Faction Lock? Really? Again?

emelee_ESO

InvictusApollo wrote: »

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Sandman929 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

My 4 mains are spread across all 3 factions.

Do we even still have 3 short one week campaigns left for all of them to fit into?

The 7 days will be open, not locked, as of now. So they can all play in there.

The 7 days is CP campaign. There is no 7 day noCP campaign. And half the community prefers noCP for many reasons.

^^ This is the problem for me as well. I prefer non-CP. My main toon is EP, first character made at launch, most done on it, and I spend most of my time on it. All subsequent chars are AD because friends started playing later than me. So I will be getting screwed over on at least one of my characters, and the one I play the most.

This is personal to me, but there is definitely a lot of non-CP folks that are going to have problems.

I am not fully against faction lock as long as they provide a non-cp 7 day or a faction change.

DisgracefulMind

Tonnopesce wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

So the "spread the population" point everyone is ignoring or that there will be other 4 campaigns(2 fresh ic with maybe really good rewards) without lock?
When you have 300 ppl per faction waiting in queue during prime time, with the new system (without home-guest) you guys really believe that the other servers will remain empty?
I want to know what you guys are smoking because it looks really good....

Just a pun no offence.

Yesterday i've waited in queue around 80 ppl, Monday, dc faction (low pop compared to the others) i cannot imagine how long the wait was for ep

Yeah that's only American primetime though.

Duh i'm from Italy usually when i log in at evening around eight i always get queue, considering the week ends and the empty days i get around 40 ppl each day as queue.
Enought to fill one bar of another campaign.
Plus, i'm considering only the vivec queue, even shor have it.

Sorry, I don't know if you play on PC/NA or whatever, but on PC/NA there usually is only queues on weekends and typically only in American primetime. And that's only on Vivec, Shor doesn't get a queue here. It barely ever gets over 2 bars. Sometimes on the weekend.

Also, I don't know where you're from, duhhhhhh (since we want to talk like immature brats).

What?

You're not on the same server as me, I think we both have the same point, but it's not the same for us on PC/NA, is what I was trying to get across, I'm sorry for snapping back at you, it was rude.

We don't have the queues that EU gets, I don't think, anyways. That's why being told to go spread to the 7-day isn't really a sensible argument for us.

I honestly believed that we in eu where the underdogs and that us had the bigger pvp population.
The thing that i really don't get (except for the duh... i did not know it was offensive...) is why everyone is worried about vivec.
Is for the rewards? They are afraid of changes? Considering that in the seven days campaign you get rewards every week it should be the same as for the 30 days.
Plus since we will have the new ic campaign everyone in the pvp community will be able to get more TV stones ence a new mainstream currency with new ways to make gold and pay for the potions/stuff we need for regular pvp.

People aren't worried about Vivec, what they're concerned about is there not being enough people to "spread" out to the other campaigns during off-hours and oceanic time zone, therefore forcing those players in those play times to lock into a campaign for one faction. Most "casual" PvP players do, indeed, home the 30-day. It's convenient for them, and they do reap crystals at the end of it. Oceanic PvP sees a lot of hoppers specifically because we have lower oceanic pop on PC/NA and it helps to let people swap around to help the faction getting gate-camped.

As far as I've heard, as well, I think PC/EU has more PvP pop than us.

So why the oceanic dont use the seven days as a "home" campaign? it will become like this for pretty much everyone anyway.
Except for me i will be in IC (the best expansion the game have) night and day.
I was waiting for this patch since i saw that locking ic behind cyrodiil was a bad idea (4 years yes)

Because people are going to flock to the 30-day, like they always do. It's not like we can sit down and have an "oceanic only" meeting.

Not even just oceanic suffers from this problem though, the off-hours are the same on PC/NA. Unless it's the weekend the other campaigns are almost entirely dead. People have defaulted to a main campaign for 5 years now, it isn't going to change. And there's no magical number of people who are going to show up and give us more off-hour and oceanic population. This is a huge concern for the PC/NA PvP scene. The 7-day is always dead. I don't think that habit will change, it hasn't in years.

disintegr8

Maybe it's another step towards ZOS killing off PVP - they had a cunning plan.....
I can't see how this will attract more players to PVP than it pushes away.

