Incap Changes in 5.0.4.

Vercingetorix

czar wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Necromancers are NOT a finished class and it's looking like they are going to get the Warden treatment - all because NBs couldn't just shut up about their nerfs and take them on the chin like an adult and ADAPT.

lmao you can't blame the players for zos not doing their job to your liking

When the focus of the PTS testing is players not using the new class and only complaining about not getting more buffs for their over-tuned class, it DOES become the players' fault. ZoS can't make changes if they aren't getting meaningful data back on Necros and any bugs associated with their abilities.

Sanguinor2

Its kinda sad for magblades honestly. Or rather for any class that is not a nightblade or a necromancer because the supposed class update barely changed any, magdk excluded, besides nightblades.
In their zeal to Change nightblades Zos (or a certain dev Maybe?) Chose to completely "balance" around heavy stamnb and forgot that magblades are the ones that Need help real bad (pvpwise) and also forgot that there are other classes that could also do with help or changes for actually usable class abilities and passives (hello stamplar, stamsorc and stamdk Maybe the next update will buff you because it might be the weapon skill line update? ).

Maulkin

Gnozo wrote: »

Silence on Incap is a bad idea in general and should be removed completly....

The new change just show how far Devs are from PvP in this game. Just seeing a Nightblade fearing someone and not being able to use Incap on its target....

Why incap needs to be this overloaded?

- Huge single target burst
- 20% increased damage taken
- Sustain just by slotting it

Why it needs more? Just remove the silence completly and it will still be a really good ultimate..... I thought we wanted to go away from overloaded skills? Now you just put everything into one ultimate that someone can ever dream of.... Wtf ZOS

Yeah, I don't get it either. Compare it with Take Flight, Crescent Sweep and Overload, it's so much better as a damage ult even without the Silence/Stun. Add that in and it's overloaded pure and simple.

Anyhow, did I understand correctly that if your enemy is CC immune, you can't cast Incap at all? Cause that would be terrible!

Iskiab

Vercingetorix wrote: »

czar wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Necromancers are NOT a finished class and it's looking like they are going to get the Warden treatment - all because NBs couldn't just shut up about their nerfs and take them on the chin like an adult and ADAPT.

lmao you can't blame the players for zos not doing their job to your liking

When the focus of the PTS testing is players not using the new class and only complaining about not getting more buffs for their over-tuned class, it DOES become the players' fault. ZoS can't make changes if they aren't getting meaningful data back on Necros and any bugs associated with their abilities.

Please. Magwarden’s already in a better spot then NB.

Insco851

Lol this needs so much clarification....

1. Does the CC break cost Stam (I expect it does)
2. Can you not incap a cc immune opponent at all? Or does it just not silence?
3. To further clarify #2... is fear>incap combo dead?
4. After breaking free of silence can you still be stunned or does it grant true CC immunity? (Templar bubble double cc comes to mind)
5. Is dawny Bis?
6. F you stamblades?

Synozeer

glavius wrote: »

And can a silenced enemy be stunned, or will he be stun immune?

This is an important question. If it gives the target CC immunity, it's actually worse than not having Silence at all, especially against stamina builds.

TequilaFire

Vercingetorix wrote: »

czar wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Necromancers are NOT a finished class and it's looking like they are going to get the Warden treatment - all because NBs couldn't just shut up about their nerfs and take them on the chin like an adult and ADAPT.

lmao you can't blame the players for zos not doing their job to your liking

When the focus of the PTS testing is players not using the new class and only complaining about not getting more buffs for their over-tuned class, it DOES become the players' fault. ZoS can't make changes if they aren't getting meaningful data back on Necros and any bugs associated with their abilities.

Well maybe they should do class updates separately from new content release instead of doing too many changes at once.
Besides there is plenty of feedback on Necros.
I made a Necro, but don't like the play style, different strokes for different folks.

Izaki

Umm... This change is even weirder. Like what have they done to nightblades? The abilities are a total mess! So many exceptions to the "rules" and whatnot. Just weird.

Tommy_The_Gun

btw. Wonder how many youtubers will make "response" videos now...

Insco851 wrote: »

Lol this needs so much clarification....

