Did you nerf PvE questing even more ?

Ogou

MaleAmazon wrote: »

This is the problem right there. We don't know where you started your story. Almost any quest in the game could have been your first ever quest and ZOS refuses to change that fact. When you combine that and the difference between a new player and an experienced one there is no way to balance the content for everyone.

Well, the story began in Coldharbour, the Alliance questline goes along with that; they are decoupled now but the dialogue is still there and the story makes no sense if you don´t play it in that order - you just don´t have to. Anyone who has played Summerset through knows that it features the return of a certain character from the main quest (and I am not talking about Raz), and also Morrowind -> Clockwork -> Summerset have a complete story arc in that order. Summerset also of course has a certain character from Morrowind play a... let´s say big part

So there is no doubt that it is written as a story arc and not separate independent chapters; the same sort of goes for IC (I didn´t pay perfect attention to the story there tbh). Thieves´ guild and DB are more standalone AFAIK but there is nothing about them that suggests they should be played on non-main characters.

So just play the story and you will far outlevel the content.

Now they have written things to accomodate for new players so that you don´t automatically get screwed or confused when starting in the middle of the story; which makes sense to me. What doesn´t make sense is leaving what you would suppose is the average TES / Skyrim player - someone coming from solo games and expecting some kind of opposition, with vMA and then nothing for 4 years in terms of solo trials, and no option to crank things up apart from the completely absurd suggestions we´ve seen in threads like this, like "you can just deliberately gimp yourself and hope everyone else does - it makes sense!".

Except, ZOS doesn't see it that way. There's even an ESO live leading to Summerset where they explicitly say that they try to write the stories so that you can do the quests in any order you want (dont think they did a good job there). So they will never make the zones progressively more difficult as that would go against their design.

I totally agree there needs to be harder solo content, but it can't be the overland content.

MaleAmazon

Except, ZOS doesn't see it that way. There's even an ESO live leading to Summerset where they explicitly say that they try to write the stories so that you can do the quests in any order you want (dont think they did a good job there). So they will never make the zones progressively more difficult as that would go against their design.

Well, I don´t want them to make the zones harder the way it was with, say, Bloodmoon and Tribunal for TES3. I want them to allow for proper difficulty scaling (not going to rehash how again, it can be done).

And yeah they try to write the stories so you can play them in any order, but my point still stands that playing Summerset before Morrowind is the equivalent of reading a book backwards.

Our friend Darien is taken by Meridia by the end of the Vanilla MQ, he is taken to the coloured rooms (Orsinium lorebook apparently), returns as the golden knight and then dies, or disintegrates, by the end of Summerset. The writing clearly indicates that these things happen in sequence. That is a story arc. Actually, taking breaks from ESO meant that I did not myself play through everything in proper order and it does feel like I missed out a bit.

7788b14_ESO

I don't think there's really anything to be done about hard vs easy in gaming. If I only play an hour or two a day vs someone who plays eight to sixteen hours a day or someone who looks up guides and has spreadsheets on gear and weapons stats in a game vs someone who doesn't really care about mini-max builds, there will always be a controversy.

I was going to suggest difficulty levels that can be set by the player but in the other games I play that have difficulty mission settings people argue about the each of the settings being to hard or to easy.

AFAIK, most MMOs start off hard and get easy over time. There's no way to please 100% of the player base.

MartiniDaniels

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think there's really anything to be done about hard vs easy in gaming. If I only play an hour or two a day vs someone who plays eight to sixteen hours a day or someone who looks up guides and has spreadsheets on gear and weapons stats in a game vs someone who doesn't really care about mini-max builds, there will always be a controversy.

I was going to suggest difficulty levels that can be set by the player but in the other games I play that have difficulty mission settings people argue about the each of the settings being to hard or to easy.

AFAIK, most MMOs start off hard and get easy over time. There's no way to please 100% of the player base.

