[AND AGAIN!] REMOVE PREMADES FROM BATTLEGROUNDS QUEUE!

JusticeSouldier

Remove, than think what to do after.
Simplest possible solution.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_BrianWheeler what are u thinking for so many years???
@ZOS_Gilliam u especially, played bgs as a raw player, u saw that from inside...wtf?

This change will give u incredibly huge amount of reputation points.
it's the most valuable pvp improvement u can do at a nearest future.

Austinseph1

Make your own? They probably figured it was simple enough to figure it out.

JusticeSouldier

Austinseph1 wrote: »

Make your own? They probably figured it was simple enough to figure it out.

Ok dude, tell me please how u can provide My group to fight vs another premade groups each match in such case?
Come on, dear Devil's lawyer, tell me how?

I don't want to kill not organized randoms as a part of premade same as to be killed as random with a premade.
Is it clear?

MakeMeUhSamich

Band Name: Devil’s Lawyer

\m/

Vortigaunt

I’ve been advocating for this ever since BGs became no cp again. It’s hell to play on PC EU in the highest mmr lol

yodased

Not enough population you would just be fighting the same people every time, everything that will make BGs better requires a massive investment from the playerbase into BGs to justify putting any money into it.

It's a bit of a catch-22 because without fixes people don't want to BG, but without people BG they won't fix it.

Vortigaunt

yodased wrote: »

Not enough population you would just be fighting the same people every time, everything that will make BGs better requires a massive investment from the playerbase into BGs to justify putting any money into it.

It's a bit of a catch-22 because without fixes people don't want to BG, but without people BG they won't fix it.

No you wouldn’t. The premade heroes would be forced to play solo for games, and the premade queue would be nice for syncing up organized 4v4v4 events or whatever.

Population in BGs is more than fine, even at high MMR. The thing that makes pops seem like they take ages are the premade heroes who are never seen playing solo, because the game is trying to matchmake them against other premades but gives up and just throws everyone in together.

Royalthought

I'd support having a separate queue for premades and solo players.

The solo queue would be fast. the premade queue is all that would be slow.

iCaliban

Royalthought wrote: »

I'd support having a separate queue for premades and solo players.

The solo queue would be fast. the premade queue is all that would be slow.

Premades already wait 30-45 minutes for a match. Separating them entirely would just make sure they never got a match. The LAST thing zos should do is punish players for playing together even more than they already do.

NO to the op. Get better. Ive played thousands of battlegrounds, many against premades, stop crying about them.

JusticeSouldier

Royalthought wrote: »

I'd support having a separate queue for premades and solo players.

The solo queue would be fast. the premade queue is all that would be slow.

i guess they can't do that. so ask to remove premade option at all until they will be able.

yodased

Vortigaunt wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Not enough population you would just be fighting the same people every time, everything that will make BGs better requires a massive investment from the playerbase into BGs to justify putting any money into it.

It's a bit of a catch-22 because without fixes people don't want to BG, but without people BG they won't fix it.

No you wouldn’t. The premade heroes would be forced to play solo for games, and the premade queue would be nice for syncing up organized 4v4v4 events or whatever.

Population in BGs is more than fine, even at high MMR. The thing that makes pops seem like they take ages are the premade heroes who are never seen playing solo, because the game is trying to matchmake them against other premades but gives up and just throws everyone in together.

Which means the population is not good enough to handle the premades against premades lol.

If there are randoms against premades then that means that there are not enough 4mans to fight each other.

That seems pretty basic to me, but maybe I'm missing something. The people who want to queue for 4 mans will continue to do so and they will just fight each other over and over and over and the single players will have a better time I guess.

So this means that you are reducing the people who spent the time to make a group and play together from being able to play together because they are better than you and your pug squad.

These "premade heroes" don't have to play solo, they have a team and you are telling them that they are less important than people who want to queue solo.

If there was enough population of people playing battlegrounds to separate out premade groups or 2v2v2v2v2 or any other way, they would have already.

Everyone is an armchair developer though and know how many people are playing the game though because reasons.

ccmedaddy

Agreed. Not having to wait 10+ mins for every match during prime time would be nice as well.

Royalthought

iCaliban wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

I'd support having a separate queue for premades and solo players.

The solo queue would be fast. the premade queue is all that would be slow.

Premades already wait 30-45 minutes for a match. Separating them entirely would just make sure they never got a match. The LAST thing zos should do is punish players for playing together even more than they already do.

NO to the op. Get better. Ive played thousands of battlegrounds, many against premades, stop crying about them.

It should be premades vs premades.

Solo players vs solo players.

