Faction Lock? Really? Again?

ShenaniganSquad · April 2019

Elong wrote: »

Here's a solution to make Faction Loyalty actually worth something on a computer game.

Actually reward it.

Remember when we used to get Master Weapons for being in the top 2% ? Bring it back. Bring back a reason to actually stay playing for your faction for 30 days.

I will tell you now, the main reason this all started is because there was simply no reward for staying on one toon longer than getting your T3 reward. There still isn't. The gold drops from the top 2% are RNG based, and quite frankly, awful.

I had another idea, instead of largely outdated Master Weapons, make a new set of weapons specific to PVP, with a 2 pc bonus on them that has "Adds 10% Damage to other players". That number could be altered, that's not important, I'm not a dev, but it's a reason to actually be in the campaign for it's duration. You could call them "Daggerfall's Greatsword" or "The Ebonheart Ice Staff" to promote the idea that you earned it for your faction.

The reason computer games are played, is to have fun, or to complete, or to compete. When a game doesn't offer those factors, people look for their own completion, competition and fun. Add content ZOS, add a reason to be loyal, not a lock and a barrier.

totally agree... the campaign rewards are total s##t

Ranger209 · April 2019

ellahellabella wrote: »

show previous quotes

zyk wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

This is untrue. While none of us can provide a breakdown of what kind of player does what, when, what those players generally have in common is a desire for easy AP.

That's why everyone notes that regardless of which faction is most effective at pushing the map, it will be the most populous faction of that time period. The extra AD come from EP and DC. They're not loyal to anyone.

You have a very distorted view of players who enjoy AvA objective gameplay.

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I think you skimmed over an informative comment.

I think you skimmed over the map that I showed from 4 hours later where AD had all 6 scrolls. The end result shows that being able to swap factions does not prevent this. Nothing will prevent this, faction locking will not prevent this, faction swapping will not prevent this. This will happen in either case because people herd up. This can be compensated for in a scoring system that makes population base adjustments, and uses scoring modifiers based on population. More than a few such scoring systems have been discussed in the past. The ability to faction swap or to be faction locked has minimum impact on what these maps show.

For people that want good fights in a faction locked campaign during Oceanic, just don't go for AD. They will be locked for the duration to AD and you will always be guaranteed good fights while being outnumbered as DC or EP.

edit: Or perhaps those guilds that flock together at that time frame will get bored if they are on any longer than what it takes to paint the map and actually split to different factions.

Elong · April 2019

Ranger209 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ellahellabella wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

This is untrue. While none of us can provide a breakdown of what kind of player does what, when, what those players generally have in common is a desire for easy AP.

That's why everyone notes that regardless of which faction is most effective at pushing the map, it will be the most populous faction of that time period. The extra AD come from EP and DC. They're not loyal to anyone.

You have a very distorted view of players who enjoy AvA objective gameplay.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I think you skimmed over an informative comment.

I think you skimmed over the map that I showed from 4 hours later where AD had all 6 scrolls. The end result shows that being able to swap factions does not prevent this. Nothing will prevent this, faction locking will not prevent this, faction swapping will not prevent this. This will happen in either case because people herd up. This can be compensated for in a scoring system that makes population base adjustments, and uses scoring modifiers based on population. More than a few such scoring systems have been discussed in the past. The ability to faction swap or to be faction locked has minimum impact on what these maps show.

For people that want good fights in a faction locked campaign during Oceanic, just don't go for AD. They will be locked for the duration to AD and you will always be guaranteed good fights while being outnumbered as DC or EP.

edit: Or perhaps those guilds that flock together at that time frame will get bored if they are on any longer than what it takes to paint the map and actually split to different factions.

Hasn't happened so far, and some of the AD players won't come and play on DC because the Faction RPers are so toxic to them.

ellahellabella · April 2019

Elong wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ranger209 wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

This is untrue. While none of us can provide a breakdown of what kind of player does what, when, what those players generally have in common is a desire for easy AP.

That's why everyone notes that regardless of which faction is most effective at pushing the map, it will be the most populous faction of that time period. The extra AD come from EP and DC. They're not loyal to anyone.

You have a very distorted view of players who enjoy AvA objective gameplay.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I think you skimmed over an informative comment.

