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Stamina curse
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Intextio✭✭✭I'd say make shards a stamina morph. We all know no mag user uses that one morph anyways.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.
Well, Ican turn this argument around and say that you're only throwing out the trash and making mag and stam the same if you give them the exactly same pet spells - while not solving the real issue: standarized offensive moves for stam sorcs that every other stam build can use not only just as well, but also even better bc they can combine it with their own class dmg skills. Not to mention that playing a pet build without Curse is a no-go.
So sure, make arguments for stamina pets but then go all the way and throw curse in the mix as well.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on April 17, 2019 8:33AM0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.
Well, Ican turn this argument around and say that you're only throwing out the trash and making mag and stam the same if you give them the exactly same pet spells - while not solving the real issue: standarized offensive moves for stam sorcs that every other stam build can use not only just as well, but also even better bc they can combine it with their own class dmg skills. Not to mention that playing a pet build without Curse is a no-go.
So sure, make arguments for stamina pets but then go all the way and throw curse in the mix as well.
A lot of players in this thread said this and I completely agree with them: both morphs of curse are being used, a lot. There are plenty of unused skills instead (e.g. Crystal Blast), that can be turned into some nice stamina ability. If you look at the comments in this thread, there are ONLY positive comments on making Crystal Blast a stamina version of Crystal Fragments, unlike stamina Curse which is rejected idea by a lot of players.
As for the pets, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without curse, and on top of that it provides nice synergy. Changing Charged Storm Attronach into Air Attronach doing physical damage is actually the best idea I've seen so far.Edited by Olupajmibanan on April 17, 2019 9:39AM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.
Well, Ican turn this argument around and say that you're only throwing out the trash and making mag and stam the same if you give them the exactly same pet spells - while not solving the real issue: standarized offensive moves for stam sorcs that every other stam build can use not only just as well, but also even better bc they can combine it with their own class dmg skills. Not to mention that playing a pet build without Curse is a no-go.
So sure, make arguments for stamina pets but then go all the way and throw curse in the mix as well.
A lot of players in this thread said this and I completely agree with them: both morphs of curse are being used, a lot. There are plenty of unused skills (e.g. Crystal Blast) that can be turned into some nice stamina ability.
As for the pets, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without curse, and on top of that it provides nice synergy. Changing Charged Storm Attronach into Air Attronach doing physical damage is actually the best idea I've seen so far.
Must be great to live in PvE only.
And also, "you" are willing to share pets - but you aren't willing to share what makes pet that strong. Seems like an half baked idea.
To not let this slide here I ask you: what good would it do to give stamsorcs pets like Clannfear? All that "Hurr durr, you're nitpicking" aside. Instead of being able to use Daedric Protection via 1 slot (e.g. only on front) now we have to always use two. Plus without curse you're gutting damage by then 40%. Doesn't sound like a fair deal. Despite that Clannfear isn't even DPS oriented, it's more like the tanking pet.
Changing Storm Atro is nice and welcome, but then again the 40% damage loss compared to magsorcs and it's already backbared. It's a plain numbers buff so to say. Good, I won't argue against that it doesn't solve the identity crisis, especially not in PvP.
What could solve those crisis? Actual active skills. There are only a few that presents themselves. The trash morph of frags, Curse and Fury. Now mind that we're cramped on barspace and lacking in passives. So whatever skill we should choose, it should make a difference in both.
Wraht - TBH I don't even know which morph you'd pass. But stamina executes aren't really rare and the storm calling passives aren't what we're in need of.
Frags - iconic, blast is underwhelming, obivous candidate. However, the passives it procs are neglectable for stam sorcs. The heal is too tiny and the mag crit is a) of no use for us and b) even in pve groups you'd prefer it procced from mag sorcs bc they also have that LL synergy.
So if we choose any of that we'd still have to run a dead skill on front while magsorcs get all the stuff anyway from either running pet, curse or ward on front. We're still in dire need of an effective way to get 20% stam regen from. Not much would change in that departement.
Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on April 17, 2019 9:51AM0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.
Well, Ican turn this argument around and say that you're only throwing out the trash and making mag and stam the same if you give them the exactly same pet spells - while not solving the real issue: standarized offensive moves for stam sorcs that every other stam build can use not only just as well, but also even better bc they can combine it with their own class dmg skills. Not to mention that playing a pet build without Curse is a no-go.
So sure, make arguments for stamina pets but then go all the way and throw curse in the mix as well.
A lot of players in this thread said this and I completely agree with them: both morphs of curse are being used, a lot. There are plenty of unused skills (e.g. Crystal Blast) that can be turned into some nice stamina ability.
As for the pets, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without curse, and on top of that it provides nice synergy. Changing Charged Storm Attronach into Air Attronach doing physical damage is actually the best idea I've seen so far.
Must be great to live in PvE only.
And also, "you" are willing to share pets - but you aren't willing to share what makes pet that strong. Seems like an half baked idea.
You read the comment? Greater Storm Attronach, a pet doing shock damage, does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without Curse.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.
Well, Ican turn this argument around and say that you're only throwing out the trash and making mag and stam the same if you give them the exactly same pet spells - while not solving the real issue: standarized offensive moves for stam sorcs that every other stam build can use not only just as well, but also even better bc they can combine it with their own class dmg skills. Not to mention that playing a pet build without Curse is a no-go.
So sure, make arguments for stamina pets but then go all the way and throw curse in the mix as well.
A lot of players in this thread said this and I completely agree with them: both morphs of curse are being used, a lot. There are plenty of unused skills (e.g. Crystal Blast) that can be turned into some nice stamina ability.
As for the pets, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without curse, and on top of that it provides nice synergy. Changing Charged Storm Attronach into Air Attronach doing physical damage is actually the best idea I've seen so far.
Must be great to live in PvE only.
And also, "you" are willing to share pets - but you aren't willing to share what makes pet that strong. Seems like an half baked idea.
You read the comment? Greater Storm Attronach, a pet doing shock damage, does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without Curse.
