
If you streak from high slope, you risk getting fall dmg; if you streak indoors, you hot walls, and if you streak from lower slope, sometimes you move like 5m away(not sure if bug or intended though). Let us not forget the fact the most range attacks are 28m plus 5m of being in pvp and streak only 15m.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
No one said steel tornado prevent cloak ?i said they work on cloak read better.
You literally said "Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else."
Give me the anti shield or streak potion is just 15 sec anyway
Slotting a gap closer is not needed i play without and do more than fine,maybe you don't know how to play without it(if you play something beside magsorc)
And by your logic of gap closer be infinite counter to streak then any skill that break cloak is a infinite counter aswell.
Complaining about what?youre the one who started cloak+shade vs streak argument and i pointed that the fact cloak need another skill to be effective as streak say a lot when with streak you just need to press it to make it effective (there is no shutdown to streak but you can make cloak worthless against everyone)
Wtf are you saying? if 3 people are on you and you move away from 2 of them streak did his job and again you can use the stun of streak to stun and move out of range of gap closers,unlike cloak that one guy can break it and youre still in front of them and cloak did nothing.
This difference that you keep ignore to make your argument valid.
Also where do you read me complaining about streak?where do you read me say nerf streak or something?
If anything you and people supporting these thread are the one complaining.Im just pointing the difference why cloak have no fatigue and streak does.
Make cloak counterable just by magelight etc and detect pot and then add a fatigue.
Harder to counter but weaker overall.
And let me give you the same advice.
If you don't have any skill that work against cloak don't complain.
And last because trying to have a discussion with a magsorc main that read their own story in other people post is useless,to counter cloak you don't need magelight e co or detect pot they are extra to help people counter it but they are NOT NEEDED.
I will say it again to remind you(something that seem to be hard to grasp)that every class got something that work against cloak be it class skill jab/hurricane/curse/spiked armor or weapon skill like steel tornado,elemental blockade and those skill are used all the time not for cloak but for everything.
Stop. You use no gapcloser on a melee build and then claim Streak was super powerful. You can't be helped.2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
No one said steel tornado prevent cloak ?i said they work on cloak read better.
You literally said "Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else."
Give me the anti shield or streak potion is just 15 sec anyway
Slotting a gap closer is not needed i play without and do more than fine,maybe you don't know how to play without it(if you play something beside magsorc)
And by your logic of gap closer be infinite counter to streak then any skill that break cloak is a infinite counter aswell.
Complaining about what?youre the one who started cloak+shade vs streak argument and i pointed that the fact cloak need another skill to be effective as streak say a lot when with streak you just need to press it to make it effective (there is no shutdown to streak but you can make cloak worthless against everyone)
Wtf are you saying? if 3 people are on you and you move away from 2 of them streak did his job and again you can use the stun of streak to stun and move out of range of gap closers,unlike cloak that one guy can break it and youre still in front of them and cloak did nothing.
This difference that you keep ignore to make your argument valid.
Also where do you read me complaining about streak?where do you read me say nerf streak or something?
If anything you and people supporting these thread are the one complaining.Im just pointing the difference why cloak have no fatigue and streak does.
Make cloak counterable just by magelight etc and detect pot and then add a fatigue.
Harder to counter but weaker overall.
And let me give you the same advice.
If you don't have any skill that work against cloak don't complain.
And last because trying to have a discussion with a magsorc main that read their own story in other people post is useless,to counter cloak you don't need magelight e co or detect pot they are extra to help people counter it but they are NOT NEEDED.
I will say it again to remind you(something that seem to be hard to grasp)that every class got something that work against cloak be it class skill jab/hurricane/curse/spiked armor or weapon skill like steel tornado,elemental blockade and those skill are used all the time not for cloak but for everything.
Stop. You use no gapcloser on a melee build and then claim Streak was super powerful. You can't be helped.
I don't even,you literally cant read.
Find where i say streak is op and need to be nerfed or even "super powerfull" ffs magsorcs main.
Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on August 17, 2019 2:04AM0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
I'm all for cloak fatigue or cost increase or whatever to limit abuse of skill. If people say magsorc does abuse streak, they build for high sustain and mag pool, stam sorc can't. Same for nightblades, most likely it will be the magblade sustaining the claok even with fatigue or whatever,but it does limit stamblade which is the most part of the problem. Both specs of nightblades do not need to build for survivability or sustain because cloak let them disangage whenever they are low on resources and reset.
