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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
Streak fatigue but no Cloak fatigue?
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InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Can you stop crutching on over powered skills and learn to play the game when you are punished for making mistakes?InvictusApollo wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Cloak > shield. It's not even close. Damage is a hard counter to shield essentially by your logic plus oblivion damage. To where cloak supresses dot damage and makes you un targetable for the duration.
Can you do damage while in cloak?
Can your damage shield be completely denied by a single ability or a potion?
Do you get stunned and get extra damage when your shield gets negated by some ability?
Can you use cloak to gain extra health for the next few seconds after you used LOS to stack your cloaks?
Can you just learn how to play a game instead of calling for nerfs of anything that you find challenging?
Ha ha ah aha ha ah aha ha aha ha
What if I told you that my nightblades don't even use the Shadow Cloak and instead rely on Dark Cloak to brawl face to face?
Shadow Cloak is perfectly balanced as it is now. But you won't accept it because that would mean that you don't know how to counter it. Both cloak and shields have their pros and cons and are meant to make gameplay interesting. Stop whining and craft yourself a batch of detection potions. Use them in battle with a nightblade and watch them die thinking they are safe in invisibility.8 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »
Can you stop crutching on over powered skills and learn to play the game when you are punished for making mistakes?InvictusApollo wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Cloak > shield. It's not even close. Damage is a hard counter to shield essentially by your logic plus oblivion damage. To where cloak supresses dot damage and makes you un targetable for the duration.
Can you do damage while in cloak?
Can your damage shield be completely denied by a single ability or a potion?
Do you get stunned and get extra damage when your shield gets negated by some ability?
Can you use cloak to gain extra health for the next few seconds after you used LOS to stack your cloaks?
Can you just learn how to play a game instead of calling for nerfs of anything that you find challenging?
Ha ha ah aha ha ah aha ha aha ha
What if I told you that my nightblades don't even use the Shadow Cloak and instead rely on Dark Cloak to brawl face to face?
Shadow Cloak is perfectly balanced as it is now. But you won't accept it because that would mean that you don't know how to counter it. Both cloak and shields have their pros and cons and are meant to make gameplay interesting. Stop whining and craft yourself a batch of detection potions. Use them in battle with a nightblade and watch them die thinking they are safe in invisibility.
The ol' just slot detect pots answer. Yeah slot detect pots and its no big deal sure. But that is devoting your one precious potion slot to counter just one skill(you cant macro or effectively hot key potions on console) and is completely worthless against everything else. And that is just ridiculous. No other skill in the game has to be specifically countered that way.
And I know many NB don't run shadowy disguise. 2 of my 3 NB run the heal morph. I play every class, every spec. 15 total max level toons so quit acting high and mighty. I can handle NBs just fine on a lot of them because of various strengths of those sub classes. Yeah I can eat cloak rollers all day on stamsorc.
My point is that cloak as is now is over performing in regards to screwing up, it isn't punished evenly. To put it in ZoS terms it's performance is too polarizing. It way over perfoms in certain situations and is completely worthless in others. I'd like to see hard counters deleted like detect pots and a fatigue mechanic implemented so when soft counters are used effectively there is a penalty for being caught by them as the cloaking NB. For example gap closer directly and easily counters streak yet streak still has the fatigue. And if a streaking sorc messes up and streaks the wrong direction or into something that stunts the distance of their streak or are immediately gap closed on then they are penalized with the fatigued cost increase. Not sure what is so radical about saying cloak should have the same parameters for counter play?Edited by NuarBlack on August 4, 2019 7:46PM6 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »
Can you stop crutching on over powered skills and learn to play the game when you are punished for making mistakes?InvictusApollo wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Cloak > shield. It's not even close. Damage is a hard counter to shield essentially by your logic plus oblivion damage. To where cloak supresses dot damage and makes you un targetable for the duration.
Can you do damage while in cloak?
Can your damage shield be completely denied by a single ability or a potion?
