vMA token / fragment system

r34lian

Can we please atleast have token or fragment system for vMA the rng there is absolute horrendous it's no fun wasting 1 hr everyday just to grind weapon of your choice.

KhajiitFelix

Yes

Neoealth

I've voiced this in the past, it has my vote.

mairwen85

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

ccfeeling

All or nothing .

Ozby

Agreed

Qbiken

Nah it's fine

thorwyn

I'm still fishing for my inerno staff, but: No!

r34lian

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

r34lian

thorwyn wrote: »

I'm still fishing for my inerno staff, but: No!

I still need lightning and bow not going back there unless they do something about that 2 to 3 k dps increase is not worth the effort.

mairwen85

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

Hmmm -- that's interesting. So you'd have to do a minimum of 20 runs to get the weapon of choice (if it doesn't drop in that time). Maybe awarding fragments based on score, or performance instead of a fixed value.

kiLLahweSPe

You should be grateful that you can transmute gear, get a drop from every run, get dualwield weapons as one drop etc. It used to be an even worse grind.

Leave it as it is, its fine.

blkjag

Vma is fine the way it is. Go in and earn it like everyone else

Andrxw

TIL that getting lucky and getting the weapon you want is considered "earning" it.

Neoealth

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

I'd prefer tokens, say you need about 5 or 6 tokens to purchase the weapon of your choice from a vendor. Random trait. And then perhaps if you wanted a specific trait, you need to double the tokens, so about 12 tokens for a trait of your choice.

It is really a great idea because this way it's not giving away vMA weapons to people who don't deserve them yet but it's turning a terrible grind with lots of uncertainty into a bearable task with a certain outcome.

tmbrinks

Neoealth wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

I'd prefer tokens, say you need about 5 or 6 tokens to purchase the weapon of your choice from a vendor. Random trait. And then perhaps if you wanted a specific trait, you need to double the tokens, so about 12 tokens for a trait of your choice.

It is really a great idea because this way it's not giving away vMA weapons to people who don't deserve them yet but it's turning a terrible grind with lots of uncertainty into a bearable task with a certain outcome.

A "terrible grind" that was reduced by a factor of 9 when they introduced transmutation. You have already gotten your "token" system through transmutation.

13 runs through vMA gives you the 50 crystals needed to transmute, and a 67.7% chance of getting the weapon type you desire.

5 or 6 "tokens" is asking for BETTER than RNG chance to get the weapon you want. A token system is meant for people who have poor RNG as a means to get what they desire.... but you're asking for better???

Based on the fact that there are 12 weapons that can drop from vMA final chest. Assuming they all have an equal drop chance the odds of you getting what you DON'T want is 11/12. Thus if you do 10 runs, the odds you don't get what you want are (11/12)^10 or about 42%. If you say you wanted a token system where you'd get the drop after say 35 runs. (11/12)^35 = 4.75%. Then I might say you had "bad" RNG, as there's a greater than 95% chance of you having gotten your weapon already..

By the way.. before transmutation, to get a 95% chance of the weapon you wanted, in the trait you wanted, took over 287 runs previously. They've already reduced the grind by an immense amount with transmutation!

I sometimes wonder if people really think about what they're asking for/suggesting... yikes.

And yes... I know math isn't "allowed" here... we all need to just emotionally demand what we want without any logic! /s

r34lian

So according to some of your logic more grind / runs = worthy ?
And so if you grind it so must the others grind no room for improvement?

SoLooney

Thats why zos released transmute stones

tmbrinks

Soul19reaper wrote: »

So according to some of your logic more grind / runs = worthy ?
And so if you grind it so must the others grind no room for improvement?

No. The point is they've already reduced it drastically... now they're asking for further reductions. THEY HAVE ALREADY IMPROVED IT!!!!

I guess this is what you get from the "Participation Trophy" generation...

Riejael

blkjag wrote: »

Vma is fine the way it is. Go in and earn it like everyone else

This one appears to think killing 10 boars is harder than 1, and legendary to kill 1000 of them.

r34lian

Compare it with the recent ones BRP , AS and the infamous Cloudrest where you get gear even from normal check the amount of people doing that and then compare it with vMA.
The above 3 I'll say are best design carter for all sorts of player casual , try hard, pvp etc I'd say they should take same approach for vMA but atleast it should have token since It's a solo content that would compensate for the chances you lose for not being in a group where it increases proportionally.
Not everybody simply enjoys vMA a token system should've been there so for someone not going for score and stuff could get his gear and be out.

tmbrinks

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Compare it with the recent ones BRP , AS and the infamous Cloudrest where you get gear even from normal check the amount of people doing that and then compare it with vMA.
The above 3 I'll say are best design carter for all sorts of player casual , try hard, pvp etc I'd say they should take same approach for vMA but atleast it should have token since It's a solo content that would compensate for the chances you lose for not being in a group where it increases proportionally.
Not everybody simply enjoys vMA a token system should've been there so for someone not going for score and stuff could get his gear and be out.

neither of those have a token system... you're conflating your reasoning.

change it to perfected in veteran mode, non perfected in normal... that's what your argument is for.