That being said, I have to say that magicka warden and magucka nercomancer are the only classes not having a gap closer, though they do have range attacks which is another counter to streak.
Cloak fatique would interfere with stealthy movement.
I actually have a cooldown in mind. Like the one you get when your channel gets interrupted. Which makes sense, as Cloak is somewhat similar to a channel. So, if you get knocked out of Cloak by anything, you should be prevented from casting it again for... Hm, numbers need testing. First idea would be two seconds. Not set in stone.
This should make it easier to track NBs and punish them for bad positioning. But it should also keep the "sneaking behind enemy lines" capabilities and with clever LoS use, the cooldown shouldn't obliterate NB defenses.
A good feedback finally, but tbh I think prevent cast is more punishable than cost increase or fatigue.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
No one said steel tornado prevent cloak ?i said they work on cloak read better.
You literally said "Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else."
Give me the anti shield or streak potion is just 15 sec anyway
Slotting a gap closer is not needed i play without and do more than fine,maybe you don't know how to play without it(if you play something beside magsorc)
And by your logic of gap closer be infinite counter to streak then any skill that break cloak is a infinite counter aswell.
Complaining about what?youre the one who started cloak+shade vs streak argument and i pointed that the fact cloak need another skill to be effective as streak say a lot when with streak you just need to press it to make it effective (there is no shutdown to streak but you can make cloak worthless against everyone)
Wtf are you saying? if 3 people are on you and you move away from 2 of them streak did his job and again you can use the stun of streak to stun and move out of range of gap closers,unlike cloak that one guy can break it and youre still in front of them and cloak did nothing.
This difference that you keep ignore to make your argument valid.
Also where do you read me complaining about streak?where do you read me say nerf streak or something?
If anything you and people supporting these thread are the one complaining.Im just pointing the difference why cloak have no fatigue and streak does.
Make cloak counterable just by magelight etc and detect pot and then add a fatigue.
Harder to counter but weaker overall.
And let me give you the same advice.
If you don't have any skill that work against cloak don't complain.
And last because trying to have a discussion with a magsorc main that read their own story in other people post is useless,to counter cloak you don't need magelight e co or detect pot they are extra to help people counter it but they are NOT NEEDED.
I will say it again to remind you(something that seem to be hard to grasp)that every class got something that work against cloak be it class skill jab/hurricane/curse/spiked armor or weapon skill like steel tornado,elemental blockade and those skill are used all the time not for cloak but for everything.
Stop. You use no gapcloser on a melee build and then claim Streak was super powerful. You can't be helped.
I don't even,you literally cant read.
Find where i say streak is op and need to be nerfed or even "super powerfull" ffs magsorcs main.
So you are good of streak get penalty removed? Finally someone gets it. I'm stam sorc btw and I don't use streak or BOL.2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
But you can. Slot one of the many counters.
You can slot one of many counters of streak as well, then no complains of it was penalty free.
Are you even trying?
Streak counters?like aoe,a potion magelight etc stop streak from working and waste your magika?
Streak got softcounter with gapcloser but they are not counter/hardcounter.
Also a sorc can streak and stun the enemy and be out of range.
Cloak got all of the above,literally the same right?
First was on the dmg(and you ignored my post when proved wrong)and now youre trying to say streak got the same counter of cloak?Nice try.
Are you trying to become the next meme of the forum?
Oh, they don't prevent Cloak activation. They can interrupt the effect afterwards, but you get your forcemiss Cloak. Streaking through an enemy and away is the same as teleporting to your Shade and cloaking away. Don't pretend cloakers just stand still and get hit easily. Well, maybe you do. x3
And gapclosers are a hard counter. They do negate Streak's purpose, opening a gap. Doesn't matter if streaker and gapcloser move during, they'll remain in close range, rendering kiting impossible. And they are very easy to use. No stacking cost like Streak, no cooldown like d-pots. Quite the range, unlike Magelight and AoEs.
And lastly, the damage mitigation of a successful Cloak is potent. Especially in this DoT meta. Streak leaves you vulnerable during the animation. You'll eat every hit aimed at you unmitigated, with a long recovery after the animation. And may god have mercy on you if you're streaking down a slope, landing mid-air and falling afterwards, with a roll on the ground to round your demise up!