Demra

In the twitch ZOS said they can disable this function easily implying if it won't work they will remove it. They also mentioned that there was faction lock long ago. So i don't think a disaster will happen.

You might be right with your prediction but worst case they will remove the lock. I am curious to try the faction lock though, maybe it will work and gives me more incentive to play cyrodiil's objectives beyond the regular fights.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Demra wrote: »

In the twitch ZOS said they can disable this function easily implying if it won't work they will remove it. They also mentioned that there was faction lock long ago. So i don't think a disaster will happen.

You might be right with your prediction but worst case they will remove the lock. I am curious to try the faction lock though, maybe it will work and gives me more incentive to play cyrodiil's objectives beyond the regular fights.

If it took zos a year to "easily" enable faction locks I don't hold out hope for them to "easily" disable faction locks.

Delsskia

Elong wrote: »

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Vapirko wrote: »

You can play on any faction in Shor or either of the IC campaigns, problem solved. You don’t need to experience the alliance war on every faction every campaign, spoiler alert it’s the same every time. Besides if you’re just jumping between alliances you’re not really experiencing a tri faction war.

Why don't you go to Shor instead of us?

Shor is where people go to make it look like they're soloing groups on their streams.

DisgracefulMind

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

idk

Enkil wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

Silliness...

@Elong most of us wanted and advocated for a new 7-day locked campaign (or to lock one of the 7-days). The devs decided what to lock and not lock so point your ire in their direction rather than toward specific individual players please.

And people who play different time zones than primetime are telling all the faction rpers why it's bad for oceanic and off-hours. There isn't the population to play the 7-day during oceanic. So, yes, the faction locks should be on the less played campaigns.

I thought ESO was play how you want? So all the faction rpers are basically telling us we aren't allowed to play with our friends except during primetime? Which a lot of us can't play/aren't in that time zone.

It's selfish.

My point is y’all are barking up the wrong tree. We just want one faction locked campaign. I’d prefer it to be a 7-day rather than Vivec. Make your case to the devs.

You got faction lock that you vehemently argued for and now you are not happy how it was implemented? Great.

It will not bring the glory back to Cyrodiil. Those days ended well before faction lock was removed so faction lock will not bring those back. We lost so many strong players and more importantly leaders that have not been replaced over time.

We know this as fact because we used to fill up two campaigns back when the pop lock was much higher than it is now. We currently have such a small fraction of PvP players that we once had and they mostly left due how poorly this game has been managed from the start. The change that was needed has not been made.

Ranger209

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

ellahellabella

Ranger209 wrote: »

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ellahellabella wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

making a 30 day choice has consequences, both good and bad.
but that's the way it should be, no one should be able to alter their faction choice until after the campaign has ended, the results of your choice may have been good or may have been bad, none the less it was a choice and should be stayed with untill the 30 days has expired.

Except the PvP population is small on PC/NA especially in oceanic hours and now we're screwed and can't go find fights if our faction is zerging the map because that's what faction rp pugs do.

So our option is to sit on a dead campaign?

Also it's an absolute rip-off from a customer POV. I've spent good money race-changing and other things for my other faction characters, and now I can't play them because I'm not playing in a dead campaign during oceanic, which barely holds any pop as is in the current 30-day. What makes you all think it's going to magically go up? There's only just enough pop in the 30-day in off-hours, barely any in oceanic, and massive lag zergs in primetime. So, tell me, besides rare times on the weekends, where the PvP gonna be? The main camp, obviously.

Nah faction rpers are the most selfish PvPers in this game. Good job, all.

^^^ALL THE BOLD^^^ Oceanic is a thing you Rping Americans! Get off my throat please

And what makes Oceanic/Asiatic people more important than American's that they should get their way? What makes the limited amount of people who can't fill the server up more important than the majority of people who can fill the server up. What makes the rping faction swappers who think they are "faction saviors" or "invincible awesomesauce" more important than the rping faction loyalists that want the 3 banner war to mean something the way it was designed and intended?

