Did you nerf PvE questing even more ?

mague

I created a necro last night. Just dropped items, not even all slots. No CP, i mean zero, null CP. No knowledge of Necro. Just as any new player would be.

While i liked the new Mannimarco movie sequence how he stole my soul, the rest of the game is now extremely dull. Khenarthis Roost is so hopeless easy. There is this cave where you have to guard that healing spirit from the root eating bugs. The bugs dont even attack anymore. You just stand there watching the quest to update.

Temple of Mourning Springs.. took me 10 minutes to walk though it. No real damage incoming.
Hazak's Hollow.. probably less then 10 minutes. No damage incoming
Cats Eye Quay.. should be the heroic end of the zone. The taste of victory at the end of a zone.. just dull and done in less then 10 minutes.

Alit, Thunderbugs ? no damage. There is no sense of danger left.

I am not a player who wants it hard. Bit this level of easy hurts the storytelling. Even with only light attacking with two swords it was to easy and the buff to 14k HP useless. You wont drop below 12k ever.

I am now level 10 and bored out of my skull.

LordGavus

Khenarthis is a started island. Its supposed to be super easy for brand new players to learn the basics.

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

Unfortunately there is now way for you to unlearn how to play. You might have no cp set, with dropped gear, but you still know the games mechs. You know to LA weave, use dots and spammables.

Jeremy

mague wrote: »

I created a necro last night. Just dropped items, not even all slots. No CP, i mean zero, null CP. No knowledge of Necro. Just as any new player would be.

While i liked the new Mannimarco movie sequence how he stole my soul, the rest of the game is now extremely dull. Khenarthis Roost is so hopeless easy. There is this cave where you have to guard that healing spirit from the root eating bugs. The bugs dont even attack anymore. You just stand there watching the quest to update.

Temple of Mourning Springs.. took me 10 minutes to walk though it. No real damage incoming.
Hazak's Hollow.. probably less then 10 minutes. No damage incoming
Cats Eye Quay.. should be the heroic end of the zone. The taste of victory at the end of a zone.. just dull and done in less then 10 minutes.

Alit, Thunderbugs ? no damage. There is no sense of danger left.

I am not a player who wants it hard. Bit this level of easy hurts the storytelling. Even with only light attacking with two swords it was to easy and the buff to 14k HP useless. You wont drop below 12k ever.

I am now level 10 and bored out of my skull.

I have the same problem. The game's landscape is just pitifully easy to the point it's boring. It's a shame too - because the questing part of this game could be a lot more fun than it currently is if they would just introduce a veteran zone or something for people who like a little more challenge.

mague

LordGavus wrote: »

Khenarthis is a started island. Its supposed to be super easy for brand new players to learn the basics.

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

Unfortunately there is now way for you to unlearn how to play. You might have no cp set, with dropped gear, but you still know the games mechs. You know to LA weave, use dots and spammables.

Read my post again please. No weaving, no nothing. Did never need Scythe for the heal. Never used Bone Armor. Just dual wielding two level 1 white swords from that Khajiit merchand.

MLGProPlayer

You can 1-2 shot every overland enemy in the game, including quest bosses.

zyk

LordGavus wrote: »

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

They're really not. All overland mobs had their stats normalized years ago. They're designed so everyone *will* be successful regardless of build or aptitude.

LordGavus

zyk wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

They're really not. All overland mobs had their stats normalized years ago. They're designed so everyone *will* be successful regardless of build or aptitude.

More challenging than a starter island. Not saying they are actually hard.

I would love actually hard overland zones. But how do you make a zone hard for vet trial players, without making it impossible for brand new players?

zyk

LordGavus wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

They're really not. All overland mobs had their stats normalized years ago. They're designed so everyone *will* be successful regardless of build or aptitude.

More challenging than a starter island. Not saying they are actually hard.

I would love actually hard overland zones. But how do you make a zone hard for vet trial players, without making it impossible for brand new players?

They're actually the same mobs. A wolf on a starter island will be as strong as any other overland wolf. Same resists, hp, damage, etc.. The challenge in different areas will vary based on factors like the number of mobs, but the mobs themselves have been normalized.

ZOS can't introduce higher difficulty content because this audience seems to have a high rate of OCD with many players adamant that they must be able to complete all content on their own terms. Everything MUST be marginal.

I think they are more likely to remove vet difficulty completely to make the game more inclusive than do anything to make it more challenging.

