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Stamina curse
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Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BaylorCorvette wrote: »A stamina curse would just make stamsorcs kind of pugstompers the same as stamwardens: Stam curse, dizzying swing into dawnbreaker (assumed stam curse would be just the stamina version of the current curse). It would be just a single target copy of stamdens burst combo, which doesnt sound unique to me.
You know what else doesn't feel unique? Having to use weapon abilities for the past few years that literally any other stam class can use. While I agree that a Stam Curse would ultimately work similar to stam warden burst (but single target vs conal shalks) it would at least be some flavor to StamSorc in the sense that they are using a Sorc class ability to do some damage. Lets face it, ZoS is not going to come up with something completely new for the old classes, it's going to have to be a change of current skills but shifting said skill from scaling with max mag and spell damage to max stam and weapon damage. It's what they've done with other abilities in this update.
So with that being said, what options of Sorc skills are available to provide a damage ability?
Cyrstal Shards > could make Air Shards, basically a Stam Necro has this with their Venom Skull
Curse > Physical Curse
Mage's Fury > Physical Fury morph
That is pretty much the only option in terms of a Stam Sorc damage abilities.
If people are so concerned with abilities being taken from a Mag Sorc, then they could make the ability cost and scale with whatever you max resource pool is. So if you have more max stamina, then the ability cost stamina and does physical damage. If you have more max magicka then the ability cost magicka and does mag based damage.
The excuse that "mag sorc uses this and thus stam sorc shouldn't get any identity" is a *** poor excuse.
Again, again, again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are with magicka costs, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.Edited by Olupajmibanan on April 16, 2019 2:49PM0 -
alexthomp92✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Yeah, stam sorcs definitely need a buff b/c they are so underperforming in PvP ... oh wait. Stop trying to get a stamina equivalent for each magicka class ability. You already got a far greater selection of weapons to choose from. You got built-in defensive and mobility tools - i.e. dodge, block, sprint - that are NOT adversely affected by lag like all the other defensive & mobility tools. And you got the best mobility in the game. You got about as much streak as magicka sorcs and the sprinting + dodging from stamina builds.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
The only thing that would kinda make sense would be a pet summoned by magicka but dealing physical damage. But no, you want the magSorcs core abilities as stamina equivalents and also retain all your other benefits. In other words you basically want to become a magSorc+ or a superior magSorc ... yeah no!
It is evident that you have not mained a Stam sorc at any point.
It is evident that you also have not read anything else posted in this thread.
So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »It doesn't have to be the same as it is currently but a physical morph of this skill would go along way to help balance out Stam sorcs kit, as it has the least of any class
And what would you take away? Daedric Prey? You want to get rid of petsorcs completely? Haunting Curse? You want go get rid of non-petsorcs and PvP magsorcs completely?
Stamina morph of Curse = definitely not. Maybe if they keep it as it is and give it scaling with higher stats.
If you combined both the current morphs you would not lose anything from either one.
Please calm down and think about more than just mag sorc for 2 mins
[Edit for typo]
As I said, they can just make Curse scaling from your stamina and weapon damage if its higher. As long as they keep current functionality and magicka cost on both morphs, I am fine with it.
Combining Haunting Curse and Daedric Prey would be a tremendous buff to magsorcs that nobody is asking for. I don't know if you are trolling or what.
Daedric Prey
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1081 Magic Damage to the target and 499 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 6 seconds.
While the curse is active, your pets deal an additional 55% damage to the target except for the Storm Atronach which only deals an additional 40% damage.
You can have only one Daedric Prey active at a time.
Haunting Curse
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
The curse will continue to haunt the enemy and explode a second time, dealing an additional 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 8.5 seconds.
You can have only one Haunting Curse active at a time.
It's almost the same skill bro
Non pet sorcs will allow the second curse to go off before recast
Pet sorcs will recast for bonus damage
Not really a buff for mag sorc at all
No troll just want to help represent the persecuted
The new curse combined would do first explosion at 3,5th second mark and second explosion at 12th second mark. That means, uptime on bonus pet damage doubled making the rotation a lot easier and saving a lot of resources.
Negative, pet damage is only on first curse but leaves a mark on target which explodes again
That would nerf one of the magsorcs. 3,5 seconds on bonus pet damage is unbearable for petsorcs. And if they make first explosion at 6th sec that would be a huge nerf to PvP magsorc.
Again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Not necessarily 6 seconds on the curse would allow more time on preparation for burst, (in PvP) it's also the length of CC immunity meaning that if played well you could be a little more dangerous.
This is progression though.
Together as a community we need to come to a solution that helps Stam sorcs access more of their passives or make more passives applicable0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Yeah, stam sorcs definitely need a buff b/c they are so underperforming in PvP ... oh wait. Stop trying to get a stamina equivalent for each magicka class ability. You already got a far greater selection of weapons to choose from. You got built-in defensive and mobility tools - i.e. dodge, block, sprint - that are NOT adversely affected by lag like all the other defensive & mobility tools. And you got the best mobility in the game. You got about as much streak as magicka sorcs and the sprinting + dodging from stamina builds.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
The only thing that would kinda make sense would be a pet summoned by magicka but dealing physical damage. But no, you want the magSorcs core abilities as stamina equivalents and also retain all your other benefits. In other words you basically want to become a magSorc+ or a superior magSorc ... yeah no!
It is evident that you have not mained a Stam sorc at any point.
It is evident that you also have not read anything else posted in this thread.