You guys had the opportunity for years to split up among the factions and fight each other, you know find "good fights", but rather than that you decided rolling the map was more fun against npc's. Guess what though, there will still be a server where you can continue to play that way, or you can play the faction lock campaign and continue to roll the map like the majority of people who play during those hours always have, and then that can be dealt with later with future improvements to the 3 banner war that limits the impact of that behavior.

The 3 banner war is supposed to be something that is bigger than any individual or small group of people. It's not about you, or me, or someone else, or some small group of people, it is large scale. It is supposed to be AvAvA not small scale or 1vX. You can do those things in AvAvA, but the primary impetus for Cyrodiil is AvAvA siege warfare. That is what it was designed for and that is how it was intended to be experienced, and a lot of people would like to see it return to its roots.

Sorry, been off the forums for two days. Been really sick.
As Bee said, NO WHERE did I say that Oceanic is more important! But you are all telling me to go to Shor and I'm telling you now that Shor is dead!
Obviously, you and I have never met. If we had, you would know that I'm absolutely against gate camping and often refuse to push tri keeps if that faction is suffering. I don't hang around the faction that does said camping, I switch.
You know that smallscallers actually do help their alliance by pulling off large numbers of foes to attack these groups right? In all terms, it's an ava just like you want.

DisgracefulMind

Ranger209 wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

I guess you didn't read what I said.

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

But the people who do swap, they do make a difference. They allow the oceanic pugs to keep the keeps a bit longer, they help them keep their scrolls a bit longer. They help keep PvP going until they're just overwhelmed and that's that.

If ZoS actually made an effort to stop THIS activity in the screenshot, maybe faction locks would be somewhat okay. As it stands now, faction locks for this time period are a terrible idea.

This isn't a competitive AvAvA environment when one faction is rolling the other two consistently, and there's no way for players to move around to fight that faction back.

As I've said, over and over and over and over, there is not the population on PC/NA oceanic to spread out to any campaign but the one most people will flock to - the 30-day.

zyk

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

This is untrue. While none of us can provide a breakdown of what kind of player does what, when, what those players generally have in common is a desire for easy AP.

That's why everyone notes that regardless of which faction is most effective at pushing the map, it will be the most populous faction of that time period. The extra AD come from EP and DC. They're not loyal to anyone.

You have a very distorted view of players who enjoy AvA objective gameplay.

ellahellabella

zyk wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

This is untrue. While none of us can provide a breakdown of what kind of player does what, when, what those players generally have in common is a desire for easy AP.

That's why everyone notes that regardless of which faction is most effective at pushing the map, it will be the most populous faction of that time period. The extra AD come from EP and DC. They're not loyal to anyone.

You have a very distorted view of players who enjoy AvA objective gameplay.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I think you skimmed over an informative comment.

DisgracefulMind

zyk wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

This is untrue. While none of us can provide a breakdown of what kind of player does what, when, what those players generally have in common is a desire for easy AP.

That's why everyone notes that regardless of which faction is most effective at pushing the map, it will be the most populous faction of that time period. The extra AD come from EP and DC. They're not loyal to anyone.

You have a very distorted view of players who enjoy AvA objective gameplay.

The guilds who are doing this play AD almost exclusively from my experience in Cyrodiil. There are two of them I know about. You can correct me if I'm wrong, that's fine. I'm okay with discussion, I've said that. Throwing insults though, I'm not doing that to you.

I fight these guilds every night. I've fought them on EP and DC. Before these guilds mained AD, as they have for a very long time now, I used to get on AD and fight them on AD and EP.

Encouraging discussion and speaking out for a playerbase that is in the minority isn't wrong. I'm not going to shut up, because I feel like there's is a very narrow view being pushed onto everyone about the faction locks, and I am going to express the faction hopping view in return. I'm not sorry about that.

But you are right, there are always going to be people who want more AP, I can respect that point. That, however, can be heavily attuned to the high amount of AP you get for PvDooring keeps, in my opinion. ZoS has directly encouraged this behavior.