Do you get stunned and get extra damage when your shield gets negated by some ability?
Can you use cloak to gain extra health for the next few seconds after you used LOS to stack your cloaks?
Can you just learn how to play a game instead of calling for nerfs of anything that you find challenging?
Ha ha ah aha ha ah aha ha aha ha
What if I told you that my nightblades don't even use the Shadow Cloak and instead rely on Dark Cloak to brawl face to face?
Shadow Cloak is perfectly balanced as it is now. But you won't accept it because that would mean that you don't know how to counter it. Both cloak and shields have their pros and cons and are meant to make gameplay interesting. Stop whining and craft yourself a batch of detection potions. Use them in battle with a nightblade and watch them die thinking they are safe in invisibility.
The ol' just slot detect pots answer. Yeah slot detect pots and its no big deal sure. But that is devoting your one precious potion slot to counter just one skill(you cant macro or effectively hot key potions on console) and is completely worthless against everything else. And that is just ridiculous. No other skill in the game has to be specifically countered that way.
And I know many NB don't run shadowy disguise. 2 of my 3 NB run the heal morph. I play every class, every spec. 15 total max level toons so quit acting high and mighty. I can handle NBs just fine on a lot of them because of various strengths of those sub classes. Yeah I can eat cloak rollers all day on stamsorc.
My point is that cloak as is now is over performing in regards to screwing up, it isn't punished evenly. To put it in ZoS terms it's performance is too polarizing. It way over perfoms in certain situations and is completely worthless in others. I'd like to see hard counters deleted like detect pots and a fatigue mechanic implemented so when soft counters are used effectively there is a penalty for being caught by them as the cloaking NB. For example gap closer directly and easily counters streak yet streak still has the fatigue. And if a streaking sorc messes up and streaks the wrong direction or into something that stunts the distance of their streak or are immediately gap closed on then they are penalized with the fatigued cost increase. Not sure what is so radical about saying cloak should have the same parameters for counter play?
Because it's not necessary in the current state of the game.4 -
GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭Why doesn't op and all the other "op nb" cry babies just roll a nb?
If it's sooooooo strong then why not just make one yourselfEdited by GhostofDatthaw on August 4, 2019 9:11PM11 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.5
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GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
The only NBS I come across that are unkillable are people why are just flat out better players than I am.
Same goes for sorc
For warden
For dk
For Templar
For necro4 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
The only NBS I come across that are unkillable are people why are just flat out better players than I am.
Same goes for sorc
For warden
For dk
For Templar
For necro
Ok completely missed my point there, but true.
Magblade can permacloak, if allowed you would never ever see them. Almost non-existant besides bombers and tanks. Surely if cloak was that strong everybody would be running magblade.7 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.
Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.
Same for cloak.
Cloak > shield. It's not even close. Damage is a hard counter to shield essentially by your logic plus oblivion damage. To where cloak supresses dot damage and makes you un targetable for the duration.
That being said I would be all for a shield fatigue nerf if shields were balanced around the concept. As spamming any defensive measure is just bad game design period. Regardless of what skill it is as it doesn't provide for counter play. There is no counter play if you counter what someone did properly only for them to be able to just spam it again with no penalty.
So the fatigue mechanic should be added to a lot more skills imo. Starting with shields, cloak and gap closers. Probably even CC so that can't be mindlessly spammed either.
I’ve been arguing this for years. Gap closer spamming shouldn’t be encouraged.Power Wealth And Influence.4 -
TriangularChicken✭✭✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
The only NBS I come across that are unkillable are people why are just flat out better players than I am.
Same goes for sorc
For warden
For dk
For Templar
For necro
Ok completely missed my point there, but true.
Magblade can permacloak, if allowed you would never ever see them. Almost non-existant besides bombers and tanks. Surely if cloak was that strong everybody would be running magblade.
Nobody has a problem fighting mag NBs because their overall mobility is balanced.