So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »It doesn't have to be the same as it is currently but a physical morph of this skill would go along way to help balance out Stam sorcs kit, as it has the least of any class
And what would you take away? Daedric Prey? You want to get rid of petsorcs completely? Haunting Curse? You want go get rid of non-petsorcs and PvP magsorcs completely?
Stamina morph of Curse = definitely not. Maybe if they keep it as it is and give it scaling with higher stats.
If you combined both the current morphs you would not lose anything from either one.
Please calm down and think about more than just mag sorc for 2 mins
[Edit for typo]
As I said, they can just make Curse scaling from your stamina and weapon damage if its higher. As long as they keep current functionality and magicka cost on both morphs, I am fine with it.
Combining Haunting Curse and Daedric Prey would be a tremendous buff to magsorcs that nobody is asking for. I don't know if you are trolling or what.
Daedric Prey
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1081 Magic Damage to the target and 499 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 6 seconds.
While the curse is active, your pets deal an additional 55% damage to the target except for the Storm Atronach which only deals an additional 40% damage.
You can have only one Daedric Prey active at a time.
Haunting Curse
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
The curse will continue to haunt the enemy and explode a second time, dealing an additional 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 8.5 seconds.
You can have only one Haunting Curse active at a time.
It's almost the same skill bro
Non pet sorcs will allow the second curse to go off before recast
Pet sorcs will recast for bonus damage
Not really a buff for mag sorc at all
No troll just want to help represent the persecuted
The new curse combined would do first explosion at 3,5th second mark and second explosion at 12th second mark. That means, uptime on bonus pet damage doubled making the rotation a lot easier and saving a lot of resources.
Negative, pet damage is only on first curse but leaves a mark on target which explodes again
That would nerf one of the magsorcs. 3,5 seconds on bonus pet damage is unbearable for petsorcs. And if they make first explosion at 6th sec that would be a huge nerf to PvP magsorc.
Again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Not necessarily 6 seconds on the curse would allow more time on preparation for burst, (in PvP) it's also the length of CC immunity meaning that if played well you could be a little more dangerous.
This is progression though.
Together as a community we need to come to a solution that helps Stam sorcs access more of their passives or make more passives applicable
Keep functionality.
Keep magicka cost.
Let it scale from your highest max stats.
Magsorcs untouched and stamsorc would have powerful new tool.
I would really like to see you playing with 6 seconds delayed Shalks for example
Edited by Olupajmibanan on April 16, 2019 2:56PM0 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »BaylorCorvette wrote: »A stamina curse would just make stamsorcs kind of pugstompers the same as stamwardens: Stam curse, dizzying swing into dawnbreaker (assumed stam curse would be just the stamina version of the current curse). It would be just a single target copy of stamdens burst combo, which doesnt sound unique to me.
You know what else doesn't feel unique? Having to use weapon abilities for the past few years that literally any other stam class can use. While I agree that a Stam Curse would ultimately work similar to stam warden burst (but single target vs conal shalks) it would at least be some flavor to StamSorc in the sense that they are using a Sorc class ability to do some damage. Lets face it, ZoS is not going to come up with something completely new for the old classes, it's going to have to be a change of current skills but shifting said skill from scaling with max mag and spell damage to max stam and weapon damage. It's what they've done with other abilities in this update.
So with that being said, what options of Sorc skills are available to provide a damage ability?
Cyrstal Shards > could make Air Shards, basically a Stam Necro has this with their Venom Skull
Curse > Physical Curse
Mage's Fury > Physical Fury morph
That is pretty much the only option in terms of a Stam Sorc damage abilities.
If people are so concerned with abilities being taken from a Mag Sorc, then they could make the ability cost and scale with whatever you max resource pool is. So if you have more max stamina, then the ability cost stamina and does physical damage. If you have more max magicka then the ability cost magicka and does mag based damage.
The excuse that "mag sorc uses this and thus stam sorc shouldn't get any identity" is a *** poor excuse.
Again, again, again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are with magicka costs, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Exactly what I was suggesting at the end of my post. Just make it scale based on max stats. Problem solved. However they need to make sure if it scales with weapon damage and stamina then it does physical damage and not magic or shock. Because with the streak change it still does shock damage.Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
Founder of Dominion Special Forces
YouTube - ESO & Automotive Racing
DC Zerg Busting2 -
alexthomp92✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Yeah, stam sorcs definitely need a buff b/c they are so underperforming in PvP ... oh wait. Stop trying to get a stamina equivalent for each magicka class ability. You already got a far greater selection of weapons to choose from. You got built-in defensive and mobility tools - i.e. dodge, block, sprint - that are NOT adversely affected by lag like all the other defensive & mobility tools. And you got the best mobility in the game. You got about as much streak as magicka sorcs and the sprinting + dodging from stamina builds.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
The only thing that would kinda make sense would be a pet summoned by magicka but dealing physical damage. But no, you want the magSorcs core abilities as stamina equivalents and also retain all your other benefits. In other words you basically want to become a magSorc+ or a superior magSorc ... yeah no!
It is evident that you have not mained a Stam sorc at any point.
It is evident that you also have not read anything else posted in this thread.
So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »It doesn't have to be the same as it is currently but a physical morph of this skill would go along way to help balance out Stam sorcs kit, as it has the least of any class
And what would you take away? Daedric Prey? You want to get rid of petsorcs completely? Haunting Curse? You want go get rid of non-petsorcs and PvP magsorcs completely?