Elong

zyk wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The people doing this are faction loyal. Which is fine, they can roll the map for the glory of their faction.

This is untrue. While none of us can provide a breakdown of what kind of player does what, when, what those players generally have in common is a desire for easy AP.

That's why everyone notes that regardless of which faction is most effective at pushing the map, it will be the most populous faction of that time period. The extra AD come from EP and DC. They're not loyal to anyone.

You have a very distorted view of players who enjoy AvA objective gameplay.

It is true Zyk. Try playing the game in the timezones we are talking about. The 3 AD guilds that roll the map at this time of night are AD mains.

Ohtimbar

Here come the 10k crowns faction change tokens.

stephbay123

Very good thing. In vivec PS4 just now with reds and yellows full. I’m ad and in roe which is yellow watching reds take it but surprise surprise 3 yellows stand right next to reds watching them take it, go inside with them and do nothing then come outside kill some guards and continue to stand by the reds

zyk

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The guilds who are doing this play AD almost exclusively from my experience in Cyrodiil. There are two of them I know about. You can correct me if I'm wrong, that's fine. I'm okay with discussion, I've said that. Throwing insults though, I'm not doing that to you.

I don't think I'm throwing around any insults. You write as if players who prefer locks also enjoy faction stack pvdooring when there is no correlation to that. In my experience, the opposite is true.

Among those who prefer locks are multi-faction players. It's possible to play for all three factions but prefer faction locked gameplay.

PC/NA/AD/Vivec hasn't dominated the NA overnight time period for the past year. Different factions have been strong. It doesn't take much to turn the tide during low population intervals because any organized force has such a massive advantage over disorganized players.

One-sided dominance always starts with force of some kind which is pushing the map and can't be stopped. In the absence of other organized groups, it could be a large pug. In some cases there is no central leadership at all. Any middling ball group on any faction is going to be extremely disruptive without an opposition group that can compete against them.

When it's an actual guild doing the pushing, they have different reasons. Some hate low interval caps but started doing it in response to guilds on other factions who were regularly capping during the day. It was normal for a while for prime time to begin with an EP emp and 4-6x EP scrolls, so some AD used that as justification to night cap.

The players who join in after come from all sides. I see many notable EP and DC players on AD when it is rolling the map. When it's EP or DC, I see players who typically play for AD switch. Whatever the impetus of the push is, it's never only "faction loyalists."

It's not just about map play. Players of all kinds use unlocked factions to take the path of least resistance. The more small group players there are farming randoms in any given area, the more spread out the randoms will be, and the easier the hunting will be. Despite the current freedom to play for any faction, I never see EP small groups switch to their AD characters to fight the abundance of other EP small groups on.

Regardless of what ZOS does or how the introduction of faction locks plays out, personally, I'd like to see all guilds take some ownership of our community by playing less the role of wolves and more the role of shepherds. Disorganized randoms can't regulate their collective behavior, but organized groups can. This goes for groups of all sizes. Don't cap scrolls just because you can. Don't emp just because you can. Don't completely dominate against randoms just because you can. Play down to your competition at times and help your inexperienced teammates out more. Grow the game through good sportsmanship.

Bogdan_Kobzar

The guilds that are monopolizing the Cyrodiil maps are made up of players farming the AP to $ell in their guild stores. Make the goodies that can be purchased with AP account locked and this behavior will be minimal. It would be no longer profitable for the cult leaders of these guilds (not mentioning names due to the name and shame policy) to continue. While these individuals and guilds may still have followers, the majority of the profiteer players would leave Cyrodiil. The Mgt. removed the gold sellers and their bots from our game. It's time for these AP farmers and their minions to become extinct as well. Do the research, it's easy to follow the Cyrodiil gear seller trail, it's in the guild stores and zone chat.

