How do you deal with incapable people in vet dungeons and trials?

GarnetFire17

Leave

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

How about using your superior knowledge of the game to teach them how to do it better?

The answer is usually go get better gear and go practice animation canceling and rotation a target dummy. It doesn't really help in the middle of a dungeon if the guy is doing 7k dps in a vet DLC dungeon.

Cortimi

I love how "low CP tanks" is listed. So you just make a snap judgment as soon as the group is formed and know all you need to know by the number next to their name right?

I have already tanked all dungeons on Vet, by CP200, including the ones I had to walk my happy ass in to because the queue finder wouldn't let me in because it too thought I couldn't handle it.

Know how?

Because I know WTF I'm doing, have appropriate gear, and came from another server where I'm a max CP tank. All of which you wouldn't know taking a look at the CP next to my name.

The only people I kick from dungeons are spoiled, entitled, impatient pricks.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Other

It depends,
If they're trying and are just new at the dungeon I'll help them, carry them, give them advice, etc. i'll stay with them until the end. But if they're being jerks who blame everyone else for their inabilities to function in a team, I just leave.

Chrysa1is

Other

Be patient, teach them the mechanics or what is required. If there is no improvement, then politely explain why it may be best for them not to participate any longer in the interest of the group.

Kingslayer513

Other

Dungeons and trials are worlds apart. People get kicked from vet trials in a heartbeat if they faked their role. With dungeons I try to stick it out unless it's obviously impossible for the group comp.

Goregrinder

Cortimi wrote: »

I love how "low CP tanks" is listed. So you just make a snap judgment as soon as the group is formed and know all you need to know by the number next to their name right?

I have already tanked all dungeons on Vet, by CP200, including the ones I had to walk my happy ass in to because the queue finder wouldn't let me in because it too thought I couldn't handle it.

Know how?

Because I know WTF I'm doing, have appropriate gear, and came from another server where I'm a max CP tank. All of which you wouldn't know taking a look at the CP next to my name.

The only people I kick from dungeons are spoiled, entitled, impatient pricks.

Yup that's literally what he does, judges based on CP.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Stick with them

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

How about using your superior knowledge of the game to teach them how to do it better?

First trial I ever did someone I had only played a few times in PVP with tried to get me to redo my set up because “it wouldn’t work”. I basically told him, let’s run this and we’ll see. He VERY reluctantly agreed.

We ended up clearing the trial. I died zero times and helped quite a bit. The only thing I needed to be “carried” through were mechanics that I didn’t know and that was solved simply by saying “hey, if I’m gonna die by the falling axe of doom please just let me know first”. They did, and I didn’t die.

At the end of the trial the guy apologized to me. I thanked him for being a man about being wrong and simply told him to judge people after you play with them, not before.

oddbasket

Stick with them

I've always stuck around be it low cp or fake tanks or healers. I've once loaded into the end boss of vet Banished Cells II and stuck around for 40 minutes until the team passed.

That said, having my cp behind me made it easier to choose to help instead of leaving. The experience is different with group finder when you have a team of low cp with fake tanks and healers and it is still going to be frustrating

VDoom1

Stick with them

Teach them we must. When I find myself in a dungeon or trial and others don't know what to do I just explain it. Doesn't take long and everyone is happy.

FearlessOne_2014

Leave

These days since I only queue as Healer if magicka character, tank if stamina character. I simply look at combat metrics and the clear speed of the group with the first few add pulls. If they are below my liking I simply leave and deal with the 15 minute penalty while farming nodes.

My entertainment time is for me. I don't mind teaching newplayers the ropes. However I dare say about 90% can't or refuse to be taught. Most just give me the "It's my game I play how I want" speech. So now unless it's a guildmate THAT IS IN VOICE COMMS. WITH ME. I simply just leave and give little cares, how random people perceive me as in a video game.

After all knew they was coming in to get carried. Without any consideration for others. So why should I be bothered with that. They should be happy that I don't kick them from group.

But again that is exactly why I have a tank or healer spec for all of my characters. So I can get fast queues and be able to perform my duties as a tank or healer.

I don't care if people choose to villanize me for such. Chances are I'm villanizing them for making me 15 minutes late. Then there is always to option to get a pre-made group in discord.

This is why I wish ZOS just get rid of the current LFG queuer. And give us a player driven party finder tool, like in GW2. Not to mention in GW2 you don't get a 15 minute penalty for leaving a failed from the start group.

JarlUlfric

Other

I try to inform and teach. If after understanding mechanics they are not capable then kicking is what has to be done. Or if they are unwilling to take advice then kicking is what has to be done.

One of the things that ticks me off the most in this community is certain groups have this willful ignorance of knowing that what they're doing isn't efficient but they want to play the way they do because of the "play how you want" mantra that the game has around it.

