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magnb and reflective skills
Noctus
✭✭✭✭✭
magnb has a true problem especially with dk reflect spamming.
what could be done is buffing reflective scales (number of hits and uptime) but allowing players to hit when in melee range with the staff.
another solution is ofcourse skill rework for magnb.
as it stands now crushing shock is NOT a counter it is what magblades are reduced to in a combat to deal dmg.
if this gets fixed i dont need any buff for my class or anything. im fine with magblades but the dmg mitigation and reflects against magblades is insane.
u rly shouldnt lack offensively as a light armor user. that rly kills of the class. reflective scales is basically an "i win" button and i do notice that myself when i play my dragonknight against magicka users and especially against magblades.
what could be done is buffing reflective scales (number of hits and uptime) but allowing players to hit when in melee range with the staff.
another solution is ofcourse skill rework for magnb.
as it stands now crushing shock is NOT a counter it is what magblades are reduced to in a combat to deal dmg.
if this gets fixed i dont need any buff for my class or anything. im fine with magblades but the dmg mitigation and reflects against magblades is insane.
u rly shouldnt lack offensively as a light armor user. that rly kills of the class. reflective scales is basically an "i win" button and i do notice that myself when i play my dragonknight against magicka users and especially against magblades.
13
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Sypherioth✭✭✭Don't hit the DK...
Also 4 projectiles. Count and make use of it. Wear that wings out faster then the DK expects. Just don't expect to solo one easily.
Edited by Sypherioth on March 24, 2019 6:24AM3 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Don't hit the DK...
Also 4 projectiles. Count and make use of it. Wear that wings out faster then the DK expects.
u see there is a reason its banned to use against magblades in duell tournaments.... the dk will make a mess out of u while u counting ur projectiles
10 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think not. You'll get the hang of wings eventually, trust me.
There's no real getting the hang of it. If you're a magblade you just learn not to engage any dk who might have wings. People say that you should just slot force pulse, but that adds a second spammable to a bar that might already have two (ele weapon for it's burst potential), so it's not really a solution.Edited by ecru on March 24, 2019 6:58AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer5 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭magnb has a true problem especially with dk reflect spamming.
what could be done is buffing reflective scales (number of hits and uptime) but allowing players to hit when in melee range with the staff.
another solution is ofcourse skill rework for magnb.
as it stands now crushing shock is NOT a counter it is what magblades are reduced to in a combat to deal dmg.
if this gets fixed i dont need any buff for my class or anything. im fine with magblades but the dmg mitigation and reflects against magblades is insane.
u rly shouldnt lack offensively as a light armor user. that rly kills of the class. reflective scales is basically an "i win" button and i do notice that myself when i play my dragonknight against magicka users and especially against magblades.
To be honest, as a DK main, I'd be fine with that. I feel the entire DK class has this same problem. A few aspects of it are a little too strong, but they're set up in such a way that nerfing them will make them useless.
CC is another big problem for this reason, DK's CC is incredibly strong and easy to apply, but it needs to be in order for magDK's combo to work. Flame Lash is reliant on CC in order to get the Power Lash proc, so there needs to be several forms of CC built into the kit to ensure that Power Lash can be proc'd more or less on demand.
I wouldn't mind wings having a range limit (so long as it's reasonable for the DK), if the cap was either made per-person or completely removed. For the same reason, I wouldn't mind Fossilize losing the root, if Power Lash was reworked to maybe scale its damage based on the amount of dot's applied to the target.Cripple and its morphs should not be reflectable.
Yep, no clue why Cripple is reflectable, because it doesn't even look like a projectile to me.Sypherioth wrote: »Don't hit the DK...
Also 4 projectiles. Count and make use of it. Wear that wings out faster then the DK expects.
u see there is a reason its banned to use against magblades in duell tournaments.... the dk will make a mess out of u while u counting ur projectiles
There's also a reason why the game isn't balance around dueling. If we were to balance the game around dueling, everything would be fantastic in 1v1, but in larger scale fights everything would basically be useless. Wings already is when you have multiple opponents (though I think you know, since you play DK).