You are right but things are not like you described. You create new character without CP, food, gear, passives and still only way to die in overland even for that character is just to stand taking all possible hits, aoes and ccs and doing nothing. As soon as you start moving you become invincible.. and nobody asks for challenge mode, there is enough challenge in this game in group content and if you need challenging solo content you may just solo vet dungeons.
OP and some other people in this thread and me, we asking to add overland mode which will have actual RPG/combat gameplay.. like in 99% other games. ESO overland now is like a reserved national park for yeti.

Sylvermynx

@Linaleah - I bought my first PC in 1984; I was 37. I didn't know about games at that point; I bought it so I could store the stuff I wrote somewhere besides paper waiting for it to go up in a house fire! I put the floppy disks in the safe deposit box.... Yep, first PC had two 5.25 inch floppy drives....

Eventually I bought a better machine with a hard drive and more RAM, and "upgraded" from DOS 3.whatever to Windows 3.0 (buggier than ANY anthill!) and about that same time I discovered CRPGs. Stonegate, the SSI Gold Box Games, BG1 and 2, NWN (not the AOL title - nope no way.... truly strange people there).

The one thing I've discovered over all these years of playing CRPGs and MMOs is that no one's ever going to be perfectly happy with a given game.

In ESO, I'm just happy if I can live over 3 mobs beating on me. Not a given, as my connection is SO gimped.... 2k + ms will do that.

[For those who are looking for a challenge, btw - I recommend you replace your super duper broadband with satellite. Now THAT is going to challenge you to keep your toons alive.]

Linaleah

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Epic fail of Craglorn was just a drop that turned the tide. Game died. Thats how awesome Craglorn was.

They reworked it the first time but it wasnt enough and they had to rework it second time.

But hey, im sure you have your imaginary reasons to believe otherwise, you are free to believe what you want, i will stick to facts.

Damn, about what epic fail of Craglorn you are talking? This is basically best zone of all game, with most expensive traders, with best farming places and best solo experience outside of VMA. While in other non-dlc zones you will met nobody in hours with exception of deshaan, bangkorai and rivenspire where people grind expensive gear and alik'r with damn dolmen groups.

and there I thought the most expensive traders were in capitol cities (cause pledges) and on pc - Rawl'ka? Craglorn hasn't been the defacto best trader zone since they made writ turn ins be possible in zone of your choice. the moment people doing max level writs could get out of Bankorai? most did. and I do run into people in other zones. pretty much every zone. only reason people still farm Crag is because its still the only source of nirn. and I'm trying to remember when was the last time I went into one of the trials manually. fast travel IS a thing, you know.

oh yeah.. there are still people who go there to skip the game by doing that oh so challenging skyreach grind.

also. reminder. there are plenty of us who have been playing for a while who actualy enjoy this level of difficulty of over-world. allows us to relax and actualy makes the game MORE immersive becasue of it.

This is pointless discussion really. As I said "elite" mobs can't kill fresh made character light attacking them without gear. If this in any way sane level of difficulty for something called "game", I'm out of arguments. But you participated in discussion about gaming in 199x... in absolutely any popular game I remember level of difficulty provided either hard training for your reflexes or ton of save-load in more tactical games and player's backside was handed to him on every corner on base difficulty. How this correlate with ESO where in overland only way to die is go AFK... and how it's immersive when giant hits you with his huge club and takes less then 10% HP..

P.S. about Craglorn it's my experience on PC EU, maybe Vivec is more expensive, but I think Craglorn has majority of actual buyers and best balance of price/selection. I mean there are more noobs in Vivec and Alinor, but they don't buy much and they are not bored waiting for group whatever, so...

and I call lies on bolded. or at least very gross exaggeration. because yeah. they can and DO kill characters all.. the damn. time. you know from people who don't have ingrained muscle memory to dodge, interrupt, etc etc. I mean.... if I'm not paying attention, my MAIN gets killed by elites out in a world. you just don't realize how ingrained your combat reactions are and to be honest i'm not surprised that you are not realizing it, since its not something you consciously think about anymore, but a ton of players, me included STILL have to think about that.

