Incap nerfed to the ground again

Tommy_The_Gun

Dojohoda wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

Xvorg wrote: »

so you can be stunned (feared) and silenced?

Yes, more info below on using fear and incap.

With the mag toon not trying to cc break--
REF: Fear has 4 second stun

---Incap into fear---

Incap into fear: The result of using incap - fear was the mag toon was silenced approx two seconds, then had cc immunity and could cast magic skills. Additionally, the mag toon did not cower in fear.
Furthermore- The short duration of fear stun and lack of fear animation from the sequence of incap - fear seems like a bug.

. . . . . . . . . .

---Fear into incap---

Fear into incap- It seems like the snare from fear lasts the normal time if using fear then incap.


That's all I can do for now.

Disclaimer- I'm counting in my head and have no addons on pts, so take all this information with some robust skepticism.

Can you maybe clarify something here? If you fear the mag toon, and then incap- do they get stunned and silenced together?

The first statement sounds like a typical broken mechanic via zos

Yes, Fear then Incap results in being both stunned and silenced.

Yes, but it pretty much does not matter.
When you are feared you can not use skills anyway. So if you incap-silence someone who is feared all it will do is dmg. Silence will be gone if target breaks free from fear.
Imho at this point I expect NB to switch to Onslaught ulti as it hits much harder than Incap. Incap was only used over Onslaught because it gave additional effects (that are now gone).
So the burst combo will most likely be:
Fear -> Onslaught -> execute or Relentless Focus bow proc-> execute.

Sure, with incap you have 20% more dmg on next attacks, but it makes your burst window longer.

botxa

There is no 20% dmg bonus on incap anymore. I do not understand why everyone thinks that there is.

darkblue5

botxa wrote: »

There is no 20% dmg bonus on incap anymore. I do not understand why everyone thinks that there is.

Ravage an enemy with a swift strike, dealing 14174 Disease Damage and causing them to take 20% more damage from your attacks for 6 seconds.
If cast with 120 or more Ultimate the enemy is silenced for 3 seconds.
While slotted you gain Reave, which restores 100 Magicka and Stamina when you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack on an enemy with a negative effect active on them.

WeylandLabs

Stam Sorcs : Dear nightblade's - you may feel this is the end of your class just remember. Your class hasnt seen 10 straight nerfs in 2 years like we have.

Ohh - and at least you can still cloak away.

Zos: Hold my beer 😂

Deathlord92

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Stam Sorcs : Dear nightblade's - you may feel this is the end of your class just remember. Your class hasnt seen 10 straight nerfs in 2 years like we have.

Ohh - and at least you can still cloak away.

Zos: Hold my beer 😂

You seem to be forgetting magblades which literally desperate for a good self heal especially since dark cloak a rip and major expedition was removed from cripple yeah magblade worse of then stam sorcs by a lot.

Kidgangster101

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Never cared about the stun on Incap since I normally feared before Incap anyways so the Silence being a breakable CC is no skin off my nose while still being a harsh punishment for a Magic Build that doesn't handle itself properly. I feel the sustain buff in place of Defile is a pretty nice trade off since it helps in both PvE and PvE whereas Defile is pretty pointless in PvE and I can always get Defile from Reverb for PvP purposes anyways so, I can totally adapt to this and feel its a fine adjustment overall.

But strider bro you were just telling me fear to incap doesn't work tho in the other thread. The pot is calling the kettle black now over here lol. I can never take anything you say seriously at all because you are always all over the place my man.

There is no difference between fear to incap and fear to cloak to incap so you guarantee a crit lol you are something else.

I told you that Fear>Cloak>Incap doesn't work, not that Fear>Incap doesn't work. You are a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

So of it doesn't work how am I able to do it? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 Lol

Maybe you need to press your buttons faster or something but I have no problem getting a guarenteed crit to finish people off

Aurielle

I wouldn’t necessarily say that incap is nerfed to the ground (the base ultimate is still incredibly strong, given how cheap it is), but the decision to stick with silence remains a baffling change. It will only work in very niche situations, against mag classes that don’t run immovable pots, haven’t broken free of a stun recently, or can’t manage their stamina well. The ultimate is supposed to get STRONGER at 120, not almost certainly weaker.

A very simple, universally effective reworking of Incap that would tone the skill down a bit while still making it a favourable alternative to DBoS could have been something like this:

“Ravage an enemy with a spinning attack to deal [X] Disease Damage and increasing your damage against them by 10% for 6 seconds. Casting at 120 Ultimate or more increases the bonus damage dealt to enemies to 20% and exposes a weak point in their armour, afflicting them with Minor Fracture.”