There can be some things that would help, like the range limit, or reducing the projectile cap and making it per-person, but at the end of the day, players are going to have to decide what is and isn't allowed to be used.2 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭magnb has a true problem especially with dk reflect spamming.
what could be done is buffing reflective scales (number of hits and uptime) but allowing players to hit when in melee range with the staff.
another solution is ofcourse skill rework for magnb.
as it stands now crushing shock is NOT a counter it is what magblades are reduced to in a combat to deal dmg.
if this gets fixed i dont need any buff for my class or anything. im fine with magblades but the dmg mitigation and reflects against magblades is insane.
u rly shouldnt lack offensively as a light armor user. that rly kills of the class. reflective scales is basically an "i win" button and i do notice that myself when i play my dragonknight against magicka users and especially against magblades.
To be honest, as a DK main, I'd be fine with that. I feel the entire DK class has this same problem. A few aspects of it are a little too strong, but they're set up in such a way that nerfing them will make them useless.
CC is another big problem for this reason, DK's CC is incredibly strong and easy to apply, but it needs to be in order for magDK's combo to work. Flame Lash is reliant on CC in order to get the Power Lash proc, so there needs to be several forms of CC built into the kit to ensure that Power Lash can be proc'd more or less on demand.
I wouldn't mind wings having a range limit (so long as it's reasonable for the DK), if the cap was either made per-person or completely removed. For the same reason, I wouldn't mind Fossilize losing the root, if Power Lash was reworked to maybe scale its damage based on the amount of dot's applied to the target.Cripple and its morphs should not be reflectable.
Yep, no clue why Cripple is reflectable, because it doesn't even look like a projectile to me.Sypherioth wrote: »Don't hit the DK...
Also 4 projectiles. Count and make use of it. Wear that wings out faster then the DK expects.
u see there is a reason its banned to use against magblades in duell tournaments.... the dk will make a mess out of u while u counting ur projectiles
There's also a reason why the game isn't balance around dueling. If we were to balance the game around dueling, everything would be fantastic in 1v1, but in larger scale fights everything would basically be useless. Wings already is when you have multiple opponents (though I think you know, since you play DK).
There can be some things that would help, like the range limit, or reducing the projectile cap and making it per-person, but at the end of the day, players are going to have to decide what is and isn't allowed to be used.
i guess buffing that skill to 10 projectiles (12 seconds duration ?) while making attacks from melee range go through is fair enough that way u will have protection against snipers and force them to come melee range.
yes a further nerf of that skill would be bad so it needs rework on magblade side or a change in concept while keeping the skill intact for its purpose which is protecting u from distance attacks.
this way both classes win.Edited by Noctus on March 24, 2019 7:15AM0 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"15 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"
Tried it, but didn't like it on magblade. I prefer the extra sustain from having swallow soul slotted, and I need that extra HoT it provides as well.
Fighting a DK is an actual nightmare, and typically something I avoid. It usually ends up in a 15 minute fight of me casting buffs and waiting for wings to expire, fearing and trying to get that burst combo in. But then they end up getting a fat heal from embers or coag and we're back to square one.
I'm fine with classes having counters, like DK vs Templar (purge), but it's kind of ridiculous when everything you have is a slow moving projectile against a class that can reflect everything.
Personally I don't think swallow soul should be reflectable. It's more of a beam as you siphon the life force from its target. Cripple also isn't a projectile, because it moves across the ground. Merciless, fair enough, but can we at least speed it up. Not only do enemies get a good indication of when it's up thanks to the loud audio, but it travels through the air in slow motion.5 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"
Tried it, but didn't like it on magblade. I prefer the extra sustain from having swallow soul slotted, and I need that extra HoT it provides as well.
Fighting a DK is an actual nightmare, and typically something I avoid. It usually ends up in a 15 minute fight of me casting buffs and waiting for wings to expire, fearing and trying to get that burst combo in. But then they end up getting a fat heal from embers or coag and we're back to square one.