Elong

Bogdan_Kobzar wrote: »

The guilds that are monopolizing the Cyrodiil maps are made up of players farming the AP to $ell in their guild stores. Make the goodies that can be purchased with AP account locked and this behavior will be minimal. It would be no longer profitable for the cult leaders of these guilds (not mentioning names due to the name and shame policy) to continue. While these individuals and guilds may still have followers, the majority of the profiteer players would leave Cyrodiil. The Mgt. removed the gold sellers and their bots from our game. It's time for these AP farmers and their minions to become extinct as well. Do the research, it's easy to follow the Cyrodiil gear seller trail, it's in the guild stores and zone chat.

There's so much that isn't true about this that I don't even know where to start. But trust me, earning gold via AP is one of the worst ways you could possibly try to earn gold.

ellahellabella

Elong wrote: »

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Bogdan_Kobzar wrote: »

The guilds that are monopolizing the Cyrodiil maps are made up of players farming the AP to $ell in their guild stores. Make the goodies that can be purchased with AP account locked and this behavior will be minimal. It would be no longer profitable for the cult leaders of these guilds (not mentioning names due to the name and shame policy) to continue. While these individuals and guilds may still have followers, the majority of the profiteer players would leave Cyrodiil. The Mgt. removed the gold sellers and their bots from our game. It's time for these AP farmers and their minions to become extinct as well. Do the research, it's easy to follow the Cyrodiil gear seller trail, it's in the guild stores and zone chat.

There's so much that isn't true about this that I don't even know where to start. But trust me, earning gold via AP is one of the worst ways you could possibly try to earn gold.

Yeah, you only find yourself selling ap when you have no gold at all and are in desperate need of some tempers or flowers.

Elong

ellahellabella wrote: »

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Elong wrote: »

Bogdan_Kobzar wrote: »

The guilds that are monopolizing the Cyrodiil maps are made up of players farming the AP to $ell in their guild stores. Make the goodies that can be purchased with AP account locked and this behavior will be minimal. It would be no longer profitable for the cult leaders of these guilds (not mentioning names due to the name and shame policy) to continue. While these individuals and guilds may still have followers, the majority of the profiteer players would leave Cyrodiil. The Mgt. removed the gold sellers and their bots from our game. It's time for these AP farmers and their minions to become extinct as well. Do the research, it's easy to follow the Cyrodiil gear seller trail, it's in the guild stores and zone chat.

There's so much that isn't true about this that I don't even know where to start. But trust me, earning gold via AP is one of the worst ways you could possibly try to earn gold.

Yeah, you only find yourself selling ap when you have no gold at all and are in desperate need of some tempers or flowers.

Exactly. If you earn 50k ap an hour, in 2 hours you can buy a Tri Rune Trait for Jewelry, Dawn-Prism, which will sell for ~15k gold. 2 hours work for 15k gold. Let's nip this crazy tin foil hat theory in the bud right now.

FakeZavos

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

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zyk wrote: »

This has nothing to do with roleplaying, so trying to insult players who prefer faction locks by calling them RPers is just disrespectful to actual roleplayers for no good reason and makes you look uninformed while doing it.

The vast majority of players who advocate for faction locks do so because in their experiences faction hopping has negatively impacted the AvA gameplay they enjoy.

There is no right or wrong here, it's purely a matter of preference. There are reasonable pros and cons to both approaches.

I say this as someone who prefers faction locks in games like this, but have not advocated for one in ESO AvA. At least not for years.

Sorry, *faction loyalists. (you can @ me next time you'd like to throw some shade, I'm fine with it, we can talk this out just an fyi)

It is preference, sure, but this game has allowed us to play how we want to (faction hopping to play with other friends and find more outnumbered fights included) for years now. To suddenly take it away isn't going to help anything in PvP. PvP, besides primetime, isn't exactly thriving. So what is this accomplishing?

I'm not saying people advocating for locks are terrible, and they deserve some sense of security as well, but locking people completely out of the 30-day campaigns is wrong. Make it so we can't home it on multiple alliances, sure, we won't reap the rewards, but we could still go and play other factions when our main one is zerging the map, or when our friends who main other alliances want to play with us.

This game's only good quality is community, and this is ripping that away from a lot of people.

This comment deserves more attention.