Stam NB on the other hand has access to cloak, shade and most importantly dodge roll. All 3 combined are the problem, so if you manage to balance aka nerf one of them without nerfing mag nb we solve the problem - simply increase the base cost of cloak (shadowy disguise) and add a passive that decreases the cost for each piece of light armor you're wearing. No nerf for mag NB, nerf for medium and heavy troll king bleed stam blades.5 -
GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
The only NBS I come across that are unkillable are people why are just flat out better players than I am.
Same goes for sorc
For warden
For dk
For Templar
For necro
Ok completely missed my point there, but true.
Magblade can permacloak, if allowed you would never ever see them. Almost non-existant besides bombers and tanks. Surely if cloak was that strong everybody would be running magblade.
Oohhh you were being sarcastic... Hard to pick these things up on internet, ya know, type and all... Maybe we should go back to saying kappa1 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
I've been playing on quite high MMR with a magblade before Minor Vulnerability nerf. And I was almost unkillable but most of my builds are. I could hold my ground against a whole enemy team and sometimes even wipe them one by one thanks to Major Berserk and Light's Champion.
But here is my point about Cloak: I haven't used the Shadowy Disguise morph, only the healing one. That is why I don't understand why people are so whiny about invisibility.0 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Someone with high MMR tell me when you come across a Nightblade in BGs. They're so unkillable it should be full of them.
I've been playing on quite high MMR with a magblade before Minor Vulnerability nerf. And I was almost unkillable but most of my builds are. I could hold my ground against a whole enemy team and sometimes even wipe them one by one thanks to Major Berserk and Light's Champion.
But here is my point about Cloak: I haven't used the Shadowy Disguise morph, only the healing one. That is why I don't understand why people are so whiny about invisibility.
Yeah people aren't complaining about Dark Cloak but Shadowy Cloak. You're right a MagNB with DC is strong, but with SC not so much.
You would love HoT and 8% mitigation for 3s of stealth, IF the enemy isn't using one of 100 counters.2 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really enjoy being beat by a better player. It shows me I could improve, do things better.
But instead, OP, would rather whine for something to be nerfed or made easier to cater to them.
Wtf is wrong with people where they always want the easy way? Learn to lose, op. And learn from losing.3 -
Undefwun✭✭✭✭✭I’ll cut n paste my reply from your other thread
“Are we upset because the OP purple flying crutch chicken got nerfed? Streak pulls you out of cloak and can stun. Free tip for you. I have a stam and magsorc so I’ve tested it for you.
1) If one plays an in anyway balanced magblade build cloak is not an I WIN button. So many counters. Good players are fine in countering it. Almost more than fine.
Stam toons are inherently faster so they can keep you out of cloak. Race against Time has slightly helped, but in a 1vX situation often many escape routes are blocked due to counters.
I said balanced build, because any class can be specced as a 1 hit wonder.
2) Not sure you want the remaining magblades to spec Dark Cloak.
In BGs I was face tanking 2-3 ppl in 5 light. The same ppl I would have to cloak around and pick my target and timing with.
In CP the tankyness went up even more
But I got bored, it’s not why I made a nightblade.
As you can see below I have many pvp toons so I face cloak as much as I use it.
3) if I am trying to perma cloak I am running. I am not killing anything if am spamming cloak. You are not in danger to die to a perma cloaker.
People need to play a nightblade against good players or against a sweaty group hellbent on killing you and see how much cloak is NOT OP.”Drank Sinatra Sr - PvP Magblade - DC
Juggathot - PvP Mag Sorc - DC
Jedi Mind Crits - PvP A-Hole Bowblade - DC
Dollar Store Thor - PvP Stamplar - DC
The Bone Sumpremacy - baby Stamcro - DC
Wârden Freeman - PvP Stamden - DC (on hold)
Lauryn Heal - PvE Magplar DPS - DC
Lil Orc Chop - PvP Stam Sorc - EP
Hamuel L Jackson - PvE DPS & PvP Stam DK - EP
Chandler Bling - PvP Magden - EP
Mahalia Lightborn - exiled crafting toon - cos you know, she's AD2 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.4 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
Streak is way more op than cloak6 -
Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Cloak and Streak are not even comparible. Sorcs being sorcs as usual.
