Faction Lock? Really? Again?

Elong

Yet to read any good counter argument to @DisgracefulMind 's posts, reading crap like buy more accounts, go away and hide on the server nobody plays on, it's your fault you live in Oceania and you're just doing it to farm ap are some of the worst posts I've ever read on here. So much for play as you want. I stand by my view that Faction RPers are the most toxic players in this game.

Sandman929

Elong wrote: »

Yet to read any good counter argument to @DisgracefulMind 's posts, reading crap like buy more accounts, go away and hide on the server nobody plays on, it's your fault you live in Oceania and you're just doing it to farm ap are some of the worst posts I've ever read on here. So much for play as you want. I stand by my view that Faction RPers are the most toxic players in this game.

The only counter I could think of is to your point of "the server nobody plays on", we might not have all the details of the changes that are coming. Right now, Shor on your platform, might not have the population you'd like at the times you play, but that could change. We're all looking at the change we've heard about in isolation and applying it to the game as it currently is to draw conclusions from that.
I want a faction locked campaign. I don't really want it at the expense of others, but that seems to be how we're going to get it if there's only one 30 day option and people who play multiple factions would prefer the 30 day.

Elong

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Yet to read any good counter argument to @DisgracefulMind 's posts, reading crap like buy more accounts, go away and hide on the server nobody plays on, it's your fault you live in Oceania and you're just doing it to farm ap are some of the worst posts I've ever read on here. So much for play as you want. I stand by my view that Faction RPers are the most toxic players in this game.

The only counter I could think of is to your point of "the server nobody plays on", we might not have all the details of the changes that are coming. Right now, Shor on your platform, might not have the population you'd like at the times you play, but that could change. We're all looking at the change we've heard about in isolation and applying it to the game as it currently is to draw conclusions from that.
I want a faction locked campaign. I don't really want it at the expense of others, but that seems to be how we're going to get it if there's only one 30 day option and people who play multiple factions would prefer the 30 day.

I'm okay with a faction lock. It should be Shor, and it should be allowed to be guested, with no Campaign Rewards. 99% of us who play this game don't do it for the rewards anymore. Transmute stones are too easy to get.

Some of us really just want to play this damn game with their friends and not be locked out of it. I think people are missing the concept of what a game actually is supposed to be.

Dutchessx

InvictusApollo wrote: »

When I first saw the faction lock threads I thought to myself: "don't worry - this idea is so bad that it will never be implemented".
And now ZOS is actually going to put faction lock? Again? It didn't work the first time!

Have faction lock advocates really ignored the obvious problems that this is going to introduce?

Faction lock will effectively delete almost two thirds of all pvp characters for everyone who prefers noCP! How?
There is going to be only one noCP campaign! This means that only one third of many peoples characters will be able to play in pvp.
I for example have 3 chars in AD, 3 in DC and 2 in EP. And I love playing them all in noCP campaign.

Do I hop between campaigns to be on the winning side?
No! Why would I? I play for fun - not some fleeting victory that I had no inluence on because of so many players involved.

Do I hop between campaings to troll, spy or grief?
No! Why would I? It's boring.

I have created characters on every alliance for two reasons:
1. Experience the three banners war from every side.
2. Play with all of my friends who happen to have only one or two chars that are pvp ready.

With the faction lock I will be able to play with only 3 of my characters every month. CP is far too laggy for me to be even playable so if I were forced to play it, I would just turn off ESO and go play some other game (Overwatch for example). Even if I had better ping and actually could play CP, then still two or three of my characters would be effectively deleted from Cyrodill pvp.

And now the faction lock will have the following negative effects on me and every other player like me:
2. Completely prevent us from playing around two thirds of our characters if we prefer the noCP or CP campaign only.
3. Completely prevent us from playing around one third of our characters if we do not have preference on CP.
4. Prevent us from playing with many of our friends who happen to have pvp ready characters in other alliances.
5. Increase queue time on CP campaings since many players from noCP campaings will go there to play some of their characters that are locked our from noCP campaign.
6. Increase hatred between players of different alliances since faction lock will enforce alliance identity.
7. Decreasing overall monthly transmute crystals yield from tier one rewards since not all characters will be able to get them.
8. Making Cyrodill literally unplayable for anyone who wants some challenge and finds himself in a faction that is dominating.
9. Almost completely preventing people from playing in their favourite campaing if it is at maximum population capacity. Now we can just queue on another character. With faction lock we will either have to wait an hour to play or leave the game completely and play sth else.
10. Making some factions have significant numbers advantage untill the end of campaing. If for some reason one faction happens to have significantly less people than the others then that faction will be in constant disadvantage untill the end of the campaing.
11. Guilds will be literally able to choose the winning side just by grouping up to all queue on one campaing and on the same side. Some guilds care only about APs and they will gladly work with other like minded guilds to choose the dominant alliance and farm as many AP and rewards as possible.