FakeZavos

Elong wrote: »

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ellahellabella wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Bogdan_Kobzar wrote: »

The guilds that are monopolizing the Cyrodiil maps are made up of players farming the AP to $ell in their guild stores. Make the goodies that can be purchased with AP account locked and this behavior will be minimal. It would be no longer profitable for the cult leaders of these guilds (not mentioning names due to the name and shame policy) to continue. While these individuals and guilds may still have followers, the majority of the profiteer players would leave Cyrodiil. The Mgt. removed the gold sellers and their bots from our game. It's time for these AP farmers and their minions to become extinct as well. Do the research, it's easy to follow the Cyrodiil gear seller trail, it's in the guild stores and zone chat.

There's so much that isn't true about this that I don't even know where to start. But trust me, earning gold via AP is one of the worst ways you could possibly try to earn gold.

Yeah, you only find yourself selling ap when you have no gold at all and are in desperate need of some tempers or flowers.

Exactly. If you earn 50k ap an hour, in 2 hours you can buy a Tri Rune Trait for Jewelry, Dawn-Prism, which will sell for ~15k gold. 2 hours work for 15k gold. Let's nip this crazy tin foil hat theory in the bud right now.

In 2 hours I use roughly 150 pots. With normally a value of around 16-18k per 150. Wich means that if I would make 15k in 2 hours from AP, I would loose 16-18k trough pots. And thats on my normal builds. I also have a potCD build with wich I use 360 pots per 2 hours. The pots I use are even more expensive at around 43k per 360. Wich would mean again that I make 15k (following ur calculations) and I would loose 43k with pots.

FakeZavos

Ranger209 wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dropping this example in the faction lock threads. This is PC/NA oceanic almost ever single night. Every few months it might be a different alliance doing it.

This is why we need faction hopping. There were AD players who didn't want to zerg that came to help out EP. Why is this a problem? Why should people get punished for the pvdoor zergs?

This AD pvdoor zerg btw is FACTION LOYAL. Not hoppers. Why are we the problem?

I have been watching this closely for the last 9 months. That map that you show there is the one I see almost every morning as AD goes up at the same time to grab all the scrolls. Being able to swap hasn't prevented this from occurring at all over that 9 month period. Those AD faction guilds steamroll whoever gets in their way. The freedom to swap has not stopped that and doesn't work as a mechanism to counter the qualities of human nature that lead to "pack mentality" or "strength in numbers". There are mechanisms that will, but faction lock is not going to fix that.

What faction lock is going to do is legitimize the fact that there is a 3 banner war going on throughout Cyrodiil. It will legitimize the AvAvA nature of the campaigns by making you pick a side and fight for it. It is going to add depth to the war by making cohesive units of alliances that span time zones on top of cohesive units of small groups of players in any given moment. It will legitimize the fact that there is a competitive AvAvA environment that has a scoring system, and winners, and losers. Faction locking is the first step in the right direction to having a competitive AvAvA environment.

Once that is in place the scoring system itself can be legitimized to account for sways in population so that no individual, or small group of individuals, has the dramatic impact on the scoreboard that the group of individuals your map shows has had on it for quite some time. There are other small groups that have the same impact during other time frames as well, but no group of individuals should have that much impact on the scoreboard simply because they fight virtually unopposed. There are ways to address this.

What you are showing exists with the ability to swap factions, and while swapping may allow individuals to find good fights it does nothing to counter, or compensate for the human nature that drives herding up to begin with.

If I take PC EU Vivec for example. This is roughly how the map looks during weekdays from 6am till 6pm. During primetime it seems pretty balanced on average and then in the night EP has almost everything on the map. I have chars on AD and EP so that when AD has the complete map I can have some fun on EP side. And then in the evening, when EP starts taking every keep on the map without serius recistance I relog to my AD so I can put up a fight with my friend on the other side.

I sometimes do take a scroll aswell. Not to troll (as zone suggest) but to take it to a keep tower for example to get a great fight. Will factionlock prevent me from doing that? If I choose EP as my faction, I will still take any scroll I can get my hands on to get better fights. Why, because I care about getting great fights. Preferably 6-8vs15-30. That my way of fun.