I'm fine with classes having counters, like DK vs Templar (purge), but it's kind of ridiculous when everything you have is a slow moving projectile against a class that can reflect everything.
Personally I don't think swallow soul should be reflectable. It's more of a beam as you siphon the life force from its target. Cripple also isn't a projectile, because it moves across the ground. Merciless, fair enough, but can we at least speed it up. Not only do enemies get a good indication of when it's up thanks to the loud audio, but it travels through the air in slow motion.
I main magnb and forcepulse is horrible. Ruins class synnergy to deal with 1 op overloaded skill. I mean who cares if cripple goes through wings if it breaks the cc. Sad how the "my house" class has more mobility than the "elusive assassin"1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"
Tried it, but didn't like it on magblade. I prefer the extra sustain from having swallow soul slotted, and I need that extra HoT it provides as well.
Fighting a DK is an actual nightmare, and typically something I avoid. It usually ends up in a 15 minute fight of me casting buffs and waiting for wings to expire, fearing and trying to get that burst combo in. But then they end up getting a fat heal from embers or coag and we're back to square one.
I'm fine with classes having counters, like DK vs Templar (purge), but it's kind of ridiculous when everything you have is a slow moving projectile against a class that can reflect everything.
Personally I don't think swallow soul should be reflectable. It's more of a beam as you siphon the life force from its target. Cripple also isn't a projectile, because it moves across the ground. Merciless, fair enough, but can we at least speed it up. Not only do enemies get a good indication of when it's up thanks to the loud audio, but it travels through the air in slow motion.
I main magnb and forcepulse is horrible. Ruins class synnergy to deal with 1 op overloaded skill. I mean who cares if cripple goes through wings if it breaks the cc. Sad how the "my house" class has more mobility than the "elusive assassin"
But we've got mobility. Just slot the widely used double take and concealed weapon for extra speed while cloaked
I've been mulling over sucking it up and going vamp just for elusive mist, but then I remember most magicka players are running inferno staves, DKs would one shot me with a ferocious leap, and dawnbreakers are everywhere.3 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"
Tried it, but didn't like it on magblade. I prefer the extra sustain from having swallow soul slotted, and I need that extra HoT it provides as well.
Fighting a DK is an actual nightmare, and typically something I avoid. It usually ends up in a 15 minute fight of me casting buffs and waiting for wings to expire, fearing and trying to get that burst combo in. But then they end up getting a fat heal from embers or coag and we're back to square one.
I'm fine with classes having counters, like DK vs Templar (purge), but it's kind of ridiculous when everything you have is a slow moving projectile against a class that can reflect everything.
Personally I don't think swallow soul should be reflectable. It's more of a beam as you siphon the life force from its target. Cripple also isn't a projectile, because it moves across the ground. Merciless, fair enough, but can we at least speed it up. Not only do enemies get a good indication of when it's up thanks to the loud audio, but it travels through the air in slow motion.
I main magnb and forcepulse is horrible. Ruins class synnergy to deal with 1 op overloaded skill. I mean who cares if cripple goes through wings if it breaks the cc. Sad how the "my house" class has more mobility than the "elusive assassin"
But we've got mobility. Just slot the widely used double take and concealed weapon for extra speed while cloaked
I've been mulling over sucking it up and going vamp just for elusive mist, but then I remember most magicka players are running inferno staves, DKs would one shot me with a ferocious leap, and dawnbreakers are everywhere.
Yeah mist is just not an option, only melee 2h. But at that point you miss the sexy weave damage and the hot so you need to find more damage and more heals with no bar space.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"
Tried it, but didn't like it on magblade. I prefer the extra sustain from having swallow soul slotted, and I need that extra HoT it provides as well.
Fighting a DK is an actual nightmare, and typically something I avoid. It usually ends up in a 15 minute fight of me casting buffs and waiting for wings to expire, fearing and trying to get that burst combo in. But then they end up getting a fat heal from embers or coag and we're back to square one.
