Incap nerfed to the ground again

Feanor

Gilvoth wrote: »

if i could see his stamina bar

Well, maybe one day they’ll implement all your great ideas for a rogue class. I’m sure every player would really like that serpent skill that greys out the opponent bar for ten seconds.

Chilly-McFreeze

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Defile was a bigger problem for playstyles that required healing.
Block builds, shield builds, nightblades etc did not care much for that effect of Incap.
Nobody cared then. The silence minus the defile is a good nerf.

All I am saying is that Incap is worse that before. It needed to be nerfed.
Bringing Magika v Stamina despite how weird Incap is now, is unhealthy.
Incap is nerfed. Everyone should be happy.
Good stamNB should not have an issue.
The 20% bonus dmg is still there and along with low cost and high dmg this ulty can still bring you 1 step from death.

You're just repeating that because it doesn't affect your stamDK main very much.

Rygonix

Gilvoth wrote: »

allways the same exact thing happens.
if some one ques as a healer in the group as a nightblade, i can promise you he will iether be removed and we wait for a templar, OR they will keep him and test it out and allways find his heals way too weak.

same for tank

That's because of a stigma that ZoS is thoroughly burying into the ground. Back in the day yeah Templars were the ultimate kings of heals. However, many nerfs over the years have changed that.
I never mentioned queueable content in my previous post so I dunno where that straw man came from. Stay on topic.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Never cared about the stun on Incap since I normally feared before Incap anyways so the Silence being a breakable CC is no skin off my nose while still being a harsh punishment for a Magic Build that doesn't handle itself properly. I feel the sustain buff in place of Defile is a pretty nice trade off since it helps in both PvE and PvE whereas Defile is pretty pointless in PvE and I can always get Defile from Reverb for PvP purposes anyways so, I can totally adapt to this and feel its a fine adjustment overall.

But strider bro you were just telling me fear to incap doesn't work tho in the other thread. The pot is calling the kettle black now over here lol. I can never take anything you say seriously at all because you are always all over the place my man.

There is no difference between fear to incap and fear to cloak to incap so you guarantee a crit lol you are something else.

He meant that incap stun in to fear don't work simply because they are alredy cc'ed.

The difference is that take one extra skill to try a mhe combo that will fail most of the time.

GeorgeBlack

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Defile was a bigger problem for playstyles that required healing.
Block builds, shield builds, nightblades etc did not care much for that effect of Incap.
Nobody cared then. The silence minus the defile is a good nerf.

All I am saying is that Incap is worse that before. It needed to be nerfed.
Bringing Magika v Stamina despite how weird Incap is now, is unhealthy.
Incap is nerfed. Everyone should be happy.
Good stamNB should not have an issue.
The 20% bonus dmg is still there and along with low cost and high dmg this ulty can still bring you 1 step from death.

You're just repeating that because it doesn't affect your stamDK main very much.

My non SnB stamDK is not a pain in the ass now is it?
Did my stamDK benefit from Seething Fury of a magika spammable?

All in all I like this patch so far even tho the only thing my stamDK got was a minor fix to the terrible Noxious Breath

Gilvoth

Feanor wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

if i could see his stamina bar

Well, maybe one day they’ll implement all your great ideas for a rogue class. I’m sure every player would really like that serpent skill that greys out the opponent bar for ten seconds.

not the ones that claim

quote:
"i play that class and even I dont like it, and i think its OP"
end quote:

Dojohoda

I have been testing it with a stamblade against a magblade. So far I have this to report:

If a mag toon has the swirly around its legs ( cc immunity) it can be hit with incap, but it will not be silenced.

If a mag toon does not have cc immunity and is hit with incap, rolling backward once breaks silence.

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

Xvorg

Dojohoda wrote: »

I have been testing it with a stamblade against a magblade. So far I have this to report:

If a mag toon has the swirly around its legs ( cc immunity) it can be hit with incap, but it will not be silenced.

If a mag toon does not have cc immunity and is hit with incap, rolling backward once breaks silence.

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

so you can be stunned (feared) and silenced?

Gilvoth

it should be deleted.
it is now useless as a skill

should no longer be called an ultimate nor incapacitating.

Chilly-McFreeze

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Defile was a bigger problem for playstyles that required healing.
Block builds, shield builds, nightblades etc did not care much for that effect of Incap.
Nobody cared then. The silence minus the defile is a good nerf.