Do other people disagree with that way of fun? Probrably. Do other people enjoy going to an empty keep with 30 man and sieging it as fast as possible so they can flip and repair and go to the next keep before defenses arrive? Probrably. Do I disagree with that way of fun? Yes. Does that mean that any of the above is wrong and shoundt be possible? No.

This game has been about trying to give as many people as possible the most fun experience in the game since the start. Not always working but whatever. Do we need to lock out a certain type of enjoying the game for the sake of some of the other players? I dont think so in my opinion.

DisgracefulMind

zyk wrote: »

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DisgracefulMind wrote: »

The guilds who are doing this play AD almost exclusively from my experience in Cyrodiil. There are two of them I know about. You can correct me if I'm wrong, that's fine. I'm okay with discussion, I've said that. Throwing insults though, I'm not doing that to you.

I don't think I'm throwing around any insults. You write as if players who prefer locks also enjoy faction stack pvdooring when there is no correlation to that. In my experience, the opposite is true.

Among those who prefer locks are multi-faction players. It's possible to play for all three factions but prefer faction locked gameplay.

PC/NA/AD/Vivec hasn't dominated the NA overnight time period for the past year. Different factions have been strong. It doesn't take much to turn the tide during low population intervals because any organized force has such a massive advantage over disorganized players.

One-sided dominance always starts with force of some kind which is pushing the map and can't be stopped. In the absence of other organized groups, it could be a large pug. In some cases there is no central leadership at all. Any middling ball group on any faction is going to be extremely disruptive without an opposition group that can compete against them.

When it's an actual guild doing the pushing, they have different reasons. Some hate low interval caps but started doing it in response to guilds on other factions who were regularly capping during the day. It was normal for a while for prime time to begin with an EP emp and 4-6x EP scrolls, so some AD used that as justification to night cap.

The players who join in after come from all sides. I see many notable EP and DC players on AD when it is rolling the map. When it's EP or DC, I see players who typically play for AD switch. Whatever the impetus of the push is, it's never only "faction loyalists."

It's not just about map play. Players of all kinds use unlocked factions to take the path of least resistance. The more small group players there are farming randoms in any given area, the more spread out the randoms will be, and the easier the hunting will be. Despite the current freedom to play for any faction, I never see EP small groups switch to their AD characters to fight the abundance of other EP small groups on.

Regardless of what ZOS does or how the introduction of faction locks plays out, personally, I'd like to see all guilds take some ownership of our community by playing less the role of wolves and more the role of shepherds. Disorganized randoms can't regulate their collective behavior, but organized groups can. This goes for groups of all sizes. Don't cap scrolls just because you can. Don't emp just because you can. Don't completely dominate against randoms just because you can. Play down to your competition at times and help your inexperienced teammates out more. Grow the game through good sportsmanship.

No, you have consistently made snarky comments at me and have made unnecessary assumptions and have pulled out conclusions from my points which do not exist.

I have not said that all faction loyalists enjoy stacking. I have said that they deserve their options, as do the players who don't want to stick to faction loyalty. I'm not shaming any alliance for their map actions, I have stated that as well. I am pointing out that this fluctuates between factions. The nights that factions aren't getting gated, I see everyone on their main alliance and we fight and the PvP is great.

How about ZoS fix the map issues during the off-hours and oceanic, and then we bring in locks? Why not find solutions to actual problems in PvP before we push locks?

I also agree that there are differing viewpoints about this whole thing.

But you are wrong in saying that the guilds pushing oceanic on Vivec PC/NA right now are not faction loyal, because they are. They specifically play AD and have for a long time now. And you're also wrong in saying that AD have not dominated oceanic for awhile now, they have. At least the past 8-9 months, with an exclusion of a campaign cycle in which EP did dominate (in which I hopped from AD to DC almost every single night depending on the map) so excuse me for being off by a couple of months. I don't see you fighting them every night, do you?