Ah ye shade+cloak vs streak then it become roll dodge+cloak+shade+los vs streak.
If you think gapcloser are hard counter you don't know what hard counter mean.
And also 1 counter vs many totally the same /facepalm sorc logic strike again.
Magelight etc stop cloak from casting and any aoe break cloak instantly is almost like it does not work in some situation must be shocking for you.
Ye and shade leave you vulnerable in the animation aswell so?
In this dot meta with the less healing than before and 5% more dmg taken nb flop faster than before. Cloak is good if not countered but not everyone play like a potato,if cloak is negated it does nothing but maybe for someone like you reveal nb must be a challenge.
As i (and others too)said give cloak a penality and make magelight expert hunter revealing flare the skill that counter and break cloak.deal?
@universal_wrath like me and many others yet you ignore every response abd keep spread miss infornation and youre the one who said nb dmg was not nerfed when it is but yeah tired of be proved wrong everytime i guess.
It's not one counter vs many. There are many gapclosers. You only need one, which is quite convenient. Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else.
I explained why gapclosers are a hard counter to gap openers. It's in the words.
Only Magelight prevents Cloak, and it's useless. Much like Flare. Not even counting the SA channel. The AoE has to hit an invisible target in range. Much different from aiming a gapcloser at a visible target with good range.
Shade animation is very fast and doesn't leave you struggling with terrain. It's nowhere near Streak risk.
EVERYONE drops faster, except for Templars. NBs have a fantastic tool to combat DoTs, though. Sorc shields? Not so good. Streak? Doesn't stop any DoT.
Magelight give you other buff aswell plus the counter of cloak,same for others just flare is useless and you said there is no skill that prevent cloak,aoe like spin2win,elemental blockade etc are used and they helps in more than one situation.
Detect pot make you a potato vs everyone?youre fighthing a nb and pop detect pot to kill him how this make you weak against others?
They also give you some buff other than just detection.
Shade animation is faster still projectile follow you and hit you once you finish the animation and shade unlike streak need to be placed before and cover a small area.Also just the fact that cloak need shade,loss and roll dodge to be effective as streak says a lot.
Gapcloser are not hard counter you still make the gap everytime unlike cloak that do nothing if break,youre not even moving away from the enemy.
Let's say you fight 3 people only one have a gap closer on their bar you streak you still moved away from two people you can also stun and move out of range with streak.
Same situation but with cloak,first since skill like breath,jabs spiked armor,hurricane(you get the idea)are used on like every build and they work against cloak(no sacrificies wooo shocking truth)you need just one of this guys to break it and unlike streak cloak failed 100%.
Gap closer are not on every build unlike those skill if anything.
Gap closer are soft counter,hard counter are skill that literally shut down youre class/skill and gap closer are not making streak or sorc useless in any way.
A good use of counter of cloak and cloak is doing nothing reason why NB have to use shade/loss and roll dodge just to attemp to cloak against any decent player(and it seem youre not on this side) and also the reason that mNB are on the weak side.
Steelnado doesn't prevent Cloak. It knocks you out of it AFTER it was cast.
Slotting just d-pots doesn't make you a potato. But it only gives you 15 seconds. Slotting just a gapcloser gives you infinite counter potential. And every melee build has a gapcloser slotted or it's a potato zergling noob. Maybe mag DKs are a slight exception. Maybe.
Shall I now also complain that streakers need to shield up against DoTs and dodgeroll so they get similar protection as Cloak always has? Says a lot.
It doesn't matter whether Streak moved you. The gap gets closed, so negated. Hard counter. Your example is rigged. Everyone has a gapcloser. Don't complain about Streak without a gapcloser slotted!
No one said steel tornado prevent cloak ?i said they work on cloak read better.
You literally said "Slot AoEs, Magelight and d-pots, you'll be a potato against anyone else."
Give me the anti shield or streak potion is just 15 sec anyway
Slotting a gap closer is not needed i play without and do more than fine,maybe you don't know how to play without it(if you play something beside magsorc)
And by your logic of gap closer be infinite counter to streak then any skill that break cloak is a infinite counter aswell.