I don't have an issue with 'play how you want' as long as your play is not affecting my own. If you go into a vet DLC dungeon or vet trial you should be ready for it, in terms of damage, gear, and knowledge of mechanics, but like I said the willingness to teach should be the first course of action.

But with the willingness to teach, the person taught also has to be willing to learn, which isn't always the case.

Fur_like_snow

Kick them

Bye boi! 👋🏻

kylewwefan

Curse them

With a little voodoo doll. And ram spaghetti through their tiny little hands.

Marginis

Other

Try to talk to them, if that doesn't work, assume they're at least listening and try to guide them, if that doesn't work, make their life painful so they leave on their own, if that doesn't work, leave because I don't have enough free time to waste it on randoms being intentionally bad or so bad they don't even realize how bad they are.

Thannazzar

Other

If they don't know tactics remind them to tell people at the start of a run and guide them through it.

If they don't know basics: ie
1. Are using Stam sets on a mag character.
2. Dpsing with a sword and shield.
3. Tanking without a taunt.
4. Healing without a resto staff.
5. Don't listen to tactics.

Then they get kicked.

SidraWillowsky

Stick with them

Cortimi wrote: »

I love how "low CP tanks" is listed. So you just make a snap judgment as soon as the group is formed and know all you need to know by the number next to their name right?

I have already tanked all dungeons on Vet, by CP200, including the ones I had to walk my happy ass in to because the queue finder wouldn't let me in because it too thought I couldn't handle it.

Know how?

Because I know WTF I'm doing, have appropriate gear, and came from another server where I'm a max CP tank. All of which you wouldn't know taking a look at the CP next to my name.

The only people I kick from dungeons are spoiled, entitled, impatient pricks.

This happened the other day... I was in vet Direfrost with a CP 140 or something tank. Another player started going off on them, saying they wouldn't finish the final boss, just being a general jerk... the tank had zero issues with the final boss. With tanks especially, I don't find low CP to be an issue as long as they know what they're doing.

Re. this poll- I don't like to think of other players as "incompetent" or "incapable"... just people who probably need more guidance than ZOS gives and may not know how to even ask for it, or that they need it. I'll throw out a few tips here and there if that appears to be the case and it's always been met with gratitude. A guildie and I ran Darkshade I with a level 40-somethinger a few weeks ago and I gave him some pointers when he appeared to be struggling. They seemed to help a lot and he was really grateful and actually ended up joining the guild because he thought we were so nice and helpful.

A little kindness/compassion goes a long way vs. writing people off...

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

My entertainment time is for me. I don't mind teaching newplayers the ropes. However I dare say about 90% can't or refuse to be taught. Most just give me the "It's my game I play how I want" speech. So now unless it's a guildmate THAT IS IN VOICE COMMS. WITH ME. I simply just leave and give little cares, how random people perceive me as in a video game.

I am not dismissing or questioning your experiences whatsoever, but I feel like my experience has been the exact opposite- 10% of pugs I've played with are terrible and the other 90% are really nice. As a result, I've become MORE likely to go out of my way to help someone.

Froil

Other

A combination of kick (if they're truly god awful or toxic), curse them under my breath, leave if more than one is terrible and they're grouped together (i.e. friends) and, if I've time to waste and don't care what I'm doing, stick with them.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Stick with them

This thread gave me PTSD and reminded me of why I generally just PVP, quest or do normal dungeons solo. On top of my trial note I just spoke about, I just remembered the first time I ever queued for a dungeon. I was roughly VR5 - it was a long time ago - as a healer. Yes, I was a BoL bot at the time. I honestly didn’t know any better.

The tank died once on a boss and then started sending me ridiculous messages, way worse than anything I’ve ever gotten in game - not as bad as the death threat I got on here once but bad - about how essentially I should end my own life over his lack of stamina.

I ended up not playing another dungeon for probably a year ... which was probably that trial story. I still have not queued up for a public run in about the 3+ years since.

Say what you will about PVP but I’ve never had these types of things happen in Cyrodiil.

Glurin

Really depends on how they are behaving. If they're honestly trying and not insulting anyone but just don't have the skills or gear or something, then you try to help them out as best you can.

If they're being an ass about it, kick em and be done with it.

Starlock

Stick with them

I don't do vet content very often. When I do, I'm going to be tanking. Most importantly, I'm not a competitive gamer. This means that I do not conceptualize other players as "incapable people" who I have to "deal with" in the first place. If playing Elder Scrolls Online competitively was what kept a roof over my head and food in my belly, maybe I'd think about it differently. As it stands? Let's get real, folks - this is a video game. It's a recreational activity. If it is creating extra stress in your life that you have to "deal with" it and leads you to start calling others "incapable people" for the love of the gods, rethink your approach. Or at the very least recognize that you have one hell of a blessed life if you can afford to get upset and stress about something like a video game.