Seriously, clock is so mush more op than streak.
I could see stamsorc maybe..but lets be honest it’s the magsorcs that complain about other classes defensive abilities being op..
Tell everyone to use a gap closer then proceed to cry about gap closer spam1 -
raasdal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Play NB. I have no anti-NB bias. Cloak should DEFINETELY have stacking cost when used back-to-back. Aka Fatigue Mechanic. Cloak is an all round OP skill. Being able to permacast it is just broken.
Just to remind everyone; They introduced fatigue mechanic because CP and Sets allowed you to get so much sustain, that you could cast some skills indefintely. We had permarolling builds and we had permastreaking builds.
Dodgeroll got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Streak got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Cloak SHOULD ALSO get stacking cost, because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
All 3 skills are very comparable. They are all escape tools, that helps you to both disengage in combat and to avoid taking damage. They are so similar that personally i cant believe they have not done anything about it already. It feels so natural to me, that it should have fatigue. WHY should a magblade be allowed to permacloak around the battlefield with no penalty? It makes no sense at all, and it way too OP. Just like it was when Sorcs could permastreak and every stamchar could permaroll.
The most common defense i see is "Cloak is easy to counter". Wether you can counter a cloaking NB in combat is completely and absolutely irrelevant. I can counter Streaking sorcs by simply gapclose spamming. I can do the same with dodgerollers. Both these other skills are equally "easy" to counter, if you know what you are doing and you make sure that your build has counters for all these major mechanics. The fact still remains, that being able to spam Cloak, is just as broken as being able to spam Dodge or Streak. Therefore it should get fatigue.
There are no other skills in the game, that i feel currently should get fatigue. But i do think blocking should also have fatigue, under the same logic.
Edited by raasdal on August 6, 2019 10:18AMPC - EU
Gromag Gro-Molag - Sorcerer - EP
Dexion Velus - Dragonknight - AD
Chalaux Erissa - Nightblade - AD
Firiel Erissa - Templar - AD11 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭I Play NB. I have no anti-NB bias. Cloak should DEFINETELY have stacking cost when used back-to-back. Aka Fatigue Mechanic. Cloak is an all round OP skill. Being able to permacast it is just broken.
Just to remind everyone; They introduced fatigue mechanic because CP and Sets allowed you to get so much sustain, that you could cast some skills indefintely. We had permarolling builds and we had permastreaking builds.
Dodgeroll got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Streak got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Cloak SHOULD ALSO get stacking cost, because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
All 3 skills are very comparable. They are all escape tools, that helps you to both disengage in combat and to avoid taking damage. They are so similar that personally i cant believe they have not done anything about it already. It feels so natural to me, that it should have fatigue. WHY should a magblade be allowed to permacloak around the battlefield with no penalty? It makes no sense at all, and it way too OP. Just like it was when Sorcs could permastreak and every stamchar could permaroll.
The most common defense i see is "Cloak is easy to counter". Wether you can counter a cloaking NB in combat is completely and absolutely irrelevant. I can counter Streaking sorcs by simply gapclose spamming. I can do the same with dodgerollers. Both these other skills are equally "easy" to counter, if you know what you are doing and you make sure that your build has counters for all these major mechanics. The fact still remains, that being able to spam Cloak, is just as broken as being able to spam Dodge or Streak. Therefore it should get fatigue.
There are no other skills in the game, that i feel currently should get fatigue. But i do think blocking should also have fatigue, under the same logic.
By that logic shields should fatigue, stop people from permashielding.
You can't COUNTER dodgeroll or Streak because it always does it's ability. You can react to it but you can't stop someone dodgerolling or streaking.