1. Does the CC break cost Stam (I expect it does)
2. Can you not incap a cc immune opponent at all? Or does it just not silence?
3. To further clarify #2... is fear>incap combo dead?
4. After breaking free of silence can you still be stunned or does it grant true CC immunity? (Templar bubble double cc comes to mind)
5. Is dawny Bis?
6. F you stamblades?

1. Yes
2. You can, but target wont be silenced.
3. Yes, it's dead Jim.
4. You gain CC immunity so most likely you cant be stunned, rooted, snared (Any hard CC).
5. Yes, but still build depended. Stam NB will use Dawnbreaker or Onslaught now. Some niche build will switch to Soul Harvest.
6. Yes ?

Insco851

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

btw. Wonder how many youtubers will make "response" videos now...

All of them, easy content

fred4

Excelsus wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I just love the fact that with this 5.0.4 change Incapacitating Strike went from being an auto-win against magicka builds to a mild inconvenience to both magicka and stamina builds. With the conclusion of this PTS and the lack of attention in the patch notes to anything else in their toolkit, Nightblades have now been effectively nerfed across the board, lmfao.

This patch was SUPPOSED to nerf Nightblades. That was the point. Every trial was 6 Nightblade dps and and 2 magplars. Heavy armor stamblades and Caalurion mageblades were enjoying an open season in Cyrodill. Somehow you guys cried your way out of most of the intended nerfs, got a few unneeded buffs (Reave, Silence, Grim Mitigation, Cripple Magicka Steal, free mark target, surprise attack armor pen, drain power damage buff, minor vulnerability etc etc...) and will remain the top pve dps class and one of the top pvp classes but are still mad cuz #nerfsarebad. Nerfs are a necessary part of game balance. Stop personalizing balance and focusing solely on the one class you play and look at the game as a whole. Nightblades got more focus this pts than the necromancer which is still an unfinished, buggy Warden 1.5.

I play a melee magicka NB in PvP. I did not ask for any of these changes. I got some buffs. I have advocated against buffing Lotus Fan (which I use). You're welcome to peruse my forum history. All this BS is coming from ZOS themselves as far as I can tell. They decided to take a pass over NB for what I now think are questionable reasons. I've been trying to give Gilliam credit, but the more I think about it, the more I think the overall direction of stamblade has indeed been influenced by his specific playstyle. He might argue that's a good direction. I'm pretty sure he ranted about making incremental changes on YouTube, rather than these big rebalances, before he joined ZOS. The way this patch has evolved, I'm not sure the guy has any integrity left. That's probably not fair, as he's working in a team, but good god, patch 5.0.3 should never have existed and this face-saving fix is BS.

czar

Vercingetorix wrote: »

czar wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Necromancers are NOT a finished class and it's looking like they are going to get the Warden treatment - all because NBs couldn't just shut up about their nerfs and take them on the chin like an adult and ADAPT.

lmao you can't blame the players for zos not doing their job to your liking

When the focus of the PTS testing is players not using the new class and only complaining about not getting more buffs for their over-tuned class, it DOES become the players' fault. ZoS can't make changes if they aren't getting meaningful data back on Necros and any bugs associated with their abilities.

You make it sound like absolutely no one even tried Necromancer on the PTS. I'm sure you know that's not true. ZOS choose their own priorities. You can't say that they both listen too much to their players, and at the same time say they don't listen at all. Even if they were so distracted by these loud players, that's not the players' responsibility lol.

Sandman929

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Iskiab

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Err, what? What class was in a worse spot then NB for pvp?

The general consensus from best on worst on live is:

Stamwarden, Magsorc
MagWarden, MagDK
StamDK, Stamsorc
Templars
Nightblades

Then opinions change depending on some people who need to L2P and blame the class for their own failures. I see tons of classes and players, I don’t play a stamblade and think it’s underpowered, I say they’re terrible from seeing how they perform.

Sandman929

Iskiab wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Err, what? What class was in a worse spot then NB for pvp?

The general consensus from best on worst on live is:

Stamwarden, Magsorc
MagWarden, MagDK
StamDK, Stamsorc
Templars
Nightblades

Then opinions change depending on some people who need to L2P and blame the class for their own failures. I see tons of classes and players, I don’t play a stamblade and think it’s underpowered, I say they’re terrible from seeing how they perform.

