Streak fatigue but no Cloak fatigue?

josh.lackey_ESO

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Perma rollers aren't that bad either, considering they don't do much while they're rolling.

This is not true. Dodge is off the global cooldown. You can animation cancel anything with a dodge. So between every dodge, they could weave an ability.

josh.lackey_ESO

brandonv516 wrote: »

On a side note, single target DoT suppression was given to NBs after the cleanse morph of Cloak was removed. Consider it a consolation prize.

Or to look at it another way, every Nightblade was upgraded to a free crit every time they Cloak. So they no longer had to choose, they could have their cake and eat it, too.

josh.lackey_ESO

universal_wrath wrote: »

Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.

Radiant Magelight is garbage now, because you have to spam it every 6 seconds, and it's a very small range after modifiers so you have to be right on top of the nightblade. The de-cloak is a joke, it only lasts two seconds. So you also have to stay right on top of the nightblade.

It used to be a good skill because you could toggle it on and chase a nightblade, if you could stay on top of them you could kill them. But now you have to spam Magelight while you try to chase, and weave in other damage. It's just not any good.

Flare is just as useless. It's way too slow.

Even Det pots range makes it hard to stay close enough. The base range is okay, but the modifiers whittle it down to a very small area.

They should turn one of them into a true "See Invisibility" so you can just see through invisibility for the duration. Not a reveal, if you get close, but just to actually see the person who is invis (you would see the red hazy outline like they see).

InvictusApollo

Insco851 wrote: »

Also, sorcs even with increased streak cost... can STILL PERMA STREAK across Cyrodiil.

No. They don't. They can activate it a few times to put a distance between them and their enemies, but they are left with no magicka after that. This means that a speedy stamina build with gap closer can still catch a sorcerer.

brandonv516

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

On a side note, single target DoT suppression was given to NBs after the cleanse morph of Cloak was removed. Consider it a consolation prize.

Or to look at it another way, every Nightblade was upgraded to a free crit every time they Cloak. So they no longer had to choose, they could have their cake and eat it, too.

My personal opinion is I would prefer the free 100% crit chance be removed and be given something else instead.

A bit of honesty here coming from a NB who knows how to abuse that 100% crit.

We aren't just talking about a single skill that is guaranteed. We are also talking about the light attack and enchantment too. And when proc sets used to crit, you could add an offensive one into the mix that met the conditions.

And in a 1v1 you can even kite a target around with Cloak + Shade and guarantee those crits keep coming (the ones that don't want to slot counters lol).

It's an overloaded morph. Cloak alone is fine. The crit guarantee needs to go but we need to get something else - just not as potent.

NuarBlack

Murador178 wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.

Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.


Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.

Same for cloak.

Very much the opposite.

• Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation
  
• Streak is the escape/fight reset. Cloak is the escape/fight reset.
  

Cloak should have fatigue just like Streak.

@NuarBlack If the game should be balanced around BGs THEN Nb should get some buffs ASAP. Or do u want to tell me that nightblade is a great class in bgs because then....

Some compensation could definitely occur, especially for magblades. Concealed weapon could be a place to start as that skill is so worthless relative to other options outside niche builds. Maybe make using it remove fatigue and a little damage boost.

After that I think Zos just needs to pick a soft counter that has universal access and usefulness and make that the only thing that breaks cloak. Probably direct AOE damage. As hard counters are so dumb because of their polarizing nature. They are not good for the NB or the person fighting them. As being completely blocked from a skill is just dumb as the NB. And as the ome fighting the NB having to slot an ability that is only useful against one morph of a skill is dumb as well. So if only direct damage AOE is all that breaks cloak that would let cloak be useful around those team fights where ground aoe dots are being stacked but then getting caught by a direct damage aoe is punished by having fatigue on the skill.

You could bump the duration of cloak up by a second too if you add stacking fatigue as well. As that is part of the abuse is being able to perma cloak nulifying the whole sneak system since cloak can be used so easily instead. but a little longer duration would keep it still useful for broader repositioning applications if used right.

Derra

Murador178 wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

[*] Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation

[*] Streak is the escape/fight reset. Cloak is the escape/fight reset.

[/list]
Cloak should have fatigue just like Streak.

But with that logic dodgeroll shouldnt have one or shields should have one .