Stamina morph of Curse = definitely not. Maybe if they keep it as it is and give it scaling with higher stats.
If you combined both the current morphs you would not lose anything from either one.
Please calm down and think about more than just mag sorc for 2 mins
[Edit for typo]
As I said, they can just make Curse scaling from your stamina and weapon damage if its higher. As long as they keep current functionality and magicka cost on both morphs, I am fine with it.
Combining Haunting Curse and Daedric Prey would be a tremendous buff to magsorcs that nobody is asking for. I don't know if you are trolling or what.
Daedric Prey
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1081 Magic Damage to the target and 499 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 6 seconds.
While the curse is active, your pets deal an additional 55% damage to the target except for the Storm Atronach which only deals an additional 40% damage.
You can have only one Daedric Prey active at a time.
Haunting Curse
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
The curse will continue to haunt the enemy and explode a second time, dealing an additional 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 8.5 seconds.
You can have only one Haunting Curse active at a time.
It's almost the same skill bro
Non pet sorcs will allow the second curse to go off before recast
Pet sorcs will recast for bonus damage
Not really a buff for mag sorc at all
No troll just want to help represent the persecuted
The new curse combined would do first explosion at 3,5th second mark and second explosion at 12th second mark. That means, uptime on bonus pet damage doubled making the rotation a lot easier and saving a lot of resources.
Negative, pet damage is only on first curse but leaves a mark on target which explodes again
That would nerf one of the magsorcs. 3,5 seconds on bonus pet damage is unbearable for petsorcs. And if they make first explosion at 6th sec that would be a huge nerf to PvP magsorc.
Again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Not necessarily 6 seconds on the curse would allow more time on preparation for burst, (in PvP) it's also the length of CC immunity meaning that if played well you could be a little more dangerous.
This is progression though.
Together as a community we need to come to a solution that helps Stam sorcs access more of their passives or make more passives applicable
Keep functionality.
Keep magicka cost.
Let it scale from your highest max stats.
Magsorcs untouched and stamsorc would have powerful new tool.
I would really like to see you playing with 6 seconds delayed Shalks for example
If it does not do physical damage then it does not benefit from the bulk of your CP as a Stam character,
Also shalks is not a Stam sorc move......
Power of the light and purifying light is 6 seconds though, seem pretty sweet to me2 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If only Fengrush had not started this whole 'stamsorc' debacle.... Sorcerer... what does it have to do with stamina? Flex your muscles enough and magic appears?Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Yeah, stam sorcs definitely need a buff b/c they are so underperforming in PvP ... oh wait. Stop trying to get a stamina equivalent for each magicka class ability. You already got a far greater selection of weapons to choose from. You got built-in defensive and mobility tools - i.e. dodge, block, sprint - that are NOT adversely affected by lag like all the other defensive & mobility tools. And you got the best mobility in the game. You got about as much streak as magicka sorcs and the sprinting + dodging from stamina builds.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
The only thing that would kinda make sense would be a pet summoned by magicka but dealing physical damage. But no, you want the magSorcs core abilities as stamina equivalents and also retain all your other benefits. In other words you basically want to become a magSorc+ or a superior magSorc ... yeah no!
It is evident that you have not mained a Stam sorc at any point.
It is evident that you also have not read anything else posted in this thread.
So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »It doesn't have to be the same as it is currently but a physical morph of this skill would go along way to help balance out Stam sorcs kit, as it has the least of any class
And what would you take away? Daedric Prey? You want to get rid of petsorcs completely? Haunting Curse? You want go get rid of non-petsorcs and PvP magsorcs completely?
Stamina morph of Curse = definitely not. Maybe if they keep it as it is and give it scaling with higher stats.
If you combined both the current morphs you would not lose anything from either one.
Please calm down and think about more than just mag sorc for 2 mins
[Edit for typo]
As I said, they can just make Curse scaling from your stamina and weapon damage if its higher. As long as they keep current functionality and magicka cost on both morphs, I am fine with it.
Combining Haunting Curse and Daedric Prey would be a tremendous buff to magsorcs that nobody is asking for. I don't know if you are trolling or what.
Daedric Prey
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1081 Magic Damage to the target and 499 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 6 seconds.
While the curse is active, your pets deal an additional 55% damage to the target except for the Storm Atronach which only deals an additional 40% damage.
You can have only one Daedric Prey active at a time.
Haunting Curse
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
The curse will continue to haunt the enemy and explode a second time, dealing an additional 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 8.5 seconds.
You can have only one Haunting Curse active at a time.
It's almost the same skill bro
Non pet sorcs will allow the second curse to go off before recast
Pet sorcs will recast for bonus damage
Not really a buff for mag sorc at all
No troll just want to help represent the persecuted
The new curse combined would do first explosion at 3,5th second mark and second explosion at 12th second mark. That means, uptime on bonus pet damage doubled making the rotation a lot easier and saving a lot of resources.
Negative, pet damage is only on first curse but leaves a mark on target which explodes again
That would nerf one of the magsorcs. 3,5 seconds on bonus pet damage is unbearable for petsorcs. And if they make first explosion at 6th sec that would be a huge nerf to PvP magsorc.
Again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Not necessarily 6 seconds on the curse would allow more time on preparation for burst, (in PvP) it's also the length of CC immunity meaning that if played well you could be a little more dangerous.
This is progression though.
Together as a community we need to come to a solution that helps Stam sorcs access more of their passives or make more passives applicable
Keep functionality.