All of these problems and probably even more that I haven't thought of and for what?
To reduce trolling?
Trolls troll because they like to troll. Those that want to troll will still do it without even batting an eye on their impact on the alliance end score. They will just troll in their home campaigns.

To reduce spying?
People who do not care about the score will still spy for their friends.

PvP for many people is the endgame - the thing they do when they have finished every single trial and dungeons so many times that they are too bored to play them.
With faction lock many people will stop playing pvp. And that means less eso+ subscriptions -> lower playerbase -> less money for game content, development and improvement.

And we can't solve all these issues just by introducing more campaings. The more campaings there are the greater chance that some of them will be dead.

Well said!

Sandman929

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Yet to read any good counter argument to @DisgracefulMind 's posts, reading crap like buy more accounts, go away and hide on the server nobody plays on, it's your fault you live in Oceania and you're just doing it to farm ap are some of the worst posts I've ever read on here. So much for play as you want. I stand by my view that Faction RPers are the most toxic players in this game.

The only counter I could think of is to your point of "the server nobody plays on", we might not have all the details of the changes that are coming. Right now, Shor on your platform, might not have the population you'd like at the times you play, but that could change. We're all looking at the change we've heard about in isolation and applying it to the game as it currently is to draw conclusions from that.
I want a faction locked campaign. I don't really want it at the expense of others, but that seems to be how we're going to get it if there's only one 30 day option and people who play multiple factions would prefer the 30 day.

I'm okay with a faction lock. It should be Shor, and it should be allowed to be guested, with no Campaign Rewards. 99% of us who play this game don't do it for the rewards anymore. Transmute stones are too easy to get.

Some of us really just want to play this damn game with their friends and not be locked out of it. I think people are missing the concept of what a game actually is supposed to be.

Or the developer is continuing to develop what the game is supposed to be. Personally, I would rather have seen a new locked 30 day alongside the open 30 and 7 day campaigns. Just to see which is preferred by the players. I don't really care about faction locks, I made the choice to play for one faction for myself only, not everyone. But it would be interesting to see if the player base prefers (even imposed) faction loyalty.

Elong

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Yet to read any good counter argument to @DisgracefulMind 's posts, reading crap like buy more accounts, go away and hide on the server nobody plays on, it's your fault you live in Oceania and you're just doing it to farm ap are some of the worst posts I've ever read on here. So much for play as you want. I stand by my view that Faction RPers are the most toxic players in this game.

The only counter I could think of is to your point of "the server nobody plays on", we might not have all the details of the changes that are coming. Right now, Shor on your platform, might not have the population you'd like at the times you play, but that could change. We're all looking at the change we've heard about in isolation and applying it to the game as it currently is to draw conclusions from that.
I want a faction locked campaign. I don't really want it at the expense of others, but that seems to be how we're going to get it if there's only one 30 day option and people who play multiple factions would prefer the 30 day.

I'm okay with a faction lock. It should be Shor, and it should be allowed to be guested, with no Campaign Rewards. 99% of us who play this game don't do it for the rewards anymore. Transmute stones are too easy to get.

Some of us really just want to play this damn game with their friends and not be locked out of it. I think people are missing the concept of what a game actually is supposed to be.

Or the developer is continuing to develop what the game is supposed to be. Personally, I would rather have seen a new locked 30 day alongside the open 30 and 7 day campaigns. Just to see which is preferred by the players. I don't really care about faction locks, I made the choice to play for one faction for myself only, not everyone. But it would be interesting to see if the player base prefers (even imposed) faction loyalty.

I mean, another 30 day campaign would be great for the faction lock too, I just don't think the population is there to achieve it. If they wanted 30 day campaign, that's great. There's room for all. But to have them shoe horning us into the same old stereotype of spais, hopping to the easiest ap, trolls and farmers is really frustrating. That percentage of people is so few.

Sandman929

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Yet to read any good counter argument to @DisgracefulMind 's posts, reading crap like buy more accounts, go away and hide on the server nobody plays on, it's your fault you live in Oceania and you're just doing it to farm ap are some of the worst posts I've ever read on here. So much for play as you want. I stand by my view that Faction RPers are the most toxic players in this game.