By that logic dodge should only evade a finite amount of dmg aswell though

psycoprophet

Or we all could just except the rogue class as all other rogue classes that came before it have easy access to stealth and invisiblity and are balanced around such leading to a playstyle people enjoy hence why they chose the class to begin with. Stealth always creates salt, limit it too much and it becomes not viable and when it's not viable due to how rogues are balance the class becomes not viable. Make a rogue class viable without the stealth playstyle and then it's not really a rogue archetype. I doubt these devs would nerf cloak much as it's been a staple of the nb since its conception, and besides knowing these devs soon all classes will have access to a cloak of their own lol
There's also a large difference between something being annoying to fight against and being op, I'd say more than half the cloaks OP cries are due to more annoyance than anything.

TheBonesXXX

Salt Mine, this is a salt mine for the frail ego.

Any of you ever fail at something, well theres the end of the world.

Streak and Cloak do not have the same function, theyre not remotely similar.

In other games neither mechanic is spammable, see WoW for example. Blink is on a CD, Shields are on CD. Cloak of Shadows cleanses and Vanish is insta stealth.

Theyre not the same no matter what theyre called in any MMO.

universal_wrath

psycoprophet wrote: »

Or we all could just except the rogue class as all other rogue classes that came before it have easy access to stealth and invisiblity and are balanced around such leading to a playstyle people enjoy hence why they chose the class to begin with. Stealth always creates salt, limit it too much and it becomes not viable and when it's not viable due to how rogues are balance the class becomes not viable. Make a rogue class viable without the stealth playstyle and then it's not really a rogue archetype. I doubt these devs would nerf cloak much as it's been a staple of the nb since its conception, and besides knowing these devs soon all classes will have access to a cloak of their own lol
There's also a large difference between something being annoying to fight against and being op, I'd say more than half the cloaks OP cries are due to more annoyance than anything.

Know body is taking away stealth from nightblade, we just want fatigue to prevent abuse. Nightblades are not squishy anymore and tyey have better healing passives to keep them alive. Only sqiishy nightblade are the ones that want to go full dmg necause they can spam cloak for engage and disengage of combat without drawbacks.

brandonv516

universal_wrath wrote: »

psycoprophet wrote: »

Or we all could just except the rogue class as all other rogue classes that came before it have easy access to stealth and invisiblity and are balanced around such leading to a playstyle people enjoy hence why they chose the class to begin with. Stealth always creates salt, limit it too much and it becomes not viable and when it's not viable due to how rogues are balance the class becomes not viable. Make a rogue class viable without the stealth playstyle and then it's not really a rogue archetype. I doubt these devs would nerf cloak much as it's been a staple of the nb since its conception, and besides knowing these devs soon all classes will have access to a cloak of their own lol
There's also a large difference between something being annoying to fight against and being op, I'd say more than half the cloaks OP cries are due to more annoyance than anything.

Know body is taking away stealth from nightblade, we just want fatigue to prevent abuse. Nightblades are not squishy anymore and tyey have better healing passives to keep them alive. Only sqiishy nightblade are the ones that want to go full dmg necause they can spam cloak for engage and disengage of combat without drawbacks.

That is the drawback. The "squishy NBs" don't build for defense so they rely on Cloak as their sole source of unique mitigation. The NBs that do build for defense and healing use the healing morph of Cloak.

I understand it's frustrating for you to fight some NBs because they can make you feel downright dumb with their tactics. It seems you may need a new strategy.

As for fatigue, it's a terrible idea for Cloak as it's not even akin to Streak.

Streak is more similar to Shadow Image:
-One is reactive, one is proactive
-Both provide mobility

Cloak is more similar to Hardened Ward:
-One hides, one absorbs
-Both provide mitigation

If...if...if...there weren't as many counters to Cloak (you know, the things that break it) as there are already, some serious thought about fatigue might be in order. For now it's a joke.

idk

NuarBlack wrote: »

idk wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.

I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.

All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.

Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.

Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.

No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.

Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.

From of hard counters for claok is that they only work on NB. If you fight a DK while use have flare and throw it on the ground, the flare does nothing for both morphs.

Evil humter both morphs while gives major savageriy we can agrre that there are other resourcse for it, low range of skill and short duration; unless you want to build for crit, this skill and it's morphs are not practical.

Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.

For detect pots if you use them, are they worth using over immovable, tri stat, or power pot? You fight with nightblade and both exhuast all resources, he claok and use powr or tri stat pot and you use detect pot, he has more resources than you and if he ran away, you wasted a pot for nothing and stick for the 30 secs of cooldown because detect portion of potion last about 15 secs.