It's always handy when you can label your opinion as the "general consensus" first.

Iskiab

Sandman929 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Err, what? What class was in a worse spot then NB for pvp?

The general consensus from best on worst on live is:

Stamwarden, Magsorc
MagWarden, MagDK
StamDK, Stamsorc
Templars
Nightblades

Then opinions change depending on some people who need to L2P and blame the class for their own failures. I see tons of classes and players, I don’t play a stamblade and think it’s underpowered, I say they’re terrible from seeing how they perform.

It's always handy when you can label your opinion as the "general consensus" first.

Look in the battleground forums, there was a poll but in the comments you’ll see the opinions of more experienced players. Stamblades are considered powerful only by weaker pvp players while figuring it out. Once people learn how to play they aren’t effective at all.

Insco851

Iskiab wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Err, what? What class was in a worse spot then NB for pvp?

The general consensus from best on worst on live is:

Stamwarden, Magsorc
MagWarden, MagDK
StamDK, Stamsorc
Templars
Nightblades

Then opinions change depending on some people who need to L2P and blame the class for their own failures. I see tons of classes and players, I don’t play a stamblade and think it’s underpowered, I say they’re terrible from seeing how they perform.

That looks like a BG’s best to worst honestly. That doesn’t translate to cp open world. In CP-OW Stamblade gets pushed up there with Magsorc and stamwarden.

Let me add, there’s is no definitive best to worst that successfully encompasses all areas and scenarios. Except Magsorc is top dawg in all formats.

Joy_Division

Iskiab wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Err, what? What class was in a worse spot then NB for pvp?

The general consensus from best on worst on live is:

Stamwarden, Magsorc
MagWarden, MagDK
StamDK, Stamsorc
Templars
Nightblades

Then opinions change depending on some people who need to L2P and blame the class for their own failures. I see tons of classes and players, I don’t play a stamblade and think it’s underpowered, I say they’re terrible from seeing how they perform.

MagWarden 2nd tier? Stamblade last tier?

What exactly is this a tier of? Troll tank specs that can't kill decent players?

Xvorg

Please, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, explain me, how do I break silence with a 10K stam pool? Isn't enough to have to block, break from stun, dodge roll from roots AND run with that pool?

If we are going back to patch 1.3, please, do things right. This Frankenstein you are making of PvP goes nowhere.

Just make the silence break free from magicka, or just get rid of silence and go back to the stun.

BaylorCorvette

Joy_Division wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Err, what? What class was in a worse spot then NB for pvp?

The general consensus from best on worst on live is:

Stamwarden, Magsorc
MagWarden, MagDK
StamDK, Stamsorc
Templars
Nightblades

Then opinions change depending on some people who need to L2P and blame the class for their own failures. I see tons of classes and players, I don’t play a stamblade and think it’s underpowered, I say they’re terrible from seeing how they perform.

MagWarden 2nd tier? Stamblade last tier?

What exactly is this a tier of? Troll tank specs that can't kill decent players?

LMAO, this. StamNB on live right now is very strong.

Lughlongarm

Seems to me like devs are doing everything they can just to avoid adding another mechanic to game. They basically want the "daze" effect from gw2. Just add that to game instead of changing the consistency of the silence effect also while making the ulti, ineffective vs stamina(I don't believe dev intended this morph to be effective vs stamina, they just wanted weaker stun and they only had silence to work with) .

Xvorg

Insco851 wrote: »

Lol this needs so much clarification....

1. Does the CC break cost Stam (I expect it does)
2. Can you not incap a cc immune opponent at all? Or does it just not silence?
3. To further clarify #2... is fear>incap combo dead?
4. After breaking free of silence can you still be stunned or does it grant true CC immunity? (Templar bubble double cc comes to mind)
5. Is dawny Bis?
6. F you stamblades?

I'm sure they charge double stam for breaking both because the way they program is idiotic!

wheem_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Err, what? What class was in a worse spot then NB for pvp?