The only counter I could think of is to your point of "the server nobody plays on", we might not have all the details of the changes that are coming. Right now, Shor on your platform, might not have the population you'd like at the times you play, but that could change. We're all looking at the change we've heard about in isolation and applying it to the game as it currently is to draw conclusions from that.
I want a faction locked campaign. I don't really want it at the expense of others, but that seems to be how we're going to get it if there's only one 30 day option and people who play multiple factions would prefer the 30 day.

I'm okay with a faction lock. It should be Shor, and it should be allowed to be guested, with no Campaign Rewards. 99% of us who play this game don't do it for the rewards anymore. Transmute stones are too easy to get.

Some of us really just want to play this damn game with their friends and not be locked out of it. I think people are missing the concept of what a game actually is supposed to be.

Or the developer is continuing to develop what the game is supposed to be. Personally, I would rather have seen a new locked 30 day alongside the open 30 and 7 day campaigns. Just to see which is preferred by the players. I don't really care about faction locks, I made the choice to play for one faction for myself only, not everyone. But it would be interesting to see if the player base prefers (even imposed) faction loyalty.

I mean, another 30 day campaign would be great for the faction lock too, I just don't think the population is there to achieve it. If they wanted 30 day campaign, that's great. There's room for all. But to have them shoe horning us into the same old stereotype of spais, hopping to the easiest ap, trolls and farmers is really frustrating. That percentage of people is so few.

A separate 30 day would have been a better experiment. If it remained empty, ZOS could safely toss it out. If it is more popular than the open campaign, then that's interesting too. I'm sure the main goal is to spread people out, not to promote faction loyalty. I'm sure they'd love to see the 30 day and the 7 day at 2 bars for all factions in primetime, and players are clearly never going to make that happen themselves, despite the fact that they could, and everyone complains about lag, and everyone hates queues. Everyone still piles into one campaign and says they don't play the other campaign because no one plays the other campaign and on and on it goes.

SirAndy

My 4 mains are spread across all 3 factions.

Do we even still have 3 short one week campaigns left for all of them to fit into?

Sandman929

SirAndy wrote: »

My 4 mains are spread across all 3 factions.

Do we even still have 3 short one week campaigns left for all of them to fit into?

The 7 days will be open, not locked, as of now. So they can all play in there.

InvictusApollo

Sandman929 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

My 4 mains are spread across all 3 factions.

Do we even still have 3 short one week campaigns left for all of them to fit into?

The 7 days will be open, not locked, as of now. So they can all play in there.

The 7 days is CP campaign. There is no 7 day noCP campaign. And half the community prefers noCP for many reasons.

DisgracefulMind

Sandman929 wrote: »

These threads are always have one of my favorite ESO contradictions. Rewards aren't good enough to promote faction loyalty and no one wants to go to 7 day because they want their rewards.
One faction locked campaign is all I really wanted, so I'm quite happy with the change if it happens. I don't care if the campaign is called Vivec or Shor or anything else, and I don't care if it's 7 or 30 day.
Right now I home the 30 day for the transmute crystals, but only play there long enough to get tier 1 and spend the rest of my time playing in Shor where, for the most part, lag isn't horrific.
Which brings up another classic ESO player issue...everyone hates prime time lag but no one wants to leave the overstuffed 30 day campaign to improve performance.

With the introduction of transmute geodes, yes, people want to play the 30-day to get their 50 geode at the end of it. I'm not saying the more hardcore PvP players play for rewards, and, yes, they need to be fixed up a bit (but I'm not here to focus on improving rewards). The people who are coming into the campaigns that are less hardcore are the ones that keep fights going across the map -- without them we'd see no new players coming in, not as many people to fights, etc. etc. Geodes being introduced was a good thing for PvP as it led PvE players into Cyrodiil, and many come back just to PvP now. We see concentrated players in the 30-day due to 1. geodes and 2. the 30-day being the main attraction for guilds to play because it is the map with more action, it always has been.

My point here is that this is one of the bigger reasons most of the people coming into PvP will stick to the 30-day campaigns. When this then reflects into off-hours and oceanic, the fights and population are only in the 30-day. There is not enough people to spread through the multiple campaigns, there hasn't been for years now. What is it that makes everyone think that we're suddenly going to have this massive increase in off-hour and oceanic population?

Elsweyr is bringing a new class, sure, but once the initial excitement dies down, so will the campaigns.