I edited above. It would only be a numerical buff, nothing that helps us proc front bar passives or given more identity than we currently have. + it's mostly pve.0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Yeah, stam sorcs definitely need a buff b/c they are so underperforming in PvP ... oh wait. Stop trying to get a stamina equivalent for each magicka class ability. You already got a far greater selection of weapons to choose from. You got built-in defensive and mobility tools - i.e. dodge, block, sprint - that are NOT adversely affected by lag like all the other defensive & mobility tools. And you got the best mobility in the game. You got about as much streak as magicka sorcs and the sprinting + dodging from stamina builds.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
The only thing that would kinda make sense would be a pet summoned by magicka but dealing physical damage. But no, you want the magSorcs core abilities as stamina equivalents and also retain all your other benefits. In other words you basically want to become a magSorc+ or a superior magSorc ... yeah no!
It is evident that you have not mained a Stam sorc at any point.
It is evident that you also have not read anything else posted in this thread.
So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »It doesn't have to be the same as it is currently but a physical morph of this skill would go along way to help balance out Stam sorcs kit, as it has the least of any class
And what would you take away? Daedric Prey? You want to get rid of petsorcs completely? Haunting Curse? You want go get rid of non-petsorcs and PvP magsorcs completely?
Stamina morph of Curse = definitely not. Maybe if they keep it as it is and give it scaling with higher stats.
If you combined both the current morphs you would not lose anything from either one.
Please calm down and think about more than just mag sorc for 2 mins
[Edit for typo]
As I said, they can just make Curse scaling from your stamina and weapon damage if its higher. As long as they keep current functionality and magicka cost on both morphs, I am fine with it.
Combining Haunting Curse and Daedric Prey would be a tremendous buff to magsorcs that nobody is asking for. I don't know if you are trolling or what.
Daedric Prey
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1081 Magic Damage to the target and 499 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 6 seconds.
While the curse is active, your pets deal an additional 55% damage to the target except for the Storm Atronach which only deals an additional 40% damage.
You can have only one Daedric Prey active at a time.
Haunting Curse
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
The curse will continue to haunt the enemy and explode a second time, dealing an additional 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 8.5 seconds.
You can have only one Haunting Curse active at a time.
It's almost the same skill bro
Non pet sorcs will allow the second curse to go off before recast
Pet sorcs will recast for bonus damage
Not really a buff for mag sorc at all
No troll just want to help represent the persecuted
The new curse combined would do first explosion at 3,5th second mark and second explosion at 12th second mark. That means, uptime on bonus pet damage doubled making the rotation a lot easier and saving a lot of resources.
Negative, pet damage is only on first curse but leaves a mark on target which explodes again
That would nerf one of the magsorcs. 3,5 seconds on bonus pet damage is unbearable for petsorcs. And if they make first explosion at 6th sec that would be a huge nerf to PvP magsorc.
Again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Not necessarily 6 seconds on the curse would allow more time on preparation for burst, (in PvP) it's also the length of CC immunity meaning that if played well you could be a little more dangerous.
This is progression though.
Together as a community we need to come to a solution that helps Stam sorcs access more of their passives or make more passives applicable
Keep functionality.
Keep magicka cost.
Let it scale from your highest max stats.
Magsorcs untouched and stamsorc would have powerful new tool.
I would really like to see you playing with 6 seconds delayed Shalks for example
If it does not do physical damage then it does not benefit from the bulk of your CP as a Stam character,
Also shalks is not a Stam sorc move......
Power of the light and purifying light is 6 seconds though, seem pretty sweet to me
So can we move to another skill? Curse is not good adept for stamina morph. But Familiar, specificaly the clanfear morph is. They are capable of making stamina based pets, just look at NB shades and Necromancer skeletal Archer.
Twilight Tormentor is another good adept to be a stamina morph.
We dont want more pets, i dont want to run a pet. Screw that. Curse would be fine.
People saying stam frags will regret it, at base it has a cast time remember, they wont make both morphs identical, bad idea imo.Edited by psychotic13 on April 17, 2019 9:58AM0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Yeah, stam sorcs definitely need a buff b/c they are so underperforming in PvP ... oh wait. Stop trying to get a stamina equivalent for each magicka class ability. You already got a far greater selection of weapons to choose from. You got built-in defensive and mobility tools - i.e. dodge, block, sprint - that are NOT adversely affected by lag like all the other defensive & mobility tools. And you got the best mobility in the game. You got about as much streak as magicka sorcs and the sprinting + dodging from stamina builds.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
The only thing that would kinda make sense would be a pet summoned by magicka but dealing physical damage. But no, you want the magSorcs core abilities as stamina equivalents and also retain all your other benefits. In other words you basically want to become a magSorc+ or a superior magSorc ... yeah no!
It is evident that you have not mained a Stam sorc at any point.
It is evident that you also have not read anything else posted in this thread.
So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »It doesn't have to be the same as it is currently but a physical morph of this skill would go along way to help balance out Stam sorcs kit, as it has the least of any class
And what would you take away? Daedric Prey? You want to get rid of petsorcs completely? Haunting Curse? You want go get rid of non-petsorcs and PvP magsorcs completely?
Stamina morph of Curse = definitely not. Maybe if they keep it as it is and give it scaling with higher stats.
If you combined both the current morphs you would not lose anything from either one.
Please calm down and think about more than just mag sorc for 2 mins
[Edit for typo]
As I said, they can just make Curse scaling from your stamina and weapon damage if its higher. As long as they keep current functionality and magicka cost on both morphs, I am fine with it.
Combining Haunting Curse and Daedric Prey would be a tremendous buff to magsorcs that nobody is asking for. I don't know if you are trolling or what.
Daedric Prey
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1081 Magic Damage to the target and 499 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 6 seconds.
While the curse is active, your pets deal an additional 55% damage to the target except for the Storm Atronach which only deals an additional 40% damage.
You can have only one Daedric Prey active at a time.
Haunting Curse
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
The curse will continue to haunt the enemy and explode a second time, dealing an additional 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 8.5 seconds.