The general consensus from best on worst on live is:

Stamwarden, Magsorc
MagWarden, MagDK
StamDK, Stamsorc
Templars
Nightblades

Then opinions change depending on some people who need to L2P and blame the class for their own failures. I see tons of classes and players, I don’t play a stamblade and think it’s underpowered, I say they’re terrible from seeing how they perform.

It's always handy when you can label your opinion as the "general consensus" first.

Look in the battleground forums, there was a poll but in the comments you’ll see the opinions of more experienced players. Stamblades are considered powerful only by weaker pvp players while figuring it out. Once people learn how to play they aren’t effective at all.

That's not entirely accurate; Stamblades were generally considered weak in organized teams, and powerful in less organized games. They actually have a lot in common with offensively-oriented Magicka Wardens in that regard (and the same is about to be true for Magicka Necromancers, since ZOS has seemingly refused to correct any of their issues).

DeadlyRecluse

Putting this into the hard CC system is a perfect adjustment, imo.

It's a unique CC, it's not a very good CC as it can be ignored or broken depending on the build, and it's a slight nerf to a class that is very strong.

Izaki

Sandman929 wrote: »

After all the posts joking about how they were probably trying to shoehorn in some dumb way to keep this original bad idea alive, that's exactly what they went and did.

Now it's a officially a NB nerf and still a dumb idea. NBs were fine, the other classes needed some attention.

Its what they always do anyway. Once something is in their minds, you can be 99% sure that in some way/shape/form that idea will be on the live server. Cast time on shields was that part of that 1%.

Insco851

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Putting this into the hard CC system is a perfect adjustment, imo.

It's a unique CC, it's not a very good CC as it can be ignored or broken depending on the build, and it's a slight nerf to a class that is very strong.

Super weak CC even to mag classes as long as it can’t be combined with fear.

Cagro

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

IMO stun was better and more fair, I still dont get it why they changed it to end up with a breakable silence.

Elder Scrolls Online is a good game but the changes the developers keep making to active skills and racial passives are weird. They should keep things simple so they do not confuse and frustrate players. This skill is a perfect example of their weirdness. Why will I want a breakable silence when I can stun with a different ability?

Insco851

Cagro wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

IMO stun was better and more fair, I still dont get it why they changed it to end up with a breakable silence.

Elder Scrolls Online is a good game but the changes the developers keep making to active skills and racial passives are weird. They should keep things simple so they do not confuse and frustrate players. This skill is a perfect example of their weirdness. Why will I want a breakable silence when I can stun with a different ability?

Stamblade rockin the soul harvest morph 10/10

Chilly-McFreeze

Cagro wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

IMO stun was better and more fair, I still dont get it why they changed it to end up with a breakable silence.

Elder Scrolls Online is a good game but the changes the developers keep making to active skills and racial passives are weird. They should keep things simple so they do not confuse and frustrate players. This skill is a perfect example of their weirdness. Why will I want a breakable silence when I can stun with a different ability?

TBF most (!) of the racial stuff was at least okay and overall races are closer together now. Sure, 2-3 wierd and bad exceptions.
I'm also not sure what I should prefer: is it better to have a clear vision and follow that through with just minor adjustments or shall is it better to make those huge jumps like in this patch on NBs that don't seem to have a fixed aim.

But anyway, we have still the usual, untested surprise changes when stuff goes live.

Emma_Overload

Gilvoth wrote: »

please take notice of what happens on this forums.
if there is a nerf to nightblades it is done with very little effect and we swallow it accept it and learn to still kill people in other ways.
but when a nerf happens that effects magicka builds or anything that magicka builds dont like then we see a huge uproar in threads and complaints that everything is changed to not only remove that nerf but also attack and nerf even more to nightlbades and thier class skills even further.

here in this thread we see that in full effect.

PREPOSTEROUS!

The reason NBs don't complain much is because deep down they know how lucky they are. You guys have NEVER been nerfed. EVER! Not with a *real* nerf. If they gave Cloak an exponentially increasing cost like Bolt Escape, THAT would be a nerf. You guys get tweaks, not nerfs. Don't even talk to me about nerfs.

LOL, even when you guys get buffs, like 15% mitigation just for weaving light attacks, you guys cry as if you've been nerfed. Do unappreciated buffs count as nerfs for you guys? Stop while you're ahead!