DisgracefulMind

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It makes no sense that people are going to play in the 7-day because, let's be real, most people want to play the 30 day and still get their crystals at the end of it. They're not going to want to play the 7-day. They've NEVER wanted to play the 7-day.

Those people that want to get their crystals will have to play the 7 day as that is the only way they can get their crystals. This should boost the population of the 7 day while diminishing the population of the 30 day just for this simple fact. ZOS has the data, it apparently leans the way they are leaning. If what you say is true and people don't like the 7 day because it is 7 days, then the obvious solution is to not have a 7 day, but rather make them all 30 day and allow faction swapping on one of those 30 day campaigns. I am assuming the data does not speak to this, but I don't know it was also stated that they wanted to split the population among all the servers. This would seem to be a way to do that if that is one of their goals with this change.

I'm not saying this is all about crystals, it's not. What I'm saying is that most people will still play the 30-day because they do want their rewards at the end of it, which is directly forcing people into faction locking.

Over ESO's history of dwindling PvP population, from my experience over 5 years on PC/NA, players very, very rarely choose the 7-day campaign, and faction lock won't change this. The 7-day will stay dead, I'm almost sure of it. The faction hoppers want PvP too, so we'll play the 30-day, it's just sad that we're cut off completely from playing with friends or fighting for the outnumbered side unless we want a lower populated campaign.

EDIT:
I think they should do a test with locks before they implement it, personally. And per server. Because PC/NA is vastly different from PC/EU, and onwards.

They have stated that this whole thing is experimental. We will see how it shakes out or if there is a better way to appease both sides of this equation. So really consider this whole thing a test.

Which is why people who are faction hoppers are stating their opinions here and now, and will continue to, because this is a test that should not be implemented this far into a game's PvP that's already falling apart.

That being said, I hope it's a bad experiment.

If faction hoppers really want to make a statement then they should all join the 7 day ffa campaign so that their collective voice may be heard when the new campaigns are rolled out with Elswyr. Doing anything other than that only reinforces the faction locked campaigns. That will be their chance to really voice an opinion and show their numbers.

I've said this like...10+ times already in these faction lock arguments.

There are not enough people in off-hours and oceanic for us to "spread" to another campaign if we want to find PvP at all.

So we need to just not PvP? We're being told that we have to be faction loyalists to find action during any time other than US primetime and sometimes the weekend. And why? I thought this game was about playing how you want, was about community.

Why don't we split the open world zones back into alliance locks then too? We can go back to the dead wastelands every single zone was before we all were meshed together.

ZoS has and kept encouraging us to make friends across all factions, to roll characters across all factions, to build communities across all factions. And now what is this they're doing? Taking back years of community foundations in this game?

Ruckly

There is currently 6 threads on faction lock on the front page of this forum. I made a light bulb joke thread on April Fools and it gets locked .

Ranger209

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It makes no sense that people are going to play in the 7-day because, let's be real, most people want to play the 30 day and still get their crystals at the end of it. They're not going to want to play the 7-day. They've NEVER wanted to play the 7-day.

Those people that want to get their crystals will have to play the 7 day as that is the only way they can get their crystals. This should boost the population of the 7 day while diminishing the population of the 30 day just for this simple fact. ZOS has the data, it apparently leans the way they are leaning. If what you say is true and people don't like the 7 day because it is 7 days, then the obvious solution is to not have a 7 day, but rather make them all 30 day and allow faction swapping on one of those 30 day campaigns. I am assuming the data does not speak to this, but I don't know it was also stated that they wanted to split the population among all the servers. This would seem to be a way to do that if that is one of their goals with this change.

I'm not saying this is all about crystals, it's not. What I'm saying is that most people will still play the 30-day because they do want their rewards at the end of it, which is directly forcing people into faction locking.

Over ESO's history of dwindling PvP population, from my experience over 5 years on PC/NA, players very, very rarely choose the 7-day campaign, and faction lock won't change this. The 7-day will stay dead, I'm almost sure of it. The faction hoppers want PvP too, so we'll play the 30-day, it's just sad that we're cut off completely from playing with friends or fighting for the outnumbered side unless we want a lower populated campaign.

EDIT:
I think they should do a test with locks before they implement it, personally. And per server. Because PC/NA is vastly different from PC/EU, and onwards.

They have stated that this whole thing is experimental. We will see how it shakes out or if there is a better way to appease both sides of this equation. So really consider this whole thing a test.