I'm fine with classes having counters, like DK vs Templar (purge), but it's kind of ridiculous when everything you have is a slow moving projectile against a class that can reflect everything.
Personally I don't think swallow soul should be reflectable. It's more of a beam as you siphon the life force from its target. Cripple also isn't a projectile, because it moves across the ground. Merciless, fair enough, but can we at least speed it up. Not only do enemies get a good indication of when it's up thanks to the loud audio, but it travels through the air in slow motion.
I main magnb and forcepulse is horrible. Ruins class synnergy to deal with 1 op overloaded skill. I mean who cares if cripple goes through wings if it breaks the cc. Sad how the "my house" class has more mobility than the "elusive assassin"
But we've got mobility. Just slot the widely used double take and concealed weapon for extra speed while cloaked
I've been mulling over sucking it up and going vamp just for elusive mist, but then I remember most magicka players are running inferno staves, DKs would one shot me with a ferocious leap, and dawnbreakers are everywhere.
Yeah mist is just not an option, only melee 2h. But at that point you miss the sexy weave damage and the hot so you need to find more damage and more heals with no bar space.
Yeah, 2h crossed my mind also. If I did that I'd probably do some disgusting Caluurion's build as I'm not sure what else could be viable.
I'd really like it if they added snare removal/immunity to double take. Would sort out a lot of issues magblades have with snares.1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wings works the way it does due to DK lack of mobility built into the class.
But these unreflectable buffs to cripple and strife are absurd. You already get just by slotying either one of those skills:
3% increased healing
8% increased max magicka
20 ultimate for drinking a potion
2 ultimate every 4 seconds while using the ability in combat
Let’s just make it unreflectable too while we’re at it. That’s ridiculous. Both of those skills are long range spammables with one of them being a root followed by a snare. Both strife and cripple are overturned due to their passives.
Wing are integral to a DK defense just like shields are for sorcery and Cloak and Shade are for Nightblades.
Folks need to learn how to play around wings even in Seducer + Lich it’s imposdible to keep wings up 100% of the time. You just gotta play around it.
All these nerfs are getting out of hand. Mag nightblade with a ranged build is strong against every other spec in the game that’s pretty balanced considering no other mag ranged class is as strong against other as many other specs as magblade is
Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on March 24, 2019 12:10PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak7 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Aaand yet another bias filled post. If your DK can't sustain wings against a target that has no possibility to apply any consistent counter pressure, then you might want to rethink your build.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Wings works the way it does due to DK lack of mobility built into the class.
But these unreflectable buffs to cripple and strife are absurd. You already get just by slotying either one of those skills:
3% increased healing
8% increased max magicka
20 ultimate for drinking a potion
2 ultimate every 4 seconds while using the ability in combat
Let’s just make it unreflectable too while we’re at it. That’s ridiculous. Both of those skills are long range spammables with one of them being a root followed by a snare. Both strife and cripple are overturned due to their passives.
Wing are integral to a DK defense just like shields are for sorcery and Cloak and Shade are for Nightblades.
Folks need to learn how to play around wings even in Seducer + Lich it’s imposdible to keep wings up 100% of the time. You just gotta play around it.
All these nerfs are getting out of hand. Mag nightblade with a ranged build is strong against every other spec in the game that’s pretty balanced considering no other mag ranged class is as strong against other as many other specs as magblade is12 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Aaand yet another bias filled post. If your DK can't sustain wings against a target that has no possibility to apply any consistent counter pressure, then you might want to rethink your build.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Wings works the way it does due to DK lack of mobility built into the class.
But these unreflectable buffs to cripple and strife are absurd. You already get just by slotying either one of those skills:
3% increased healing
8% increased max magicka
20 ultimate for drinking a potion
2 ultimate every 4 seconds while using the ability in combat
Let’s just make it unreflectable too while we’re at it. That’s ridiculous. Both of those skills are long range spammables with one of them being a root followed by a snare. Both strife and cripple are overturned due to their passives.