The problem is that all mentioned hard counters above have little use outside of fighting NB. You litteraly slot a skill that is expensive mostly or use a potion with 45 sec cooldown to counter 1 skill used by 1 class only. That is a waste of slot that could be used for something more useful.

I can't fit in a hard counter for claok unless if I solely fight Nighblades, because I do fight other classes beside nightblades. As for pots, without lingering health pot, my meduim armor sorcerer can't handle all the dots, direct dmg, and ultis. Having said that, I'm only talking about myself.

I find it odd how well all this works for me and many others yet some find it easier to complain. I think that is the problem. It is easier to complain and get Zos to bring the game to your level rather than rise to it.

Oddly, I mostly use counters when I run solo so I have greater limitations. The reason I do not run counters that often when I run with my small group is because we have a smart leader and organize well. So nit picking as the post I quoted is doing makes so much less sense. If your group is poorly organized and lead maybe find a better group.

This logic cuts both ways. NBs don't want the skill ceiling raised to the same level of everyone else in which misuse of a skill is punished.

Cloak is not being misused. It is being used as intended. What we can say is being misused is the counters. Clearly some players are not using them very well.

When I am solo I hunt those sneaking around. Granted, gankers are not very skilled players and it does not take much to kill them even when they use cloak. What I enjoy are skilled players that are gusty and do more than hide in the shadows.

When they cloak game is on and being able to hunt them is what makes PvP fun. That separates those who think they can use counters and those who actually can. Of course I do not get them all the time and of course they do kill me sometimes as well. After all they are good players and use more than just cloak.

So it really seems that some want the NB nerfed so they do not have to figure out how to use the counters.

universal_wrath

brandonv516 wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

psycoprophet wrote: »

Or we all could just except the rogue class as all other rogue classes that came before it have easy access to stealth and invisiblity and are balanced around such leading to a playstyle people enjoy hence why they chose the class to begin with. Stealth always creates salt, limit it too much and it becomes not viable and when it's not viable due to how rogues are balance the class becomes not viable. Make a rogue class viable without the stealth playstyle and then it's not really a rogue archetype. I doubt these devs would nerf cloak much as it's been a staple of the nb since its conception, and besides knowing these devs soon all classes will have access to a cloak of their own lol
There's also a large difference between something being annoying to fight against and being op, I'd say more than half the cloaks OP cries are due to more annoyance than anything.

Know body is taking away stealth from nightblade, we just want fatigue to prevent abuse. Nightblades are not squishy anymore and tyey have better healing passives to keep them alive. Only sqiishy nightblade are the ones that want to go full dmg necause they can spam cloak for engage and disengage of combat without drawbacks.

That is the drawback. The "squishy NBs" don't build for defense so they rely on Cloak as their sole source of unique mitigation. The NBs that do build for defense and healing use the healing morph of Cloak.

I understand it's frustrating for you to fight some NBs because they can make you feel downright dumb with their tactics. It seems you may need a new strategy.

As for fatigue, it's a terrible idea for Cloak as it's not even akin to Streak.

Streak is more similar to Shadow Image:
-One is reactive, one is proactive
-Both provide mobility

Cloak is more similar to Hardened Ward:
-One hides, one absorbs
-Both provide mitigation

If...if...if...there weren't as many counters to Cloak (you know, the things that break it) as there are already, some serious thought about fatigue might be in order. For now it's a joke.

If cloak similar to shields, then increase its cost atleast? Because you know, shields now require resistance, health cap, and had their cost increased, and duration reduced.

By all means, I do play mag spec in pvp beside healer and even when I do, I don't use shields. I mainly play stam spec in pvp.

universal_wrath

idk wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

idk wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.

I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.

All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.

Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.

Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.

No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.

Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.

From of hard counters for claok is that they only work on NB. If you fight a DK while use have flare and throw it on the ground, the flare does nothing for both morphs.

Evil humter both morphs while gives major savageriy we can agrre that there are other resourcse for it, low range of skill and short duration; unless you want to build for crit, this skill and it's morphs are not practical.

Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.

For detect pots if you use them, are they worth using over immovable, tri stat, or power pot? You fight with nightblade and both exhuast all resources, he claok and use powr or tri stat pot and you use detect pot, he has more resources than you and if he ran away, you wasted a pot for nothing and stick for the 30 secs of cooldown because detect portion of potion last about 15 secs.