There are EXTREMELY few sources of Minor Fracture in ESO. Given that Incap is meant to incapacitate an enemy and make them vulnerable to attacks, I think it would make sense to add it to this skill. And before any Stamplars cry foul over how this will affect them in PVE, what other class out there has SOLE claim to a minor debuff?

But no, Elsweyr is going to launch with this utterly bizarre take on Incap that makes no sense whatsoever... Skooma ruins lives, kids.

Silver_Strider

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Never cared about the stun on Incap since I normally feared before Incap anyways so the Silence being a breakable CC is no skin off my nose while still being a harsh punishment for a Magic Build that doesn't handle itself properly. I feel the sustain buff in place of Defile is a pretty nice trade off since it helps in both PvE and PvE whereas Defile is pretty pointless in PvE and I can always get Defile from Reverb for PvP purposes anyways so, I can totally adapt to this and feel its a fine adjustment overall.

But strider bro you were just telling me fear to incap doesn't work tho in the other thread. The pot is calling the kettle black now over here lol. I can never take anything you say seriously at all because you are always all over the place my man.

There is no difference between fear to incap and fear to cloak to incap so you guarantee a crit lol you are something else.

I told you that Fear>Cloak>Incap doesn't work, not that Fear>Incap doesn't work. You are a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

So of it doesn't work how am I able to do it? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 Lol

Maybe you need to press your buttons faster or something but I have no problem getting a guarenteed crit to finish people off

Or maybe you fight people that are inexperienced/bad, have lag issues or are out of stamina, which are the only times that combo works, AS I EXPLAINED LAST TIME. How dense can someone be that they literally try to argue the same thing someone has already explained to them time and time again? Arguing with a wall would be more productive that this point.

Murador178

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Never cared about the stun on Incap since I normally feared before Incap anyways so the Silence being a breakable CC is no skin off my nose while still being a harsh punishment for a Magic Build that doesn't handle itself properly. I feel the sustain buff in place of Defile is a pretty nice trade off since it helps in both PvE and PvE whereas Defile is pretty pointless in PvE and I can always get Defile from Reverb for PvP purposes anyways so, I can totally adapt to this and feel its a fine adjustment overall.

But strider bro you were just telling me fear to incap doesn't work tho in the other thread. The pot is calling the kettle black now over here lol. I can never take anything you say seriously at all because you are always all over the place my man.

There is no difference between fear to incap and fear to cloak to incap so you guarantee a crit lol you are something else.

I told you that Fear>Cloak>Incap doesn't work, not that Fear>Incap doesn't work. You are a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

So of it doesn't work how am I able to do it? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 Lol

Maybe you need to press your buttons faster or something but I have no problem getting a guarenteed crit to finish people off

U shouldnt even incap assasins will with old stun bc a decent player would break free block/roll so ur combo only works vs potatos.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

You do realize that Incap is still of the hardest hitting 75 cost ulti out there, right?
Seriously, as a stamNB PvPer, I can never understand these kind of complain. "Incap is nerfed to the ground", no it's not. It was on top of the food chain, and now it's not anymore, but it's no where near useless.

Not nerfed into the ground? Really? I’m not complaining because I’ll just slot something else but come on.

Stun removed and replaced with an extremely situational silence that’s CC breakable, defile gone, and extra damage gone. Yeah, that’s nerfed into the ground.

It was OP as a single target ultimate. It definitely needed some tuning. But this isn’t tuning. They flat out took the wheels off, took out the engine, then threw it all in a trash compactor along with all the other nerfs NB just received.

Dawn breaker is way more effective. Increasing overall damage on the bar it’s slotted on. Knockdown. Burst. DoT. Even more powerful against WW and vamps. AoE.

I won’t be surprised if it’s not used in PvE anymore either.

NB isn’t weak but to ignore the fact ZoS went nerf crazy is well, crazy.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some comments that were not constructive and only served to disrupt the discussion. Please keep this thread civil and constructive.

Stibbons

Stunroots skills are ok, but ultimates are too powerfull Nice to know my nightblade will have ultimate just like templar useless free half cc:s that give free immunity too.

Galarthor

Stibbons wrote: »

Stunroots skills are ok, but ultimates are too powerfull Nice to know my nightblade will have ultimate just like templar useless free half cc:s that give free immunity too.

