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vMA token / fragment system
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
Because the math is inconvenient to such a dramatic and false argument. They feel entitled so it does not matter to them.1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Of course I am all for this, as I have already voiced such an opinion.
My suggestion was to have special material drop from deconstructed vMA weapons that you can trade for weapons.
Weapons can then be bought with such "tokens", where I believe a number of tokens like 20 should be healthy.
20 deconned weapons = one weapon of choice.
That being said, the amount of effort required to get vMA weapons nowadays is nowhere near the amount of effort needed before the Transmutation system was implemented.
Also, DPS has skyrocketed since then.1 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
But that is all beside the point, some people simply do not wish to run the damn place 100's of time to be "virtually guaranteed" as you put it. Hence the reason we want tokens in the first place.Edited by Neoealth on April 25, 2019 9:25PM2 -
Jamdarius✭✭✭✭✭
"13 runs through vMA gives you the 50 crystals needed to transmute, and a 67.7% chance of getting the weapon type you desire."
13 runs with the same chance is still the same chance, chance for drop does not magically increase by doing more runs, each run you have the same small % chance, otherwise people would not be ruining themselves with 80 VMA's done and 0 flame staff or even 0 any magicka weapon at that. You just gotta get lucky I would say or pray to RNGesus, some do vMA just to get bow and I had it on my 1st run ever, however I am not even using it and would gladly trade it for flame staff because it is simply 2 big of a pain to do same content over and over and get trash most of the time...
I am up for any idea that would give us possibility of getting those weapons we desire, be it token or trade.2 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
I personally love "I did XYZ over 100 times" testimonies.
Right...
Obviously you would sooner believe the whole game is rigged than take some whiners' testimony with a grain of salt.0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points3 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
2 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
A mathematician won't go to Vegas and bet his money because he can actually calculate his odds.2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
A mathematician won't go to Vegas and bet his money because he can actually calculate his odds.
This.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭^^^^
That.
All Brinks has shown is how extremely unlikely your repeated comment is. Zos is smart enough to see through that and move on.Edited by idk on April 25, 2019 9:46PM2 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
2 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
A mathematician won't go to Vegas and bet his money because he can actually calculate his odds.
You know what I do with general sweeping statements?
In the trash bin they go.. weeeee0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
A mathematician won't go to Vegas and bet his money because he can actually calculate his odds.
You know what I do with general sweeping statements?
In the trash bin they go.. weeeee
It'll be right at home with your flawed statistical understanding.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points0 -
AndyMac✭✭✭✭✭The vMA weapon grind is real - I’d support a token system of some kind.
I’ve got all the weapons I’ll need from vMA but it was blind luck really.
Edited by AndyMac on April 25, 2019 10:17PMAndymac - Magicka DK - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror2 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons.0 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭
Why dont you stop being lazy and salty and just farm the weapon. You only need to get the weapon once, doesnt even matter the trait, you're lucky you never had to farm it pre clockwork
You're not gonna get the weapon faster crying on the forums
Excuse me princess. But I already have my weapon. This idea is not for my own benifit but for all players.
Boo hoo, god forbid you have to run vma more than 20 times to get a singular staff or bow
Stop trying to be a hero buddy0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
The only thing wrong is your understanding of statistics.
You are correct that a math genius is not needed, but basic knowledge and understanding of it which is all brinks has shown. Your argument on that note seems to be both petty and personal. it is sad when ones argument relies on geting personal and tries to discredit someone with such crazy ideas.0 -
mzprx✭✭✭✭✭...Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
like i've mentioned a page back, it took me over 200 runs to get 1 (one) lightning staff that i wanted..
0 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
The only thing wrong is your understanding of statistics.
You are correct that a math genius is not needed, but basic knowledge and understanding of it which is all brinks has shown. Your argument on that note seems to be both petty and personal. it is sad when ones argument relies on geting personal and tries to discredit someone with such crazy ideas.
I'm going to just ignore you because you're incoherent.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
Just FYI. You are the one who made this about math. I will provide your comments for you to remind you. Also, when you make it about math you better know what you are talking about.It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.
It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.
If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.
The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.
So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means.
Both are you making this about math and there are other comments where you seem to be the one who does not understand what random means when Brinks has clearly shown the relative math..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math.