I think you skimmed over the map that I showed from 4 hours later where AD had all 6 scrolls. The end result shows that being able to swap factions does not prevent this. Nothing will prevent this, faction locking will not prevent this, faction swapping will not prevent this. This will happen in either case because people herd up. This can be compensated for in a scoring system that makes population base adjustments, and uses scoring modifiers based on population. More than a few such scoring systems have been discussed in the past. The ability to faction swap or to be faction locked has minimum impact on what these maps show.

For people that want good fights in a faction locked campaign during Oceanic, just don't go for AD. They will be locked for the duration to AD and you will always be guaranteed good fights while being outnumbered as DC or EP.

edit: Or perhaps those guilds that flock together at that time frame will get bored if they are on any longer than what it takes to paint the map and actually split to different factions.

Hasn't happened so far, and some of the AD players won't come and play on DC because the Faction RPers are so toxic to them.

I remember one DC dude was so heavy on the rp that he was complaining about ep and ad bretons. They were breaking his immersionz.

Tonnopesce · April 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.
I've played some times as an AD in the morning (to do a little of group play since DC guilds are dead) and there is at least 4 full raids facerolling every small group they encountered .
You faction swap to avoid this behaviour and to do pvp wich is good, we are here for that.

Honestly go play some BG they are far more balanced than open world Cyro and since you don't care about the map/cyro status it seems that BG are the right place for you, adapt your build to no CP and move on, CP pvp is less fun anyways and i'm telling this from the height of my 900 cp (i kinda worked hard to get them ).

Now if we are talking about numbers... well since the new patch will drop and with two more campaigns coming (IC cp and no cp) there will not be enought people to fill even vivec , so good luck finding fights (faction lock is not going to change this statement).

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.
We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

Tekillya · April 2019

Well guess you cant switch to ep fractin when ap is on. or switch to dc when their raid is on, or ad for that matter. sorry for your loss farming and selling that ap.

Tekillya · April 2019

that is the real reason your crying about it!

ellahellabella · April 2019

Tonnopesce wrote: »

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.
I've played some times as an AD in the morning (to do a little of group play since DC guilds are dead) and there is at least 4 full raids facerolling every small group they encountered .
You faction swap to avoid this behaviour and to do pvp wich is good, we are here for that.

Honestly go play some BG they are far more balanced than open world Cyro and since you don't care about the map/cyro status it seems that BG are the right place for you, adapt your build to no CP and move on, CP pvp is less fun anyways and i'm telling this from the height of my 900 cp (i kinda worked hard to get them ).

Now if we are talking about numbers... well since the new patch will drop and with two more campaigns coming (IC cp and no cp) there will not be enought people to fill even vivec , so good luck finding fights (faction lock is not going to change this statement).

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.
We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

If Shor is a tumbleweed roller in OC prime, what makes you think battlegrounds is such a party?

ellahellabella · April 2019

Tekillya wrote: »

that is the real reason your crying about it!

AP are on at 1-2pm where I live dude. I'm out workinz to pay for the price of life.

IxSTALKERxI · April 2019

You should all be happy that you are being locked on the outnumbered faction, it's not like any of you will be stuck playing on AD.

Torbschka · April 2019

Am I allowed to choose the alliance I wanna Play for every 30 days?

That would solve all problems...

Tonnopesce · April 2019

ellahellabella wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.
I've played some times as an AD in the morning (to do a little of group play since DC guilds are dead) and there is at least 4 full raids facerolling every small group they encountered .
You faction swap to avoid this behaviour and to do pvp wich is good, we are here for that.

Honestly go play some BG they are far more balanced than open world Cyro and since you don't care about the map/cyro status it seems that BG are the right place for you, adapt your build to no CP and move on, CP pvp is less fun anyways and i'm telling this from the height of my 900 cp (i kinda worked hard to get them ).

Now if we are talking about numbers... well since the new patch will drop and with two more campaigns coming (IC cp and no cp) there will not be enought people to fill even vivec , so good luck finding fights (faction lock is not going to change this statement).

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.
We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

If Shor is a tumbleweed roller in OC prime, what makes you think battlegrounds is such a party?

Since i work more in the evening, from six months on, i mainly play in the morning and usually in this time Cyro is flooded by AD pvdoor troups and the other campaigns are pretty dead too, so i feel you mr oceanic players i kinda have the same issue that's why i suggest BG as a solution, is working for me.
I have 5 "main" DC toons and two low level AD and EP when i see the Cyro madness i just play with the big ones with the no cp gear and a little with the two low levels there is a lot of BG going on between level 50 and level 10-50 usually i wait for around 2 minutes to get into a match and even if BG are full of procs, unkillable tanks and one button snipers i still can pvp wich is nice.