MartiniDaniels

Yep, decided to finally go for cadwell's gold with new necro and full RP mode, i.e. no CP, no fast travel (other then through boat NPCs), no random dungeons, only quests for this char and his own gold, only gear what dropped etc... still so easy at low level, idk, I never saw easier and more boring and pointless combat experience in my life (and I'm not hardcore player, I usually make first walkthrough of any game on normal).

mocap

LordGavus wrote: »

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

Crablorn Craglorn is actually easiest zone among any others. One of the story bosses (big manticore) have stupidly impressive 67k hp.

So called "public delves" in Crag are hard, yes. And daily quest (Skyreach etc). Storyline is super dumb easy.

idk

Actually, you were not like new players as you still have an understanding of combat in this game which goes very far.

Further, Zos did not nerf overland or questing difficulty. Zos poorly manages this game and one result is they add to the power creep pretty much every major update. The devs lack a clue about how to manage are characters skills or the game as a whole.

Watch, they will end up increasing the gear cap as an attempt to reset the powercreep instead of figuring out how to manage the game right. Of course that will *** many of us off as Zos has even show they lack a clue about how to increase a level cap properly as they have demonstrated 3 times so far.

MaleAmazon

I would love actually hard overland zones. But how do you make a zone hard for vet trial players, without making it impossible for brand new players?

Battle spirit debuff.

It´s funny that this comes up again and again. I mean - difficulty settings are already in the game. It is just that you have battle levelling for sub-160 players (I think it´s auto-CP160) that works automatically, vet difficulty which works on enemies, and battle spirit that only works in PvP. The solution is easy - you don´t increase enemy stats, you decrease player stats.

All they have to do is put in an optional debuff setting that works on players while giving them a bit better rewards or something.

OP is right, also. I made 2 Necromancers for Elsweyr, one I am using to do the questline deliberately without any aid - no CP assigned, no banked gear, etc. And it is kind of fun, but the overland game is decidedly easy when you are experienced (and really, basic weaving is all that is required).

FierceSam

And yet there’s this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475042/trying-to-play-legit#latest which seems to suggest the exact opposite.

I suspect that for casual new players the difficulty level is the same as that the OP felt when they started. I know when I stated I found one L19 quest boss so difficult I had to create a totally new character in a different alliance just to carry on playing the game. Now I will happily swat that boss aside, but the boss hasn’t changed.

My L10 necro can help take down dragons and doesn’t die. He went into Spindleclutch and didn’t die, which I’m guessing still isn’t what a new L10 player will experience. Is that because the enemies are useless or because I know how to fight, block, interrupt, dodge and use the occasional skill? And if I do know how to do those things and can execute them properly, shouldn’t the game feel easy?

It’s hard to remember and difficult to acknowledge how poorly we played the game when we started. It’s totally right that the overland questing areas should cater for players who might also be making a start in the game.

LordGavus

zyk wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

They're really not. All overland mobs had their stats normalized years ago. They're designed so everyone *will* be successful regardless of build or aptitude.

More challenging than a starter island. Not saying they are actually hard.

I would love actually hard overland zones. But how do you make a zone hard for vet trial players, without making it impossible for brand new players?

They're actually the same mobs. A wolf on a starter island will be as strong as any other overland wolf. Same resists, hp, damage, etc.. The challenge in different areas will vary based on factors like the number of mobs, but the mobs themselves have been normalized.

Well there you go. I always thought the dlc mobs were a bit tougher.

I guess its hard to tell when all enemies die when you sneeze on them

FrancisCrawford

Overland trash fights get repetitive fast. I'm glad they're easy. The last game I played that varied its trash fights enough that I was happy for them to be consistently hard was Guild Wars, and technically there was no "overland" there, since everything was instanced. (Guild Wars pulled it off by having gamewide forced grouping, plus decent NPCs to fill out your groups, plus largish groups of mixed enemies to give those groups a workout.)

Overland boss fights, however, have gotten too easy.

MartiniDaniels

New lvl3 char, no-CP, no gear othen then provided by the game at start (i.e. caravaneer's greaves and jerkin, star haven training sword and sweet silver pendant, 3-stat food). And mobs can't put my health below 50% while I simply light attack them with no abilities slotted. If anybody thinks this is correct level of difficulty for newbies, i don't know what arguments may help.


And yes it became worse over the year. Boon for being low-level was increased and now food is also buffed, so now you character with no gear is invincible.

MartiniDaniels

Damn, what an epic incoming damage from elite mob (remembering Skyrim and what will do meeting with giant make to lvl3 char on normal....)

mague

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

And yes it became worse over the year. Boon for being low-level was increased and now food is also buffed, so now you character with no gear is invincible.