All I am saying is that Incap is worse that before. It needed to be nerfed.
Bringing Magika v Stamina despite how weird Incap is now, is unhealthy.
Incap is nerfed. Everyone should be happy.
Good stamNB should not have an issue.
The 20% bonus dmg is still there and along with low cost and high dmg this ulty can still bring you 1 step from death.

You're just repeating that because it doesn't affect your stamDK main very much.

My non SnB stamDK is not a pain in the ass now is it?
Did my stamDK benefit from Seething Fury of a magika spammable?

All in all I like this patch so far even tho the only thing my stamDK got was a minor fix to the terrible Noxious Breath

Well, but this isn't about SF, it's about silence, isn't it?

GeorgeBlack

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Defile was a bigger problem for playstyles that required healing.
Block builds, shield builds, nightblades etc did not care much for that effect of Incap.
Nobody cared then. The silence minus the defile is a good nerf.

All I am saying is that Incap is worse that before. It needed to be nerfed.
Bringing Magika v Stamina despite how weird Incap is now, is unhealthy.
Incap is nerfed. Everyone should be happy.
Good stamNB should not have an issue.
The 20% bonus dmg is still there and along with low cost and high dmg this ulty can still bring you 1 step from death.

You're just repeating that because it doesn't affect your stamDK main very much.

My non SnB stamDK is not a pain in the ass now is it?
Did my stamDK benefit from Seething Fury of a magika spammable?

All in all I like this patch so far even tho the only thing my stamDK got was a minor fix to the terrible Noxious Breath

Well, but this isn't about SF, it's about silence, isn't it?

The replacement of stun with silence minus the removal of defile is a good nerf to Incap. That's what it is.

MartiniDaniels

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Nightblade's time is up. Take a year off from the class and play something else. Your class has had these nerfs coming for YEARS. It's been long overdue - we might finally start seeing other classes flourish now that Nightblades have been brought back down to the other classes. Both stamina and magicka needed adjustment - I'm glad ZoS finally addressed this, but I wish it hadn't come at the cost of not focusing enough on improving the Necromancer class.

Well, you understand that silence replaced mangle which was not brightest debuff and at 5.0.2 stamNB was feeling very well. And in addition to silence there is reave now. So broken mechanic gone, but NB is still very good, and same with magsorc, they are both several steps ahead then others, so i don't see where "other classes" may start to flourish.

Chilly-McFreeze

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Defile was a bigger problem for playstyles that required healing.
Block builds, shield builds, nightblades etc did not care much for that effect of Incap.
Nobody cared then. The silence minus the defile is a good nerf.

All I am saying is that Incap is worse that before. It needed to be nerfed.
Bringing Magika v Stamina despite how weird Incap is now, is unhealthy.
Incap is nerfed. Everyone should be happy.
Good stamNB should not have an issue.
The 20% bonus dmg is still there and along with low cost and high dmg this ulty can still bring you 1 step from death.

You're just repeating that because it doesn't affect your stamDK main very much.

My non SnB stamDK is not a pain in the ass now is it?
Did my stamDK benefit from Seething Fury of a magika spammable?

All in all I like this patch so far even tho the only thing my stamDK got was a minor fix to the terrible Noxious Breath

Well, but this isn't about SF, it's about silence, isn't it?

The replacement of stun with silence minus the removal of defile is a good nerf to Incap. That's what it is.

Against stam builds. Against magbuilds it not really a nerf. They still need to break free and waste stam. Sure, defile is gone but Reave compensates. But we're splitting hairs here.

Silver_Strider

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Never cared about the stun on Incap since I normally feared before Incap anyways so the Silence being a breakable CC is no skin off my nose while still being a harsh punishment for a Magic Build that doesn't handle itself properly. I feel the sustain buff in place of Defile is a pretty nice trade off since it helps in both PvE and PvE whereas Defile is pretty pointless in PvE and I can always get Defile from Reverb for PvP purposes anyways so, I can totally adapt to this and feel its a fine adjustment overall.

But strider bro you were just telling me fear to incap doesn't work tho in the other thread. The pot is calling the kettle black now over here lol. I can never take anything you say seriously at all because you are always all over the place my man.

There is no difference between fear to incap and fear to cloak to incap so you guarantee a crit lol you are something else.

I told you that Fear>Cloak>Incap doesn't work, not that Fear>Incap doesn't work. You are a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Insco851

Dojohoda wrote: »

I have been testing it with a stamblade against a magblade. So far I have this to report:

If a mag toon has the swirly around its legs ( cc immunity) it can be hit with incap, but it will not be silenced.