So making this a mathematical argument, despite your denials, then saying you have not challenged Brinks on math even when you said he does not understand what random (math) is holds a great deal of irony here.
Sorry to provide your own words that contrast some of your own claims. Do not shoot the messenger.Edited by idk on April 25, 2019 11:02PM1 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭60+ runs in vMA and nMA and counting for me ... no Winterborn Ice Staff.
Players looking for a vMA Inferno Staff have it easy.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »60+ runs in vMA and nMA and counting for me ... no Winterborn Ice Staff.
Players looking for a vMA Inferno Staff have it easy.
Does that drop on vet? Serious question as I would expect chances are greater, at least, on normal. I do not look at my loot over than vMA weapons.0 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
Just FYI. You are the one who made this about math. I will provide your comments for you to remind you. Also, when you make it about math you better know what you are talking about.It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.
It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.
If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.
The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.
So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means.
Both are you making this about math and there are other comments where you seem to be the one who does not understand what random means when Brinks has clearly shown the relative math..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math.
So making this a mathematical argument, despite your denials, then saying you have not challenged Brinks on math even when you said he does not understand what random (math) is holds a great deal of irony here.
Sorry to provide your own words that contrast some of your own claims. Do not shoot the messenger.
You ignored all the other posts where he began the argument about maths. Look at my very first post. It was a simple statement based on opinion.
It was only in later posts i brought up about him not understanding what random really means. And it was him who got personal with me when he said my math teacher should be ashamed. Maybe you two need to get a room.
I said I'd ignore you, but i felt i should defend myself. Go troll someone else. If you can't understand the simple idea behind tokens that is your problem. Go waste someone elses time.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
Just FYI. You are the one who made this about math. I will provide your comments for you to remind you. Also, when you make it about math you better know what you are talking about.It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.
It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.
If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.
The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.
So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means.
Both are you making this about math and there are other comments where you seem to be the one who does not understand what random means when Brinks has clearly shown the relative math..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math.
So making this a mathematical argument, despite your denials, then saying you have not challenged Brinks on math even when you said he does not understand what random (math) is holds a great deal of irony here.
Sorry to provide your own words that contrast some of your own claims. Do not shoot the messenger.
You ignored all the other posts where he began the argument about maths. Look at my very first post. It was a simple statement based on opinion.
It was only in later posts i brought up about him not understanding what random really means. And it was him who got personal with me when he said my math teacher should be ashamed. Maybe you two need to get a room.
I said I'd ignore you, but i felt i should defend myself. Go troll someone else. If you can't understand the simple idea behind tokens that is your problem. Go waste someone elses time.
Seeing as how many of your previous posts are now edited... I can't see where you actually started out insulting my opinion (which I used math to support), so there's that now.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points0 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
Just FYI. You are the one who made this about math. I will provide your comments for you to remind you. Also, when you make it about math you better know what you are talking about.It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.
It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.
If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.
The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.
So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means.
Both are you making this about math and there are other comments where you seem to be the one who does not understand what random means when Brinks has clearly shown the relative math..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math.
So making this a mathematical argument, despite your denials, then saying you have not challenged Brinks on math even when you said he does not understand what random (math) is holds a great deal of irony here.
Sorry to provide your own words that contrast some of your own claims. Do not shoot the messenger.
You ignored all the other posts where he began the argument about maths. Look at my very first post. It was a simple statement based on opinion.
It was only in later posts i brought up about him not understanding what random really means. And it was him who got personal with me when he said my math teacher should be ashamed. Maybe you two need to get a room.
I said I'd ignore you, but i felt i should defend myself. Go troll someone else. If you can't understand the simple idea behind tokens that is your problem. Go waste someone elses time.
Seeing as how many of your previous posts are now edited... I can't see where you actually started out insulting my opinion (which I used math to support), so there's that now.
Some of my posts are edited to correct mis typed words. I am using my phone and often fat finger the wrong letters. I've not actually changed what i said in any posts.
Literally all i said which you seem to claim is an "insult" is i didn't believe you understand the nature of randomness.
I stand by that. If you find that insulting then i'd suggest growing a thicker skin.
Ironically it's you who technically got insulting with your "math teacher should be ashamed" comment.
Look i have wasted enough time on you now. This will be my last comment on this matter. So if the last word makes you feel better, go ahead. I won't be baited any further.0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
Just FYI. You are the one who made this about math. I will provide your comments for you to remind you. Also, when you make it about math you better know what you are talking about.It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.
It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.
If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.
The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.
So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means.
Both are you making this about math and there are other comments where you seem to be the one who does not understand what random means when Brinks has clearly shown the relative math..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math.
So making this a mathematical argument, despite your denials, then saying you have not challenged Brinks on math even when you said he does not understand what random (math) is holds a great deal of irony here.
Sorry to provide your own words that contrast some of your own claims. Do not shoot the messenger.
You ignored all the other posts where he began the argument about maths. Look at my very first post. It was a simple statement based on opinion.
It was only in later posts i brought up about him not understanding what random really means. And it was him who got personal with me when he said my math teacher should be ashamed. Maybe you two need to get a room.
I said I'd ignore you, but i felt i should defend myself. Go troll someone else. If you can't understand the simple idea behind tokens that is your problem. Go waste someone elses time.
Seeing as how many of your previous posts are now edited... I can't see where you actually started out insulting my opinion (which I used math to support), so there's that now.
Some of my posts are edited to correct mis typed words. I am using my phone and often fat finger the wrong letters. I've not actually changed what i said in any posts.
Literally all i said which you seem to claim is an "insult" is i didn't believe you understand the nature of randomness.
I stand by that. If you find that insulting then i'd suggest growing a thicker skin.
Ironically it's you who technically got insulting with your "math teacher should be ashamed" comment.
Look i have wasted enough time on you now. This will be my last comment on this matter. So if the last word makes you feel better, go ahead. I won't be baited any further.
they're basically the same comment... lol
Good luck with avoidance technique, to make yourself feel "like you've won". It's the same technique my nephew uses (he's 4... lol)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
Just FYI. You are the one who made this about math. I will provide your comments for you to remind you. Also, when you make it about math you better know what you are talking about.It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.
It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.
If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.
The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.
So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means.
Both are you making this about math and there are other comments where you seem to be the one who does not understand what random means when Brinks has clearly shown the relative math..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math.
So making this a mathematical argument, despite your denials, then saying you have not challenged Brinks on math even when you said he does not understand what random (math) is holds a great deal of irony here.
Sorry to provide your own words that contrast some of your own claims. Do not shoot the messenger.
You ignored all the other posts where he began the argument about maths. Look at my very first post. It was a simple statement based on opinion.
It was only in later posts i brought up about him not understanding what random really means. And it was him who got personal with me when he said my math teacher should be ashamed. Maybe you two need to get a room.
I said I'd ignore you, but i felt i should defend myself. Go troll someone else. If you can't understand the simple idea behind tokens that is your problem. Go waste someone elses time.
Seeing as how many of your previous posts are now edited... I can't see where you actually started out insulting my opinion (which I used math to support), so there's that now.
Some of my posts are edited to correct mis typed words. I am using my phone and often fat finger the wrong letters. I've not actually changed what i said in any posts.
Literally all i said which you seem to claim is an "insult" is i didn't believe you understand the nature of randomness.
I stand by that. If you find that insulting then i'd suggest growing a thicker skin.
Ironically it's you who technically got insulting with your "math teacher should be ashamed" comment.
Look i have wasted enough time on you now. This will be my last comment on this matter. So if the last word makes you feel better, go ahead. I won't be baited any further.
And literally one of my first quotes of you has the original post, and your "edit" ha an entire paragraph added in after the fact
I really, really don't like liars. The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Xalvakka's Scourge - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger71,345 achievement points0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
Just FYI. You are the one who made this about math. I will provide your comments for you to remind you. Also, when you make it about math you better know what you are talking about.It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.
It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.
If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.
The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.
So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means.
Both are you making this about math and there are other comments where you seem to be the one who does not understand what random means when Brinks has clearly shown the relative math..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math. This whole time I've been trying to get it through your head that is a matter of preference.
Though i do agree with you on your assertion that mmo's tend to rely on rng. It is just the nature if this buisness model to keep people playing. However they do often take steps to reduce grinds. As you mentioned they implemented the transmuting crystals. Taking it one step futher with tokens to reduce the grind even further is not unreasonable.
I doubt zos needs to force people to stay in vma, there is so much to do in the game. Why drive players to despair when it's not needed? And again i should point out, I'm not even arguing for my own benefit since i already have my vma weapons..Soul19reaper wrote: »Soul19reaper wrote: »Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.
Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).
So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.
See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.
Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh
What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.
I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.
And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.
"Participation Trophy Generation"
Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.
Exactly lol
Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.
I don't think you really understand what random means. The fact we have testimony from many gamers saying they have done the place 100's of times before they get their weapon of choice is proof that there is a problem, some are even very unlucky are are still trying for their weapon.
Try to think like a human being and not a computer. It's not all about working out your chances by the percentage. True random could be the same weapon every time for 100 runs. As mentioned previously, very unlikely but possible.
Ever heard the saying " the dice has no memory"?
SIgh, I guess my degree in mathematics doesn't qualify me to talk about statistics with you...
Statistics don't lie. Math doesn't lie. Your interpretation is flat out wrong, and your previous math teachers should be ashamed.
You seem insistent about making this about math and now you're making it personal. All that was proposed was a simple token system to make the game less tedious. It's a matter of personal choice not math skill. lol Do you know how pretentious you sound?
Do me a favor, go to Vegas with your cocky attitude and get back to me in a few months. Let me know how bad your debt is.
You are the one who keeps bringing up numbers. Brinks is just showing you how extremely wrong you are. However, I understand you, that being melodramatic, not matter how far fetched the statement, helps drive home a point with those that do not know better.
Regardless, there is that inconvenient fact that Zos has clearly said no to a token system.
Except that is wrong. All I did was give a basic idea of tokens to eliminate grind. It's he who has used math to argue, when in my opinion it's not about calculating mathematical odds, it's a very very simple matter of preference, do you want your grind to be for a unknown period of time (albeit can be predicted using math to calculate your odds) or do you want the certainty which tokens would bring (as in you know for a fact you will get your weapon after a set amount of runs if you don't get lucky before then)
Very simple. No need for internet math geniuses to intervene with their self appointed apparent brilliance.
What are you the self appointed thing of in that case? Since obviously your opinion is the god-like one here...
fallible reasoning?
misconstruing statistics?
A core mechanic of MMOs is RNG... take that out, and it's no longer an MMO... I used the numbers to point out the massive reduction ZoS already made to the "RNG" of the RNG by adding in transmutation. Less than 35 runs to have a virtually guaranteed drop for a BiS weapon... doesn't seem too extreme to me. (and that's an OPINION before you jump down my throat again)
It is not a mathematical argument. I've not even challenged you on your math.
So making this a mathematical argument, despite your denials, then saying you have not challenged Brinks on math even when you said he does not understand what random (math) is holds a great deal of irony here.
Sorry to provide your own words that contrast some of your own claims. Do not shoot the messenger.
You ignored all the other posts where he began the argument about maths. Look at my very first post. It was a simple statement based on opinion.
It was only in later posts i brought up about him not understanding what random really means. And it was him who got personal with me when he said my math teacher should be ashamed. Maybe you two need to get a room.
I said I'd ignore you, but i felt i should defend myself. Go troll someone else. If you can't understand the simple idea behind tokens that is your problem. Go waste someone elses time.
I merely pointed out your earlier comments that ran contrary to your more recent comment. I understand how inconvenient that is.
You should ignore me because I will point out more of your posts that don’t make sense. Like on the first page where you said “Transmute crystals do nothing for getting your weapon in the first place.“.
That comment was really odd since who wants a vMA inferno staff with the powered trait. Pretty much was a weapon of little value. So your comment was very incorrect as before transmutation the odds were closer to 1:100 runs and not it’s closer to 1:10. Brinks has the more accurate numbers.
Edit: not to mention that vMA is significantly easier today than it was a couple years ago.Edited by idk on April 25, 2019 11:49PM1 -
Disturbed_One✭✭✭✭No "tokens" please... vMA is already easy, and with trait change it's pretty quick to get your weapon
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