P.S. maybe PC EU is different in that they stick to old habits longer. I've noticed that in general prices are much higher in PC EU than on PC NA. but I don't check craglorn traders on PC nearly as much anymore becasue I haven't been able to find much on them in months. at least from what I personaly look at.

Linaleah

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Linaleah - I bought my first PC in 1984; I was 37. I didn't know about games at that point; I bought it so I could store the stuff I wrote somewhere besides paper waiting for it to go up in a house fire! I put the floppy disks in the safe deposit box.... Yep, first PC had two 5.25 inch floppy drives....

Eventually I bought a better machine with a hard drive and more RAM, and "upgraded" from DOS 3.whatever to Windows 3.0 (buggier than ANY anthill!) and about that same time I discovered CRPGs. Stonegate, the SSI Gold Box Games, BG1 and 2, NWN (not the AOL title - nope no way.... truly strange people there).

The one thing I've discovered over all these years of playing CRPGs and MMOs is that no one's ever going to be perfectly happy with a given game.

In ESO, I'm just happy if I can live over 3 mobs beating on me. Not a given, as my connection is SO gimped.... 2k + ms will do that.

[For those who are looking for a challenge, btw - I recommend you replace your super duper broadband with satellite. Now THAT is going to challenge you to keep your toons alive.]

awesome and i do remember those gigantic floppies, our schools computers still used them (I think our windows was 3.1 back in those days?). they were so darn fragile... by the time we got our personal pc - it pretty much moved on to the smaller, thicker (so also sturdier) floppies. I also remember getting demos on them, back when there were a lot more physical gaming magazines and those came with demo disks

and you are absolutely right, no one will ever be perfectly happy with any game, ever. I mean.. that's kinda part of the reason that drives modding. its just... I guess I wish people who keep complaining about how easy everything is for them.. would have a chance to actualy see new player struggle. or even a player who is not them and doesn't have their ability - struggle. even as they are trying, genuinely trying to play better. for perspective, you know? heck, i wish they could go back in a past, and watch themselves learn the game and then while still in a past, try to play that very same version of a game, but with their current existing experience... and SEE the difference it makes for themselves.

Osteos

I have been questing on my Necro in Elsewyr and the difficulty seems perfect for a new character to me. I haven't spent any of my CP, not using food, no mundus stone and I am just using gear that I pick up while questing.

SoLooney

Watch zos make that content harder and the forums flooded with how hard zones are.

Think we are fine

mocap

i like Craglorn public delves and "semi-dungeons" like Skyreach, don't see any "fail" here like people say in this thread. Still not that hard as vMA, not even close, but waaay harder than regular overland. That school of warriors was very tough place.

Soloing Craglorn dungeons (don't confuse with Craglorn main storyline) was very fun and challenging.

So yeah - maybe just make Veteran toggle affect overland delves?
Problem solved? )

Linaleah

mocap wrote: »

i like Craglorn public delves and "semi-dungeons" like Skyreach, don't see any "fail" here like people say in this thread. Still not that hard as vMA, not even close, but waaay harder than regular overland. That school of warriors was very tough place.

Soloing Craglorn dungeons (don't confuse with Craglorn main storyline) was very fun and challenging.

So yeah - maybe just make Veteran toggle affect overland delves?
Problem solved? )

optional toggle for overland delves and public dungeons is probably the easiest and most likely challenge compromise.

MLGProPlayer

Rawkan wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can 1-2 shot every overland enemy in the game, including quest bosses.

Almost as if it's not designed around max CP players.

Why not? Shouldn't content be for everyone?

MikaHR

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Epic fail of Craglorn was just a drop that turned the tide. Game died. Thats how awesome Craglorn was.

They reworked it the first time but it wasnt enough and they had to rework it second time.

But hey, im sure you have your imaginary reasons to believe otherwise, you are free to believe what you want, i will stick to facts.