Keep magicka cost.
Let it scale from your highest max stats.
Magsorcs untouched and stamsorc would have powerful new tool.
I would really like to see you playing with 6 seconds delayed Shalks for example
If it does not do physical damage then it does not benefit from the bulk of your CP as a Stam character,
Also shalks is not a Stam sorc move......
Power of the light and purifying light is 6 seconds though, seem pretty sweet to me
So can we move to another skill? Curse is not good adept for stamina morph. But Familiar, specificaly the clanfear morph is. They are capable of making stamina based pets, just look at NB shades and Necromancer skeletal Archer.
Twilight Tormentor is another good adept to be a stamina morph.Edited by Olupajmibanan on April 16, 2019 3:04PM0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭alexthomp92 wrote: »So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.
First of all, at launch there was a completely different system where class abilities cost magicka and weapons (except for staves) cost stamina. So a stamSorc back in those days was basically a true battlemage - i.e. a stamina build that augmented itself using magic. And from a balance perspective this was a far better approach, b/c there was a clear line of separation between magicka and stamina.
Nowadays it is just a mess. Where do you draw the line? Stamina builds are continuously asking for more class abilities to be converted into stamina abilities. But that leads to
1) a reduction in choice / diversity available to magicka builds since there will be only 1 morph avaialble to them
2) a higher number of abilities and play styles available to stamina builds than to magicka builds b/c they got the same amount of class abilities PLUS more weapon skill lines.
Sure, you going to say that you don't want a stamina morph for every ability, but that's only b/c the other abilities are useless. You want the best of two worlds and that is just not going to work out balance-wise.
Secondly, at least in PvP stamSorcs are already very strong (as pointed out previously). Giving them better passives means buffing them. So in order for them to not overperform (even more), you'd have to be nerfed in some other areas and that's going to be tricky without affecting other stamina builds, since you have shared skill lines.
Honestly, the best thing you can do for the stamSorc is to turn it into a true Battlemage hybrid class and use the sorc passives to boost it stamina, stam regen, and or weapon damage to compensate for higher demand of magicka, mag regen, and spell damage when compared to other pure stamina builds. That way you are not gutting or buffing magSorcs, you are not indirectly gutting other stamina builds, and you can run around as stamina build feeling like a "sorcerer".
That's why the original system was much better. Sure it required stam builds to invest into magicka if they wanted to use class abilities, but magicka builds (to this day) are also required to invest into stamina if they want break-free, block, or dodge on a somewhat regular basis - as is required in PvP and in a lot of the PvE content.
4 -
alexthomp92✭✭✭If only Fengrush had not started this whole 'stamsorc' debacle.... Sorcerer... what does it have to do with stamina? Flex your muscles enough and magic appears?
Ahaha what are you on about?
@FENGRUSH the only Stam sorc?
There are a few of us this has been needed for a long time I have around 1700 hours in cyro on my Stam sorc
It is my child
And I weep for him
Anyways i think you are trying to imply that Stam sorcs are immersion breaking, in a high fantasy mmo......2 -
alexthomp92✭✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.
First of all, at launch there was a completely different system where class abilities cost magicka and weapons (except for staves) cost stamina. So a stamSorc back in those days was basically a true battlemage - i.e. a stamina build that augmented itself using magic. And from a balance perspective this was a far better approach, b/c there was a clear line of separation between magicka and stamina.
Nowadays it is just a mess. Where do you draw the line? Stamina builds are continuously asking for more class abilities to be converted into stamina abilities. But that leads to
1) a reduction in choice / diversity available to magicka builds since there will be only 1 morph avaialble to them
2) a higher number of abilities and play styles available to stamina builds than to magicka builds b/c they got the same amount of class abilities PLUS more weapon skill lines.
Sure, you going to say that you don't want a stamina morph for every ability, but that's only b/c the other abilities are useless. You want the best of two worlds and that is just not going to work out balance-wise.
Secondly, at least in PvP stamSorcs are already very strong (as pointed out previously). Giving them better passives means buffing them. So in order for them to not overperform (even more), you'd have to be nerfed in some other areas and that's going to be tricky without affecting other stamina builds, since you have shared skill lines.
Honestly, the best thing you can do for the stamSorc is to turn it into a true Battlemage hybrid class and use the sorc passives to boost it stamina, stam regen, and or weapon damage to compensate for higher demand of magicka, mag regen, and spell damage when compared to other pure stamina builds. That way you are not gutting or buffing magSorcs, you are not indirectly gutting other stamina builds, and you can run around as stamina build feeling like a "sorcerer".
That's why the original system was much better. Sure it required stam builds to invest into magicka if they wanted to use class abilities, but magicka builds (to this day) are also required to invest into stamina if they want break-free, block, or dodge on a somewhat regular basis - as is required in PvP and in a lot of the PvE content.
If they revert crit surge to heal for the amount of crit damage done I would be very happy0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭alexthomp92 wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.
First of all, at launch there was a completely different system where class abilities cost magicka and weapons (except for staves) cost stamina. So a stamSorc back in those days was basically a true battlemage - i.e. a stamina build that augmented itself using magic. And from a balance perspective this was a far better approach, b/c there was a clear line of separation between magicka and stamina.
Nowadays it is just a mess. Where do you draw the line? Stamina builds are continuously asking for more class abilities to be converted into stamina abilities. But that leads to
1) a reduction in choice / diversity available to magicka builds since there will be only 1 morph avaialble to them
2) a higher number of abilities and play styles available to stamina builds than to magicka builds b/c they got the same amount of class abilities PLUS more weapon skill lines.
