Incap Changes in 5.0.4.

Galarthor

Incapacitating Strike: The Silence from this ability can now be CC broken, and cannot be activated on targets who are already affected by a CC effect.
Note that this change is exclusive to Incapacitating Strike, and will not apply to other Silences, such as Negate Magic, since those are area effect-based pulsing durations, versus instantaneous duration-based effects.

Developer Comment: As mentioned in the 5.0.3 patch notes, the goal with the change to Incapacitating Strike’s conditional bonus was to tone down some of the shut-down mechanic to it, since Silences are essentially stuns that allow the target to continue moving, blocking, and dodging. We are aware of the nature that Silences have in terms of effectiveness on varying builds, which is why we found the ability to CC break this effect would be an ideal compromise; it still has the counter play options of a traditional stun, but no longer needs to always be broken.

How about we get some abilities that hurt stamina builds but are harmless to magicka builds for a change? It's not enough that magicka builds have already had negate only affecting them and were lacking counters to roots and slows, no the magicka bashing has had to continue ... . We are 5 years into the game and we are still waiting for a "Silence" equivalent to stamina builds.

rafaelcsmaia

IMO stun was better and more fair, I still dont get it why they changed it to end up with a breakable silence.

Gnozo

Silence on Incap is a bad idea in general and should be removed completly....

The new change just show how far Devs are from PvP in this game. Just seeing a Nightblade fearing someone and not being able to use Incap on its target....

Why incap needs to be this overloaded?

- Huge single target burst
- 20% increased damage taken
- Sustain just by slotting it

Why it needs more? Just remove the silence completly and it will still be a really good ultimate..... I thought we wanted to go away from overloaded skills? Now you just put everything into one ultimate that someone can ever dream of.... Wtf ZOS

highnds

So will the cc break of silence drain magicka or stamina resources?

GeorgeBlack

Because the point was to nerf it.
And it's nerfed.
Magika builds are not being shut down.
Incap is nerfed against stamina builds and to a lesser extend against magika builds.
There you have it.
Now buff stamDK
Nerf SnB
Nerf DB
Nerf sorc
Delete Fury

darkblue5

I mean maybe when stamina healers are a real thing and there are reasonable stamina support skills? Part of the reason that Silence is the way it is is that there is still an imbalance as far as what sorts of and strength of effects mag builds have access to compared with stam builds.

Also new Incap is unslottable unless you're going around only targeting magicka builds with it and calling that "target selection" and "skill intensive play". Even then might not be slottable except in the highest of lag where no one can reliably break free.

Kolzki

Wow, more incap threads. I have a question though. Does immovabiliy now grant immunity to this pseudo-CC?

Gilvoth

please take notice of what happens on this forums.
if there is a nerf to nightblades it is done with very little effect and we swallow it accept it and learn to still kill people in other ways.
but when a nerf happens that effects magicka builds or anything that magicka builds dont like then we see a huge uproar in threads and complaints that everything is changed to not only remove that nerf but also attack and nerf even more to nightlbades and thier class skills even further.

here in this thread we see that in full effect.

Vercingetorix

I just love the fact that with this 5.0.4 change Incapacitating Strike went from being an auto-win against magicka builds to a mild inconvenience to both magicka and stamina builds. With the conclusion of this PTS and the lack of attention in the patch notes to anything else in their toolkit, Nightblades have now been effectively nerfed across the board, lmfao.

EDIT: I'd like to emphasize the fact that I actually SUPPORT the nerf Nightlabdes got - it's been long overdue. I'm not complaining in any way about the nerfs. Relax.

glavius

Kolzki wrote: »

Wow, more incap threads. I have a question though. Does immovabiliy now grant immunity to this pseudo-CC?

Can someone test if this means incap can't be used on a cc'ed target at all, or if it can but the silence part just won't work?

olsborg

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Nerf SnB
Nerf DB

Agreed.

Chilly-McFreeze

Does it grant general cc immunity after breaking free?

glavius

And can a silenced enemy be stunned, or will he be stun immune?

GeorgeBlack

olsborg wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Nerf SnB
Nerf DB

Agreed.