If a mag toon does not have cc immunity and is hit with incap, rolling backward once breaks silence.

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

So the question remains- can you fear>incap and be both Stunned and Silenced? And if so- how does the break free work out?

Tommy_The_Gun

Somewhere, sometime, in a different alternative universe, a youtuber called Gilliamtherogue is making PTS 5.0.4 Reaction video.

I would like to see that video tbh.....

Ramber

Its pretty dam fair, no other class can hide literally in plain sight and empower its ulti for having done so almost guaranteeing a kill against someone who is silly enough to play a meta (non heavy armor or fort brass build) and get a bonus for it. Thats the reason for all the heavy armor builds, not wanting to get ganked. there should be a defense.

ilcavallo

Ramber wrote: »

Its pretty dam fair, no other class can hide literally in plain sight and empower its ulti for having done so almost guaranteeing a kill against someone who is silly enough to play a meta (non heavy armor or fort brass build) and get a bonus for it. Thats the reason for all the heavy armor builds, not wanting to get ganked. there should be a defense.

Lol no it isn't. I really don't know what to tell you if getting ganked is your biggest problem in Cyrodiil right now

Jabassa

NightAngel690 wrote: »

Incap is now useless again! You can’t silence an enemy after a cc is already on them? So you can’t incap and then fear anyone which pretty much means you can’t kill anyone? Okay Zos, gg. It’s pretty much a cheaper version of onslaught and even then onslaught hits way harder and you can get it back right away if you kill someone with it.
Here’s an idea! Stop listening to the sorcs who hide behind the most op damage shield in the game and just give us an ultimate that is actually useful or leave incap the way it was pre elsewyr!

I'll buy 500k crowns if they revert the whole class to wrathstone patch

Dojohoda

Dojohoda wrote: »

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

Xvorg wrote: »

so you can be stunned (feared) and silenced?

Yes, more info below on using fear and incap.

With the mag toon not trying to cc break--
REF: Fear has 4 second stun

---Incap into fear---

Incap into fear: The result of using incap - fear was the mag toon was silenced approx two seconds, then had cc immunity and could cast magic skills. Additionally, the mag toon did not cower in fear.
Furthermore- The short duration of fear stun and lack of fear animation from the sequence of incap - fear seems like a bug.
(Edit- This might be working as intended. When Silence ends it awards cc immunity which would cause fear to stop working. I just don't know for sure at this time.)

. . . . . . . . . .

---Fear into incap---

Fear into incap- It seems like the snare from fear lasts the normal time if using fear then incap.


That's all I can do for now.

Disclaimer- I'm counting in my head and have no addons on pts, so take all this information with some robust skepticism.

ProzTh3Almighty

How does a cc silence make it any worse then a stun? If you cant CC break on either your dead either way. Just less useful against stam now but now mag. Basically the same ult with some added sustain and a reworked stun that hurts mag more than stam but most stam are still gonna wanna break free from the silence to use utility abilities like cloak, extended ritual, fragmented shield, dark deal, whatever the armor buff for necro is called, yadayada. Its just a rework on combos for nightblades which means everyone will work out new combos an everyone will have to learn to counter them again. Under 120ult no prob keep it the same, over 120ult then use new combo. Will actually make stamblade less predictable which is probably not what the nerfers wanted. Btw if you plan on using shade, mass hysteria, phantasmal escape, and cloak next patch your gonna want around 15-20 mag in your build cuz that *** gets expensive. Gg

Insco851

Dojohoda wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

Xvorg wrote: »

so you can be stunned (feared) and silenced?

Yes, more info below on using fear and incap.

With the mag toon not trying to cc break--
REF: Fear has 4 second stun

---Incap into fear---

Incap into fear: The result of using incap - fear was the mag toon was silenced approx two seconds, then had cc immunity and could cast magic skills. Additionally, the mag toon did not cower in fear.
Furthermore- The short duration of fear stun and lack of fear animation from the sequence of incap - fear seems like a bug.

. . . . . . . . . .

---Fear into incap---

Fear into incap- It seems like the snare from fear lasts the normal time if using fear then incap.


That's all I can do for now.

Disclaimer- I'm counting in my head and have no addons on pts, so take all this information with some robust skepticism.

Can you maybe clarify something here? If you fear the mag toon, and then incap- do they get stunned and silenced together?