ErMurazor · April 2019

I see its many pol that hop campaigns in this thread, the salt is real. Too bad for you that its comming to an end. Im so done with ppl playing the campaign on different sides. Good call ZoS

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

Tonnopesce wrote: »

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.
I've played some times as an AD in the morning (to do a little of group play since DC guilds are dead) and there is at least 4 full raids facerolling every small group they encountered .
You faction swap to avoid this behaviour and to do pvp wich is good, we are here for that.

Honestly go play some BG they are far more balanced than open world Cyro and since you don't care about the map/cyro status it seems that BG are the right place for you, adapt your build to no CP and move on, CP pvp is less fun anyways and i'm telling this from the height of my 900 cp (i kinda worked hard to get them ).

Now if we are talking about numbers... well since the new patch will drop and with two more campaigns coming (IC cp and no cp) there will not be enought people to fill even vivec , so good luck finding fights (faction lock is not going to change this statement).

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.
We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

k

imma go play some bgs i guess, wait in 45 min oceanic queues for those

thanks for insight.

Tonnopesce · April 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.
I've played some times as an AD in the morning (to do a little of group play since DC guilds are dead) and there is at least 4 full raids facerolling every small group they encountered .
You faction swap to avoid this behaviour and to do pvp wich is good, we are here for that.

Honestly go play some BG they are far more balanced than open world Cyro and since you don't care about the map/cyro status it seems that BG are the right place for you, adapt your build to no CP and move on, CP pvp is less fun anyways and i'm telling this from the height of my 900 cp (i kinda worked hard to get them ).

Now if we are talking about numbers... well since the new patch will drop and with two more campaigns coming (IC cp and no cp) there will not be enought people to fill even vivec , so good luck finding fights (faction lock is not going to change this statement).

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.
We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

k

imma go play some bgs i guess, wait in 45 min oceanic queues for those

thanks for insight.

k

have fun.

ellahellabella · April 2019

ErMurazor wrote: »

I see its many pol that hop campaigns in this thread, the salt is real. Too bad for you that its comming to an end. Im so done with ppl playing the campaign on different sides. Good call ZoS

We don't hop campaigns tho. Only one campaign is active in OC hour. Read the thread and comments next time plz.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · April 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.
I've played some times as an AD in the morning (to do a little of group play since DC guilds are dead) and there is at least 4 full raids facerolling every small group they encountered .
You faction swap to avoid this behaviour and to do pvp wich is good, we are here for that.

Honestly go play some BG they are far more balanced than open world Cyro and since you don't care about the map/cyro status it seems that BG are the right place for you, adapt your build to no CP and move on, CP pvp is less fun anyways and i'm telling this from the height of my 900 cp (i kinda worked hard to get them ).

Now if we are talking about numbers... well since the new patch will drop and with two more campaigns coming (IC cp and no cp) there will not be enought people to fill even vivec , so good luck finding fights (faction lock is not going to change this statement).

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.
We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

k

imma go play some bgs i guess, wait in 45 min oceanic queues for those

thanks for insight.

I raise you

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

I know this is not what anyone was looking for, but it is what it is and if you’re going to play Cyrodiil next update, then I highly suggest you channel your frustrations into useful suggestions

InvictusApollo · April 2019

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.

Assuming that population capacity is 150 players, then 30-60 people are 20%-40% substracted from one side and added to the other. Furthermore players who have multiple characters in multiple alliances usually are at least decent or even very good at pvp. This means that when they change side, the zerg are losing most of their Hunter Killers (an elite zerg Hydralisk from Starcraft) and suddenly have to face Protoss Zealots whose morale is bolstered by one phrase: "Carrier has arrived".

Tonnopesce wrote: »

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.

I see no reason for people to enter pvp just because a faction lock has been put in place. New playeers don't even know about faction hopping.

Tonnopesce wrote: »

We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

Thanks for reminding me to finish my bomblade.