Thats what i mean. My first was a NB in 2015 and it was so hard that i gave up and created a Templar. My Templar suffered but made it all the way to Molag Bal.
Then i made a warden and it was very easy. And now it is even easier has zero difficulty and the whole world feels shallow, there is no danger left. I also think they removed NPC to make it even easier. Cat Eye Quey once had groups of 3 NPC. Did not see any of those.

I think Molag Bal won and we are living in one of his weird ideas.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

And it was already way much easier in 2015 compared to when it was released in 2014.

Linaleah

1. that Manimarco sequence is not new. it was there in Beta and I think.. at launch? i know i watched it when I first started playing and thought it was awesome, and that was in Beta.
2. kenarthi's roost is not just starter island its one of the ORIGINAL starter islands. it was easy before one tamriel. it was MEANT to be easy, becasue it was meant to ease you into the game without too much frustration.
3. you will never have the same experience as new player because you. know. how. to play. weaving is only a relatively small part of that. you are familiar with combat in general. you know what stats are good for you and which ones are not. I would wager that dodging and blocking and interrupting is something you do without even thinking, and I would say.. weaving as well. so yes. its easy for you. becasue you are not a new player. and i'm guessing your general skill cap is on a higher end of the spectrum.
4. aside from new player experience there is also that little thing of having different players at different gaming ability levels. its quite possible to have a new player who ends up grasping the game better - faster, then veteran player who has been playing for years. because their gaming abilities differ.


basically. no. leveling wasn't nerfed again. you just got better at this game.

P.S. most new players don't even eat food, or realize that you should. heck, I don't bother eating food when I'm questing through the world on my max level characters. its pretty incredible just how much of a difference, at least in my experience - food can make.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Linaleah wrote: »

1. that Manimarco sequence is not new. it was there in Beta and I think.. at launch? i know i watched it when I first started playing and thought it was awesome, and that was in Beta.
2. kenarthi's roost is not just starter island its one of the ORIGINAL starter islands. it was easy before one tamriel. it was MEANT to be easy, becasue it was meant to ease you into the game without too much frustration.
3. you will never have the same experience as new player because you. know. how. to play. weaving is only a relatively small part of that. you are familiar with combat in general. you know what stats are good for you and which ones are not. I would wager that dodging and blocking and interrupting is something you do without even thinking, and I would say.. weaving as well. so yes. its easy for you. becasue you are not a new player. and i'm guessing your general skill cap is on a higher end of the spectrum.
4. aside from new player experience there is also that little thing of having different players at different gaming ability levels. its quite possible to have a new player who ends up grasping the game better - faster, then veteran player who has been playing for years. because their gaming abilities differ.


basically. no. leveling wasn't nerfed again. you just got better at this game.

P.S. most new players don't even eat food, or realize that you should. heck, I don't bother eating food when I'm questing through the world on my max level characters. its pretty incredible just how much of a difference, at least in my experience - food can make.

When a player defeats mobs using no abilities or food and only the gear you are given to start with the "you got better" defence doesn't really stand up.

MartiniDaniels

^ no
No gear optimization, no weaving, and even no food. Just spam la and spam random abilities in random gear and nothing in overland has any chances to kill you (with exception of world bosses). Basically health regeneration is higher then incoming damage.
I just played with turned off interface, no bars, no CP, no food, no pots, i didn't even known what my current health is and didn't die a single time in 2 hours.
If you compare it to absolutely any casual game on market.. ok, let's take Skyrim and Witcher3, on normal difficulty you will be obliterated by enemies of your level if you don't use any kind of tactics and just spam attacks.

Overland is stupidly easy no matter what. Anyone who doesn't agree plz show example of AAA game which has comparable level of default difficulty.. i can't remember anything even close to absurdness of ESO.

JKorr

Glad to know there are absolute masters of the game, no matter what level the characters or equipment.

However brand new players, if you read some of the forum posts, are *not* having the same experience. People ranted about the difficulty when the game started, ranted about not being able to go anywhere any time, so they changed the game, and One Tamriel happened, so player could go from the starter islands to the last zone and not instantly die. Level scaling happened, and still people are complaining.

You know, although it isn't online, I've heard about a couple of games out....Dark Souls and Sokiru or something...apparently those games don't have enemies that die when one of the uber masters sneezes on them....

MartiniDaniels

@JKorr
Nobody asked for examples of games harder then ESO overland, it's like 99% of the market I guess.
Plz share example of game of comparable default difficulty, I'm simply curious if such games exist.

snoozy

FierceSam wrote: »

And yet there’s this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475042/trying-to-play-legit#latest which seems to suggest the exact opposite.