Which is why people who are faction hoppers are stating their opinions here and now, and will continue to, because this is a test that should not be implemented this far into a game's PvP that's already falling apart.

That being said, I hope it's a bad experiment.

If faction hoppers really want to make a statement then they should all join the 7 day ffa campaign so that their collective voice may be heard when the new campaigns are rolled out with Elswyr. Doing anything other than that only reinforces the faction locked campaigns. That will be their chance to really voice an opinion and show their numbers.

I've said this like...10+ times already in these faction lock arguments.

There are not enough people in off-hours and oceanic for us to "spread" to another campaign if we want to find PvP at all.

So we need to just not PvP? We're being told that we have to be faction loyalists to find action during any time other than US primetime and sometimes the weekend. And why? I thought this game was about playing how you want, was about community.

Why don't we split the open world zones back into alliance locks then too? We can go back to the dead wastelands every single zone was before we all were meshed together.

ZoS has and kept encouraging us to make friends across all factions, to roll characters across all factions, to build communities across all factions. And now what is this they're doing? Taking back years of community foundations in this game?

So are the majority of Oceanic/Asiatic players in favor of faction locking and would thus home on a faction locked server? Is this your concern? Tell me more about Oceanic play time. Do they spread out among the factions or does the majority stick to one? Do the majority swap a lot or do they pretty much just play one faction? What is the dynamic in that regard during Oceanic/Asiatic mainstream play times?

Elong

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It makes no sense that people are going to play in the 7-day because, let's be real, most people want to play the 30 day and still get their crystals at the end of it. They're not going to want to play the 7-day. They've NEVER wanted to play the 7-day.

Those people that want to get their crystals will have to play the 7 day as that is the only way they can get their crystals. This should boost the population of the 7 day while diminishing the population of the 30 day just for this simple fact. ZOS has the data, it apparently leans the way they are leaning. If what you say is true and people don't like the 7 day because it is 7 days, then the obvious solution is to not have a 7 day, but rather make them all 30 day and allow faction swapping on one of those 30 day campaigns. I am assuming the data does not speak to this, but I don't know it was also stated that they wanted to split the population among all the servers. This would seem to be a way to do that if that is one of their goals with this change.

I'm not saying this is all about crystals, it's not. What I'm saying is that most people will still play the 30-day because they do want their rewards at the end of it, which is directly forcing people into faction locking.

Over ESO's history of dwindling PvP population, from my experience over 5 years on PC/NA, players very, very rarely choose the 7-day campaign, and faction lock won't change this. The 7-day will stay dead, I'm almost sure of it. The faction hoppers want PvP too, so we'll play the 30-day, it's just sad that we're cut off completely from playing with friends or fighting for the outnumbered side unless we want a lower populated campaign.

EDIT:
I think they should do a test with locks before they implement it, personally. And per server. Because PC/NA is vastly different from PC/EU, and onwards.

They have stated that this whole thing is experimental. We will see how it shakes out or if there is a better way to appease both sides of this equation. So really consider this whole thing a test.

Which is why people who are faction hoppers are stating their opinions here and now, and will continue to, because this is a test that should not be implemented this far into a game's PvP that's already falling apart.

That being said, I hope it's a bad experiment.

If faction hoppers really want to make a statement then they should all join the 7 day ffa campaign so that their collective voice may be heard when the new campaigns are rolled out with Elswyr. Doing anything other than that only reinforces the faction locked campaigns. That will be their chance to really voice an opinion and show their numbers.

I've said this like...10+ times already in these faction lock arguments.

There are not enough people in off-hours and oceanic for us to "spread" to another campaign if we want to find PvP at all.

So we need to just not PvP? We're being told that we have to be faction loyalists to find action during any time other than US primetime and sometimes the weekend. And why? I thought this game was about playing how you want, was about community.

Why don't we split the open world zones back into alliance locks then too? We can go back to the dead wastelands every single zone was before we all were meshed together.

ZoS has and kept encouraging us to make friends across all factions, to roll characters across all factions, to build communities across all factions. And now what is this they're doing? Taking back years of community foundations in this game?

So are the majority of Oceanic/Asiatic players in favor of faction locking and would thus home on a faction locked server? Is this your concern? Tell me more about Oceanic play time. Do they spread out among the factions or does the majority stick to one? Do the majority swap a lot or do they pretty much just play one faction? What is the dynamic in that regard during Oceanic/Asiatic mainstream play times?

We spread out. There just isn't enough of us to go around. I don't know where people think the population for a dying game is going to come from for another campaign to be busy. Vivec hasn't been poplocked for DC all day and evening for example even in NA primetime.