You can counter cloak, nullifying it's mechanics. Make Cloak unbreakable and sure, add fatigue.6 -
raasdal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Play NB. I have no anti-NB bias. Cloak should DEFINETELY have stacking cost when used back-to-back. Aka Fatigue Mechanic. Cloak is an all round OP skill. Being able to permacast it is just broken.
Just to remind everyone; They introduced fatigue mechanic because CP and Sets allowed you to get so much sustain, that you could cast some skills indefintely. We had permarolling builds and we had permastreaking builds.
Dodgeroll got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Streak got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Cloak SHOULD ALSO get stacking cost, because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
All 3 skills are very comparable. They are all escape tools, that helps you to both disengage in combat and to avoid taking damage. They are so similar that personally i cant believe they have not done anything about it already. It feels so natural to me, that it should have fatigue. WHY should a magblade be allowed to permacloak around the battlefield with no penalty? It makes no sense at all, and it way too OP. Just like it was when Sorcs could permastreak and every stamchar could permaroll.
The most common defense i see is "Cloak is easy to counter". Wether you can counter a cloaking NB in combat is completely and absolutely irrelevant. I can counter Streaking sorcs by simply gapclose spamming. I can do the same with dodgerollers. Both these other skills are equally "easy" to counter, if you know what you are doing and you make sure that your build has counters for all these major mechanics. The fact still remains, that being able to spam Cloak, is just as broken as being able to spam Dodge or Streak. Therefore it should get fatigue.
There are no other skills in the game, that i feel currently should get fatigue. But i do think blocking should also have fatigue, under the same logic.
By that logic shields should fatigue, stop people from permashielding.
You can't COUNTER dodgeroll or Streak because it always does it's ability. You can react to it but you can't stop someone dodgerolling or streaking.
You can counter cloak, nullifying it's mechanics. Make Cloak unbreakable and sure, add fatigue.
No. You do not understand the logic then. Shielding is in no way comparable to Dodge / Streak / Cloak. It is a completely different mechanic. All the 3 mentioned fatigue-skills are disengage and avoid-damage skills.
Shields absorb damage. They do not allow you to disengage or to become untargeteable. Shields are comparable to Burst Heals and should NOT have fatigue.
Valid point though about not being able to outright stop streak / dodgeroll from being cast. Although you can actually stop streak by silencing but that is not really a viable thing to rely on. But cloak can be pre-emptively denied by casting reveal skills. So i guess one could look at reworking that, when the fatigue was applied.PC - EU
Gromag Gro-Molag - Sorcerer - EP
Dexion Velus - Dragonknight - AD
Chalaux Erissa - Nightblade - AD
Firiel Erissa - Templar - AD4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they should remove the cost of both streak and invisibility
defenses should not have high costs.
i see nothing wrong with a sorc being allowed to streak as escape, just remove the stun and damage from it
same with cloak, it should be used as defensive only.
As someone who plays a mSorc and mNB often I disagree. The cost of both is fine and the design of Streak fatigue along with the hard counters to cloak are a good design.
Yes I have all classes both stam and magicka. For PvP I tend to go mSorc, mNB or stamplar depending on my mood and how the class is doing at the time.1 -
GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭I Play NB. I have no anti-NB bias. Cloak should DEFINETELY have stacking cost when used back-to-back. Aka Fatigue Mechanic. Cloak is an all round OP skill. Being able to permacast it is just broken.
Just to remind everyone; They introduced fatigue mechanic because CP and Sets allowed you to get so much sustain, that you could cast some skills indefintely. We had permarolling builds and we had permastreaking builds.
Dodgeroll got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Streak got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Cloak SHOULD ALSO get stacking cost, because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
All 3 skills are very comparable. They are all escape tools, that helps you to both disengage in combat and to avoid taking damage. They are so similar that personally i cant believe they have not done anything about it already. It feels so natural to me, that it should have fatigue. WHY should a magblade be allowed to permacloak around the battlefield with no penalty? It makes no sense at all, and it way too OP. Just like it was when Sorcs could permastreak and every stamchar could permaroll.