The problem is that all mentioned hard counters above have little use outside of fighting NB. You litteraly slot a skill that is expensive mostly or use a potion with 45 sec cooldown to counter 1 skill used by 1 class only. That is a waste of slot that could be used for something more useful.

I can't fit in a hard counter for claok unless if I solely fight Nighblades, because I do fight other classes beside nightblades. As for pots, without lingering health pot, my meduim armor sorcerer can't handle all the dots, direct dmg, and ultis. Having said that, I'm only talking about myself.

I find it odd how well all this works for me and many others yet some find it easier to complain. I think that is the problem. It is easier to complain and get Zos to bring the game to your level rather than rise to it.

Oddly, I mostly use counters when I run solo so I have greater limitations. The reason I do not run counters that often when I run with my small group is because we have a smart leader and organize well. So nit picking as the post I quoted is doing makes so much less sense. If your group is poorly organized and lead maybe find a better group.

This logic cuts both ways. NBs don't want the skill ceiling raised to the same level of everyone else in which misuse of a skill is punished.

Cloak is not being misused. It is being used as intended. What we can say is being misused is the counters. Clearly some players are not using them very well.

When I am solo I hunt those sneaking around. Granted, gankers are not very skilled players and it does not take much to kill them even when they use cloak. What I enjoy are skilled players that are gusty and do more than hide in the shadows.

When they cloak game is on and being able to hunt them is what makes PvP fun. That separates those who think they can use counters and those who actually can. Of course I do not get them all the time and of course they do kill me sometimes as well. After all they are good players and use more than just cloak.

So it really seems that some want the NB nerfed so they do not have to figure out how to use the counters.

It is not intended to be used 100% of the time. Play a death match in BG and check how many nightblades in thier, say 4 for example. You begin the match you move and see 1 dk alone, you try to fight him when you teamate and you get ganked by his fellow 2 nighblades how were cloaking somewere around him. Try to rematch and use detec pot, now there is no nightblades or maybe they are range specs and you pot is useless. You die and spawn and get down from the base, you walk 2 meters and you die, because they are waiting on spawn point and you try to tell you mate and they come to help, but nobody is their, the nightblades are long gone. Another nightblade is going on and off from stealth to get that joicy 100% garnteed crit strike while spaming snipe or elemtal weapon.

For a skill that is supposed to be used a defense, it offer too much offensive advantage.

idk

universal_wrath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

idk wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

It does far too much. It should not suppress already applied DoT tics. Learn to purge and pick your fights like every other class has to. You want instant stealth, a guranteed crit and have incomming projectiles be forced to miss thats alot on its own but supressing already applied DoTs is far too powerful.

I get into a fight with a NB. I land a few DoTs on the NB. The NB should have to do more to counter that than use the 1 size fits all skill of cloak. Bought to land that big finishing skill....NB cloaks. Bought to let DoTs and smart fighting finish off the NB...NB cloaks, bought to let the guards finish off the nb.....NB cloaks.

All i hear from NBs is cloak has counters and that the burden is on every other non NB class to counter cloak. Using multiple tactics ,including the impraticalness of a potion against a class that always gets the 1st combo, but for NBs cloak is the only counter they need for every other class and fight.

Purge got a buff and now NBs need to make sacrifices. Want to use the easiest guranteed get away cloak + teleport....well if DoTs are already applied the NB should purge 1st.

Its not even close how much stronger cloak + teleport is to every other defensive mechanic in the game.

No offense but you complain because people mention how effective counters are yet you say nothing that you actually try to use the hard counters to cloak other than say one of them is impractical. I do not find countering cloak all that challenging. In fact I enjoy encounters with skilled NBs that are good at evading because it is so rare.

Further, your all for NBs to get nerfed because purge got a buff lacks any logic. They have nothing to do with each other.

From of hard counters for claok is that they only work on NB. If you fight a DK while use have flare and throw it on the ground, the flare does nothing for both morphs.

Evil humter both morphs while gives major savageriy we can agrre that there are other resourcse for it, low range of skill and short duration; unless you want to build for crit, this skill and it's morphs are not practical.

Inner light has a nice morph that is actually a counter for claok that reduced sneak attack by 50% and prevent stun from sneak as well as longer duration and range.