TBois

As someone who saw the negative affects of faction locking already in this game, I don't think faction locking will solve the issues of faction spies, and it will only increase map imbalance. We have a smaller population than we did when faction locking was implemented before.

I see this as a larger issue of zos not prioritizing keeping long term customers, and they focus heavily on attracting new players. That is partly why addressing performance has been a lower priority than introducing new content.

I will be unsubbing. I will only home the non faction locked campaign, and I will encourage all guilds I am in to do the same.

DisgracefulMind

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

It makes no sense that people are going to play in the 7-day because, let's be real, most people want to play the 30 day and still get their crystals at the end of it. They're not going to want to play the 7-day. They've NEVER wanted to play the 7-day.

Those people that want to get their crystals will have to play the 7 day as that is the only way they can get their crystals. This should boost the population of the 7 day while diminishing the population of the 30 day just for this simple fact. ZOS has the data, it apparently leans the way they are leaning. If what you say is true and people don't like the 7 day because it is 7 days, then the obvious solution is to not have a 7 day, but rather make them all 30 day and allow faction swapping on one of those 30 day campaigns. I am assuming the data does not speak to this, but I don't know it was also stated that they wanted to split the population among all the servers. This would seem to be a way to do that if that is one of their goals with this change.

I'm not saying this is all about crystals, it's not. What I'm saying is that most people will still play the 30-day because they do want their rewards at the end of it, which is directly forcing people into faction locking.

Over ESO's history of dwindling PvP population, from my experience over 5 years on PC/NA, players very, very rarely choose the 7-day campaign, and faction lock won't change this. The 7-day will stay dead, I'm almost sure of it. The faction hoppers want PvP too, so we'll play the 30-day, it's just sad that we're cut off completely from playing with friends or fighting for the outnumbered side unless we want a lower populated campaign.

EDIT:
I think they should do a test with locks before they implement it, personally. And per server. Because PC/NA is vastly different from PC/EU, and onwards.

They have stated that this whole thing is experimental. We will see how it shakes out or if there is a better way to appease both sides of this equation. So really consider this whole thing a test.

Which is why people who are faction hoppers are stating their opinions here and now, and will continue to, because this is a test that should not be implemented this far into a game's PvP that's already falling apart.

That being said, I hope it's a bad experiment.

If faction hoppers really want to make a statement then they should all join the 7 day ffa campaign so that their collective voice may be heard when the new campaigns are rolled out with Elswyr. Doing anything other than that only reinforces the faction locked campaigns. That will be their chance to really voice an opinion and show their numbers.

I've said this like...10+ times already in these faction lock arguments.

There are not enough people in off-hours and oceanic for us to "spread" to another campaign if we want to find PvP at all.

So we need to just not PvP? We're being told that we have to be faction loyalists to find action during any time other than US primetime and sometimes the weekend. And why? I thought this game was about playing how you want, was about community.

Why don't we split the open world zones back into alliance locks then too? We can go back to the dead wastelands every single zone was before we all were meshed together.

ZoS has and kept encouraging us to make friends across all factions, to roll characters across all factions, to build communities across all factions. And now what is this they're doing? Taking back years of community foundations in this game?

So are the majority of Oceanic/Asiatic players in favor of faction locking and would thus home on a faction locked server? Is this your concern? Tell me more about Oceanic play time. Do they spread out among the factions or does the majority stick to one? Do the majority swap a lot or do they pretty much just play one faction? What is the dynamic in that regard during Oceanic/Asiatic mainstream play times?

I'm sure there are a chunk of the oceanic faction guilds who might prefer faction locking, but there's very few guilds who play oceanic on PC/NA as is. Typically our oceanic looks like this: 2 bar AD almost all of oceanic, 1 bar EP, 1-2 bar DC (there is a DC guild that gets on about 5-6am EST that boosts them to 2 bars), sometimes EP will hit 2 bars, but drop back down to 1.

There are quite a few players that faction swap during oceanic, especially when one faction is pushing most of the map. I know DC players that come to EP, AD players that go to EP or DC, and EP players that (if our faction is pushing too much of the map in oceanic) will swap to DC or AD if needed.

That's all of the PvP population during oceanic, we can't actually spread out to a 7-day because there's not enough of us to do so. It'd kill the 30-day AND still be dead in the 7-day during this time.

Zavijah

I can definitely appreciate all the for's and against. It certainly does penalise those that play the map across all their characters without bias, who just have an affinity for either CP, or no CP.