You can have only one Haunting Curse active at a time.
It's almost the same skill bro
Non pet sorcs will allow the second curse to go off before recast
Pet sorcs will recast for bonus damage
Not really a buff for mag sorc at all
No troll just want to help represent the persecuted
The new curse combined would do first explosion at 3,5th second mark and second explosion at 12th second mark. That means, uptime on bonus pet damage doubled making the rotation a lot easier and saving a lot of resources.
Negative, pet damage is only on first curse but leaves a mark on target which explodes again
That would nerf one of the magsorcs. 3,5 seconds on bonus pet damage is unbearable for petsorcs. And if they make first explosion at 6th sec that would be a huge nerf to PvP magsorc.
Again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Not necessarily 6 seconds on the curse would allow more time on preparation for burst, (in PvP) it's also the length of CC immunity meaning that if played well you could be a little more dangerous.
This is progression though.
Together as a community we need to come to a solution that helps Stam sorcs access more of their passives or make more passives applicable
Keep functionality.
Keep magicka cost.
Let it scale from your highest max stats.
Magsorcs untouched and stamsorc would have powerful new tool.
I would really like to see you playing with 6 seconds delayed Shalks for example
If it does not do physical damage then it does not benefit from the bulk of your CP as a Stam character,
Also shalks is not a Stam sorc move......
Power of the light and purifying light is 6 seconds though, seem pretty sweet to me
So can we move to another skill? Curse is not good adept for stamina morph. But Familiar, specificaly the clanfear morph is. They are capable of making stamina based pets, just look at NB shades and Necromancer skeletal Archer.
Twilight Tormentor is another good adept to be a stamina morph.
We dont want more pets, i dont want to run a pet. Screw that. Curse would be fine.
And what do you think about stamina Fragments?0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »Yeah, stam sorcs definitely need a buff b/c they are so underperforming in PvP ... oh wait. Stop trying to get a stamina equivalent for each magicka class ability. You already got a far greater selection of weapons to choose from. You got built-in defensive and mobility tools - i.e. dodge, block, sprint - that are NOT adversely affected by lag like all the other defensive & mobility tools. And you got the best mobility in the game. You got about as much streak as magicka sorcs and the sprinting + dodging from stamina builds.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
The only thing that would kinda make sense would be a pet summoned by magicka but dealing physical damage. But no, you want the magSorcs core abilities as stamina equivalents and also retain all your other benefits. In other words you basically want to become a magSorc+ or a superior magSorc ... yeah no!
It is evident that you have not mained a Stam sorc at any point.
It is evident that you also have not read anything else posted in this thread.
So hold on to your under garments, collect your self and please try to realise that Stam sorc is in dire need of more use of the class passives, regardless of lore or anything else Stam sorc is a thing and has been since launch, I'm just trying to get a dialogue open to brainstorm ideas that could help to balance things a little for Stam sorc.Olupajmibanan wrote: »alexthomp92 wrote: »It doesn't have to be the same as it is currently but a physical morph of this skill would go along way to help balance out Stam sorcs kit, as it has the least of any class
And what would you take away? Daedric Prey? You want to get rid of petsorcs completely? Haunting Curse? You want go get rid of non-petsorcs and PvP magsorcs completely?
Stamina morph of Curse = definitely not. Maybe if they keep it as it is and give it scaling with higher stats.
If you combined both the current morphs you would not lose anything from either one.
Please calm down and think about more than just mag sorc for 2 mins
[Edit for typo]
As I said, they can just make Curse scaling from your stamina and weapon damage if its higher. As long as they keep current functionality and magicka cost on both morphs, I am fine with it.
Combining Haunting Curse and Daedric Prey would be a tremendous buff to magsorcs that nobody is asking for. I don't know if you are trolling or what.
Daedric Prey
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1081 Magic Damage to the target and 499 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 6 seconds.
While the curse is active, your pets deal an additional 55% damage to the target except for the Storm Atronach which only deals an additional 40% damage.
You can have only one Daedric Prey active at a time.
Haunting Curse
Curse an enemy with a destruction rune, dealing 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 3.5 seconds.
The curse will continue to haunt the enemy and explode a second time, dealing an additional 1030 Magic Damage to the target and 475 Magic Damage to all other nearby enemies after 8.5 seconds.
You can have only one Haunting Curse active at a time.
It's almost the same skill bro
Non pet sorcs will allow the second curse to go off before recast
Pet sorcs will recast for bonus damage
Not really a buff for mag sorc at all
No troll just want to help represent the persecuted
The new curse combined would do first explosion at 3,5th second mark and second explosion at 12th second mark. That means, uptime on bonus pet damage doubled making the rotation a lot easier and saving a lot of resources.
Negative, pet damage is only on first curse but leaves a mark on target which explodes again
That would nerf one of the magsorcs. 3,5 seconds on bonus pet damage is unbearable for petsorcs. And if they make first explosion at 6th sec that would be a huge nerf to PvP magsorc.
Again and again. No need to change the current functionality to make it viable for stamsorc. Just let both morphs be as they are, but let them scale with your highest max stats. It's not impossible because they did this with a lot of abilities this patch.
Not necessarily 6 seconds on the curse would allow more time on preparation for burst, (in PvP) it's also the length of CC immunity meaning that if played well you could be a little more dangerous.
This is progression though.
Together as a community we need to come to a solution that helps Stam sorcs access more of their passives or make more passives applicable
Keep functionality.
Keep magicka cost.
Let it scale from your highest max stats.
Magsorcs untouched and stamsorc would have powerful new tool.
I would really like to see you playing with 6 seconds delayed Shalks for example
If it does not do physical damage then it does not benefit from the bulk of your CP as a Stam character,
Also shalks is not a Stam sorc move......
Power of the light and purifying light is 6 seconds though, seem pretty sweet to me
So can we move to another skill? Curse is not good adept for stamina morph. But Familiar, specificaly the clanfear morph is. They are capable of making stamina based pets, just look at NB shades and Necromancer skeletal Archer.