Sure, you going to say that you don't want a stamina morph for every ability, but that's only b/c the other abilities are useless. You want the best of two worlds and that is just not going to work out balance-wise.
Secondly, at least in PvP stamSorcs are already very strong (as pointed out previously). Giving them better passives means buffing them. So in order for them to not overperform (even more), you'd have to be nerfed in some other areas and that's going to be tricky without affecting other stamina builds, since you have shared skill lines.
Honestly, the best thing you can do for the stamSorc is to turn it into a true Battlemage hybrid class and use the sorc passives to boost it stamina, stam regen, and or weapon damage to compensate for higher demand of magicka, mag regen, and spell damage when compared to other pure stamina builds. That way you are not gutting or buffing magSorcs, you are not indirectly gutting other stamina builds, and you can run around as stamina build feeling like a "sorcerer".
That's why the original system was much better. Sure it required stam builds to invest into magicka if they wanted to use class abilities, but magicka builds (to this day) are also required to invest into stamina if they want break-free, block, or dodge on a somewhat regular basis - as is required in PvP and in a lot of the PvE content.
If they revert crit surge to heal for the amount of crit damage done I would be very happy
That's not going to happen in a time where %-based is all transformed into absolute value-based (see racial passives). It would also probably be over the top in combination with vigor and/or momentum.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭If only Fengrush had not started this whole 'stamsorc' debacle.... Sorcerer... what does it have to do with stamina? Flex your muscles enough and magic appears?
That's why they are going on about "air attros", etc. b/c gases are the only thing you can magically make appear from flexing muscles
0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If only Fengrush had not started this whole 'stamsorc' debacle.... Sorcerer... what does it have to do with stamina? Flex your muscles enough and magic appears?
That's why they are going on about "air attros", etc. b/c gases are the only thing you can magically make appear from flexing muscles
Air Attronach is actually the best idea that would help stamsorcs. A lot of Stamsorcs use Greater Storm Attronachs over Ballista anyways. And Charged Storm Attronach is an unused morph so changing it wouldn't hurt anyone.
But I think it is too much of a work for lazy ZoS to change the appearance of the Attronach.Edited by Olupajmibanan on April 16, 2019 3:35PM1 -
alexthomp92✭✭✭🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter2 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter
Something from Dark Magic skill then? I don't believe that players use Crystal Blast. Maybe it could be reworked into different non-cast time stamina ability?
How about making Crystal Blast a stamina version of Crystal Fragments?0 -
alexthomp92✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter
Something from Dark Magic skill then? I don't believe that players use Crystal Blast. Maybe it could be reworked into different non-cast time stamina ability?
How about making Crystal Blast a stamina version of Crystal Fragments?
Originally that is what I thought, high burst, iconic to the class.
But the reason I swayed to curse was because of the Stam recovery passive in the daedric summoning skill line, this forces you into running bound armaments or atro to gain access and both skills are a little meh
Don't get me wrong the extra Stam is nice, the light attack damage is nice, but if there was an option to run another ability I think that would be better,
Maybe just a rework of passives may be needed for now, decoupling slotting abilities for gaining passives and just granting passives anyway,. (night blade increase recov 15% no need for skill on bar)1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter
Something from Dark Magic skill then? I don't believe that players use Crystal Blast. Maybe it could be reworked into different non-cast time stamina ability?
How about making Crystal Blast a stamina version of Crystal Fragments?
Originally that is what I thought, high burst, iconic to the class.
But the reason I swayed to curse was because of the Stam recovery passive in the daedric summoning skill line, this forces you into running bound armaments or atro to gain access and both skills are a little meh
Don't get me wrong the extra Stam is nice, the light attack damage is nice, but if there was an option to run another ability I think that would be better,
Maybe just a rework of passives may be needed for now, decoupling slotting abilities for gaining passives and just granting passives anyway,. (night blade increase recov 15% no need for skill on bar)
As I said, most stamsorcs run Bound Armaments front bar and Greater Storm Attronach back bar anyways to provide useful synergy for one party member. On top of that, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista in long fights even without buff from Daedric Prey.
Stamina version of Crystal Fragments is perfect. Adds a bit of flavour into stamsorc rotation in PvE and adds some nice burst in PvP.Edited by Olupajmibanan on April 16, 2019 3:55PM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »Please no more homogenization between magicka and stamina. It's already ridiculous as it is.
Thank you for your valid input, please feel free to elaborate on your point or why you do not like this, or how this would negatively impact upon other classes or play styles.
The call for stamina sorcs to have more class skills is not homogenisation, it's to create something that is unique (speaking from a Stam perspective)
All classes have access to weapon skill lines and Stam sorc has to rely on all of these as they have very little in their kit in terms of damage or utility.
A stamina curse would fit nicely into most Stam sorc builds, the ability does not have to be an exact clone of haunting curse, the main reason it is viable is because of the tree it belongs to.
Most Stam sorcs miss out on any class passives without "slotting" an ability from daedric summoning, the abilities that are slotted are not used actively and are there to serve as a gateway to the passives, surely it would be better if there was a skill we could actively use and benefit from having it on our bar
I do not like homogenization between magicka and stamina because even when both are competitive, the choice between different playstyles is diminished. A stamina and magicka morph for the same ability is in my view a particularly questionable design choice, as it also directly diminishes the morph choices for anyone using the ability along with tieing the new morphs to a skill design meant for a different class/main stat combination - you're not going to see something tailored to stam sorc from the ground up by asking for a stamina curse morph, so it seems a rather terrible tool to create class identity.