Let me give one example though, and for a different type of faction lock that I wouldn't be opposed to.

As a Oceanic player playing at 6pm-11pm my time, the game overall does have a lower population but by no means a small number given the amount of internationals + late night Americans.

Specifically speaking about PVP though, I have personally witnessed known Vivec Red guilds/players that Do play at a different times on their home map log in to Sotha on Blue alts simply to deny my team a low pop bonus, when called on by my maps dedicated Reds.

While clever, it's an EVE-grade level of spite outside of the anticipated mechanics. I'd honestly like to see a variance cap on how many people can be on a faction compared to how many are currently on the other factions but that wouldn't stop the above as would create an artificial increased cap on non playing Blue's, allowing more reds to filter in. (Yellow - where are you, friends?)

Truthfully though, while there are a ton of players active at the times I play, it's certainly not in Sotha. Whether that be an aversion from the outset to going on a map stacked against them to begin with or a hate of No CP, I can't answer - and I wouldn't dare ask for any rules to be changed around the less than 15 for my team.

One thing's for sure, while the native Reds' are extremely good players and have every keep buff (and Emp) at their disposal - there's only so much tolerance to being farmed down south at Yellow keeps that they insultingly don't even cap, instead just seeking to prevent us exclusively.

I'm done with it. And if it means I only play one faction now, on one map - then so be it. But it won't be Sotha. Have a red PVE map.

idk

Zos tends to listen to anything as long as they are vocal. Those calling for faction lock have not provided anything suggestion campaigns are truly negatively affected by the lack of faction lock.

I have no issue with Zos adding some campaigns with faction lock, but now that I know they are doing this to Vivec it is clear Zos is doing another change to the game without thinking this through. The lack of vision and lack of thinking things through that have plagued this game since before it launches continues because we still have the same person in charge of Zos even though he has been quiet in recent months. In other words, the change as it was described last week is just stupid. It should affect the smaller campaigns.

Tonnopesce

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

DisgracefulMind

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime (or the main primetime for most servers* adding this in as a correction) though.

Tonnopesce

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

DisgracefulMind

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

Sorry, I don't know if you play on PC/NA or whatever, but on PC/NA there usually is only queues on weekends and typically only in American primetime. And that's only on Vivec, Shor doesn't get a queue here. It barely ever gets over 2 bars. Sometimes on the weekend.

Also, I don't know where you're from, don't need to speak rudely, we can converse without "duh".

Tonnopesce

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

Sorry, I don't know if you play on PC/NA or whatever, but on PC/NA there usually is only queues on weekends and typically only in American primetime. And that's only on Vivec, Shor doesn't get a queue here. It barely ever gets over 2 bars. Sometimes on the weekend.

Also, I don't know where you're from, duhhhhhh (since we want to talk like immature brats).

What?

DisgracefulMind

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

Sorry, I don't know if you play on PC/NA or whatever, but on PC/NA there usually is only queues on weekends and typically only in American primetime. And that's only on Vivec, Shor doesn't get a queue here. It barely ever gets over 2 bars. Sometimes on the weekend.

Also, I don't know where you're from, duhhhhhh (since we want to talk like immature brats).

What?

You're not on the same server as me, I think we both have the same point, but it's not the same for us on PC/NA, is what I was trying to get across, I'm sorry for snapping back at you, it was rude.

We don't have the queues that EU gets, I don't think, anyways. That's why being told to go spread to the 7-day isn't really a sensible argument for us.

Tyrion87

Faction lock should not be implemented before alliance change tokens. Actually everyone should be able to change the alliance of all their characters for free if faction lock goes live. If made otherwise, I smell a big fasco that will decrease the overall population in PvP even more.

People advocating for faction lock perhaps forget that it is only a game and so-called 'alliance identity' or 'alliance loyalty' are nothing but childish and indicate that maybe it is high time to visit a psychiatrist.

Just let people play with their friends.

Tonnopesce

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

Sorry, I don't know if you play on PC/NA or whatever, but on PC/NA there usually is only queues on weekends and typically only in American primetime. And that's only on Vivec, Shor doesn't get a queue here. It barely ever gets over 2 bars. Sometimes on the weekend.

Also, I don't know where you're from, duhhhhhh (since we want to talk like immature brats).

What?

You're not on the same server as me, I think we both have the same point, but it's not the same for us on PC/NA, is what I was trying to get across, I'm sorry for snapping back at you, it was rude.