Templar stun is anything but useless. Sure, it does not prevent your target from running away, but it prevents it from using dangerous abilities, damages them, and heals you. It is not a classic CC, but it is nonetheless a powerful tool / CC.

And Incap is overloaded anyway: high damage and 20% damage increase are enough given it's cost. The stun was over the top.

The only thing that bothers me about the new Incap is its one-sidedness as it affects magicka builds far more severely than stamina builds. Biggest *** utli design after negate. ZOS just loves their stamina builds. But why stop at a CC that only affects magicka builds. Why not make the entire skill only apply damage to a target is max magicka > max stamina ... you know ZOS, to play it safe!

Stibbons

I have to agree. ZOS just love their stamina builds. Are breaks are from stamina, dodgeroll stamina, hide stamina, block stamina, run speed stamina,.. They could easily try to make some cc break from magic or something wild.

Katahdin

Major defile may be gone from incap but there are other ways to get it. I will still be applying major defile without incap and it will be from any skill not just incap.

Xvorg

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

Xvorg wrote: »

so you can be stunned (feared) and silenced?

Yes, more info below on using fear and incap.

With the mag toon not trying to cc break--
REF: Fear has 4 second stun

---Incap into fear---

Incap into fear: The result of using incap - fear was the mag toon was silenced approx two seconds, then had cc immunity and could cast magic skills. Additionally, the mag toon did not cower in fear.
Furthermore- The short duration of fear stun and lack of fear animation from the sequence of incap - fear seems like a bug.

. . . . . . . . . .

---Fear into incap---

Fear into incap- It seems like the snare from fear lasts the normal time if using fear then incap.


That's all I can do for now.

Disclaimer- I'm counting in my head and have no addons on pts, so take all this information with some robust skepticism.

Can you maybe clarify something here? If you fear the mag toon, and then incap- do they get stunned and silenced together?

The first statement sounds like a typical broken mechanic via zos

Yes, Fear then Incap results in being both stunned and silenced.

Yes, but it pretty much does not matter.
When you are feared you can not use skills anyway. So if you incap-silence someone who is feared all it will do is dmg. Silence will be gone if target breaks free from fear.
Imho at this point I expect NB to switch to Onslaught ulti as it hits much harder than Incap. Incap was only used over Onslaught because it gave additional effects (that are now gone).
So the burst combo will most likely be:
Fear -> Onslaught -> execute or Relentless Focus bow proc-> execute.

Sure, with incap you have 20% more dmg on next attacks, but it makes your burst window longer.

I'm more concerned with the cost of breaking both CCs.

If the cost is the same of breaking one, then it is bad on NB side, since 2 CCs were used when jou just needed one
If i doubles the cost then it is stupid.

In any case

Xvorg

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Stam Sorcs : Dear nightblade's - you may feel this is the end of your class just remember. Your class hasnt seen 10 straight nerfs in 2 years like we have.

Ohh - and at least you can still cloak away.

Zos: Hold my beer 😂

Sure, Strife is not a NB skill, right? I remember seen like 4 nerfs to it: targets affected, then cost (twice) then reduced healing/Dmg depending on the morph

That's just one skill, do I mention Siphoning strikes or Agony?

Xvorg

Katahdin wrote: »

Major defile may be gone from incap but there are other ways to get it. I will still be applying major defile without incap and it will be from any skill not just incap.

I'm buying all the affliction items I can xD

Arunei

NightAngel690 wrote: »

Because 90% of the people that complain about nbs and incap are sorcs. You never really see a Templar complain because they can just outheal anything a nb throws out regardless of the defile. They don’t even really run damage shields. A magden can just throw on shimmering shield, harness magicka and then come at you with a perma and shock clench. Magicka Nb can either A) cloak away, or b, use the shade to escape and then shield up while spamming crippling grasp to keep you at bay and then burst you down. Magdks just hold L and shield up.
Every time a counter to shield stacking comes out, who do you think complains the loudest? Sorcs that’s who.

Do you by any chance have any proof of that number, or is it just an arbitrarily large one pulled out of thin air to back up your claim? Because as far as I can see, it wasn't "90%" Sorcs speaking out against this change. It's been people across numerous Classes, both Mag and Stam, including NBs themselves. I have one Magsorc who I don't play often and who doesn't use shields or pets, my main DPS chars are a Redguard WW Stamsorc and a Dunmer Magknight, and I also have a Khajiit Stamblade who I need to get new gear for. Keeping that in mind, even I can see that Silence on Incap as it was before was too strong. This new Incap is...strange, and makes no sense; if the Silence can be CC broken then just revert it back to a Stun since that's essentially what it is.