Damn, about what epic fail of Craglorn you are talking? This is basically best zone of all game, with most expensive traders, with best farming places and best solo experience outside of VMA. While in other non-dlc zones you will met nobody in hours with exception of deshaan, bangkorai and rivenspire where people grind expensive gear and alik'r with damn dolmen groups.

It had to be reworked TWICE and still everyone hates it. Sure sounds like "best experience" for sure. Seems you have to get your head out of your a...Craglorn, no matter how much you try you wont change ESO historical facts.

MikaHR

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think there's really anything to be done about hard vs easy in gaming. If I only play an hour or two a day vs someone who plays eight to sixteen hours a day or someone who looks up guides and has spreadsheets on gear and weapons stats in a game vs someone who doesn't really care about mini-max builds, there will always be a controversy.

I was going to suggest difficulty levels that can be set by the player but in the other games I play that have difficulty mission settings people argue about the each of the settings being to hard or to easy.

AFAIK, most MMOs start off hard and get easy over time. There's no way to please 100% of the player base.

Thats the thing, no MMO has gotten harder over time. Guess why. It turned out "hardocres" cant even sustain smaller game like WIldstar, let alone AAA online game.

zyk wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

A one part "all inclusive" system with built in media device (floppy disc) that you plug into your TV, plug in controller (joystick at the time) put in the disc and game, no other input required!

Thats right a CONSOLE. Except its description of Amiga. You had to load Workbench SEPARATELY if you wanted to use it.

Just because one could boot games from a floppy and connect the Amiga to a tv via composite, does not make it a console. It may have only been a console to you, but it is irrefutably a personal computer and an impressive one at that.

My Amiga was not ever connected to a tv. I know a lot of people bought Amigas just for games in Europe, but it was very powerful PC that could play games. Like the one I am using now. Especially for Desktop Video and multimedia authoring.

The first season of Babylon 5 was made on the Amiga. You can't design models and render computer graphics for an award winning tv show with a console.

Booting directly to a game and bypassing the operating would have been possible on all computers from that period had the will to do it been there. It didn't happen on IBM compatibles because of compatibility with a wide range of clone hardware. That doesn't make it a console. I mean, you're just being one of those people who can't admit they're wrong even in the face of irrefutable evidence.

Rawkan wrote: »

This has gone way off topic. Take it to private messages guys.

It's actually relevant. Much in the same way Mika is adapting history to suit him, the modern gamer wants the game to adapt to them instead of adapting to the game.

But I'm done.

Yeah, just because it functioned EXACTLY like a console it makes it a console, it was also THE most powerful tool for multimedia, waaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of PC for a long long time....it was even PRICED like a console.....and vast majority used it exactly as a console. And later they had seamless transfer to PS1 because it was....exactly the same.

And you didnt "bypass" anything on Amiga, it doesnt have any OS inherently. So much for your knowledge on the matter.

You can absolutely render stuff on console, you just need access to hardware.

Yes, youre done.

Linaleah wrote: »

edited to add. @MikaHR your history is a bit wrong. sure not everyone could afford personal computers back then, but they were far more advanced than you claim and were already getting fairly accessible. I started playing on PC in 1992 to be precise, when our highschool got a PC lab - in theory we were supposed to be using it to learn early programing, and we did, during class hours. in practice, it was full of people playing games during recess. this is what fate of atlantis looked like.

by 1995 - my family immigrated to US and one of the first things we did, as soon as we could - we bought a personal computer (not amiga or atari). we were NOT rich. that same PC had to work to help me study in college, the same PC was used by entire family. but it also played games like this


though I personaly started with 2, kinda skipping heroes of might and magic 1 entirely even back then

consoles revolutionized accessibility of gaming, but they didn't start the narrative and visual improvements. PC did

Amiga was released in 1987.

1995.is already PS1 time.