If your premade waits 30-45 minutes and end up against solo queue randoms, I feel greater sympathy for the randoms.

Trenia

Premades ruin the experience for eight other players.

JusticeSouldier

yodased wrote: »

These "premade heroes" don't have to play solo, they have a team and you are telling them that they are less important than people who want to queue solo.

We. should. not. think. about. psychopaths who's enjoy is to stomp randoms instead real fights.
Same as we shouldn't care about needs of froudsters, killers or another criminal elements in real world.
it's a headpain for devs as rulemakers for future, if there is not enouch premades for fullfilled separated queue.
It's their full respoinsibility.
How to encourage another people come into it when it will be created.
But now best solution i think is to deny premade groups at all in queue for bgs.

Few years in a raw, battlegrounds doesn't provide competition.
Population can't grow in such coordinates.
At least, healthy population.
Unfair, no competition, no real challenge.
I hope, Devs really wan't to move in that healthy direction they talked about many times

Vortigaunt

yodased wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Not enough population you would just be fighting the same people every time, everything that will make BGs better requires a massive investment from the playerbase into BGs to justify putting any money into it.

It's a bit of a catch-22 because without fixes people don't want to BG, but without people BG they won't fix it.

No you wouldn’t. The premade heroes would be forced to play solo for games, and the premade queue would be nice for syncing up organized 4v4v4 events or whatever.

Population in BGs is more than fine, even at high MMR. The thing that makes pops seem like they take ages are the premade heroes who are never seen playing solo, because the game is trying to matchmake them against other premades but gives up and just throws everyone in together.

Which means the population is not good enough to handle the premades against premades lol.

If there are randoms against premades then that means that there are not enough 4mans to fight each other.

That seems pretty basic to me, but maybe I'm missing something. The people who want to queue for 4 mans will continue to do so and they will just fight each other over and over and over and the single players will have a better time I guess.

So this means that you are reducing the people who spent the time to make a group and play together from being able to play together because they are better than you and your pug squad.

These "premade heroes" don't have to play solo, they have a team and you are telling them that they are less important than people who want to queue solo.

If there was enough population of people playing battlegrounds to separate out premade groups or 2v2v2v2v2 or any other way, they would have already.

Everyone is an armchair developer though and know how many people are playing the game though because reasons.

I’d rather have the population not be able to handle premade queues if that meant the solo queues would flourish (and they would). Once you have a healthy solo queue, even if the premade queue is dead (which it wouldn’t be, there are too many *** tier players that couldn’t play alone to save their life), you can still use it for events and such.

Urzigurumash

Let's add a Royal Rumble mode first. Not Battle Royale, Royal Rumble. You go in alone, you get 1 life, see how long you last. You die, on to the next. Solo queue only.

Wouldn't breaking up the general Battlegrounds queue into strictly 1 man or 4 man queue leave out 2 or 3 man teams? That's not quite ideal. It would be impossible for a 3 man team to be matched with a solo player.

Death Match can be extremely unpleasant for a solo player against a good premade, but how often as a solo player have you been teamed up with a StamSorc or StamDen that just squirrels away to their instant death without any regard for their teammates? These sorts of players would probably much prefer a Royal Rumble.

Urzigurumash

Overall, my thoughts regarding Death Match - it's not the builds, it's not the premades, it's the nature of the mode. The builds and premades are a symptom. The mode is inherently unbalanced and excruciating. Adjust the rinks, adjust the scoring, add some new modes, something, but telling 3 man teams to go find something else to do doesn't seem like a good solution to me.

Some Battlegrounds builds are broken, but not in all 3 Game Types, and we should not want these players to have their playstyle decimated due to the inherently unbalanced nature of Death Match disposition and scoring.

Vortigaunt

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Overall, my thoughts regarding Death Match - it's not the builds, it's not the premades, it's the nature of the mode. The builds and premades are a symptom. The mode is inherently unbalanced and excruciating. Adjust the rinks, adjust the scoring, add some new modes, something, but telling 3 man teams to go find something else to do doesn't seem like a good solution to me.

Some Battlegrounds builds are broken, but not in all 3 Game Types, and we should not want these players to have their playstyle decimated due to the inherently unbalanced nature of Death Match disposition and scoring.

Deathmatch is fine. It’s what like 9/10 people who do BGs prefer. The problem lies in people going in with a 4 man tank stack rotating heal ults. That’s literally not fun.

Urzigurumash

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Deathmatch is fine. It’s what like 9/10 people who do BGs prefer. The problem lies in people going in with a 4 man tank stack rotating heal ults. That’s literally not fun.

They prefer it in the absence of another similar mode, and I do not think the numerous complaints about premades are about Flag and Land games.