Twilight Tormentor is another good adept to be a stamina morph.
We dont want more pets, i dont want to run a pet. Screw that. Curse would be fine.
And what do you think about stamina Fragments?
Edited to say haha my bad0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭Stam sorc can get some kind of other buff... air atro or stam frags. Having a pet and non-pet morph of curse is pretty necessary for magsorcs.
On a side note, I can't think of a skill that makes LESS sense thematically than a stamina CURSE. A curse is almost by definition magic. I actually feel this way about a lot of stamina class skills but :shrug:.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x20 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭lassitershawn wrote: »Stam sorc can get some kind of other buff... air atro or stam frags. Having a pet and non-pet morph of curse is pretty necessary for magsorcs.
On a side note, I can't think of a skill that makes LESS sense thematically than a stamina CURSE. A curse is almost by definition magic. I actually feel this way about a lot of stamina class skills but :shrug:.
Balance is more important than lore, thats just me though i understand lore is important to people, but having the game work in a balanced manner is more important to me.
Air atro could work, but depends how, if its like the storm atro i wont be using it, i move around to much especially on argubely the fastest class.
As i said above, i cant see stam frags working, id imagine it would have a cast time like the base morph cause magicka already gets the morph for instant cast.
And sorcs needs a pet morph of curse yes, just make haunting scale off of highest stat like DKs flames of oblivion, it can still cost magicka cause its a delayed ability its not something youre going to cast constantly.0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »lassitershawn wrote: »Stam sorc can get some kind of other buff... air atro or stam frags. Having a pet and non-pet morph of curse is pretty necessary for magsorcs.
On a side note, I can't think of a skill that makes LESS sense thematically than a stamina CURSE. A curse is almost by definition magic. I actually feel this way about a lot of stamina class skills but :shrug:.
Balance is more important than lore, thats just me though i understand lore is important to people, but having the game work in a balanced manner is more important to me.
Air atro could work, but depends how, if its like the storm atro i wont be using it, i move around to much especially on argubely the fastest class.
As i said above, i cant see stam frags working, id imagine it would have a cast time like the base morph cause magicka already gets the morph for instant cast.
And sorcs needs a pet morph of curse yes, just make haunting scale off of highest stat like DKs flames of oblivion, it can still cost magicka cause its a delayed ability its not something youre going to cast constantly.
Ok I main PvE and assumed the post was regarding that, my bad. I'd imagine air atro would be extremely desirable for PvE stamsorcs because major berserk is a crazy strong buff to give your team and ultimate mobility is a nonissue. My thoughts for a stamina frags would be like a spammable crystal sword akin to surprise attack (would be interesting in that it would actually be pretty strong HPS on user as a spammable through blood magic). The bolded change is acceptable to me though I still think it makes no sense thematically xDWilliam Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x20 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭lassitershawn wrote: »Stam sorc can get some kind of other buff... air atro or stam frags. Having a pet and non-pet morph of curse is pretty necessary for magsorcs.
On a side note, I can't think of a skill that makes LESS sense thematically than a stamina CURSE. A curse is almost by definition magic. I actually feel this way about a lot of stamina class skills but :shrug:.
Summoning a poison cloud by flexing my dragonknight's bicep.
Summoning a walking cadaver by flexing my Necromancer's behind.
Summoning holy spears by flexing my Templar's abs.
All seems legit, right? Gameplay mechanics have huge impact on any game, so just about that. If you want, imagine it as an rapidly expanding/ exploding air bubble I summoned in your body by flexing my stamsorcs left cheek.
And it was mentioned earlier (or in another thread, there are so many of them which alone should show that sS need something), you could melt the two mag curses into one, just dropping off the pet buff somewhere before the second proc so you can either have constant pet buff uptime or a lesser strain on your resources. Only issue would be how long it should take before the first proc happens. And just as a frendly reminder: there was a time without a second proc at all.
Issue with Atro are that it would "only" be a numerical dps buff for PvE, but it wouldn't help with identity (they already use atro) or buffs (already in use, backbar only).
Issue with frags is that it won't help us with proccing daedric proteciton, arguably an highly important buff for stamsorcs. They would still be forced into running Bound Armaments for the passives only.
Another elegant solution would be to make BA's active part actually useful.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on April 17, 2019 10:16AM0 -
BRODY✭✭Give stamsorc major or minor fracture with hurricane, give daedric prey stamina morph and poison damage. Thats all, what we need!!
Take back your freaking stamina streak!!!Stamsorc EU PC Dagerfall alliance - On0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »lassitershawn wrote: »Stam sorc can get some kind of other buff... air atro or stam frags. Having a pet and non-pet morph of curse is pretty necessary for magsorcs.
On a side note, I can't think of a skill that makes LESS sense thematically than a stamina CURSE. A curse is almost by definition magic. I actually feel this way about a lot of stamina class skills but :shrug:.
Summoning a poison cloud by flexing my dragonknight's bicep.
Summoning a walking cadaver by flexing my Necromancer's behind.
Summoning holy spears by flexing my Templar's abs.
:shrug: Almost no class stamina morphs really make sense... stamplar and stamblade mostly do (not power extraction for example), even though the weapons would be "bound weapons" in ES lore stamina would be the more important part of using them and smashing stuff. Imo if ZoS had designed the game better from the start we would just have primarly stamina classes and primarly magicka classes that make more sense thematically and have more morph options for their designed spec.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x20 -
Ladislao✭✭✭✭✭Are you guys kidding? Hiding behind the idea of identity, you kill this identity.
I do not even like the change of Streak (and Cleanse) because it ceases to be a unique mechanic for a couple of skills, and becomes a common practice. Thus, soon all abilities will have either a stamina morph (necromancer is dangerously close to it), or scaling from the largest stat (Flames of Oblivion, Streak, Cleanse).
This leads to the homogenization of classes. Just match the differences in gameplay between stamina/magicka sorcerers (completely different experience) and stamina/magicka necromancer (green/blue skin of a single class).