FierceSam

I like the idea of a Nord Bathers Death Is Death guild - you take on the hardest game content (not easy quests) armed with nothing more than a Nord bathers towel and take it from there. No CP unless your character earns it.

I’d put at least one of my character slots into that.

And I’d like to see a ban on people moaning that content is too easy until they have at least a couple of maxed out endgame achievement characters. Ideally on Death is Death characters.

From ZOS’s point of view all players are equally valuable. And there’s a load more ‘less experienced’ players than there are those whining that content aimed at new players is too easy for them.

If all you do is starter content, then your biggest challenge is nothing but a molehill. And you’ll never get to the mountains.

FierceSam

Meanwhile, out in the real world

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475589/vetcr-vet-hof-why-are-they-so-hard#latest

I’d say ZOS have their work cut out

But it’s clear that there is content out there for both experienced and new players.

Jeremy

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Every time any MMO puts an expansion out you have one person screaming it's too easy and one person screaming it's too hard.

At this point it is as predictable and boring as...well, most MMO expansions.

That's why they need to introduce a veteran zone players can choose to quest in that's scaled to a higher difficulty. That way both persons are happy and they wouldn't have to scream about it any longer. ^^

That is a lot of needless money that devs won't spend, when they could be working on cash shop items, they know that people who actually want to play are a minority and most folks just want to sit in Daggerfall and preen.

I worked with both Mutable Realms and Artifact Entertainment (Turbine after that) way back in the Jurassic era, at that time dev teams were mostly made up of Three divisions: Content, art and mechanics. The networking was in most cases was contracted out.

My point is, the teams were mostly even sized, giving a full team of folks working on balance.

My sense is today the largest team is the cash shop team, and dev houses seem to be much smaller than they use to be, which anyone can do the math, and realize that the main goal of most MMO's these days is turning players into payers.

I think you might be underestimating how serious a problem this is for a lot of players since you consider it "needless money". Because I believe the opposite is true - and this something that the game needs to address eventually. Right now ESO benefits from a lack in competition. But I honestly believe if they don't do something to make the landscape content more challenging they will eventually start to lose veteran players as a result. It's approaching levels of easy that make it boring to play - and that isn't good.

Creating a veteran zone shouldn't be that difficult anyway. All they literally would have to do is copy and paste the zone and then scale the monsters upward. So even a smaller development team shouldn't have any trouble doing that.

Chadak

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

Jeremy

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting. And besides, what we are talking about here is optional. No one here that I have seen is demanding the entire world of Tamriel be turned into "6 inch deep sand". They are simply suggesting a more challenging alternative be given so higher level players who are tried of slaughtering everything they encounter in seconds can have fun on the game too.

Strider__Roshin

Yup. I normally enjoy PvE in a game, and am usually interested in story, but the PvE in this game is so easy it feels like a chore to play it.

Chadak

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting.

So, I should change what I'm doing in order to enable myself to the challenge I desire?

MikaHR

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting. And besides, what we are talking about here is optional. No one here that I have seen is demanding the entire world of Tamriel be turned into "6 inch deep sand". They are simply suggesting a more challenging alternative be given so higher level players who are tried of slaughtering everything they encounter in seconds can have fun on the game too.

Actually many people here have demanded whole game be made much more "challenging".

And you already have exactly same alternative that you refuse to use.

Jeremy

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting.

So, I should change what I'm doing in order to enable myself to the challenge I desire?

If the route you were running was too easy then yes - you should change to a more difficult route so it's more challenging. That way you are actually improving yourself. You're not purposely making yourself weaker to get a better challenge by wearing crappy shoes or something silly like that.

MikaHR

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting.

So, I should change what I'm doing in order to enable myself to the challenge I desire?

If the route you were running was too easy then yes - you should change to a more difficult route so it's more challenging. That way you are actually improving yourself. You're not purposely making yourself weaker to get a better challenge by wearing crappy shoes or something silly like that.