We don't have the queues that EU gets, I don't think, anyways. That's why being told to go spread to the 7-day isn't really a sensible argument for us.

I honestly believed that we in eu where the underdogs and that us had the bigger pvp population.
The thing that i really don't get (except for the duh... i did not know it was offensive...) is why everyone is worried about vivec.
Is for the rewards? They are afraid of changes? Considering that in the seven days campaign you get rewards every week it should be the same as for the 30 days.
Plus since we will have the new ic campaign everyone in the pvp community will be able to get more TV stones ence a new mainstream currency with new ways to make gold and pay for the potions/stuff we need for regular pvp.

DisgracefulMind

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

Sorry, I don't know if you play on PC/NA or whatever, but on PC/NA there usually is only queues on weekends and typically only in American primetime. And that's only on Vivec, Shor doesn't get a queue here. It barely ever gets over 2 bars. Sometimes on the weekend.

Also, I don't know where you're from, duhhhhhh (since we want to talk like immature brats).

What?

You're not on the same server as me, I think we both have the same point, but it's not the same for us on PC/NA, is what I was trying to get across, I'm sorry for snapping back at you, it was rude.

We don't have the queues that EU gets, I don't think, anyways. That's why being told to go spread to the 7-day isn't really a sensible argument for us.

I honestly believed that we in eu where the underdogs and that us had the bigger pvp population.
The thing that i really don't get (except for the duh... i did not know it was offensive...) is why everyone is worried about vivec.
Is for the rewards? They are afraid of changes? Considering that in the seven days campaign you get rewards every week it should be the same as for the 30 days.
Plus since we will have the new ic campaign everyone in the pvp community will be able to get more TV stones ence a new mainstream currency with new ways to make gold and pay for the potions/stuff we need for regular pvp.

People aren't worried about Vivec, what they're concerned about is there not being enough people to "spread" out to the other campaigns during off-hours and oceanic time zone, therefore forcing those players in those play times to lock into a campaign for one faction. Most "casual" PvP players do, indeed, home the 30-day. It's convenient for them, and they do reap crystals at the end of it. Oceanic PvP sees a lot of hoppers specifically because we have lower oceanic pop on PC/NA and it helps to let people swap around to help the faction getting gate-camped.

As far as I've heard, as well, I think PC/EU has more PvP pop than us.

Merlight

Tyrion87 wrote: »

People advocating for faction lock perhaps forget that it is only a game and so-called 'alliance identity' or 'alliance loyalty' are nothing but childish and indicate that maybe it is high time to visit a psychiatrist.

Tonnopesce

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

Sorry, I don't know if you play on PC/NA or whatever, but on PC/NA there usually is only queues on weekends and typically only in American primetime. And that's only on Vivec, Shor doesn't get a queue here. It barely ever gets over 2 bars. Sometimes on the weekend.

Also, I don't know where you're from, duhhhhhh (since we want to talk like immature brats).

What?

You're not on the same server as me, I think we both have the same point, but it's not the same for us on PC/NA, is what I was trying to get across, I'm sorry for snapping back at you, it was rude.

We don't have the queues that EU gets, I don't think, anyways. That's why being told to go spread to the 7-day isn't really a sensible argument for us.

I honestly believed that we in eu where the underdogs and that us had the bigger pvp population.
The thing that i really don't get (except for the duh... i did not know it was offensive...) is why everyone is worried about vivec.
Is for the rewards? They are afraid of changes? Considering that in the seven days campaign you get rewards every week it should be the same as for the 30 days.
Plus since we will have the new ic campaign everyone in the pvp community will be able to get more TV stones ence a new mainstream currency with new ways to make gold and pay for the potions/stuff we need for regular pvp.

People aren't worried about Vivec, what they're concerned about is there not being enough people to "spread" out to the other campaigns during off-hours and oceanic time zone, therefore forcing those players in those play times to lock into a campaign for one faction. Most "casual" PvP players do, indeed, home the 30-day. It's convenient for them, and they do reap crystals at the end of it. Oceanic PvP sees a lot of hoppers specifically because we have lower oceanic pop on PC/NA and it helps to let people swap around to help the faction getting gate-camped.

As far as I've heard, as well, I think PC/EU has more PvP pop than us.

So why the oceanic dont use the seven days as a "home" campaign? it will become like this for pretty much everyone anyway.
Except for me i will be in IC (the best expansion the game have) night and day.
I was waiting for this patch since i saw that locking ic behind cyrodiil was a bad idea (4 years yes)