Complaining about what?youre the one who started cloak+shade vs streak argument and i pointed that the fact cloak need another skill to be effective as streak say a lot when with streak you just need to press it to make it effective (there is no shutdown to streak but you can make cloak worthless against everyone)
Wtf are you saying? if 3 people are on you and you move away from 2 of them streak did his job and again you can use the stun of streak to stun and move out of range of gap closers,unlike cloak that one guy can break it and youre still in front of them and cloak did nothing.
This difference that you keep ignore to make your argument valid.
Also where do you read me complaining about streak?where do you read me say nerf streak or something?
If anything you and people supporting these thread are the one complaining.Im just pointing the difference why cloak have no fatigue and streak does.
Make cloak counterable just by magelight etc and detect pot and then add a fatigue.
Harder to counter but weaker overall.
And let me give you the same advice.
If you don't have any skill that work against cloak don't complain.
And last because trying to have a discussion with a magsorc main that read their own story in other people post is useless,to counter cloak you don't need magelight e co or detect pot they are extra to help people counter it but they are NOT NEEDED.
I will say it again to remind you(something that seem to be hard to grasp)that every class got something that work against cloak be it class skill jab/hurricane/curse/spiked armor or weapon skill like steel tornado,elemental blockade and those skill are used all the time not for cloak but for everything.
Stop. You use no gapcloser on a melee build and then claim Streak was super powerful. You can't be helped.
I don't even,you literally cant read.
Find where i say streak is op and need to be nerfed or even "super powerfull" ffs magsorcs main.
So you are good of streak get penalty removed? Finally someone gets it. I'm stam sorc btw and I don't use streak or BOL.
Yea i would not care tbh im just saying the reason why ZoS added a penality to streak and not cloak.
Nothing more nothing less.Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on August 17, 2019 2:16AM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
With that logic why is there fatigue for roll dodge and streak than? If roll dodge and/or streak is a primary source of survivability, than why not remove the fatigue for everything? Now is the best time for them to add fatigue to cloak, the NB is again the best class for this new DoT meta because if you can't see your target, you can't DoT them....
With dodge roll we are able to get the cost pretty low. Something that is not where near as possible with cloak. So your logic falls flat.
With Steak we can travel a long distance though I do laugh when I streak away and someone tries to catch me. So rare I get caught. I wish those players could actually hear me.
Unless that NB is very skilled they have not moved very far. That is why the counters work well in the hands of a player who does choose to figure out how to use them well. Ofc I do come across a skilled NB that uses more than just cloak to escape. But to complain that a skilled player was able to bet the best of you seems very counter to PvP.Edited by idk on August 17, 2019 2:28AM0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.
I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.
All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.
Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.
Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.
I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.
All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.
Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.
Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.
No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.
Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.
I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.
All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.
Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.
Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.
No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.
Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.
From of hard counters for claok is that they only work on NB. If you fight a DK while use have flare and throw it on the ground, the flare does nothing for both morphs.
Evil humter both morphs while gives major savageriy we can agrre that there are other resourcse for it, low range of skill and short duration; unless you want to build for crit, this skill and it's morphs are not practical.
Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.
For detect pots if you use them, are they worth using over immovable, tri stat, or power pot? You fight with nightblade and both exhuast all resources, he claok and use powr or tri stat pot and you use detect pot, he has more resources than you and if he ran away, you wasted a pot for nothing and stick for the 30 secs of cooldown because detect portion of potion last about 15 secs.
The problem is that all mentioned hard counters above have little use outside of fighting NB. You litteraly slot a skill that is expensive mostly or use a potion with 45 sec cooldown to counter 1 skill used by 1 class only. That is a waste of slot that could be used for something more useful.
I can't fit in a hard counter for claok unless if I solely fight Nighblades, because I do fight other classes beside nightblades. As for pots, without lingering health pot, my meduim armor sorcerer can't handle all the dots, direct dmg, and ultis. Having said that, I'm only talking about myself.
0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.
I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.
All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.
Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.
Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.
You play a Magplar main, which arguably has one of the best skillsets for countering Cloaked NBs. There's not much helping you if you don't use what the game gives you to counter Cloak.
On a side note, single target DoT suppression was given to NBs after the cleanse morph of Cloak was removed. Consider it a consolation prize.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.
I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.
All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.
Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.
Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.
No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.
Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.