Completely different argument.

Neoealth

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

I'd prefer tokens, say you need about 5 or 6 tokens to purchase the weapon of your choice from a vendor. Random trait. And then perhaps if you wanted a specific trait, you need to double the tokens, so about 12 tokens for a trait of your choice.

It is really a great idea because this way it's not giving away vMA weapons to people who don't deserve them yet but it's turning a terrible grind with lots of uncertainty into a bearable task with a certain outcome.

A "terrible grind" that was reduced by a factor of 9 when they introduced transmutation. You have already gotten your "token" system through transmutation.

13 runs through vMA gives you the 50 crystals needed to transmute, and a 67.7% chance of getting the weapon type you desire.

5 or 6 "tokens" is asking for BETTER than RNG chance to get the weapon you want. A token system is meant for people who have poor RNG as a means to get what they desire.... but you're asking for better???

Based on the fact that there are 12 weapons that can drop from vMA final chest. Assuming they all have an equal drop chance the odds of you getting what you DON'T want is 11/12. Thus if you do 10 runs, the odds you don't get what you want are (11/12)^10 or about 42%. If you say you wanted a token system where you'd get the drop after say 35 runs. (11/12)^35 = 4.75%. Then I might say you had "bad" RNG, as there's a greater than 95% chance of you having gotten your weapon already..

By the way.. before transmutation, to get a 95% chance of the weapon you wanted, in the trait you wanted, took over 287 runs previously. They've already reduced the grind by an immense amount with transmutation!

I sometimes wonder if people really think about what they're asking for/suggesting... yikes.

And yes... I know math isn't "allowed" here... we all need to just emotionally demand what we want without any logic! /s

You cherry picked my argument. Transmute crystals do nothing for getting your weapon in the first place. Which is the main gripe that this solution solves. The trait part was just an added idea. I think you know that.

Not getting the correct trait is a very minor thing, I just transmute. But there is nothing wrong with expanding on the token system to cater to people who wish to grind for traits also without using transmute. Not everyone likes to PVP for transmute stones, hell there are even people who get triggered by seeing the transmute symbol on their gear lol. You really laser focused on the more less relevant part of the idea.

Casul

I got flawless, 2 infernos, and a bow all within 5 runs. So I don’t really need the system personally. But I absolutely support it because I know there are people who have run it 1000s of times

tmbrinks

Neoealth wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

I'd prefer tokens, say you need about 5 or 6 tokens to purchase the weapon of your choice from a vendor. Random trait. And then perhaps if you wanted a specific trait, you need to double the tokens, so about 12 tokens for a trait of your choice.

It is really a great idea because this way it's not giving away vMA weapons to people who don't deserve them yet but it's turning a terrible grind with lots of uncertainty into a bearable task with a certain outcome.

A "terrible grind" that was reduced by a factor of 9 when they introduced transmutation. You have already gotten your "token" system through transmutation.

13 runs through vMA gives you the 50 crystals needed to transmute, and a 67.7% chance of getting the weapon type you desire.

5 or 6 "tokens" is asking for BETTER than RNG chance to get the weapon you want. A token system is meant for people who have poor RNG as a means to get what they desire.... but you're asking for better???

Based on the fact that there are 12 weapons that can drop from vMA final chest. Assuming they all have an equal drop chance the odds of you getting what you DON'T want is 11/12. Thus if you do 10 runs, the odds you don't get what you want are (11/12)^10 or about 42%. If you say you wanted a token system where you'd get the drop after say 35 runs. (11/12)^35 = 4.75%. Then I might say you had "bad" RNG, as there's a greater than 95% chance of you having gotten your weapon already..

By the way.. before transmutation, to get a 95% chance of the weapon you wanted, in the trait you wanted, took over 287 runs previously. They've already reduced the grind by an immense amount with transmutation!

I sometimes wonder if people really think about what they're asking for/suggesting... yikes.

And yes... I know math isn't "allowed" here... we all need to just emotionally demand what we want without any logic! /s

You cherry picked my argument. Transmute crystals do nothing for getting your weapon in the first place. Which is the main gripe that this solution solves. The trait part was just an added idea. I think you know that.