JusticeSouldier

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Overall, my thoughts regarding Death Match - it's not the builds, it's not the premades, it's the nature of the mode. The builds and premades are a symptom.

Premade vs random group is an issue, not matter what mode we have.
Voice-coordinated, pre-orginized with builds and roles team will win in 95% of cases.
It can loose only if randoms are like 10x more experienced and were lucky to get good combination of characters and builds from system.
How good is or not Deathmatch mode is a topic for another thread.

Urzigurumash

@JusticeSouldier

True, but I guess my point is if there were another mode which rewarded good Solo play, we might all find this issue less painful. This would add something to BGs, rather than taking something away.

Urzigurumash

However, adjusting the scoring is another option. We all know healing is way under-rewarded, and there's practically 0 scoring motivation in Death Match to try and "tank", i.e. buff and debuff. In fact the best way to try and make use of these skills is through being part of a premade. In this manner, it gives premades an unfair advantage not necessarily related to them being premade - healers and true tanks are extremely rare as solo queuers, because they are not rewarded with points.

JusticeSouldier

Urzigurumash wrote: »

@JusticeSouldier

True, but I guess my point is if there were another mode which rewarded good Solo play, we might all find this issue less painful. This would add something to BGs, rather than taking something away.

Actually i don't wan't to take something away, my goal is to deny premade option temporarily for a period Devs can create another special queue, and than we will have 2 options-choices rather than 1 without choice.
At a long distance it's a way to make game wide, filled, respectfull.

Insco851

Sure you can stop premades when we can vote you out the match for bringing your trash solo NB to the group! Agreed!?

OR

Go into the match, get slapped by a premade, invite the good player that stood out on the team to a group, until you have 4 folks worth playing with.

Urzigurumash

@Insco851

Kick feature would be nice, but it would probably increase the amount of people spawning into an already losing team, which nobody much likes to do, don't you think?

@JusticeSouldier

What are your thoughts on adding something like the Dungeon Roles in BGs queue to ensure every team got a healer? I think this is a very good idea, although scoring would have to be adjusted to motivate more to roll BG healers

ChunkyCat

DEATH TO ALL PREMADES!

in a deathmatch

JusticeSouldier

Urzigurumash wrote: »

@Insco851

Kick feature would be nice, but it would probably increase the amount of people spawning into an already losing team, which nobody much likes to do, don't you think?

@JusticeSouldier

What are your thoughts on adding something like the Dungeon Roles in BGs queue to ensure every team got a healer? I think this is a very good idea, although scoring would have to be adjusted to motivate more to roll BG healers

Not sure pve-roles are relevant for bgs but i thought about like "characteristics", which we could set up when queue to better match up with others.
Like heal/resourses support, some branches of debuffs or buffs provider, pure berserker, "robust target-skeleton" etc etc.
With an virtual score of each...Complicated thing
Guess it's an extremly big challenge for Zenimax programmers, i'm not sure they able to do that to be honest.
And if can how they will get financial feedback from this.
But it could be cool.

Maybe we can also operate with pve roles for simplicity, with indicating like grades of healing, tanking, damage delivery potential of the character when queue. But people should be encouraged to like support others to fill the queue with all roles equal. With sufficient rewards

Urzigurumash

Right, that's so complicated, just adding the same method used for the Dungeon Queue might suffice to close the gap between solo and premade teams. I think over time it would come to be understood what the expectation is for somebody choosing that specific role, just as it is in Dungeons - but these roles would not be identical to their Dungeon counterpart.

Vortigaunt

Insco851 wrote: »

Sure you can stop premades when we can vote you out the match for bringing your trash solo NB to the group! Agreed!?

OR

Go into the match, get slapped by a premade, invite the good player that stood out on the team to a group, until you have 4 folks worth playing with.

Or, you get good and stop crutching on premades and learn how to carry games solo. Just a thought. Best games I ever have are late at night when it’s mosty solos in the queue.

Urzigurumash

To summarize, rather than eliminating or diminishing a form of group play from the game, we might

- Add a free-for-all mode of some sort for competitive Solo play

- Adjust scoring and medals to better reward healing and group buffing in Death Match

- Copy the Dungeon Finder roles for Solo queue, to better ensure a random group has the means necessary to handle a pre-made, and that random teams are better balanced against each other

This could work if an adjustment to the scoring in Death Match resulted in an increase of the population of Healers in BGs.

Would there be a downside to this, besides the elimination of random teams composed entirely of characters focused entirely on dealing their own damage? Would not a player who particularly enjoyed this find equal enjoyment in a free-for-all mode?