For detect pots if you use them, are they worth using over immovable, tri stat, or power pot? You fight with nightblade and both exhuast all resources, he claok and use powr or tri stat pot and you use detect pot, he has more resources than you and if he ran away, you wasted a pot for nothing and stick for the 30 secs of cooldown because detect portion of potion last about 15 secs.

The problem is that all mentioned hard counters above have little use outside of fighting NB. You litteraly slot a skill that is expensive mostly or use a potion with 45 sec cooldown to counter 1 skill used by 1 class only. That is a waste of slot that could be used for something more useful.

I can't fit in a hard counter for claok unless if I solely fight Nighblades, because I do fight other classes beside nightblades. As for pots, without lingering health pot, my meduim armor sorcerer can't handle all the dots, direct dmg, and ultis. Having said that, I'm only talking about myself.

I find it odd how well all this works for me and many others yet some find it easier to complain. I think that is the problem. It is easier to complain and get Zos to bring the game to your level rather than rise to it.

Oddly, I mostly use counters when I run solo so I have greater limitations. The reason I do not run counters that often when I run with my small group is because we have a smart leader and organize well. So nit picking as the post I quoted is doing makes so much less sense. If your group is poorly organized and lead maybe find a better group.

This logic cuts both ways. NBs don't want the skill ceiling raised to the same level of everyone else in which misuse of a skill is punished.

Cloak is not being misused. It is being used as intended. What we can say is being misused is the counters. Clearly some players are not using them very well.

When I am solo I hunt those sneaking around. Granted, gankers are not very skilled players and it does not take much to kill them even when they use cloak. What I enjoy are skilled players that are gusty and do more than hide in the shadows.

When they cloak game is on and being able to hunt them is what makes PvP fun. That separates those who think they can use counters and those who actually can. Of course I do not get them all the time and of course they do kill me sometimes as well. After all they are good players and use more than just cloak.

So it really seems that some want the NB nerfed so they do not have to figure out how to use the counters.

It is not intended to be used 100% of the time. Play a death match in BG and check how many nightblades in thier, say 4 for example. You begin the match you move and see 1 dk alone, you try to fight him when you teamate and you get ganked by his fellow 2 nighblades how were cloaking somewere around him. Try to rematch and use detec pot, now there is no nightblades or maybe they are range specs and you pot is useless. You die and spawn and get down from the base, you walk 2 meters and you die, because they are waiting on spawn point and you try to tell you mate and they come to help, but nobody is their, the nightblades are long gone. Another nightblade is going on and off from stealth to get that joicy 100% garnteed crit strike while spaming snipe or elemtal weapon.

For a skill that is supposed to be used a defense, it offer too much offensive advantage.

You do realize that the DK can still have 3 players in sneak around them. As a vamp I can move pretty at a decent pace when in sneak.

And in all of that you forgot to use your counter or even tried to explain how challenging it is to use a counter because of one thing or another.

I guess we can just nerf everything to make people happy. Once that is done and the game is much less challenging to play we will rename the game ESWoW.

Cerotonin

Play a NightBlade. You’ll see that maintaining cloak isn’t that easy when there are so many ways to get pulled out of it. It isn’t comparable to streak. Streak stuns (UNBLOCKABLE) and moves you faster. You can’t stay in cloak if you sprint or roll-dodge.

Vlad9425

EdoKeledus wrote: »

It's funny how every nightblade are
offended when the subject is about cloak, doing their best to save their stupid skill but they have all of them asked for wings nerf since day one.

Streak : changed
Wings : changed
Damage Shield : changed
Cloak: has to be changed (fatigue is fine)

stop with the hypocrisy.

Let me tell you what hypocrisy is. People who don’t play a certain class and have no idea how a class plays going on the forums and asking for nerfs to that class when they haven’t got a clue about that class at all. Cloak already has so many counters that most people who actually play PVP know to use. It’s not hypocrisy to tell you people the truth about some of the idiotic suggestions made on here.

Idinuse

...

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.

Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.


Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.

Same for cloak.

Very much the opposite.

• Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation
  
• Streak is the escape/fight reset. Cloak is the escape/fight reset.
  

Cloak should have fatigue just like Streak.

You make a good case that shields should have increased costs when stacked and use in a row, same like roll dodge is doing now, I think this is a good thing, shield costs increase if used stacked good idea mate

Sure if Shields get a 100% mitigation for the duration just like dodge is a 100% mit. FFS you people...