If you really think that stamina sorcerer lacks an identity, then maybe you just got tired of it and should play other classes? There is nothing wrong with admitting this. You have nine more archetypes, and the necromancer will come soon.
If you want to achieve a stamina sorcerer buff under the pretext of identity, then git gud I would advise you to direct the effort into a more productive course. For example, recalling that there are skills that should have been reworked long ago (Rebate at least, maybe some more).
Stamina sorcerer (based on ZOS decisions, not my thoughts) has always been a well-balanced class that relies on weapons and uses class abilities as a utility. And I really would not want this identity to be destroyed because of the desires of the vocal minority. Cheers.Everything is viable3 -
BRODY✭✭Are you guys kidding? Hiding behind the idea of identity, you kill this identity.
I do not even like the change of Streak (and Cleanse) because it ceases to be a unique mechanic for a couple of skills, and becomes a common practice. Thus, soon all abilities will have either a stamina morph (necromancer is dangerously close to it), or scaling from the largest stat (Flames of Oblivion, Streak, Cleanse).
This leads to the homogenization of classes. Just match the differences in gameplay between stamina/magicka sorcerers (completely different experience) and stamina/magicka necromancer (green/blue skin of a single class).
If you really think that stamina sorcerer lacks an identity, then maybe you just got tired of it and should play other classes? There is nothing wrong with admitting this. You have nine more archetypes, and the necromancer will come soon.
If you want to achieve a stamina sorcerer buff under the pretext of identity, then git gud I would advise you to direct the effort into a more productive course. For example, recalling that there are skills that should have been reworked long ago (Rebate at least, maybe some more).
Stamina sorcerer (based on ZOS decisions, not my thoughts) has always been a well-balanced class that relies on weapons and uses class abilities as a utility. And I really would not want this identity to be destroyed because of the desires of the vocal minority. Cheers.
Are you joking?? 3 skills in my panel: hurricane, surge and dark deal. Thats all, what we use in stamsorc. Where is 9 slots?? Oh yea, its have weapon and guild skills. Stamsorc its no class, this 3 skills in my panel.Stamsorc EU PC Dagerfall alliance - On3 -
Ipslor✭✭✭Are you guys kidding? Hiding behind the idea of identity, you kill this identity...
Well I cannot judge Stam sorcs specifically 'cause I play Mag sorc, but the statement is right. Homogenisation isn't what we all want. I think most fun is achieved when you can play one class but different playstyles; what's the fun when you use same skills on Stam and Mag characters? I have curse on Magsorc and enjoy it; when I feel bored with Mag playstyle i switch to my bearded&fat Stamsorc and enjoy Hurricane and shield&sword, and do noe feel a need for using Curse.
Do you really want to erase all differences between playstyles? Really guys, I think you don't.
1 -
Prutton✭✭✭Stamina sorcerer (based on ZOS decisions, not my thoughts) has always been a well-balanced class that relies on weapons and uses class abilities as a utility. And I really would not want this identity to be destroyed because of the desires of the vocal minority. Cheers.
Well balanced? Stamina sorcerer is like playing a stamina toon without class abilities and passives. They are amongst the lowest dps, together with stamina DK and magicka Warden. There is a reason why most non-magicka sorcerers (stamina, healer and tank) are rejected in end game trials. They are just weak.2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.
Well, Ican turn this argument around and say that you're only throwing out the trash and making mag and stam the same if you give them the exactly same pet spells - while not solving the real issue: standarized offensive moves for stam sorcs that every other stam build can use not only just as well, but also even better bc they can combine it with their own class dmg skills. Not to mention that playing a pet build without Curse is a no-go.
So sure, make arguments for stamina pets but then go all the way and throw curse in the mix as well.
A lot of players in this thread said this and I completely agree with them: both morphs of curse are being used, a lot. There are plenty of unused skills (e.g. Crystal Blast) that can be turned into some nice stamina ability.
As for the pets, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without curse, and on top of that it provides nice synergy. Changing Charged Storm Attronach into Air Attronach doing physical damage is actually the best idea I've seen so far.
Must be great to live in PvE only.
And also, "you" are willing to share pets - but you aren't willing to share what makes pet that strong. Seems like an half baked idea.
To not let this slide here I ask you: what good would it do to give stamsorcs pets like Clannfear? All that "Hurr durr, you're nitpicking" aside. Instead of being able to use Daedric Protection via 1 slot (e.g. only on front) now we have to always use two. Plus without curse you're gutting damage by then 40%. Doesn't sound like a fair deal. Despite that Clannfear isn't even DPS oriented, it's more like the tanking pet.
Changing Storm Atro is nice and welcome, but then again the 40% damage loss compared to magsorcs and it's already backbared. It's a plain numbers buff so to say. Good, I won't argue against that it doesn't solve the identity crisis, especially not in PvP.
What could solve those crisis? Actual active skills. There are only a few that presents themselves. The trash morph of frags, Curse and Fury. Now mind that we're cramped on barspace and lacking in passives. So whatever skill we should choose, it should make a difference in both.
Wraht - TBH I don't even know which morph you'd pass. But stamina executes aren't really rare and the storm calling passives aren't what we're in need of.
Frags - iconic, blast is underwhelming, obivous candidate. However, the passives it procs are neglectable for stam sorcs. The heal is too tiny and the mag crit is a) of no use for us and b) even in pve groups you'd prefer it procced from mag sorcs bc they also have that LL synergy.
So if we choose any of that we'd still have to run a dead skill on front while magsorcs get all the stuff anyway from either running pet, curse or ward on front. We're still in dire need of an effective way to get 20% stam regen from. Not much would change in that departement.
First of all, Frags, Curse, and Wrath are the core and iconic offensive abilities of mag sorcs. Giving them to stamSorcs is giving stamSorcs the best of two worlds (current stamina toolkit PLUS the core magicka toolkit). This just won't be balanced at all. In addition it would destroy magSorc identity completely, since the only difference to stam sorcs would be shields (and staves).