Exactly. You adjust your difficulty as you wish, exactly the way you can easily do in ESO right now!

Jeremy

MikaHR wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting. And besides, what we are talking about here is optional. No one here that I have seen is demanding the entire world of Tamriel be turned into "6 inch deep sand". They are simply suggesting a more challenging alternative be given so higher level players who are tried of slaughtering everything they encounter in seconds can have fun on the game too.

Actually many people here have demanded whole game be made much more "challenging".

And you already have exactly same alternative that you refuse to use.

Who has demanded they make the whole game more challenging?

All the solutions I have read have been optional. And yes - I refuse to run around in crappy gear on purpose to try and make the game more fun. I"ll quit before I do something so ludicrous.

Rawkan

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Rawkan wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can 1-2 shot every overland enemy in the game, including quest bosses.

Almost as if it's not designed around max CP players.

Why not? Shouldn't content be for everyone?

Designing overland content for max CP players would be a bad idea. There's a lot of new players and people that are low CP. Having zones with different CP levels would be better. I don't see why we need every zone to scale to 0 CP. Making some of them more dangerous would be good, also for the sense of progression.

I guess ZOS wants us to be able to level in any zone that we please, but that also makes it more bland.

Jeremy

MikaHR wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting.

So, I should change what I'm doing in order to enable myself to the challenge I desire?

If the route you were running was too easy then yes - you should change to a more difficult route so it's more challenging. That way you are actually improving yourself. You're not purposely making yourself weaker to get a better challenge by wearing crappy shoes or something silly like that.

Exactly. You adjust your difficulty as you wish, exactly the way you can easily do in ESO right now!

Yes, but I adjusted it by choosing a more challenging route. Not by purposely making myself weaker...

There is a huge difference.

MikaHR

Jeremy wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting. And besides, what we are talking about here is optional. No one here that I have seen is demanding the entire world of Tamriel be turned into "6 inch deep sand". They are simply suggesting a more challenging alternative be given so higher level players who are tried of slaughtering everything they encounter in seconds can have fun on the game too.

Actually many people here have demanded whole game be made much more "challenging".

And you already have exactly same alternative that you refuse to use.

Who has demanded they make the whole game more challenging?

All the solutions I have read have been optional. And yes - I refuse to run around in crappy gear on purpose to try and make the game more fun. I"ll quit before I do something so ludicrous.

You have the whole survey thread doing exactly that.

Jeremy

MikaHR wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

So, I just got done with my 3 mile morning run.

When I started running, I couldn't even manage half a mile without wheezing and wanting to die, but now I've been running for a few years and it just isn't as challenging as it used to be.

And that's why I think every street and sidewalk in the entire world should be made out of six inch deep sand, so I can have a sense of challenge to my morning runs again.

A better analogy would be if you're morning run become so easy it was boring you and not giving you the kind of exercise you wanted so you decided to run a more difficult route.

Some challenge is good. It makes things more interesting. And besides, what we are talking about here is optional. No one here that I have seen is demanding the entire world of Tamriel be turned into "6 inch deep sand". They are simply suggesting a more challenging alternative be given so higher level players who are tried of slaughtering everything they encounter in seconds can have fun on the game too.

Actually many people here have demanded whole game be made much more "challenging".

And you already have exactly same alternative that you refuse to use.

Who has demanded they make the whole game more challenging?

All the solutions I have read have been optional. And yes - I refuse to run around in crappy gear on purpose to try and make the game more fun. I"ll quit before I do something so ludicrous.

You have the whole survey thread doing exactly that.

I was referring to this thread.

Chadak

Jeremy wrote: »

And yes - I refuse to run around in crappy gear on purpose to try and make the game more fun. I"ll quit before I do something so ludicrous.

Then I want the entire planet covered in at least six inches of sand so my runs are more challenging. I shouldn't have to adjust my behavior at all. I'm clearly owed the experience I desire in my morning runs and am no more responsible for doing anything to give myself that experience than you are.