The most common defense i see is "Cloak is easy to counter". Wether you can counter a cloaking NB in combat is completely and absolutely irrelevant. I can counter Streaking sorcs by simply gapclose spamming. I can do the same with dodgerollers. Both these other skills are equally "easy" to counter, if you know what you are doing and you make sure that your build has counters for all these major mechanics. The fact still remains, that being able to spam Cloak, is just as broken as being able to spam Dodge or Streak. Therefore it should get fatigue.
There are no other skills in the game, that i feel currently should get fatigue. But i do think blocking should also have fatigue, under the same logic.
By that logic shields should fatigue, stop people from permashielding.
You can't COUNTER dodgeroll or Streak because it always does it's ability. You can react to it but you can't stop someone dodgerolling or streaking.
You can counter cloak, nullifying it's mechanics. Make Cloak unbreakable and sure, add fatigue.
No. You do not understand the logic then. Shielding is in no way comparable to Dodge / Streak / Cloak. It is a completely different mechanic. All the 3 mentioned fatigue-skills are disengage and avoid-damage skills.
Shields absorb damage. They do not allow you to disengage or to become untargeteable. Shields are comparable to Burst Heals and should NOT have fatigue.
Valid point though about not being able to outright stop streak / dodgeroll from being cast. Although you can actually stop streak by silencing but that is not really a viable thing to rely on. But cloak can be pre-emptively denied by casting reveal skills. So i guess one could look at reworking that, when the fatigue was applied.
I don't think you understand your own logic. You said
"There are no other skills in the game, that i feel currently should get fatigue. But i do think blocking should also have fatigue, under the same logic."
Then you say
"Shields absorb damage. They do not allow you to disengage or to become untargeteable. Shields are comparable to Burst Heals and should NOT have fatigue."
If anything shields is the mag form of perma blocking.5 -
WacArnold✭✭✭I made a sorc recently threw on some gear for giggles and its already better then my magblade that i have had for years. Sorc is stronger than a magblade that can cloak forever.
Lets get down to the main problem you have, which is cloak annoys you and YOU dont like it so YOU want it nerfed. Qq somewhere else this is a discussion thread.Xbox One - North American - Ebonheart PactAnti-Pop Lv 50 Magicka Nightblade Dark ElfWacArnold Lv 50 Magicka Templar Argonian3 -
Haink✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »InvictusApollo wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.
The ol' just slot detect pots answer. Yeah slot detect pots and its no big deal sure. But that is devoting your one precious potion slot to counter just one skill(you cant macro or effectively hot key potions on console) and is completely worthless against everything else. And that is just ridiculous. No other skill in the game has to be specifically countered that way.
There is no quickslot for potions on Xbox? I don't use macros on PC.. I have to hold Q then move my mouse over to the potion I want to use at the time. I feel like it has to be a similar deal on xbox or am I wrong?0 -
raasdal✭✭✭✭✭
✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »I Play NB. I have no anti-NB bias. Cloak should DEFINETELY have stacking cost when used back-to-back. Aka Fatigue Mechanic. Cloak is an all round OP skill. Being able to permacast it is just broken.
Just to remind everyone; They introduced fatigue mechanic because CP and Sets allowed you to get so much sustain, that you could cast some skills indefintely. We had permarolling builds and we had permastreaking builds.
Dodgeroll got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Streak got stacking cost because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
Cloak SHOULD ALSO get stacking cost, because being able to permacast it, breaks the game. You become untargetable by almost all skills.
All 3 skills are very comparable. They are all escape tools, that helps you to both disengage in combat and to avoid taking damage. They are so similar that personally i cant believe they have not done anything about it already. It feels so natural to me, that it should have fatigue. WHY should a magblade be allowed to permacloak around the battlefield with no penalty? It makes no sense at all, and it way too OP. Just like it was when Sorcs could permastreak and every stamchar could permaroll.