I also acknowledged that there are negative faction hoppers as well who just want easy PvDoor AP. This, however, is a direct result at the absurd amount of AP you earn from PvDooring. It should not be this way. There should be an adjustment to how much AP taking a keep gains you, in my opinion.

I would gladly get on AD and go fight EP and DC, but in the time period I play there are way too many AD on to do so, and they're pushing the other factions to their gates and there's just no finding quality fights, and it serves the map (and myself for quality of fights) better to go and fight AD and DC/EP (depending if one or the other is pushing the weaker faction as well).

I see both sides of things, and I would like to see a middle ground and decent compromise on the lock system. I find the total lock unfair to players who are not just interested in PvDoor AP and want to swap around and PvP. And while I am hopeful that people will spread to the other campaigns during "primetime", their habits won't die and I doubt they will. This, therefore, concerns me for the oceanic play period.

Elong

Here's a solution to make Faction Loyalty actually worth something on a computer game.

Actually reward it.

Remember when we used to get Master Weapons for being in the top 2% ? Bring it back. Bring back a reason to actually stay playing for your faction for 30 days.

I will tell you now, the main reason this all started is because there was simply no reward for staying on one toon longer than getting your T3 reward. There still isn't. The gold drops from the top 2% are RNG based, and quite frankly, awful.

I had another idea, instead of largely outdated Master Weapons, make a new set of weapons specific to PVP, with a 2 pc bonus on them that has "Adds 10% Damage to other players". That number could be altered, that's not important, I'm not a dev, but it's a reason to actually be in the campaign for it's duration. You could call them "Daggerfall's Greatsword" or "The Ebonheart Ice Staff" to promote the idea that you earned it for your faction.

The reason computer games are played, is to have fun, or to complete, or to compete. When a game doesn't offer those factors, people look for their own completion, competition and fun. Add content ZOS, add a reason to be loyal, not a lock and a barrier.

DisgracefulMind

Elong wrote: »

Here's a solution to make Faction Loyalty actually worth something on a computer game.

Actually reward it.

Remember when we used to get Master Weapons for being in the top 2% ? Bring it back. Bring back a reason to actually stay playing for your faction for 30 days.

I will tell you now, the main reason this all started is because there was simply no reward for staying on one toon longer than getting your T3 reward. There still isn't. The gold drops from the top 2% are RNG based, and quite frankly, awful.

I had another idea, instead of largely outdated Master Weapons, make a new set of weapons specific to PVP, with a 2 pc bonus on them that has "Adds 10% Damage to other players". That number could be altered, that's not important, I'm not a dev, but it's a reason to actually be in the campaign for it's duration. You could call them "Daggerfall's Greatsword" or "The Ebonheart Ice Staff" to promote the idea that you earned it for your faction.

The reason computer games are played, is to have fun, or to complete, or to compete. When a game doesn't offer those factors, people look for their own completion, competition and fun. Add content ZOS, add a reason to be loyal, not a lock and a barrier.

I think fixing rewards would help encourage a lot more than just faction loyalty; they would help encourage new people to come into PvP which would, therefore, hopefully put more of a balance in the map out there.

When Master weapons dropped we were still able to use the soft lock when we wanted, which normally happened in off-hours when the map was a disaster, but we all did pick a "main" alliance and stuck to it. So while this won't fix our oceanic population issues, maybe it would attract more people so we could maybe then try to fix some of the imbalance issues?

I still think that we need to specifically just have a soft lock if we're going to lock anything. Make it so you don't earn rewards on another faction. The people who want to swap for quality fights and to help the underdog will still do so, and we would see less of the "swapping for AP and tier 3" that people highly dislike. I think that would be a win-win for both sides of the argument.

ShenaniganSquad

I dont want to post this same post in every thread on this so I will just post link.. this could be a solution maybe?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466683/free-for-all-pvp-area-without-objectives#latest

Elong

ShenaniganSquad wrote: »

I dont want to post this same post in every thread on this so I will just post link.. this could be a solution maybe?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466683/free-for-all-pvp-area-without-objectives#latest

It's a nice idea but it will just spread an already small population further.