Second, you don't need curse for pets to work. Many magSorcs currently use Atro and twilight without that Daedric Prey (Pet buff curse) and are doing just fine. In addition, you could simply change how the pet damage scales with max stamina or weapon damage to adjust the damage upwards if necessary.
Third, turning the stamSorc into a warrior that uses a little bit of magic mostly to summon pets would give your identity more than it ever could give identity to a magSorc which is all about throwing spells around - and tbh, I don't see stamSorcs throwing around spells as either lore-friendly or marketable.
Fourth, Bound Armament perfectly fits in with this new identity and could made into something long lasting (e.g. 30 sec buff) that acutally gives you some benefits (e.g. additional pet damage, damage mitigation, speed, etc. etc. etc.). It could even replace Hurricane as it would be a much better fit thematically.
Fifth, the proposed changes would be relatively easy to implement as you'd just have to change the damage type done by the pets. Adjust Bound Armaments and Hurricane a bit. Boom! You basically have got a unique new class.
And as for your counter argument, I don't propose giving magSorcs and stamSorcs the same pet spells. I propose making pets primarily a stamSorc thing and focus the class on that. B/c that makes 10,000,000 times more sense than having stamSorcs throw around magical spells that cost stamina and it gives you 10,000,000 times more identity than just copying magSorcs core abilities and just have them cost stamina.
A stamSorc being a warrior that uses magic (magicka) to buff themselves (e.g. Bound Armaments) and to summon pets that then deal physical damage (with active abilities then costing stamina after the summoning) is a lot more interesting than a cheesy nonsensical class that flexes muscles to copy magSorcs and retains it stamina toolkit to increase its existing OPness in PvP even more.
Edited by Galarthor on April 17, 2019 11:33AM0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stam needs a buff, but some of these guys are right. We dont want stam morphs if every skill, cause then theres going to be no difference between stam and mag, and whats the point in even having the two if they do everything the same.2 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc.
There is really no need for stamina sorc class abilities from a balance perspective. And neither is there one from a lore perspective. It's a f***ing sorc. Sorcs use magic(ka). I know, I know, now you want to tell me about Battlemages. Those are hybrids that are essentially soldiers (stamina builds) that also utilize magic (magicka), and the entire "mage" component of the Battlemage is based off of magic and thus magicka!
Please be careful with lore comments.
Lore-wise, a (Stamina) Sorcerer is a (melee or bow) warrior who conjures daedra, weapons and armor before the fight, and then attacks, and mainly relies on enchanted items for some additional spell-like damage.
It´s actually much easier to justify than the many conjured weapons skills of a Templar, or Nightblade.
As I said in the post right above your's, Pets would be the best angle of tackling StamSorcs' craving for more class abilities.
1) they make sense from a lore perspective (see what you said)
2) they can be easily adjusted to fit their new purpose (turn magic damage into physical damage)
3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
4) they would allow stamSorcs some more identity they are calling for
5) this would be far easier and less disruptive than remodeling sorcs passives so that stamSorcs can go full-hybrid but still deal damage like any other stam build with their stam abilities.
Well, Ican turn this argument around and say that you're only throwing out the trash and making mag and stam the same if you give them the exactly same pet spells - while not solving the real issue: standarized offensive moves for stam sorcs that every other stam build can use not only just as well, but also even better bc they can combine it with their own class dmg skills. Not to mention that playing a pet build without Curse is a no-go.
So sure, make arguments for stamina pets but then go all the way and throw curse in the mix as well.
A lot of players in this thread said this and I completely agree with them: both morphs of curse are being used, a lot. There are plenty of unused skills (e.g. Crystal Blast) that can be turned into some nice stamina ability.
As for the pets, Greater Storm Attronach does more damage than Ballista on stamsorc even without curse, and on top of that it provides nice synergy. Changing Charged Storm Attronach into Air Attronach doing physical damage is actually the best idea I've seen so far.
Must be great to live in PvE only.
And also, "you" are willing to share pets - but you aren't willing to share what makes pet that strong. Seems like an half baked idea.
To not let this slide here I ask you: what good would it do to give stamsorcs pets like Clannfear? All that "Hurr durr, you're nitpicking" aside. Instead of being able to use Daedric Protection via 1 slot (e.g. only on front) now we have to always use two. Plus without curse you're gutting damage by then 40%. Doesn't sound like a fair deal. Despite that Clannfear isn't even DPS oriented, it's more like the tanking pet.
Changing Storm Atro is nice and welcome, but then again the 40% damage loss compared to magsorcs and it's already backbared. It's a plain numbers buff so to say. Good, I won't argue against that it doesn't solve the identity crisis, especially not in PvP.
What could solve those crisis? Actual active skills. There are only a few that presents themselves. The trash morph of frags, Curse and Fury. Now mind that we're cramped on barspace and lacking in passives. So whatever skill we should choose, it should make a difference in both.
Wraht - TBH I don't even know which morph you'd pass. But stamina executes aren't really rare and the storm calling passives aren't what we're in need of.
Frags - iconic, blast is underwhelming, obivous candidate. However, the passives it procs are neglectable for stam sorcs. The heal is too tiny and the mag crit is a) of no use for us and b) even in pve groups you'd prefer it procced from mag sorcs bc they also have that LL synergy.
So if we choose any of that we'd still have to run a dead skill on front while magsorcs get all the stuff anyway from either running pet, curse or ward on front. We're still in dire need of an effective way to get 20% stam regen from. Not much would change in that departement.
First of all, Frags, Curse, and Wrath are the core and iconic offensive abilities of mag sorcs. Giving them to stamSorcs is giving stamSorcs the best of two worlds (current stamina toolkit PLUS the core magicka toolkit). This just won't be balanced at all. In addition it would destroy magSorc identity completely, since the only difference to stam sorcs would be shields (and staves).
Second, you don't need curse for pets to work. Many magSorcs currently use Atro and twilight without that Daedric Prey (Pet buff curse) and are doing just fine. In addition, you could simply change how the pet damage scales with max stamina or weapon damage to adjust the damage upwards if necessary.