The most common defense i see is "Cloak is easy to counter". Wether you can counter a cloaking NB in combat is completely and absolutely irrelevant. I can counter Streaking sorcs by simply gapclose spamming. I can do the same with dodgerollers. Both these other skills are equally "easy" to counter, if you know what you are doing and you make sure that your build has counters for all these major mechanics. The fact still remains, that being able to spam Cloak, is just as broken as being able to spam Dodge or Streak. Therefore it should get fatigue.
There are no other skills in the game, that i feel currently should get fatigue. But i do think blocking should also have fatigue, under the same logic.
By that logic shields should fatigue, stop people from permashielding.
You can't COUNTER dodgeroll or Streak because it always does it's ability. You can react to it but you can't stop someone dodgerolling or streaking.
You can counter cloak, nullifying it's mechanics. Make Cloak unbreakable and sure, add fatigue.
No. You do not understand the logic then. Shielding is in no way comparable to Dodge / Streak / Cloak. It is a completely different mechanic. All the 3 mentioned fatigue-skills are disengage and avoid-damage skills.
Shields absorb damage. They do not allow you to disengage or to become untargeteable. Shields are comparable to Burst Heals and should NOT have fatigue.
Valid point though about not being able to outright stop streak / dodgeroll from being cast. Although you can actually stop streak by silencing but that is not really a viable thing to rely on. But cloak can be pre-emptively denied by casting reveal skills. So i guess one could look at reworking that, when the fatigue was applied.
I don't think you understand your own logic. You said
"There are no other skills in the game, that i feel currently should get fatigue. But i do think blocking should also have fatigue, under the same logic."
Then you say
"Shields absorb damage. They do not allow you to disengage or to become untargeteable. Shields are comparable to Burst Heals and should NOT have fatigue."
If anything shields is the mag form of perma blocking.
Point taken. You are right there. By my own logic Blocking should not get fatigue mechanic.PC - EU
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Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe shadowy disguise should use your largest resource pool. If you are stamblade, it costs stamina and if you are magblade, it costs magicka.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is there a ramping increase cost "fatigue" mechanic on streak but not on cloak? At least you can still use ranged abilities on sorcs when they streak away, however, when a NB cloaks they are completely un-targetable. Does not make sense to me, people complain about how powerful cloak is all the time, and forces people to use expensive reveal potions in PvP. Why no add fatigue to cloak as it exists on roll dodge and streak currently.
Because cloak cannot be compared to streak.
You can use an AoE skill to stop cloak
you can use a revealing skill/set to stop cloak
you can even drink a pot to stop cloak.
Where's the pot I have to use to stop a streaking sorc?
Anyway, I also consider that the streak penalty is a stupid and lazy solution in the same way it's stupid and lazy on dodge roll. Those mechanics should be countered, not punishedSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is there a ramping increase cost "fatigue" mechanic on streak but not on cloak? At least you can still use ranged abilities on sorcs when they streak away, however, when a NB cloaks they are completely un-targetable. Does not make sense to me, people complain about how powerful cloak is all the time, and forces people to use expensive reveal potions in PvP. Why no add fatigue to cloak as it exists on roll dodge and streak currently.
Because sorcs have shield stacking and streak. plus there are no Pots i can use to nullify streak....I say introduce a cool down for cloak, or get rid of it for pvp. It's a terribly unbalanced skill even with all the counters
Infact it's probably more unbalanced in pve because those counters don't exist and huge amounts of content can be skipped.
F it. Just get rid of it all together and the nightblade unique skill can be shade
Nah, it's just an l2p issue. Seriously, get on EP and go to the Sej/Alessia area, you'll get real good at fighting NB's real quick.
Miat and Mizaru teach you in the bad way. I have to say that it is the funniest part of the mapSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0