The first statement sounds like a typical broken mechanic via zos

LordTareq

Does the silence also trigger CC immunity? Because that would really suck.

Dojohoda

Insco851 wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

If a skill that stuns, (scatter shot, fear, etc) is used on mag toon, the mag toon will receive cc immunity after the stun ends. Timing scenarios on this has not been tested yet.

Xvorg wrote: »

so you can be stunned (feared) and silenced?

Yes, more info below on using fear and incap.

With the mag toon not trying to cc break--
REF: Fear has 4 second stun

---Incap into fear---

Incap into fear: The result of using incap - fear was the mag toon was silenced approx two seconds, then had cc immunity and could cast magic skills. Additionally, the mag toon did not cower in fear.
Furthermore- The short duration of fear stun and lack of fear animation from the sequence of incap - fear seems like a bug.

. . . . . . . . . .

---Fear into incap---

Fear into incap- It seems like the snare from fear lasts the normal time if using fear then incap.


That's all I can do for now.

Disclaimer- I'm counting in my head and have no addons on pts, so take all this information with some robust skepticism.

Can you maybe clarify something here? If you fear the mag toon, and then incap- do they get stunned and silenced together?

The first statement sounds like a typical broken mechanic via zos

Yes, Fear then Incap results in being both stunned and silenced. BUT remember, fear is a good stun; it is practically a mag/stam silence in itself, so being silenced is not worse than being feared and then incapped. Once fear is over, you have cc immunity and if silenced, that is over as well. From my point of view, it seems that the only benefit of the Fear-into-incap is the disease and bonus damage from incap, so nightblade could go ahead and incap below 120 unless using a combination without cc.

However- Incap and then fear results in shorter stun. I think this one is bugged. Edit- This might be working as intended. When Silence ends it awards cc immunity which would cause fear to stop working. I just don't know.

Lastly, remember that you cannot be feared if you have cc immunity from any source, immune potions, breaking free, the growing number of skills that give it to you free ... .

Dojohoda

LordTareq wrote: »

Does the silence also trigger CC immunity? Because that would really suck.

Yes. When silence is over, the toon receives cc immunity.

I tested that.
1.I used incap on a magblade.
2. The magblade was silenced, and then received cc immunity.
3. I tried fearing the magblade to make sure, and fear did not work.

Deathlord92

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Nightblade's time is up. Take a year off from the class and play something else. Your class has had these nerfs coming for YEARS. It's been long overdue - we might finally start seeing other classes flourish now that Nightblades have been brought back down to the other classes. Both stamina and magicka needed adjustment - I'm glad ZoS finally addressed this, but I wish it hadn't come at the cost of not focusing enough on improving the Necromancer class.

You will still get smashed by good nightblades fear not the class isn’t completely useless 🙂

master_vanargand

Please change the name of Incapacitating Strike to Incompetence Stripe.

ProzTh3Almighty

SnB Nightblade and reverb an see how many people think defile is too much on an ult.

Tommy_The_Gun

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Nightblade's time is up. Take a year off from the class and play something else. Your class has had these nerfs coming for YEARS. It's been long overdue - we might finally start seeing other classes flourish now that Nightblades have been brought back down to the other classes. Both stamina and magicka needed adjustment - I'm glad ZoS finally addressed this, but I wish it hadn't come at the cost of not focusing enough on improving the Necromancer class.

You... You do know what that means right ?
... More nerfs for everyone else (other classes that is) in the future...
Because this is how it works. ZOS nerfs stuff just because it is too popular, even though it may be balanced & ok-ish.
I mean... why else ZOS often nerfs stuff that literaly no1 says are OP ? Incap for example seemed to be nerfed "just in case" so no1 would have an idea to dare to use it.
Also NB lost a lot of its toolkit for the reason unknown to me.

If you play templar, then you probably know what I mean.

Vapirko

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

You do realize that Incap is still of the hardest hitting 75 cost ulti out there, right?
Seriously, as a stamNB PvPer, I can never understand these kind of complain. "Incap is nerfed to the ground", no it's not. It was on top of the food chain, and now it's not anymore, but it's no where near useless.

Stamina NBs are delicate creatures for the most part, they’re not used to having their class altered so drastically that it removes some identity. But sadly all classes have gone through this. Its true that incap was way overloaded, but I don’t understand the silence change even so. I guess it provides a unique angle against magicka builds but why I’m not sure.