Dutchessx · April 2019

All I see in these posts are about Vivec... why is this just a problem about Vivec? At least if you are a player that enjoys playing on cp enabled servers you have a choice you can go to Shor. If you are a player that prefers no-cp you are short on luck. If your faction has complete control of the map & there is 1 bar pop of the other factions because people roll the map before prime time or on the weekends, right now you can join another faction and at least get some pvp in and help out. However, once the faction lock goes into place you might as well log out & go play another game because there isn’t any where else to go. I have always considered myself an EP main because that is where I made my first characters. What I have learned from playing other factions is that all factions do crazy stuff like nightcaping, gate camping, or camping of tri-keeps with the purpose of not allowing people to play the game until they have an overwhelming force to take stuff back. This is usually because if 1 or 2 people take a resource as soon as it flags everyone who wants to play comes because “hey, it’s a fight” and the people get discouraged and say man “I will just come back later maybe”. Are there some bad apples in the barrel? Eh... probably, but I bet there are fewer of those than there are of the others. The people who generally switch factions do so to help out either because they like playing for the underdog, they want to play the game themselves and find some fights, or they want to help out so that they can eventually switch back to their mains and have some fun. I forgot to add with friends as well, that is why I have AD to be honest. I have a sorcerer and a Templar on all 3 factions. When I had Darkest Requiem I use to encourage the people in my guild to do that so there was “options”, I never mandated it. Why? For the very reasons I just wrote about. So do I care about the faction I am playing on? Yes! Do I care about the faction my mains are on? Yes! Do I just want to play the game as ZOS described it in One Tamerial? Yes!
And please note while I understand Vivec has the majority of the players, don’t forget at least Vivec players have options, Sotha players don’t. And I don’t know what the stats look like but I am sure the people at ZOS does. Has the 7 day no cp campaign ever been as successful as the 30 day and are we going to get one? @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom?

Minno · April 2019

the AP abuse grind reasoning was funny because if everyone was doing it, we wouldn't have just one campagin with 100 stacked que's not to mention an overflow of trans resto staffs/dawn trait gems lol.

This will be pumping pop into shor/IC, despite dev reasoning saying otherwise.

Iarao · April 2019

InvictusApollo wrote: »

When I first saw the faction lock threads I thought to myself: "don't worry - this idea is so bad that it will never be implemented".
And now ZOS is actually going to put faction lock? Again? It didn't work the first time!

7. Decreasing overall monthly transmute crystals yield from tier one rewards since not all characters will be able to get them.

DING DING DING!

dtsharples · April 2019

They should remove all AP gains for any campaign that you guest in.
You only get AP + Rewards for your home campaigns.

This way, if you want to steamroll an empty map at ridiculous AM, feel free....But that's your AP made for the day.
Want to swap sides for some actual PVP? or to take back the map? Tough! No AP for you

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.
I've played some times as an AD in the morning (to do a little of group play since DC guilds are dead) and there is at least 4 full raids facerolling every small group they encountered .
You faction swap to avoid this behaviour and to do pvp wich is good, we are here for that.

Honestly go play some BG they are far more balanced than open world Cyro and since you don't care about the map/cyro status it seems that BG are the right place for you, adapt your build to no CP and move on, CP pvp is less fun anyways and i'm telling this from the height of my 900 cp (i kinda worked hard to get them ).

Now if we are talking about numbers... well since the new patch will drop and with two more campaigns coming (IC cp and no cp) there will not be enought people to fill even vivec , so good luck finding fights (faction lock is not going to change this statement).

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.
We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

k

imma go play some bgs i guess, wait in 45 min oceanic queues for those

thanks for insight.

I raise you
show previous quotes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

I know this is not what anyone was looking for, but it is what it is and if you’re going to play Cyrodiil next update, then I highly suggest you channel your frustrations into useful suggestions

:shrug:

wot can we do

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

dtsharples wrote: »

They should remove all AP gains for any campaign that you guest in.
You only get AP + Rewards for your home campaigns.

This way, if you want to steamroll an empty map at ridiculous AM, feel free....But that's your AP made for the day.
Want to swap sides for some actual PVP? or to take back the map? Tough! No AP for you

I'm okay with that, I just don't want to be stuck on an alliance rolling the map.On the server I play on my main faction isn't at the moment, but they have several times in the past. It literally takes one guild forming or moving over in oceanic to turn the map any other color.

Dutchessx · April 2019

dtsharples wrote: »

They should remove all AP gains for any campaign that you guest in.
You only get AP + Rewards for your home campaigns.