Bosov

They arent even the same type of skill. Cloak is the nightblade their class defense skill while streak is more of a class kite skill. If anything streak should be compared to the nb shade.

The main class defense of a sorc is their shield. If cloak gets a fatique than so should so a sorc shield. Cloak already has loads of counters yet the only counter to a shield is negate? Yes you can destroy a shield but a sorc can put it back up just as quick.

Bosov

Idinuse wrote: »

...

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.

Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.


Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.

Same for cloak.

Very much the opposite.

• Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation
  
• Streak is the escape/fight reset. Cloak is the escape/fight reset.
  

Cloak should have fatigue just like Streak.

You make a good case that shields should have increased costs when stacked and use in a row, same like roll dodge is doing now, I think this is a good thing, shield costs increase if used stacked good idea mate

Sure if Shields get a 100% mitigation for the duration just like dodge is a 100% mit. FFS you people...

Your shield is giving your healthbar 100% damage mitigation though.

Also dodge roll isnt working very well against no counterplay skills like curse, dots, fossilize and many more. Having a shield up prevents your healtbar to be damaged by those skills.

zParallaxz

Bosov wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

...

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Streak for sorcs > is what dodgeroll is for nightblades.

Shields for sorcs> is what cloak is for nightblades.


Want to know why there's no cost fatigue on shields? Because it's an awful idea.

Same for cloak.

Very much the opposite.

• Shield is the damage avoidance/mitigation. Dodgeroll is the damage avoidance/mitigation
  
• Streak is the escape/fight reset. Cloak is the escape/fight reset.
  

Cloak should have fatigue just like Streak.

You make a good case that shields should have increased costs when stacked and use in a row, same like roll dodge is doing now, I think this is a good thing, shield costs increase if used stacked good idea mate

Sure if Shields get a 100% mitigation for the duration just like dodge is a 100% mit. FFS you people...

Your shield is giving your healthbar 100% damage mitigation though.

Also dodge roll isnt working very well against no counterplay skills like curse, dots, fossilize and many more. Having a shield up prevents your healtbar to be damaged by those skills.

You realize the sorc wasn’t the only class to shield stack right. I’ve seen the same nightblades who complain about Sorc shield stacking lose to magdks who don’t use s&b but a resto and shield stack with healing ward and annulment. The difference between skillful shield stacking and cloak is someone can out damage a person who is shield stack within 2-3 secs. The same cannot be applied to someone in cloak because they suppress dots, are able to heal and rebuff, reposition, and avoid incoming targetable attacks for 2-3 seconds.

In my opinion a good amount of nightblades are biased. They will be the people advocating against nerfs to cloak claiming it their class defining ability and that their is many counters to it. But then will say nerf wings ( class defining ability) because they can’t spam ranged attacks with no drawbacks, will say nerf sorcs shields because their too strong ( sorcs only source of defense is mainly shields, again another class defining ability), etc.. I would be all for leaving cloak alone but at the same time the game has came down on other classes and their special abilities.

BaByDontHurtMe

Just use more dots on em.

Bunny_guar

I'm a MagSorc, and I think cloak is fine.

But please, for the Divines sake, add fatigue to gap closers.

Streak-gap close-streak-gap close.

Only difference is streak cost is vamped up for every usage within four seconds, whilst gap closers cost remain the same.

universal_wrath

CeroSerotonin wrote: »

Play a NightBlade. You’ll see that maintaining cloak isn’t that easy when there are so many ways to get pulled out of it. It isn’t comparable to streak. Streak stuns (UNBLOCKABLE) and moves you faster. You can’t stay in cloak if you sprint or roll-dodge.

But I do play stamblade and I find it easy to maintain cloak in and out of fights. I alway laugh at people when I fight them with my stamblade. Only time I get screwed is when I play against coordinated groups. Sometimes people do use detect pot do spams spiked armor, but I already have my shade in a safe spot just in case.

A friend of mine started playing the game 8 months ago and he only plays stamblade, he started playing stamden 2 weeks before scalebreaker pts. He left the game after scalebreaker because zos did not change cloak. He said the it is OP even if he used and he wanted to play another a glass canon build on another class but it does not even compare how easy it is on nightblade. Played with him 3 time against zergs in imperial city and he was one of the best stamblade I have seen. He gets in groups and kill 1 or 2 and cloak out if discovered he use shade out. Full meduim armor, full divine. Only saw him die once because of boss aoe in imperial city. He tried to play full divine meduim armor on his stamden and he alway gets bursted down by almost everyone.

universal_wrath

BaByDontHurtMe wrote: »

Just use more dots on em.