Why do you select what's convenient for you?
As a stamDK I've put down what I find OP, fury and snb

wheem_ESO

darkblue5 wrote: »

I mean maybe when stamina healers are a real thing and there are reasonable stamina support skills? Part of the reason that Silence is the way it is is that there is still an imbalance as far as what sorts of and strength of effects mag builds have access to compared with stam builds.

Also new Incap is unslottable unless you're going around only targeting magicka builds with it and calling that "target selection" and "skill intensive play". Even then might not be slottable except in the highest of lag where no one can reliably break free.

Silence is anti-Magicka, not anti-healing. All Magicka abilities get shut down; damage, healing, CC, other utility - *all* of it. Meanwhile, Stamina builds can still use the vast majority of their toolkit outside of Ultimates, including their heals. And if a Stamina build gets hit with an Incap and doesn't desperately need a Streak or something within the next 3 seconds, they essentially gain CC immunity for free.

Incap just needs to go back to being a stun, or not CC at all. The Stamina-dominance is getting old.

Deep_01

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Because the point was to nerf it.
And it's nerfed.
Magika builds are not being shut down.
Incap is nerfed against stamina builds and to a lesser extend against magika builds.
There you have it.
Now buff stamDK
Nerf SnB
Nerf DB
Nerf sorc
Delete Fury

seriously?

Grandesdar

Gilvoth wrote: »

please take notice of what happens on this forums.
if there is a nerf to nightblades it is done with very little effect and we swallow it accept it and learn to still kill people in other ways.
but when a nerf happens that effects magicka builds or anything that magicka builds dont like then we see a huge uproar in threads and complaints that everything is changed to not only remove that nerf but also attack and nerf even more to nightlbades and thier class skills even further.

here in this thread we see that in full effect.

Same thing happened when they nerfed mag shields and they still had more survivability than stamblade, they complained and now they have better than ever shields. I don't play either enough to side with one, but it is a fact magicka users are the ones with the loudest voices, hence this weird worse-than-stun CC.

Anhedonie

Time to main green magicka build, guys.

Galarthor

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

IMO stun was better and more fair, I still dont get it why they changed it to end up with a breakable silence.

I agree. I'd rather see it have a stun than just a Silence. The stun will be more dangerous b/c you cannot dodge, block, or sprint during it BUT at least it affects all types of builds!

In general I agree with @Gnozo though. That ulti does not really need a stun in the first place. It's damage + the 20% increased damage dealt on target is enough!

Deathlord92

I main stamblade but I also love magblade I was hoping for a good self heal nb as a class is awesome show some love to the magblade 🙏

Excelsus

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I just love the fact that with this 5.0.4 change Incapacitating Strike went from being an auto-win against magicka builds to a mild inconvenience to both magicka and stamina builds. With the conclusion of this PTS and the lack of attention in the patch notes to anything else in their toolkit, Nightblades have now been effectively nerfed across the board, lmfao.

This patch was SUPPOSED to nerf Nightblades. That was the point. Every trial was 6 Nightblade dps and and 2 magplars. Heavy armor stamblades and Caalurion mageblades were enjoying an open season in Cyrodill. Somehow you guys cried your way out of most of the intended nerfs, got a few unneeded buffs (Reave, Silence, Grim Mitigation, Cripple Magicka Steal, free mark target, surprise attack armor pen, drain power damage buff, minor vulnerability etc etc...) and will remain the top pve dps class and one of the top pvp classes but are still mad cuz #nerfsarebad. Nerfs are a necessary part of game balance. Stop personalizing balance and focusing solely on the one class you play and look at the game as a whole. Nightblades got more focus this pts than the necromancer which is still an unfinished, buggy Warden 1.5.

Galarthor

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I main stamblade but I also love magblade I was hoping for a good self heal nb as a class is awesome show some love to the magblade 🙏

ZOS is showing you some love. Tough love! Next time you meet your stamina Brethren they will be able to stun you, while you will be unable to stun them with the same ability.

Tryxus

So it's a biased stun now? Lovely...

fred4

What a lazy fix. This ability still discriminates against magicka builds for no good reason. Disgusting.

Vapirko

Just re-roll to stam necro and hit people with 30k aoe bash, it’s all good.