In any case, other players are simply other players to me. I aim to work with them as best I can to complete the dungeon. Sometimes it doesn't work out, and that's okay. Since I'm usually tanking - and I'm a pretty good tank - I am not going to be the first one to leave. I know I'm the anchor of the group, especially in vet dungeons. I don't mind having to work harder or play differently to support the group in a different way, provided I'm able. I have better stories to tell about failed groups that stuck together and had fun than I do about the uber-leet damage dealers who trivialize my role as a tank.

Khumbu

Other

It varies WILDLY.
Inexperienced newbie? I explain mechanics.
CP 810? I’ll still explain mechanics but am more willing to kick because by 810, you should at least have some idea what you’re doing.
The whole group sucks? I Nope myself out instead of kicking.
Someone trolling the rest of the group, ignoring things that were explained repeatedly, or being elitist about their own CP and blaming newer players? THEY get the boot.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Stick with them

Starlock wrote: »

I don't do vet content very often. When I do, I'm going to be tanking. Most importantly, I'm not a competitive gamer. This means that I do not conceptualize other players as "incapable people" who I have to "deal with" in the first place. If playing Elder Scrolls Online competitively was what kept a roof over my head and food in my belly, maybe I'd think about it differently. As it stands? Let's get real, folks - this is a video game. It's a recreational activity. If it is creating extra stress in your life that you have to "deal with" it and leads you to start calling others "incapable people" for the love of the gods, rethink your approach. Or at the very least recognize that you have one hell of a blessed life if you can afford to get upset and stress about something like a video game.

In any case, other players are simply other players to me. I aim to work with them as best I can to complete the dungeon. Sometimes it doesn't work out, and that's okay. Since I'm usually tanking - and I'm a pretty good tank - I am not going to be the first one to leave. I know I'm the anchor of the group, especially in vet dungeons. I don't mind having to work harder or play differently to support the group in a different way, provided I'm able. I have better stories to tell about failed groups that stuck together and had fun than I do about the uber-leet damage dealers who trivialize my role as a tank.

I instantly like and respect you. The world needs more people with this way of looking at things. Well stated and good for you.

WildRaptorX

Other

Quickly tell them the mechanics and what to do

bulbousb16_ESO

Kick them

Thannazzar wrote: »

4. Healing without a resto staff. Then they get kicked.

Wait, why is this bad?

siddique

Stick with them

I think I've maybe once or twice kicked people for being stubbornly indifferent to all the advice. Otherwise I stick for as long as I can and explain along.

That's how I learnt it too, if everyone kicked me when I was learning I'd still be doing normal dungeons.

barney2525

Other

How do I deal with them?

They get 5 cards, just like everyone else

Dojohoda

Stick with them

I stick around to hear the elites go into a meltdown. That alone is worth the price of the game.

redspecter23

Other

It depends. I usually don't even enter into a group if I think they can't complete the content. If I do end up in a group that is failing over and over, I'll assess the situation. If I feel we can complete if we swap up tactics or try a slightly different approach, I'll stick with it. If one of the members honestly can't play on the level that is needed for the content, I may ask them to leave so someone else can come in or I may excuse myself from the dungeon (the latter is probably more polite and what I would be more likely to do.)

What I will not do is sit down and teach basic dungeon combat within the confines of a difficult veteran dungeon. I will be more than happy to share knowledge with people before or after a dungeon, but I'm typically not in a dungeon to teach people. I'm in there to run the dungeon.

furiouslog

Stick with them

I got kicked out of vet frostvault twice, both at the vault protector. The first time I asked to be kicked, because it was clear that my CP and gear were not yet there. The second time, once I had decent single target stats,, we wiped three times for a number of reasons outside of me or my dps, and the leader vote-kicked me the third time on the basis of the last cmx benchmark where I did 15% of the damage because I had died and they didn't rez me. Up to that point I was pulling 25-35% and doing 20-30K dps, which I know is not optimal, but I am in low 400s and the other three were 800s, so interpret that how you will.

I felt like that one would have benefited from a chat first (at least out of civility), and that the unilateral kicking was unfair, but I understand the incentive. Time is limited, and It's easy to get a replacement DPS for a DLC dungeon who is going to have strong stats, so might as well just end time for anyone who's not meeting your personal output thresholds. I don't even queue for most DLC vet dungeons anymore because I am easily replaceable in that context, so my time gets wasted too if someone gets a hair up their butt over one bad fight.

Personally, i will give anyone a shot who is actually there to learn/play and they are in their appropriate role. If they are a lower level fake tank or healer new to the dungeon, which seems to happen a lot on random normals, and we wipe because they can't deal, I'd vote to kick that person.

Gordon906

Leave

I only do dungeons with my tank, and queueing is quick for me. If a DPS isn't pulling their weight, then I just stick around for 10 minutes to wait for my next queue.