Cloak negate single target dot. Only ground dots works on them. More dot single target dot will not do anything against nightbladescwhen they cloak. Also aoe attacks are 33% weaker and cost 33% more and can easily be move away from. It is supposed to be a dot meta on all classes except nightblades who cloak.

universal_wrath

Bunny_guar wrote: »

I'm a MagSorc, and I think cloak is fine.

But please, for the Divines sake, add fatigue to gap closers.

Streak-gap close-streak-gap close.

Only difference is streak cost is vamped up for every usage within four seconds, whilst gap closers cost remain the same.

(But streak is op and does not have any counters like cloak) says someone who never used gap closers or range attacked in their lives.

idk

Bunny_guar wrote: »

I'm a MagSorc, and I think cloak is fine.

But please, for the Divines sake, add fatigue to gap closers.

Streak-gap close-streak-gap close.

Only difference is streak cost is vamped up for every usage within four seconds, whilst gap closers cost remain the same.

I rarely get caught when streaking. I find it much easier to get away from even a decent player using streak than using cloak. If the player is half decent they are more likely than not to pull me out of cloak.

TheBonesXXX

universal_wrath wrote: »

BaByDontHurtMe wrote: »

Just use more dots on em.

Cloak negate single target dot. Only ground dots works on them. More dot single target dot will not do anything against nightbladescwhen they cloak. Also aoe attacks are 33% weaker and cost 33% more and can easily be move away from. It is supposed to be a dot meta on all classes except nightblades who cloak.

I can list all the skills and sets that pull NBs out of cloak.

Unfathomable Darkness being my personal favourite.

universal_wrath

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

BaByDontHurtMe wrote: »

Just use more dots on em.

Cloak negate single target dot. Only ground dots works on them. More dot single target dot will not do anything against nightbladescwhen they cloak. Also aoe attacks are 33% weaker and cost 33% more and can easily be move away from. It is supposed to be a dot meta on all classes except nightblades who cloak.

I can list all the skills and sets that pull NBs out of cloak.

Unfathomable Darkness being my personal favourite.

Please do list them and he how practical they are in combat outside from finding nightblades. As for unfathomable darkness, I'm pretty sure it's a bug that will be fixed sometime in the future.

HowlKimchi

universal_wrath wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

BaByDontHurtMe wrote: »

Just use more dots on em.

Cloak negate single target dot. Only ground dots works on them. More dot single target dot will not do anything against nightbladescwhen they cloak. Also aoe attacks are 33% weaker and cost 33% more and can easily be move away from. It is supposed to be a dot meta on all classes except nightblades who cloak.

I can list all the skills and sets that pull NBs out of cloak.

Unfathomable Darkness being my personal favourite.

Please do list them and he how practical they are in combat outside from finding nightblades. As for unfathomable darkness, I'm pretty sure it's a bug that will be fixed sometime in the future.

Really, practicality?

On my magblade, slotting magelight is already very useful even if not fighting against nightblades. It increases my shield strength and damage because of the extra magicka, and it gives me major prophecy.

On my magplar, sweeps with various snares are already enough to catch nightblades

On my magsorc, I have streak, which is so practical I dont even think I need to say why. Also boundless storm.

On my stamsorc, I have hurricane, which is a huge aoe on the fastest class in-game.

All of these are pretty useful even when not fighting nightblades, wouldn't you agree?

Finally, there's the good 'ol detect pot on my back pocket.

Of course each of these have varying degrees of reliability, and none of them are effective 100% of the time, otherwise slotting cloak would be useless if it's a dead skill. IMO cloak is very effective when fighting scrubs, but you also have to know how to survive without it because good people know how to reveal cloaked NBs. You'd be surprised how many nightblades just try to spam cloak and die while im on top of them with magelight.

Why are people even arguing about this even. Streak and cloak and even dodge rolls are totally different mechanics each with pros and cons. you cant compare then 1 to 1 like a lot of people are doing here. Each of them have counters, and each have variable usefulness depending on the situation. You have to compare whole classes to balance, and not just compare skills one to one.

If every skill in this game worked the same, then why have different classes in the first place?