Iskiab

Wow, incap looks like it will be useless now. It’s not the end of the world, dawnbreaker on every stamina class now in pvp?

Tommy_The_Gun

Bigger question is, if you CC break from silence (since this is a special case), will you be affected by fear or any other form of CC afterwards ? If not, then I think that almost no1 will use this ulti...

So is it only me or this ulti morph is completely busted now ?

Vercingetorix

Excelsus wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I just love the fact that with this 5.0.4 change Incapacitating Strike went from being an auto-win against magicka builds to a mild inconvenience to both magicka and stamina builds. With the conclusion of this PTS and the lack of attention in the patch notes to anything else in their toolkit, Nightblades have now been effectively nerfed across the board, lmfao.

This patch was SUPPOSED to nerf Nightblades. That was the point. Every trial was 6 Nightblade dps and and 2 magplars. Heavy armor stamblades and Caalurion mageblades were enjoying an open season in Cyrodill. Somehow you guys cried your way out of most of the intended nerfs, got a few unneeded buffs (Reave, Silence, Grim Mitigation, Cripple Magicka Steal, free mark target, surprise attack armor pen, drain power damage buff, minor vulnerability etc etc...) and will remain the top pve dps class and one of the top pvp classes but are still mad cuz #nerfsarebad. Nerfs are a necessary part of game balance. Stop personalizing balance and focusing solely on the one class you play and look at the game as a whole. Nightblades got more focus this pts than the necromancer which is still an unfinished, buggy Warden 1.5.

Relax, I haven't played as a NB in over 2 years. I'm GLAD they got nerfed into the ground. It's been long overdue. NB players complain and waste ZoS' dev time on tuning their already over-tuned class when there are more important things to worry about like the unfinished magicka Warden and now the Necromancer class. Necromancers are NOT a finished class and it's looking like they are going to get the Warden treatment - all because NBs couldn't just shut up about their nerfs and take them on the chin like an adult and ADAPT. Necromancers can't adapt if they have nothing to adapt to - same goes for magicka wardens. ZoS dropped the ball - again - on another chapter release.

darkblue5

Excelsus wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I just love the fact that with this 5.0.4 change Incapacitating Strike went from being an auto-win against magicka builds to a mild inconvenience to both magicka and stamina builds. With the conclusion of this PTS and the lack of attention in the patch notes to anything else in their toolkit, Nightblades have now been effectively nerfed across the board, lmfao.

This patch was SUPPOSED to nerf Nightblades. That was the point. Every trial was 6 Nightblade dps and and 2 magplars. Heavy armor stamblades and Caalurion mageblades were enjoying an open season in Cyrodill. Somehow you guys cried your way out of most of the intended nerfs, got a few unneeded buffs (Reave, Silence, Grim Mitigation, Cripple Magicka Steal, free mark target, surprise attack armor pen, drain power damage buff, minor vulnerability etc etc...) and will remain the top pve dps class and one of the top pvp classes but are still mad cuz #nerfsarebad. Nerfs are a necessary part of game balance. Stop personalizing balance and focusing solely on the one class you play and look at the game as a whole. Nightblades got more focus this pts than the necromancer which is still an unfinished, buggy Warden 1.5.

I mean to be fair Caalurion's gankblades in live are the only not terrible magblade build on live besides, what, big group bombers? Other gank builds can work too with say Spell Strategist and Spinner's. It's not that great and only ganking is pretty restricting. Also, you can gank harder on stamblade and actually get away on live anyways.

Acting like pvp magblade was in a good spot on live is not reasonable. That's not even considering the coming AOE damage meta.

czar

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Necromancers are NOT a finished class and it's looking like they are going to get the Warden treatment - all because NBs couldn't just shut up about their nerfs and take them on the chin like an adult and ADAPT.

lmao you can't blame the players for zos not doing their job to your liking

darkblue5

fred4 wrote: »

What a lazy fix. This ability still discriminates against magicka builds for no good reason. Disgusting.

It's basically a stun that you can move during and LOS out of damage. I guess block canceling it could make it kind of confusing. I just know some people will only attack people with staves with this skill on their bar and unslot it otherwise. DBoS is probably better against magbuilds now anyways because it at least actually stuns and secures further burst.