From of hard counters for claok is that they only work on NB. If you fight a DK while use have flare and throw it on the ground, the flare does nothing for both morphs.
Evil humter both morphs while gives major savageriy we can agrre that there are other resourcse for it, low range of skill and short duration; unless you want to build for crit, this skill and it's morphs are not practical.
Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.
For detect pots if you use them, are they worth using over immovable, tri stat, or power pot? You fight with nightblade and both exhuast all resources, he claok and use powr or tri stat pot and you use detect pot, he has more resources than you and if he ran away, you wasted a pot for nothing and stick for the 30 secs of cooldown because detect portion of potion last about 15 secs.
The problem is that all mentioned hard counters above have little use outside of fighting NB. You litteraly slot a skill that is expensive mostly or use a potion with 45 sec cooldown to counter 1 skill used by 1 class only. That is a waste of slot that could be used for something more useful.
I can't fit in a hard counter for claok unless if I solely fight Nighblades, because I do fight other classes beside nightblades. As for pots, without lingering health pot, my meduim armor sorcerer can't handle all the dots, direct dmg, and ultis. Having said that, I'm only talking about myself.
I find it odd how well all this works for me and many others yet some find it easier to complain. I think that is the problem. It is easier to complain and get Zos to bring the game to your level rather than rise to it.
Oddly, I mostly use counters when I run solo so I have greater limitations. The reason I do not run counters that often when I run with my small group is because we have a smart leader and organize well. So nit picking as the post I quoted is doing makes so much less sense. If your group is poorly organized and lead maybe find a better group.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.
I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.
All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.
Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.
Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.
No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.
Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.
From of hard counters for claok is that they only work on NB. If you fight a DK while use have flare and throw it on the ground, the flare does nothing for both morphs.
Evil humter both morphs while gives major savageriy we can agrre that there are other resourcse for it, low range of skill and short duration; unless you want to build for crit, this skill and it's morphs are not practical.
Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.
For detect pots if you use them, are they worth using over immovable, tri stat, or power pot? You fight with nightblade and both exhuast all resources, he claok and use powr or tri stat pot and you use detect pot, he has more resources than you and if he ran away, you wasted a pot for nothing and stick for the 30 secs of cooldown because detect portion of potion last about 15 secs.
The problem is that all mentioned hard counters above have little use outside of fighting NB. You litteraly slot a skill that is expensive mostly or use a potion with 45 sec cooldown to counter 1 skill used by 1 class only. That is a waste of slot that could be used for something more useful.
I can't fit in a hard counter for claok unless if I solely fight Nighblades, because I do fight other classes beside nightblades. As for pots, without lingering health pot, my meduim armor sorcerer can't handle all the dots, direct dmg, and ultis. Having said that, I'm only talking about myself.
I find it odd how well all this works for me and many others yet some find it easier to complain. I think that is the problem. It is easier to complain and get Zos to bring the game to your level rather than rise to it.
Oddly, I mostly use counters when I run solo so I have greater limitations. The reason I do not run counters that often when I run with my small group is because we have a smart leader and organize well. So nit picking as the post I quoted is doing makes so much less sense. If your group is poorly organized and lead maybe find a better group.
Solo BG player here.0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.
I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.
All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.
Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.
Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.
No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.
Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.
From of hard counters for claok is that they only work on NB. If you fight a DK while use have flare and throw it on the ground, the flare does nothing for both morphs.
Evil humter both morphs while gives major savageriy we can agrre that there are other resourcse for it, low range of skill and short duration; unless you want to build for crit, this skill and it's morphs are not practical.
Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.
For detect pots if you use them, are they worth using over immovable, tri stat, or power pot? You fight with nightblade and both exhuast all resources, he claok and use powr or tri stat pot and you use detect pot, he has more resources than you and if he ran away, you wasted a pot for nothing and stick for the 30 secs of cooldown because detect portion of potion last about 15 secs.
The problem is that all mentioned hard counters above have little use outside of fighting NB. You litteraly slot a skill that is expensive mostly or use a potion with 45 sec cooldown to counter 1 skill used by 1 class only. That is a waste of slot that could be used for something more useful.
I can't fit in a hard counter for claok unless if I solely fight Nighblades, because I do fight other classes beside nightblades. As for pots, without lingering health pot, my meduim armor sorcerer can't handle all the dots, direct dmg, and ultis. Having said that, I'm only talking about myself.