The approach I would like to see would be closely tied to making hybrids viable - diminishing returns on base stats, damage and resistances, hybrid friendly redesign of the cp system, turning some buffs from standardized into scaling buffs (still prevent stacking where it would create issues). This way, a build could be anywhere on a scale from pure stamina to pure magicka. Where there is a clear lack of stam skills, like with stam sorcerer, I'd much rather have some underused skill scrapped for an entirely new thing. For example, just replace bound armor, potentially put some of what it did into expert summoner since that passive should never have existed in the first place, and voila, stam sorc got a new, truly fitting skill and better access to the daedric protection passive.
After four years of moving in the opposite direction, this isn't very likely to happen, unfortunately.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter
Something from Dark Magic skill then? I don't believe that players use Crystal Blast. Maybe it could be reworked into different non-cast time stamina ability?
How about making Crystal Blast a stamina version of Crystal Fragments?
Originally that is what I thought, high burst, iconic to the class.
But the reason I swayed to curse was because of the Stam recovery passive in the daedric summoning skill line, this forces you into running bound armaments or atro to gain access and both skills are a little meh
Don't get me wrong the extra Stam is nice, the light attack damage is nice, but if there was an option to run another ability I think that would be better,
Maybe just a rework of passives may be needed for now, decoupling slotting abilities for gaining passives and just granting passives anyway,. (night blade increase recov 15% no need for skill on bar)
As I said, most stamsorcs run Bound Armaments front bar and Greater Storm Attronach back bar anyways to provide useful synergy for one party member. On top of that, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista in long fights even without buff from Daedric Prey.
Stamina version of Crystal Fragments is perfect. Adds a bit of flavour into stamsorc rotation in PvE and adds some nice burst in PvP.
They run Bound Armaments "anyways" because it's the only skill that benefits them somehow on front. But more than that, it's dead weight. Alex rightfully said the stam & la buff is nice but you, as a mag sorc (I just assume you play one), should know best what cramped bar space means.
Atro is backbar, yes, but they would greatly benefit from a morph that does their own type of damage. It would stay backbar.1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter
Something from Dark Magic skill then? I don't believe that players use Crystal Blast. Maybe it could be reworked into different non-cast time stamina ability?
How about making Crystal Blast a stamina version of Crystal Fragments?
Originally that is what I thought, high burst, iconic to the class.
But the reason I swayed to curse was because of the Stam recovery passive in the daedric summoning skill line, this forces you into running bound armaments or atro to gain access and both skills are a little meh
Don't get me wrong the extra Stam is nice, the light attack damage is nice, but if there was an option to run another ability I think that would be better,
Maybe just a rework of passives may be needed for now, decoupling slotting abilities for gaining passives and just granting passives anyway,. (night blade increase recov 15% no need for skill on bar)
As I said, most stamsorcs run Bound Armaments front bar and Greater Storm Attronach back bar anyways to provide useful synergy for one party member. On top of that, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista in long fights even without buff from Daedric Prey.
Stamina version of Crystal Fragments is perfect. Adds a bit of flavour into stamsorc rotation in PvE and adds some nice burst in PvP.
They run Bound Armaments "anyways" because it's the only skill that benefits them somehow on front. But more than that, it's dead weight. Alex rightfully said the stam & la buff is nice but you, as a mag sorc (I just assume you play one), should know best what cramped bar space means.
Atro is backbar, yes, but they would greatly benefit from a morph that does their own type of damage. It would stay backbar.
I agree. But Alex also immediately denied idea of Stam morph for Attronach or any other pet.
Sorcerer has so many unused skills. The Clanfear, Charged Storm Attronach, Crystal Blast etc. etc. All could be reworked to some nice stamina beneficient ability.Edited by Olupajmibanan on April 16, 2019 4:11PM0 -
alexthomp92✭✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »Please no more homogenization between magicka and stamina. It's already ridiculous as it is.
Thank you for your valid input, please feel free to elaborate on your point or why you do not like this, or how this would negatively impact upon other classes or play styles.
The call for stamina sorcs to have more class skills is not homogenisation, it's to create something that is unique (speaking from a Stam perspective)
All classes have access to weapon skill lines and Stam sorc has to rely on all of these as they have very little in their kit in terms of damage or utility.
A stamina curse would fit nicely into most Stam sorc builds, the ability does not have to be an exact clone of haunting curse, the main reason it is viable is because of the tree it belongs to.
Most Stam sorcs miss out on any class passives without "slotting" an ability from daedric summoning, the abilities that are slotted are not used actively and are there to serve as a gateway to the passives, surely it would be better if there was a skill we could actively use and benefit from having it on our bar
I do not like homogenization between magicka and stamina because even when both are competitive, the choice between different playstyles is diminished. A stamina and magicka morph for the same ability is in my view a particularly questionable design choice, as it also directly diminishes the morph choices for anyone using the ability along with tieing the new morphs to a skill design meant for a different class/main stat combination - you're not going to see something tailored to stam sorc from the ground up by asking for a stamina curse morph, so it seems a rather terrible tool to create class identity.