This way, if you want to steamroll an empty map at ridiculous AM, feel free....But that's your AP made for the day.
Want to swap sides for some actual PVP? or to take back the map? Tough! No AP for you

Ouch! Want a little salt to go with that bitter flavor there or is it to much already? I jest of course.

I can agree with no end of campaign rewards but you take away AP gains you take away the ability of a pvp’er to make gold and buy gear. The factions as a whole can’t police it self enough to make sure they don’t paint the map one color enough as it is.

What you suggest would kill pvp in this game.

Rikumaru · April 2019

Shor should be the only locked campaign, these changes are just gonna limit who I can actually play with. Did ZOS forget the very reason they removed faction locks in the first place?

Tonnopesce · April 2019

InvictusApollo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I'm quite shure people who faction swap don't make any difference on the map... even if 30-60 ppl swap factions they cannot do anything against the zerg brute force.

Assuming that population capacity is 150 players, then 30-60 people are 20%-40% substracted from one side and added to the other. Furthermore players who have multiple characters in multiple alliances usually are at least decent or even very good at pvp. This means that when they change side, the zerg are losing most of their Hunter Killers (an elite zerg Hydralisk from Starcraft) and suddenly have to face Protoss Zealots whose morale is bolstered by one phrase: "Carrier has arrived".

show previous quotes

Tonnopesce wrote: »

But maybe this system will bring more people into Cyro and everything will drastically change.

I see no reason for people to enter pvp just because a faction lock has been put in place. New playeers don't even know about faction hopping.

show previous quotes

Tonnopesce wrote: »

We will see in the third week of the anniversary how many ppl good rewards can bring into Cyro, if you remember when Cyro/IC events drop ton of fresh meat suddendly go in pvp, i keep the bomblade build and the Imperial phisique sorcerer build only for these events.

Thanks for reminding me to finish my bomblade.

I did not understand any of the reference that you have wrote in the first sentence...Protoss Zealots what is this? now im confused.

Anyway assuming that you are right and only the git gud players swap faction, they change to have some fights and smashing the face against a wall of players is not optimal i suppose.
When i see players who play even in other factions usually i avoid them because they are farming noobs at resources, or they form little unkillable zergballs (so called group play) and faceroll pugs... Not really helpful for the campaign.

You are welcome for the bomblade is gonna be awesome

Diundriel · April 2019

Rikumaru wrote: »

Shor should be the only locked campaign, these changes are just gonna limit who I can actually play with. Did ZOS forget the very reason they removed faction locks in the first place?

yea shor is empty atm anyway they could bring it back to life for the ones who want to be 100% loyal for their faction and dont primarily have a Focus on good fights and playing with Friends/guildies.

Sandman929 · April 2019

Diundriel wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rikumaru wrote: »

Shor should be the only locked campaign, these changes are just gonna limit who I can actually play with. Did ZOS forget the very reason they removed faction locks in the first place?

yea shor is empty atm anyway they could bring it back to life for the ones who want to be 100% loyal for their faction and dont primarily have a Focus on good fights and playing with Friends/guildies.

Couldn't those who don't want faction locks do the same for Shor?

kpittsniperb14_ESO · April 2019

Elong wrote: »

Here's a solution to make Faction Loyalty actually worth something on a computer game.

Actually reward it.

Remember when we used to get Master Weapons for being in the top 2% ? Bring it back. Bring back a reason to actually stay playing for your faction for 30 days.

I will tell you now, the main reason this all started is because there was simply no reward for staying on one toon longer than getting your T3 reward. There still isn't. The gold drops from the top 2% are RNG based, and quite frankly, awful.

I had another idea, instead of largely outdated Master Weapons, make a new set of weapons specific to PVP, with a 2 pc bonus on them that has "Adds 10% Damage to other players". That number could be altered, that's not important, I'm not a dev, but it's a reason to actually be in the campaign for it's duration. You could call them "Daggerfall's Greatsword" or "The Ebonheart Ice Staff" to promote the idea that you earned it for your faction.

The reason computer games are played, is to have fun, or to complete, or to compete. When a game doesn't offer those factors, people look for their own completion, competition and fun. Add content ZOS, add a reason to be loyal, not a lock and a barrier.

Now that's just crazy talk, you mean to tell me that the developers should actually do something to incentivize faction loyalty as opposed to a band aid slap on fix that will potentially have massive unintended consequences and fracture and already small community even further. Think of all the mounts that wouldn't get reskinned with the kind of development resources you're talking here. Poppycock I say.