I find it odd how well all this works for me and many others yet some find it easier to complain. I think that is the problem. It is easier to complain and get Zos to bring the game to your level rather than rise to it.
Oddly, I mostly use counters when I run solo so I have greater limitations. The reason I do not run counters that often when I run with my small group is because we have a smart leader and organize well. So nit picking as the post I quoted is doing makes so much less sense. If your group is poorly organized and lead maybe find a better group.
This logic cuts both ways. NBs don't want the skill ceiling raised to the same level of everyone else in which misuse of a skill is punished.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saying this as a sorc: Because stacking costs suck.
It´s not fun having stacking cost.
I wish streak didn´t increase in cost (atleast when hitting a target).
I don´t want stacking cost on cloak.
Hell - i wouldn´t even want it on dodgeroll if i could come up with an idea how to balance it properly in the process.Edited by Derra on August 17, 2019 7:59AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saying this as a sorc: Because stacking costs suck.
It´s not fun having stacking cost.
I wish streak didn´t increase in cost (atleast when hitting a target).
I don´t want stacking cost on cloak.
Hell - i wouldn´t even want it on dodgeroll if i could come up with an idea how to balance it properly in the process.
I agree, it would be better to just remove this exponential cost mechanic from the game. Streak is not overpowered anyway thanks to all the gap closers. Perma rollers aren't that bad either, considering they don't do much while they're rolling.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Streak is nothing like Dodge. CLOAK is like dodge. When you dodge or cloak, it makes an unlimited number of attacks miss you. When you streak, everything still hits. This is a totally absurd analogy.
Streak utilizes mobility to escape.
Dodgeroll utilizes mobility to escape.
Cloak has no mobility. When cast it's a damage mitigation tool.
Shield has no mobility. When cast it's is a damage mitigation tool.
Cloak is the ultimate mobility, you can't even be seen. That's the most powerful mobility in the game. Being able to reposition anywhere you want and no one can even see you.
On top of that, it's also a free Dodge in that all targeted attacks totally miss you. But it also suppresses damage over time. It also lets your next attack have a 100% chance to crit, just icing on the cake of the most powerful ability in the game. It needs a hard skill pass to balance it out. It's super overloaded.
Edited by josh.lackey_ESO on August 17, 2019 10:38AM2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Very much the opposite.- Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation
- Streak is the escape/fight reset. Cloak is the escape/fight reset.
But with that logic dodgeroll shouldnt have one or shields should have one
.
@NuarBlack If the game should be balanced around BGs THEN Nb should get some buffs ASAP. Or do u want to tell me that nightblade is a great class in bgs because then...Emma_Overload wrote: »Saying this as a sorc: Because stacking costs suck.
It´s not fun having stacking cost.
I wish streak didn´t increase in cost (atleast when hitting a target).
I don´t want stacking cost on cloak.
Hell - i wouldn´t even want it on dodgeroll if i could come up with an idea how to balance it properly in the process.
I agree, it would be better to just remove this exponential cost mechanic from the game. Streak is not overpowered anyway thanks to all the gap closers. Perma rollers aren't that bad either, considering they don't do much while they're rolling.
Imagine Emma defending nightblades monkaS - strange times - Derra aswell.
I would trade stacking cost on cloak like 15% if nb would do dmg again. The dmg is only enough to kill potatoes. Almost every class has higher dmg this patch, nb dps was never great besides the high burst of assasinswill + incap. With delay on those spells only complete potatoes will get hit by both. But who cares anybody that wants to play fotm will play templar or DK anyways
with all the dot dmg buffs.
Nb nerf list(no need to mention magblade because thats a meme spec anyways):
SA lost fracture
Will lost the dmg buff and got migation
incap got like 3 nerfs from 75 ult with stun and defile to 125 for silence without defile
every stam class got a better fear
The forums: Nb still got an unigue spell with alot of counters --> lets nerf that next , so nb got bad dmg and bad defense. Atleast sorc got the same treatment 
. Thats what u get forumblades and sorcs if u cant stop trying to nerf each other.
Edit: Im rly curious why people are still so obsessed with nightblade and sorc... Both are mediocre at max in this patch.Edited by Murador178 on August 17, 2019 10:54AM1 - Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation