vMA token / fragment system

Andrxw

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

I'd prefer tokens, say you need about 5 or 6 tokens to purchase the weapon of your choice from a vendor. Random trait. And then perhaps if you wanted a specific trait, you need to double the tokens, so about 12 tokens for a trait of your choice.

It is really a great idea because this way it's not giving away vMA weapons to people who don't deserve them yet but it's turning a terrible grind with lots of uncertainty into a bearable task with a certain outcome.

A "terrible grind" that was reduced by a factor of 9 when they introduced transmutation. You have already gotten your "token" system through transmutation.

13 runs through vMA gives you the 50 crystals needed to transmute, and a 67.7% chance of getting the weapon type you desire.

5 or 6 "tokens" is asking for BETTER than RNG chance to get the weapon you want. A token system is meant for people who have poor RNG as a means to get what they desire.... but you're asking for better???

Based on the fact that there are 12 weapons that can drop from vMA final chest. Assuming they all have an equal drop chance the odds of you getting what you DON'T want is 11/12. Thus if you do 10 runs, the odds you don't get what you want are (11/12)^10 or about 42%. If you say you wanted a token system where you'd get the drop after say 35 runs. (11/12)^35 = 4.75%. Then I might say you had "bad" RNG, as there's a greater than 95% chance of you having gotten your weapon already..

By the way.. before transmutation, to get a 95% chance of the weapon you wanted, in the trait you wanted, took over 287 runs previously. They've already reduced the grind by an immense amount with transmutation!

I sometimes wonder if people really think about what they're asking for/suggesting... yikes.

And yes... I know math isn't "allowed" here... we all need to just emotionally demand what we want without any logic! /s

The addition of transmutation is pointless if you can't get the weapon in the first place.

Math is nice and all, but no matter how you look at it, getting the weapon is still only chance. You do indeed have a high chance of getting it within so many runs (35+, as you said), but the fact is, there's still a chance that you won't have it by then. Might shock you, but some people are just plain unlucky. It's entirely possible to run it hundreds of times without getting what you need, and it HAS happened. What OP is asking for is a way around that. A way to get it without relying on RNG. I guarantee that there are players better than you and I that have run it way more than us without getting what they needed. Is that fair?

I don't see what's wrong with having a token system? I agree that 5-6 is far too low, but something like 25+? Maybe even higher would be fine. Why not? They've put themselves through vMA that many times, I'd say they "earned" whatever weapon they want. Let them trade in whatever weapons they got so far for tokens, and get one weapon they want. It helps unlucky people, and it doesn't affect people with good/average luck. It doesn't hurt anybody. Well, I suppose if someone's the type to feel special about getting lucky, then they might feel a little less special if a token system is implemented. Because let's face it. At the moment, getting the weapon you need isn't about skill. It isn't about hard work. It's luck. Yes, it does take a certain degree of skill to complete vMA, and the more skilled you are, generally the faster you can complete it (resulting in more runs/chances), but whether or not you get the weapon is entirely luck. You could run it a couple times a day for a few months, and no matter how good you are, you could potentially leave empty-handed. How is that fair?

I guess it all comes down to this. Who do you think "earned" it more (maybe "deserves" would be a better word)? Somebody who ran it a few times, got lucky, and got the weapon they needed. Or, someone who's ran it 100+ (even just 50+ is ridiculous) times, and has never gotten what they needed.

tmbrinks

Andrxw wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

I'd prefer tokens, say you need about 5 or 6 tokens to purchase the weapon of your choice from a vendor. Random trait. And then perhaps if you wanted a specific trait, you need to double the tokens, so about 12 tokens for a trait of your choice.

It is really a great idea because this way it's not giving away vMA weapons to people who don't deserve them yet but it's turning a terrible grind with lots of uncertainty into a bearable task with a certain outcome.

A "terrible grind" that was reduced by a factor of 9 when they introduced transmutation. You have already gotten your "token" system through transmutation.

13 runs through vMA gives you the 50 crystals needed to transmute, and a 67.7% chance of getting the weapon type you desire.

5 or 6 "tokens" is asking for BETTER than RNG chance to get the weapon you want. A token system is meant for people who have poor RNG as a means to get what they desire.... but you're asking for better???

Based on the fact that there are 12 weapons that can drop from vMA final chest. Assuming they all have an equal drop chance the odds of you getting what you DON'T want is 11/12. Thus if you do 10 runs, the odds you don't get what you want are (11/12)^10 or about 42%. If you say you wanted a token system where you'd get the drop after say 35 runs. (11/12)^35 = 4.75%. Then I might say you had "bad" RNG, as there's a greater than 95% chance of you having gotten your weapon already..

By the way.. before transmutation, to get a 95% chance of the weapon you wanted, in the trait you wanted, took over 287 runs previously. They've already reduced the grind by an immense amount with transmutation!

I sometimes wonder if people really think about what they're asking for/suggesting... yikes.

And yes... I know math isn't "allowed" here... we all need to just emotionally demand what we want without any logic! /s

The addition of transmutation is pointless if you can't get the weapon in the first place.

Math is nice and all, but no matter how you look at it, getting the weapon is still only chance. You do indeed have a high chance of getting it within so many runs (35+, as you said), but the fact is, there's still a chance that you won't have it by then. Might shock you, but some people are just plain unlucky. It's entirely possible to run it hundreds of times without getting what you need, and it HAS happened. What OP is asking for is a way around that. A way to get it without relying on RNG. I guarantee that there are players better than you and I that have run it way more than us without getting what they needed. Is that fair?

I don't see what's wrong with having a token system? I agree that 5-6 is far too low, but something like 25+? Maybe even higher would be fine. Why not? They've put themselves through vMA that many times, I'd say they "earned" whatever weapon they want. Let them trade in whatever weapons they got so far for tokens, and get one weapon they want. It helps unlucky people, and it doesn't affect people with good/average luck. It doesn't hurt anybody. Well, I suppose if someone's the type to feel special about getting lucky, then they might feel a little less special if a token system is implemented. Because let's face it. At the moment, getting the weapon you need isn't about skill. It isn't about hard work. It's luck. Yes, it does take a certain degree of skill to complete vMA, and the more skilled you are, generally the faster you can complete it (resulting in more runs/chances), but whether or not you get the weapon is entirely luck. You could run it a couple times a day for a few months, and no matter how good you are, you could potentially leave empty-handed. How is that fair?

I guess it all comes down to this. Who do you think "earned" it more (maybe "deserves" would be a better word)? Somebody who ran it a few times, got lucky, and got the weapon they needed. Or, someone who's ran it 100+ (even just 50+ is ridiculous) times, and has never gotten what they needed.

I said exactly that in my post.

If you say you wanted a token system where you'd get the drop after say 35 runs. (11/12)^35 = 4.75%. Then I might say you had "bad" RNG, as there's a greater than 95% chance of you having gotten your weapon already..

r34lian

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Compare it with the recent ones BRP , AS and the infamous Cloudrest where you get gear even from normal check the amount of people doing that and then compare it with vMA.
The above 3 I'll say are best design carter for all sorts of player casual , try hard, pvp etc I'd say they should take same approach for vMA but atleast it should have token since It's a solo content that would compensate for the chances you lose for not being in a group where it increases proportionally.
Not everybody simply enjoys vMA a token system should've been there so for someone not going for score and stuff could get his gear and be out.

neither of those have a token system... you're conflating your reasoning.

change it to perfected in veteran mode, non perfected in normal... that's what your argument is for.

Completely different argument.

What I'm talking about is accessible and besides they are grouped instance so your chance is increased by 3 times unlike vMA which is solo so the lack of chances could be made up with token system and if some has completed vMA even once they deserves the gear for gear != score that's what I meant by the latter arena and trials.

idk

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

r34lian

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

Facefister

You guys really think those "tokens" will be available ingame? They'll try to put those into the shop with a cheap excuse like "You can buy them when you have atleast 20 runs."

idk

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

tmbrinks

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

"Participation Trophy Generation"

idk

tmbrinks wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

"Participation Trophy Generation"

LOL

carlos424

How about a compromise. You get a fragment every time you complete VMA, as well as the usual drops. After you earn 20 fragments you can turn them into the weapon of your choice (random trait). However ............ this weapon cannot be transmuted!!!! Ah ha!!!

Neoealth

SoLooney wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

Thats why zos released transmute stones

Another person who thinks we want this because of traits... No we want it simply to get the weapon itself. Try reading what people write a bit closer.

Why dont you stop being lazy and salty and just farm the weapon. You only need to get the weapon once, doesnt even matter the trait, you're lucky you never had to farm it pre clockwork

You're not gonna get the weapon faster crying on the forums

Excuse me princess. But I already have my weapon. This idea is not for my own benifit but for all players.

carlos424

kylewwefan wrote: »

Why stop with a token system here.

What if every dungeon had a token system? Can we say BSW Inferno for everyone!

Let’s be fair about it. Trials too. Actually Maelstrom is a trial. Tokens for AY swords or whatever.

No one really wants to run City of Ash 5,000 times but here we are. And Hel Ra Citadel. Ya know I had to run that 50+ times to get a set of VO.

It would kind of be a big slap in the face if they were to finally do it. But I’m alright with that.

What if they just dropped Maelstrom Weapons on normal? All the other trials do. Except for Dragonstar Arena. They could fix that too though.

A couple of issues. One is that most people can farm regular dungeons or even chests for gear. (Check out youtube for city of ash 1 chest locations). Another is that in group content, and especially trials, you have multiple people with whom to trade drops, making it much easier. You also have multiple chests along the way increasing your chances that much more. Even in VDSA you have 4 people, thus more drop chances, plus people selling drops etc. There is no easy way to cheese Maelstrom drops.

r34lian

carlos424 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Why stop with a token system here.

What if every dungeon had a token system? Can we say BSW Inferno for everyone!

Let’s be fair about it. Trials too. Actually Maelstrom is a trial. Tokens for AY swords or whatever.

No one really wants to run City of Ash 5,000 times but here we are. And Hel Ra Citadel. Ya know I had to run that 50+ times to get a set of VO.

It would kind of be a big slap in the face if they were to finally do it. But I’m alright with that.

What if they just dropped Maelstrom Weapons on normal? All the other trials do. Except for Dragonstar Arena. They could fix that too though.

A couple of issues. One is that most people can farm regular dungeons or even chests for gear. (Check out youtube for city of ash 1 chest locations). Another is that in group content, and especially trials, you have multiple people with whom to trade drops, making it much easier. You also have multiple chests along the way increasing your chances that much more. Even in VDSA you have 4 people, thus more drop chances, plus people selling drops etc. There is no easy way to cheese Maelstrom drops.

Exactly

mongoLC

Do it on several different characters. I got multiple flame staffs and bows plus a lightning staff and I am under 20 runs.

Neoealth

It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.

It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.

If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.

BJammin

I guess I was extremely lucky, in that I looted 2 shock staffs, 3 bows, and finally 1 inferno staff after less than 20 runs. The BSW inferno staff, however, was a drain on my soul. Maybe the weapons could be tradable among people who have completed VMA? Just a thought.

tmbrinks

Neoealth wrote: »

It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.

It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.

If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.

The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.

idk

.

mongoLC wrote: »

Do it on several different characters. I got multiple flame staffs and bows plus a lightning staff and I am under 20 runs.

If you read it OP is upset it takes time to get the weapons so it does not matter how many different characters they do it on, it still takes time.

As I pointed out earlier, it used to take significantly longer, almost 10x, statistically speaking since we used to have to farm for the right weapon and trait and power creep has made it easier to clear today.

Neoealth

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.

It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.

If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.

The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.

So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.

mzprx

i would support the token system 100%. because no matter what % (chance to drop the desired weapon in any trait) you come up with it's not true. all i wanted from vMA was a bow and a lightning staff. got the bow on my third run. Infused inferno staff on the second. all seemed fine. now it was a matter of running the vMA a couple more times. or so i thought. all i wanted was 1 (one) lightning staff, no matter the trait. shouldn't be that hard, right? wrong..

took me over 200 runs and several weekly leaderboard rewards to get 1 (one) lightning staff. Infused, yay to that. but that doesn't matter. i do NOT enjoy vMA. it's a waste of time for me. takes me roughly 1 hour 20 minutes that i could be doing something else. questing, exploring, stuff that is actually enjoyable. i couldn't care less about scores or achievements. i just wanted 1 (one) lightning staff, any trait. for my magicka sorcerer. you know, lightning themed magicka sorcerer. i can (well, could, i sold/deconstructed them all) swim in two-handers, daggers, swords, resto. staves, even bows and inferno staves. i tried to run vMA with magicka builds, tried it with stamina builds. tried sorcerers, templars, nightblades, wardens, all to get 1 (one) lightning staff. any trait. that is why i would support a "token system". like "change 10 or 20 weapons you don't need for the weapon you're after". or something like that. people have other things to do and forcing them into a vicious repetitive cycle of content they do not enjoy only makes them fed up with the game..

p.s.: a friend of mine couldn't get through vMA. so i helped him. like, gave him some advice, even watched him going through on Discord (shared screen), telling him what to expect at any given moment, how to deal with this and that. "now go there, take the defensive sigil and drop your AoEs, then run over there and kil lthat guy that spawns there while your AoEs take care of the first one", things of that nature. he got through and his reward was a Nirnhoed bow. he's not been in since. all he wanted was the bow. if that wouldn't make you hate the game/vMA...

tmbrinks

Neoealth wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.

It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.

If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.

The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.

So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.

Yes, I understand basic math... I figured my earlier post indicated that. Do you understand that there is literally only a 0.011% chance that you don't get it in your first 100 runs? That means that 1 out of approximately 6,000 people will have that happen.

Under the old system, there was still a 35% chance you hadn't gotten your preferred trait

So they changed it from a 1 in 3 chance, to a 1 in 6000 chance... and yet..

Shantu

I fail to see what is so objectionable about being rewarded with a goal by earning your way to it. Would you work 40 hours a week for a paycheck if it's amount was randomly generated? I don't think so.

But don't expect this to ever change. RGN is a system used by MMO's to keep you struggling to maximize your overall engagement in the game. The more you're logged in, the better the likelihood you'll spend real money on something, and the better it looks for investors. Yeah, some people are lucky, but like luck at a casino, most are not.

And BTW, I got a Bow and Fire Staff in my first 8 runs...but that doesn't make me like the RGN system any better.

idk

Neoealth wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.

It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.

If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.

The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.

So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.

Statistically not likely. Of course one could say, and be correct, that it might not drop in a million clears but the melodramatic approach is still obvious.

ONe very solid point, that I expect tmbrinks made is that is used to be on average that it took 100 runs to get the right weapon. People commonly did 100 runs and still had not gotten the weapon they needed. it is about 1/9th that now

That does not even get into how much easier it is to clear now. It is encroaching upon entitlement to want it even easier than it already is.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

It's interesting how judgmental some people get when propositions are made to make something more streamlined. People jumping to conclusions about motives behind the idea, saying don't be lazy get your weapon the old way. Even though i already actually have my vMA weapon.

It's a good idea in my opinion because i personally didn't enjoy the uncertainty of what loot id get for the time invested. If you enjoy vMA then you have the score board to keep you coming back, if you're there just for the loot and don't particularly find the content that appealing then frankly i think most people with that frame of mind would prefer to have certainty with tokens so they can just get their loot and get the hell out of there so they can do things they actually enjoy.

If you can complete it, you've earned the right to the weapon, there is no charity here. Those masochist who say everyone else should go through what they did or you are just lazy or a privileged millennial or some such nonsense need to understand it's about making the game better for everyone. Better not meaning easier but removing unnecessary drudgery. The challenge remains. The potentially unending grind does not.

The point still stands... they made it substantially easier already when they introduced transmutation. That is the token system in ESO.

So what though? That only deals with the trait. The whole point of the token system is getting the actual weapon. You do understand that the weapon could not drop for you for 100's of clears right? Yes random is random, it's unlikely but very possible. Tokens would remove that. Are you opposed to making the process even less grindy for any particular reason? Saying "muh transmute" is not an argument.

Yes, I understand basic math... I figured my earlier post indicated that. Do you understand that there is literally only a 0.011% chance that you don't get it in your first 100 runs? That means that 1 out of approximately 6,000 people will have that happen.

Under the old system, there was still a 35% chance you hadn't gotten your preferred trait

So they changed it from a 1 in 3 chance, to a 1 in 6000 chance... and yet..

Math can be so cruel sometimes with how it slaps us with reality.

Conduit0

tmbrinks wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

"Participation Trophy Generation"

Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.

idk

Shantu wrote: »

I fail to see what is so objectionable about being rewarded with a goal by earning your way to it. Would you work 40 hours a week for a paycheck if it's amount was randomly generated? I don't think so.

But don't expect this to ever change. RGN is a system used by MMO's to keep you struggling to maximize your overall engagement in the game. The more you're logged in, the better the likelihood you'll spend real money on something, and the better it looks for investors. Yeah, some people are lucky, but like luck at a casino, most are not.

And BTW, I got a Bow and Fire Staff in my first 8 runs...but that doesn't make me like the RGN system any better.

With this argument you should not be playing this game at all as all drops in this game are RNG. Basically it fails.

Zos has stated they do not want tokens in this game and no one that supports OP's idea has come up with an argument that would seem to change Zos' mind. The closest thing we have to tokens for gear is monster shoulders and that is total RNG.

Neoealth

Conduit0 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

"Participation Trophy Generation"

Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.

Exactly lol

tmbrinks

Conduit0 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

"Participation Trophy Generation"

Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.

yup... good thing it only takes 35 runs to have a greater than 95% chance of getting exactly the weapon you want.

But 1 point for you for deliberately being sarcastic about the amount needed to make it seem like a bigger issue

idk

Conduit0 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

"Participation Trophy Generation"

Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.

You need to read more. That 100+x has been statistically nullified. Scroll up. It is on this page.

BTW. Zos already said no to a token system.

tmbrinks

Neoealth wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

Ok, so we can have a token system where you get one token per run (maybe 2 for a no sigil/no death clear). With 20 tokens you can choose your weapon (and even trait).

So one can get one weapon in as few as 10 runs, but that would be 20 runs for most.

See how that works. Keep doing your clears and you just might get some decent weapons for alts along the way to getting the one you want for your main.

Only 2 decent weapon drops the destro staff and bow others are pretty meh

What you named is 4 different drops but failed to actually make a point.

I would like to remind you that it was not to long ago the chance of getting the weapon you wanted was almost 10x harder since we could not change traits. It was not long before that you could not save progress making it more challenging for player to get their first clear. Let us not forget the power creep that has made vMA significantly easier than it was even 2 years ago.

And you want tokens because it is to much work now. That is what is ironic about this thread Some just feel so entitled they want things easier and easier.

"Participation Trophy Generation"

Yes because not wanting to run the same content 100+ times means you want a participation trophy.

Exactly lol

Why do you keep saying 100 runs.... 100 runs gives you a 99.988% chance of getting it.. that's virtually guaranteed.

Hanokihs

RNG is just the nature of item drops in this game. Blame the MMO genre for it, and the notion that painful, tedious grinding has to be part of the experience.

I don't really think the system needs to be changed, though. vMA still involves playing the game; it's not something that should be whacked off at the knees for the sake of convenience like skyshard/lorebook grinding or item research, because those aren't actually gameplay - tangentially related, sure, but not on the same level. vMA is annoying if you keep going at it for ages and still don't get the results you want, but that's true of every other dungeon/trial/monster set that drops in the game; the fact that you have to go it solo is kind of irrelevant, since to be fair, you only have one set of weapons to get drops from instead of 3. (Doubly irrelevant if you consider the fact that nobody needs Maelstrom weapons to be a successful player).

I got a bow on my first completion, with zero stam characters on my roster. I still don't have a lightning staff, but that's okay. I'll get it eventually. And when I get bored of the arena, I'll start making self-imposed challenges for myself to make it harder and more interesting until I get what I need and don't have to go back.