Third, turning the stamSorc into a warrior that uses a little bit of magic mostly to summon pets would give your identity more than it ever could give identity to a magSorc which is all about throwing spells around - and tbh, I don't see stamSorcs throwing around spells as either lore-friendly or marketable.
Fourth, Bound Armament perfectly fits in with this new identity and could made into something long lasting (e.g. 30 sec buff) that acutally gives you some benefits (e.g. additional pet damage, damage mitigation, speed, etc. etc. etc.). It could even replace Hurricane as it would be a much better fit thematically.
And as for your counter argument, I don't propose giving magSorcs and stamSorcs the same pet spells. I propose making pets primarily a stamSorc thing and focus the class on that. B/c that makes 10,000,000 times more sense than having stamSorcs throw around magical spells that cost stamina and it gives you 10,000,000 times more identity than just copying magSorcs core abilities and just have them cost stamina.
A stamSorc being a warrior that uses magic (magicka) to buff themselves (e.g. Bound Armaments) and to summon pets that then deal physical damage (with active abilities then costing stamina after the summoning) is a lot more interesting than a cheesy nonsensical class that flexes muscles to copy magSorcs and retains it stamina toolkit to increase its existing OPness in PvP even more.
Cmon man, i agree with some of your points. But i dont want to use pets, leave that to magsorc. Theyre not fun, besides without hardened ward they probably wont live long.2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »Stam needs a buff, but some of these guys are right. We dont want stam morphs if every skill, cause then theres going to be no difference between stam and mag, and whats the point in even having the two if they do everything the same.
But that's exactly what most stamSorcs are asking for. They want to core and most potent abilities of magSorcs as stam morphs. That is 1) poor cherry picking, 2) destorying the identity of magSorcs, 3) limiting the choices and build diversity available to magSorcs, and 4) nonsensical (as you said yourself).
So if it's not the sorc core abilities of
1) Fragments
2) Curse
3) Wrath
4) Streak
5) Ward
What should it be?
Dark Exchange? Oh wait ...
Crit Surge? Oh wait ...
Bound Armor? Oh wait ...
Lightning Form? Oh wait ...
So that leaves:
1) Pets
2) Mines
3) Encase
4) Rune Cage
5) Lightning Splash
Do you really need or want Encase or Rune Cage? Does it make sense to have those 2 cost stamina? No! Would they be of any use to stamSorcs if they cost magicka? Not really, since they don't provide a long-lasting effect like Crit Surge.
Lightning Splash? Useless in PvP. At the core of magSorc PvE damage, so not really something you are looking for or that should be taken away from magSorcs.
Mines could work. But I don't think you want to hunker down as the most mobile class in the game and a predominantly melee build.
So that leaves Pets! Like it or not. Those are the best, and quite frankly the only option you have to get some "identity" without butchering or simply copying magSorcs / cherry picking to get the best of two worlds.
1 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »Stam needs a buff, but some of these guys are right. We dont want stam morphs if every skill, cause then theres going to be no difference between stam and mag, and whats the point in even having the two if they do everything the same.
But that's exactly what most stamSorcs are asking for. They want to core and most potent abilities of magSorcs as stam morphs. That is 1) poor cherry picking, 2) destorying the identity of magSorcs, 3) limiting the choices and build diversity available to magSorcs, and 4) nonsensical (as you said yourself).
So if it's not the sorc core abilities of
1) Fragments
2) Curse
3) Wrath
4) Streak
5) Ward
What should it be?
Dark Exchange? Oh wait ...
Crit Surge? Oh wait ...
Bound Armor? Oh wait ...
Lightning Form? Oh wait ...
So that leaves:
1) Pets
2) Mines
3) Encase
4) Rune Cage
5) Lightning Splash
Do you really need or want Encase or Rune Cage? Does it make sense to have those 2 cost stamina? No! Would they be of any use to stamSorcs if they cost magicka? Not really, since they don't provide a long-lasting effect like Crit Surge.
Lightning Splash? Useless in PvP. At the core of magSorc PvE damage, so not really something you are looking for or that should be taken away from magSorcs.
Mines could work. But I don't think you want to hunker down as the most mobile class in the game and a predominantly melee build.
So that leaves Pets! Like it or not. Those are the best, and quite frankly the only option you have to get some "identity" without butchering or simply copying magSorcs / cherry picking to get the best of two worlds.
Mines could be decent tbh, almost like eternal hunt does now, it creates the gap for the escape. Or you could sit on them if you choose. I guess it would come down to how they reworked it. Pets shouldn't be forced, i turned my magsorc into a bank cause i dont like pets anymore, and you simply wont be as strong if you dont use them.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
First of all, Frags, Curse, and Wrath are the core and iconic offensive abilities of mag sorcs. Giving them to stamSorcs is giving stamSorcs the best of two worlds (current stamina toolkit PLUS the core magicka toolkit). This just won't be balanced at all. In addition it would destroy magSorc identity completely, since the only difference to stam sorcs would be shields (and staves).
Second, you don't need curse for pets to work. Many magSorcs currently use Atro and twilight without that Daedric Prey (Pet buff curse) and are doing just fine. In addition, you could simply change how the pet damage scales with max stamina or weapon damage to adjust the damage upwards if necessary.
Third, turning the stamSorc into a warrior that uses a little bit of magic mostly to summon pets would give your identity more than it ever could give identity to a magSorc which is all about throwing spells around - and tbh, I don't see stamSorcs throwing around spells as either lore-friendly or marketable.
Fourth, Bound Armament perfectly fits in with this new identity and could made into something long lasting (e.g. 30 sec buff) that acutally gives you some benefits (e.g. additional pet damage, damage mitigation, speed, etc. etc. etc.). It could even replace Hurricane as it would be a much better fit thematically.
Fifth, the proposed changes would be relatively easy to implement as you'd just have to change the damage type done by the pets. Adjust Bound Armaments and Hurricane a bit. Boom! You basically have got a unique new class.