I suspect that for casual new players the difficulty level is the same as that the OP felt when they started. I know when I stated I found one L19 quest boss so difficult I had to create a totally new character in a different alliance just to carry on playing the game. Now I will happily swat that boss aside, but the boss hasn’t changed.

My L10 necro can help take down dragons and doesn’t die. He went into Spindleclutch and didn’t die, which I’m guessing still isn’t what a new L10 player will experience. Is that because the enemies are useless or because I know how to fight, block, interrupt, dodge and use the occasional skill? And if I do know how to do those things and can execute them properly, shouldn’t the game feel easy?

It’s hard to remember and difficult to acknowledge how poorly we played the game when we started. It’s totally right that the overland questing areas should cater for players who might also be making a start in the game.

completely agree.
and i am actually glad overland is easy once you get decent playing skills. it would be hella frustrating taking ages just to get to a skyshard or clearing a delve on a new toon.

but i also think there should be an option to increase difficulty for players who are bored. as mentioned before, an optional debuff for the player would leave the difficulty untouched for everyone else.

MikaHR

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

@JKorr
Nobody asked for examples of games harder then ESO overland, it's like 99% of the market I guess.
Plz share example of game of comparable default difficulty, I'm simply curious if such games exist.

Craglorn had to be reworked TWICE to do the opposite of what you suggest. Because it was dead.

In fact whole game died after launch and had to be completely reworked to do the opposite of what you want, deal with it.

Pretty much every single player has "story" mode option and i guess you have been out of loop with other games even MMOs, GW2 released "hardcore expansion" - HOT...their revenue HALVED in span of 2 months and that resulted in MASS LAYOFFS (hlaf of employees gone) in ArenaNet (GW2 developer).

So.....no, you are already getting waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than you deserve (DLC dungeons and trials) because ZOS is losing money even those.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

To be honest if you find the game too easy you can try to play, without allocating CPs, without food, without armor sets (I didn't say no armor) or only armors craftable with a few traits, without a good Mundus stone, only dropped potions, etc... like starting players
Try all that combined and I can assure you it will already be harder on most classes/builds.

Rex-Umbra

LordGavus wrote: »

Khenarthis is a started island. Its supposed to be super easy for brand new players to learn the basics.

Craglirn and the dlc zones will be more challenging.

Unfortunately there is now way for you to unlearn how to play. You might have no cp set, with dropped gear, but you still know the games mechs. You know to LA weave, use dots and spammables.

DLC zones just as pointlessly easy. Entire solo game is pointless. Only challenge the game has is PvP.

MikaHR

Oh, and we all remember Wildstar. It was game made specifically for these kind of people...didnt last a year before it was continally made easier and solo friendly...including F2P....too little to late, you should be grateful ZOS did and is doing what its doing and have ESO to play instead demanding that they kill it.

MaleAmazon

However brand new players, if you read some of the forum posts, are *not* having the same experience. People ranted about the difficulty when the game started, ranted about not being able to go anywhere any time, so they changed the game, and One Tamriel happened, so player could go from the starter islands to the last zone and not instantly die. Level scaling happened, and still people are complaining.

Well, here´s the thing - some people complained because they literally did not understand basic concepts. And part of this is that the game did not do a good job explaining. One person was complaining that the spiders were unkillable - he never interrupted them...

Thus, instead of being easier, the game was backwardly made harder for these players because there was little incitament to learn.

If there was a tutorial, book, something, that told players (personally I would like to see an in-game lorebook with drawings that you can read at any time, thus having easily accessed help that is gameworld-friendly) things...

Like: always have food buff, block yellow sparks, interrupt red sparks, dont stand in red, use heavy attack to restore resources, mix in light attacks between instant skills.


I played the tutorial in Elsweyr though and I have to say it was quite good. It might have been because I messed around, but I had the trainer tell me time and time again to block, interrupt, use heavy attack... so it was actually a nice experience even for an experienced player, and it should be quite useful for a newbie.

The Volendrung tutorial was also well made and funny.

All in all, they are heading in the right direction.

Girl_Number8

If you're not a noob what do you expect. Do the new trial or go solo in PvP, it is what I do.

There is plenty of entertaining content to fit different levels of skill and interests. I don't want new players to leave, as eso has a steep learning curve as it is. It is bad enough that I see players that have such horrible dps after they have been playing the game for over a year.

Since being a day one player without any breaks. I make new accounts every so often with no cp, no help from my other accounts, and guilds. It is really fun but that fact remains I have played the game for years, so I know the most efficient ways to go about it. A new player would not have a clue....And that is what the majority of overland is for, causal players.

It is a comfortable setting that keeps them in the game and wanting to progress into the harder content and socialize. Sounds like Zos got this part right.