Insco851

Xvorg wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Major defile may be gone from incap but there are other ways to get it. I will still be applying major defile without incap and it will be from any skill not just incap.

I'm buying all the affliction items I can xD

Good point! I can finally move those gold jewls haha

Stibbons

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Stam Sorcs : Dear nightblade's - you may feel this is the end of your class just remember. Your class hasnt seen 10 straight nerfs in 2 years like we have.

Ohh - and at least you can still cloak away.

Zos: Hold my beer 😂

I can feel your pain as magplar. 3 or more years of nerfs

CleymenZero

Xvorg wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NightAngel690 wrote: »

Incap is now useless again! You can’t silence an enemy after a cc is already on them? So you can’t incap and then fear anyone which pretty much means you can’t kill anyone? Okay Zos, gg. It’s pretty much a cheaper version of onslaught and even then onslaught hits way harder and you can get it back right away if you kill someone with it.
Here’s an idea! Stop listening to the sorcs who hide behind the most op damage shield in the game and just give us an ultimate that is actually useful or leave incap the way it was pre elsewyr!

You know magicka builds run with around 10K stam and that breaking CC for them is too expensive?.

It is the worst solution ever, on both sides.

Bad magicka players run around cyrodiil with 10k Stam. The fact you're even stating that as a point shows either your inexperience or ineptitude.

Bad? Ok, 12K

fear + incap: Do I break one or both? Will it charge me stam on both?

This is the worst solution. At lest they should let magicka break silence with MAGICKA.

CC breaking silence status with magicka... That's a really good idea. I most probably don't agree with your other points but that is really good!

I'm in favor of this version of incap. I like playing all classes and hate when I'm fighting a class that is OP. A heavy blade was just that. Fracture in the spammable, cheap ult that defiled stunned AND increases the damage. Minor berserk integrated into a hard hitting ability. I mean, you can't complain about the nerf, they were ridiculously inbalanced.

labambao

I hope our shadow image will hit now like a sorcerer matriarch lol

Insco851

labambao wrote: »

I hope our shadow image will hit now like a sorcerer matriarch lol

It has to actually cast first

Kidgangster101

labambao wrote: »

I hope our shadow image will hit now like a sorcerer matriarch lol

It won't hit nearly as hard because different CP than a Stam DPS build. This is why scaling damage to max resource means nothing lol.

Shade costs stamina does do some bonus damage because it scales but will never hit as hard as the magic side because it scales off the magic CP

labambao

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

labambao wrote: »

I hope our shadow image will hit now like a sorcerer matriarch lol

It won't hit nearly as hard because different CP than a Stam DPS build. This is why scaling damage to max resource means nothing lol.

Shade costs stamina does do some bonus damage because it scales but will never hit as hard as the magic side because it scales off the magic CP

I am nocp player, so, you know, cp doesn't matter. That's why I even can use soul harvest instead of incap and having just no changes to my ult as it is at live, only little damage reduce.
(btw if you use incap for stun - you playing stamblade wrong)

Kruwos

Well if you guys are so concerned about Incap disproportionately affecting builds then how about we add a new effect to the skill called disarm (or whatever) that locks out any stam abilities for 3 seconds. That way incap will lock out all skills except dodging , blocking and running.

I find it funny people complain how incap is 120 for stun and yet DBoS is 125....

Deathlord92

Kruwos wrote: »

Well if you guys are so concerned about Incap disproportionately affecting builds then how about we add a new effect to the skill called disarm (or whatever) that locks out any stam abilities for 3 seconds. That way incap will lock out all skills except dodging , blocking and running.

I find it funny people complain how incap is 120 for stun and yet DBoS is 125....

I wonder what’s being nerfed next 🙂🤔🤔

Druid40

Just slot AOE Incap… I mean DBOS.

Insco851

Kruwos wrote: »

Well if you guys are so concerned about Incap disproportionately affecting builds then how about we add a new effect to the skill called disarm (or whatever) that locks out any stam abilities for 3 seconds. That way incap will lock out all skills except dodging , blocking and running.

I find it funny people complain how incap is 120 for stun and yet DBoS is 125....

I don’t think people complained about the 120 stun. It was more the whole kit that this ult was part of. Zos then nerfed said kit pretty drastically and hit the ult as well.

Most would have been fine with this ult staying the same with the other nerfs in place. But they felt it also needed a nerf as well. At 70 ulti it was a coupon ult, 1 one get 3 free.