The approach I would like to see would be closely tied to making hybrids viable - diminishing returns on base stats, damage and resistances, hybrid friendly redesign of the cp system, turning some buffs from standardized into scaling buffs (still prevent stacking where it would create issues). This way, a build could be anywhere on a scale from pure stamina to pure magicka. Where there is a clear lack of stam skills, like with stam sorcerer, I'd much rather have some underused skill scrapped for an entirely new thing. For example, just replace bound armor, potentially put some of what it did into expert summoner since that passive should never have existed in the first place, and voila, stam sorc got a new, truly fitting skill and better access to the daedric protection passive.
After four years of moving in the opposite direction, this isn't very likely to happen, unfortunately.
You have a valid point, however in PvP currently to play a hybrid is to gimp yourself, a new system with CP or game design changing to favour hybrid or gray the line between Stam and mag would likely help to achieve this,
But just as Stam sorc changes have been wanting for a long time so has this, I have spent time playing almost every other PvP spec, and it is day and night when you look at what other classes have in comparison to Stam sorc.
Regardless I don't want to drop the class because of lack of dev attention or changes0 -
troomar✭✭✭✭You're beating a dead horse. This whole update is about "class balance" and "skills overhaul" and yet stamSorcs get nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why do you even keep talking about changes to stamSorcs when nothing is gonna happen anyway?Yes.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter
Something from Dark Magic skill then? I don't believe that players use Crystal Blast. Maybe it could be reworked into different non-cast time stamina ability?
How about making Crystal Blast a stamina version of Crystal Fragments?
Originally that is what I thought, high burst, iconic to the class.
But the reason I swayed to curse was because of the Stam recovery passive in the daedric summoning skill line, this forces you into running bound armaments or atro to gain access and both skills are a little meh
Don't get me wrong the extra Stam is nice, the light attack damage is nice, but if there was an option to run another ability I think that would be better,
Maybe just a rework of passives may be needed for now, decoupling slotting abilities for gaining passives and just granting passives anyway,. (night blade increase recov 15% no need for skill on bar)
As I said, most stamsorcs run Bound Armaments front bar and Greater Storm Attronach back bar anyways to provide useful synergy for one party member. On top of that, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista in long fights even without buff from Daedric Prey.
Stamina version of Crystal Fragments is perfect. Adds a bit of flavour into stamsorc rotation in PvE and adds some nice burst in PvP.
They run Bound Armaments "anyways" because it's the only skill that benefits them somehow on front. But more than that, it's dead weight. Alex rightfully said the stam & la buff is nice but you, as a mag sorc (I just assume you play one), should know best what cramped bar space means.
Atro is backbar, yes, but they would greatly benefit from a morph that does their own type of damage. It would stay backbar.
I agree. But Alex also immediately denied idea of Stam morph for Attronach or any other pet.
Sorcerer has so many unused skills. The Clanfear, Charged Storm Attronach, Crystal Blast etc. etc. All could be reworked to some nice stamina beneficient ability.
Indeed, they could but is there really something to gain from changing Clannfear to a stam dps pet instead of pushing it towards sorc tanks? I doubt they'd like to have another strain on stam.
Blast is always solid choice but the bigger benefit would come from curse. Blast benefits from Blood Magic (neglectable) and exploitation (solid group buff but useless for yourself) while Curse comes with the much needed sustain.
And about atro - just because it takes a bit of work by changing animations and assets - doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.
However, before this comes full circle again I'd like to say that I believe ZOS is doing it the wrong way around. Your base is the passives and you mold your skills after that, not change skills first (ha - as if they really changed) and then see if 50% of your passives are lacking.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexthomp92 wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Please no more homogenization between magicka and stamina. It's already ridiculous as it is.
Thank you for your valid input, please feel free to elaborate on your point or why you do not like this, or how this would negatively impact upon other classes or play styles.
The call for stamina sorcs to have more class skills is not homogenisation, it's to create something that is unique (speaking from a Stam perspective)
All classes have access to weapon skill lines and Stam sorc has to rely on all of these as they have very little in their kit in terms of damage or utility.
A stamina curse would fit nicely into most Stam sorc builds, the ability does not have to be an exact clone of haunting curse, the main reason it is viable is because of the tree it belongs to.
Most Stam sorcs miss out on any class passives without "slotting" an ability from daedric summoning, the abilities that are slotted are not used actively and are there to serve as a gateway to the passives, surely it would be better if there was a skill we could actively use and benefit from having it on our bar
I do not like homogenization between magicka and stamina because even when both are competitive, the choice between different playstyles is diminished. A stamina and magicka morph for the same ability is in my view a particularly questionable design choice, as it also directly diminishes the morph choices for anyone using the ability along with tieing the new morphs to a skill design meant for a different class/main stat combination - you're not going to see something tailored to stam sorc from the ground up by asking for a stamina curse morph, so it seems a rather terrible tool to create class identity.
The approach I would like to see would be closely tied to making hybrids viable - diminishing returns on base stats, damage and resistances, hybrid friendly redesign of the cp system, turning some buffs from standardized into scaling buffs (still prevent stacking where it would create issues). This way, a build could be anywhere on a scale from pure stamina to pure magicka. Where there is a clear lack of stam skills, like with stam sorcerer, I'd much rather have some underused skill scrapped for an entirely new thing. For example, just replace bound armor, potentially put some of what it did into expert summoner since that passive should never have existed in the first place, and voila, stam sorc got a new, truly fitting skill and better access to the daedric protection passive.
After four years of moving in the opposite direction, this isn't very likely to happen, unfortunately.