And as for your counter argument, I don't propose giving magSorcs and stamSorcs the same pet spells. I propose making pets primarily a stamSorc thing and focus the class on that. B/c that makes 10,000,000 times more sense than having stamSorcs throw around magical spells that cost stamina and it gives you 10,000,000 times more identity than just copying magSorcs core abilities and just have them cost stamina.
A stamSorc being a warrior that uses magic (magicka) to buff themselves (e.g. Bound Armaments) and to summon pets that then deal physical damage (with active abilities then costing stamina after the summoning) is a lot more interesting than a cheesy nonsensical class that flexes muscles to copy magSorcs and retains it stamina toolkit to increase its existing OPness in PvP even more.
Can you stop with this "best of both world" nonsense"? It makes you look like a self centric. Do you ramble about stamblades using cloak and many skills that magblades have access to too? Do you complain about Race against Time cutting deep into mobility terrain while a short while ago the devs stated that "good mobility is something you should heavily invest in to archieve" and always was one of the main selling points of going stam over magicka? Do you complain about the rise of ranged stam dps builds while it should be magicka that has the ranged edge? I don't think so.
Then on to the pet dilemma. With NBs now effectively having stam scaling pets, wardens and necromancers too, I doubt that it would give them much uniqueness. It really seems to me like the reason why you want to take pets (completely ?) away from magsorcs and change them to a "stam sorc thing" is because you don't like them on your magsorc. Oh, right:3) they are not really taking away anything from magSorcs, as most magSorcs don't want to run pets but rather throw spells
Talking about nitpicking and taking away uniqueness, right? Like I mentioned so many times before, a change must be worth it, if you just dump on us what the magsorc overlords consider "trash", why even having this discussion at all?
Also don't you think it's far too harsh to rip away THE magSorc thing completely? We're asking about a single morph of any skill and maybe better suiting passives (for all, not just petSorcs) not about a complete inside-out-turning.
"and tbh, I don't see stamSorcs throwing around spells as either lore-friendly or marketable."
Well, that's on you. But that's exactly what every other class does as well. That's exactly what was possible in every other TES game - and quit funnily, it's what always made it so much more enjoyable than games with strict archtypes that deemed you to be either a pure spellslinger or a full on weapons-only warrior. There are even people on this forum asking for a complete removal of the class boundaries or for bringing back soft caps so that the hybrid approach becomes viable again. So I don't see how that isn't lore-friendly or marketable.
You know what isn't marketable at all? A class without an archtype. Hurricane and an "wrong dmg type" ultimate, that is what you have to show for as a stam sorc in PvE. Try selling that *** to anyone who played a stamblade, magsorc, necromancer etc.
"Fourth, Bound Armament perfectly fits in with this new identity and could made into something long lasting (e.g. 30 sec buff) that acutally gives you some benefits (e.g. additional pet damage, damage mitigation, speed, etc. etc. etc.). It could even replace Hurricane as it would be a much better fit thematically."
You've got to be trolling. Replacing Hurricane, the tiny bit of class identity for a buff? Man, now at least you've shown what you're really up to. That would make the "class" even more boring. I can't even comprehend how you can't see that.
Tl;dR:
What this "class uniqueness" should be about isn't magSORC vs stamSORC but it should be viewed as what sets any SORC apart from an NB, DK etc.
But instead what you're saying is: take pets away form mag and take Hurricane away from stam. So thanks for your time and your input, but I think we have insurmountable differences on that topic.2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Stam needs a buff, but some of these guys are right. We dont want stam morphs if every skill, cause then theres going to be no difference between stam and mag, and whats the point in even having the two if they do everything the same.
But that's exactly what most stamSorcs are asking for. They want to core and most potent abilities of magSorcs as stam morphs. That is 1) poor cherry picking, 2) destorying the identity of magSorcs, 3) limiting the choices and build diversity available to magSorcs, and 4) nonsensical (as you said yourself).
So if it's not the sorc core abilities of
1) Fragments
2) Curse
3) Wrath
4) Streak
5) Ward
What should it be?
Dark Exchange? Oh wait ...
Crit Surge? Oh wait ...
Bound Armor? Oh wait ...
Lightning Form? Oh wait ...
So that leaves:
1) Pets
2) Mines
3) Encase
4) Rune Cage
5) Lightning Splash
Do you really need or want Encase or Rune Cage? Does it make sense to have those 2 cost stamina? No! Would they be of any use to stamSorcs if they cost magicka? Not really, since they don't provide a long-lasting effect like Crit Surge.
Lightning Splash? Useless in PvP. At the core of magSorc PvE damage, so not really something you are looking for or that should be taken away from magSorcs.
Mines could work. But I don't think you want to hunker down as the most mobile class in the game and a predominantly melee build.
So that leaves Pets! Like it or not. Those are the best, and quite frankly the only option you have to get some "identity" without butchering or simply copying magSorcs / cherry picking to get the best of two worlds.
Mines could be decent tbh, almost like eternal hunt does now, it creates the gap for the escape. Or you could sit on them if you choose. I guess it would come down to how they reworked it. Pets shouldn't be forced, i turned my magsorc into a bank cause i dont like pets anymore, and you simply wont be as strong if you dont use them.
Agreed. But there is simply not much room here.
As for mines as an escaping tool, given that stamSorcs got Streak, Hurricane, and Sprint, Mines might be a little bit over the top. But They could be interesting. But will never give you identity (which is what all stamSorcs are craving for) like a magic-enhanced warrior with pets would do.0 -
TheValar85✭✭✭✭✭Realy? :d stam sorc need buufs
have you seen a strom stam builds recently guys? they are strong af, they dont need buffs at all. Nor curse morphs. GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERPGM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP GuildGM Of The Guardians Of MiddleEarthMy Smiling Emperor Profile Picture: https://ibb.co/bsOM6n1 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheValar85 wrote: »Realy? :d stam sorc need buufs have you seen a strom stam builds recently guys? they are strong af, they dont need buffs at all. Nor curse morphs.
Show me a strong 1vX where a stamsorc can get kills in quick succession, not using DW spin2win like a scrub. Ill wait..0