I didn't "cherry pick" anything. I CLEARLY stated, that after 13 runs, you would have a 66.7% chance of getting the weapon that you desire. TRANSMUTATION REDUCED THE GRIND BY A FACTOR OF 8.2 (287 runs for a 95% chance, down to 35, I'll do the actual math this time).. AND YOU STILL WANT MORE!!!!

You already got your token system with Transmutation.

Neoealth

SoLooney wrote: »

Thats why zos released transmute stones

Another person who thinks we want this because of traits... No we want it simply to get the weapon itself. Try reading what people write a bit closer.

Neoealth

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Can you outline how you see that working?

The Imperial City, ICP/WGT key fragments aren't much better.

Specific range of sets, but not really a specific result. RNG solution to a RNG problem.

Would you hope to see it work as x fragments for chest of weapon type?

For instance you get like 10 or 20 fragments from chest and then you can use them to purchase your weapon of choice cost Could be like 150 to 200 fragments.

I'd prefer tokens, say you need about 5 or 6 tokens to purchase the weapon of your choice from a vendor. Random trait. And then perhaps if you wanted a specific trait, you need to double the tokens, so about 12 tokens for a trait of your choice.

It is really a great idea because this way it's not giving away vMA weapons to people who don't deserve them yet but it's turning a terrible grind with lots of uncertainty into a bearable task with a certain outcome.

A "terrible grind" that was reduced by a factor of 9 when they introduced transmutation. You have already gotten your "token" system through transmutation.

13 runs through vMA gives you the 50 crystals needed to transmute, and a 67.7% chance of getting the weapon type you desire.

5 or 6 "tokens" is asking for BETTER than RNG chance to get the weapon you want. A token system is meant for people who have poor RNG as a means to get what they desire.... but you're asking for better???

Based on the fact that there are 12 weapons that can drop from vMA final chest. Assuming they all have an equal drop chance the odds of you getting what you DON'T want is 11/12. Thus if you do 10 runs, the odds you don't get what you want are (11/12)^10 or about 42%. If you say you wanted a token system where you'd get the drop after say 35 runs. (11/12)^35 = 4.75%. Then I might say you had "bad" RNG, as there's a greater than 95% chance of you having gotten your weapon already..

By the way.. before transmutation, to get a 95% chance of the weapon you wanted, in the trait you wanted, took over 287 runs previously. They've already reduced the grind by an immense amount with transmutation!

I sometimes wonder if people really think about what they're asking for/suggesting... yikes.

And yes... I know math isn't "allowed" here... we all need to just emotionally demand what we want without any logic! /s

You cherry picked my argument. Transmute crystals do nothing for getting your weapon in the first place. Which is the main gripe that this solution solves. The trait part was just an added idea. I think you know that.

I didn't "cherry pick" anything. I CLEARLY stated, that after 13 runs, you would have a 66.7% chance of getting the weapon that you desire. TRANSMUTATION REDUCED THE GRIND BY A FACTOR OF 8.2 (287 runs for a 95% chance, down to 35, I'll do the actual math this time).. AND YOU STILL WANT MORE!!!!

You already got your token system with Transmutation.

Random is random though, those percentages don't reflect reality. Math can be used to judge your odds, yes that side is correct, but the fact we have people who are very unlucky in reality, that is what the token system is for. Just look on the forums all the people who complain that they never get the weapon they want. Do you think your percentages of their chance for getting stuff is going to be any comfort to them? Nah.

SoLooney

Neoealth wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

Thats why zos released transmute stones

Another person who thinks we want this because of traits... No we want it simply to get the weapon itself. Try reading what people write a bit closer.

Why dont you stop being lazy and salty and just farm the weapon. You only need to get the weapon once, doesnt even matter the trait, you're lucky you never had to farm it pre clockwork

You're not gonna get the weapon faster crying on the forums

kylewwefan

Why stop with a token system here.

What if every dungeon had a token system? Can we say BSW Inferno for everyone!

Let’s be fair about it. Trials too. Actually Maelstrom is a trial. Tokens for AY swords or whatever.

No one really wants to run City of Ash 5,000 times but here we are. And Hel Ra Citadel. Ya know I had to run that 50+ times to get a set of VO.

It would kind of be a big slap in the face if they were to finally do it. But I’m alright with that.

What if they just dropped Maelstrom Weapons on normal? All the other trials do. Except for Dragonstar Arena. They could fix that too though.

Danksta

Getting a specific weapon from a specific dungeon set is much more grindy than vMA weapons.

Tyrobag

Danksta wrote: »

Getting a specific weapon from a specific dungeon set is much more grindy than vMA weapons.

No it isn't. vMA takes longer, is harder (and can't be done on normal for drops), is solo (so no group members for extra drop chance), and has no random chests to drop the weapons.

That said, I already have my vMA weapons, but would certainly support a token system so others don't have to do such an insane grind.