You have a valid point, however in PvP currently to play a hybrid is to gimp yourself
Every patch I try out the hybrid approach and I can tell you, if you aren't going to be a tank it just isn't going to go well. However, the ironic part about it is that playing an hybrid sorcerer - no matter how lacking it turns out - is so much more fun than simply going stam.
Curse into Dizzy feels like it's a combo that is actual ment to be. Frags into Crit Rush feels so smooth. Even PI, Snipe and Wrath are going well together.
But then you look at the damage numbers and how low your healing, your regen and crit is and you stray back to the ususal approach anyway.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on April 16, 2019 4:29PM3 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Please no more homogenization between magicka and stamina. It's already ridiculous as it is.
Thank you for your valid input, please feel free to elaborate on your point or why you do not like this, or how this would negatively impact upon other classes or play styles.
The call for stamina sorcs to have more class skills is not homogenisation, it's to create something that is unique (speaking from a Stam perspective)
All classes have access to weapon skill lines and Stam sorc has to rely on all of these as they have very little in their kit in terms of damage or utility.
A stamina curse would fit nicely into most Stam sorc builds, the ability does not have to be an exact clone of haunting curse, the main reason it is viable is because of the tree it belongs to.
Most Stam sorcs miss out on any class passives without "slotting" an ability from daedric summoning, the abilities that are slotted are not used actively and are there to serve as a gateway to the passives, surely it would be better if there was a skill we could actively use and benefit from having it on our bar
I do not like homogenization between magicka and stamina because even when both are competitive, the choice between different playstyles is diminished. A stamina and magicka morph for the same ability is in my view a particularly questionable design choice, as it also directly diminishes the morph choices for anyone using the ability along with tieing the new morphs to a skill design meant for a different class/main stat combination - you're not going to see something tailored to stam sorc from the ground up by asking for a stamina curse morph, so it seems a rather terrible tool to create class identity.
The approach I would like to see would be closely tied to making hybrids viable - diminishing returns on base stats, damage and resistances, hybrid friendly redesign of the cp system, turning some buffs from standardized into scaling buffs (still prevent stacking where it would create issues). This way, a build could be anywhere on a scale from pure stamina to pure magicka. Where there is a clear lack of stam skills, like with stam sorcerer, I'd much rather have some underused skill scrapped for an entirely new thing. For example, just replace bound armor, potentially put some of what it did into expert summoner since that passive should never have existed in the first place, and voila, stam sorc got a new, truly fitting skill and better access to the daedric protection passive.
After four years of moving in the opposite direction, this isn't very likely to happen, unfortunately.
You have a valid point, however in PvP currently to play a hybrid is to gimp yourself
Every patch I try out the hybrid approach and I can tell you, if you aren't going to be a tank it just isn't going to go well. However, the ironic part about it is that playing an hybrid sorcerer - no matter how lacking it turns out - is so much more fun than simply going stam.
Curse into Dizzy feels like it's a combo that is actual ment to be. Frags into Crit Rush feels so smooth. Even PI, Snipe and Wrath are going well together.
But then you look at the damage numbers and how low your healing, your regen and crit is and you stray back to the ususal approach anyway.
Agreed.
There is a lot of potential on how some of the Sorc skills pair up with other Stam abilities in terms of combos. Right now StamSorc isn't terrible. I've been PvPing on my StamSorc for two years now and I feel like the class currently is as good as it's been in a while. However the problem is, especially with this patch other Stam classes are just better. Cauterize on a StamDK on PTS right now is no joke.
I really don't understand the change with streak, scaling with your highest stat. It still costs magicka and the cost compounds so even if you had a decent mag pool (as a StamSorc) you couldn't spam it. However, by making this change to Streak it is apparent that ZoS is *trying* to do something in regards to catering to both mag and stam, it's just a shame it couldn't be Curse, Crystal Shard or Mages Fury. Also if they do this, they need to make sure that if it scales off max stam/weapon damage that it also does physical damage, otherwise in a CP environment it won't matter much..Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
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Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭alexthomp92 wrote: »🤣
Personally the last thing I would want to see for Stam sorc is a pet of any description, pets are too slow and clunky and I feel Stam sorc plays at its best when moving and being agile.
Going back to your previous points, I do believe that Stam sorc needs the following:
A physical damage morph of an active ability
A way to better utilise the passives on offer
A solid form of healing that isn't troll king
Stam curse is one idea for damage but we can all agree that something should be done.
Somehow is another matter
The proposed Air Attro is actually a good idea, since it is an ultimate (paid for in ulti) and will deal physical damage.
Your refusal of not wanting to have pets while understandable, is exactly what I described earlier: stamSorcs want to cherry pick and have the best of both worlds - i.e. their current stam tool kit plus a stam morph for all the good magicka abilities. That just won't work. Pets would actually be the best abilities to adapt to stam builds b/c you can pay magicka to summon them (like mag builds have to pay stam to break free for example) and then the active ability of the pet can be a stamina ability dealing physical damage.
The pets would also give you access to passives.
Pets would also give stam Sorcs identity. And thematically are a better fit for stamSorcs (stam builds with a little bit of magic) than for magSorcs (mag builds with pure magic)
As for the healing part, that is pretty bad on sorcs in general aside from the overperforming Twilight, so there is not a lot you can salvage / steal from magicka sorcs here. In fact, with vigor and momentum you already got better healing.0 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
Edited by Thraben on April 16, 2019 8:58PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.4