Wing are integral to a DK defense just like shields are for sorcery and Cloak and Shade are for Nightblades.
Folks need to learn how to play around wings even in Seducer + Lich it’s imposdible to keep wings up 100% of the time. You just gotta play around it.
All these nerfs are getting out of hand. Mag nightblade with a ranged build is strong against every other spec in the game that’s pretty balanced considering no other mag ranged class is as strong against other as many other specs as magblade is
You can keep thinking that, doesn’t make it true.
I play both MagDK and Magblade, magblade is much stonger. It’s a better solo class, has higher damage, higher mobility, cheaper skills, better escape potential, cheap high burst ultimate, etc. it’s far easier to kill people on a magblade than it is in a MagDK
MagDK is much harder to play solo open world if you think it’s so strong go try it.
Wings hardly reflects anything now. Folks are taking us down a road of all damage being unavoidable except by nightblade cloakwhich is ****** gameplay.
If you want to change wings so bad why do t we remove dot suppression and miss chance from cloak and make dots break it. Cloak negates all Mag DK DOTS and that’s somehow balanced?
I think things should just be left alone both classes have strong points DK with tankyness and nightblade with high burst and mobility/escape it’s not as bad as folks are making it out to be.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak6 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Cripple should NOT be reflectable, agreed. Nor should Swallow/Funnel though - it is a projectile but it originates from the target; the essence is pulled OUT of them not thrown at them.Edited by Solariken on March 24, 2019 12:47PM9 -
Fiktius✭✭✭✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"
Not to mention that some builds does not have space for that skill at first place.
Magblades already suffered from healing ward nerf, so there goes my additional flexible spot at ability bar which I used to have: Now there is extra heal skill slotted, so I can stay alive in solo play.
These days if I find myself fighting against DKs (often BGs are filled with multiple of them), I very often block right away since 99% of the times projectiles are coming right back to me. I try to send 4 weaker projectiles and never fire assassin's will bow before that, but even then that's risky if DK refresh wings right away when 4 projectiles reflections have been used.
I also agree that some kind of adjustments would be needed, but I wouldn't touch the function of wings themselves.
To me range should not make any difference and wings could remain untouched. I would suggest tweaking the NB tool kit instead and make at least Cripple no longer could be reflected. Perhaps Swallow soul could get the same treatment.1 -
Datthaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Wings works the way it does due to DK lack of mobility built into the class.
But these unreflectable buffs to cripple and strife are absurd. You already get just by slotying either one of those skills:
3% increased healing
8% increased max magicka
20 ultimate for drinking a potion
2 ultimate every 4 seconds while using the ability in combat
Let’s just make it unreflectable too while we’re at it. That’s ridiculous. Both of those skills are long range spammables with one of them being a root followed by a snare. Both strife and cripple are overturned due to their passives.
Wing are integral to a DK defense just like shields are for sorcery and Cloak and Shade are for Nightblades.
Folks need to learn how to play around wings even in Seducer + Lich it’s imposdible to keep wings up 100% of the time. You just gotta play around it.
All these nerfs are getting out of hand. Mag nightblade with a ranged build is strong against every other spec in the game that’s pretty balanced considering no other mag ranged class is as strong against other as many other specs as magblade is
Ook so you say "wings work the way it does due to dk lack of mobility build into the class" that argument was very thin to begin with, now it holds no water at all since wings is a snare removal.
Edit: and if magnb is so strong atm take one into cyro and then come back here and tell us how it wentEdited by Datthaw on March 24, 2019 1:12PM6 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cripple should NOT be reflectable, agreed. Nor should Swallow/Funnel though - it is a projectile but it originates from the target; the essence is pulled OUT of them not thrown at them.
There's actually an initial projectile that you throw toward the target. Try it yourself, cast it against a dummy, and you'll see an initial projectile between the return projectile.0 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭TBH having either swallow soul or cripple being unreflectable in their current state would be too strong given their high range, damage and functionality. I totally agree though that magblades need one skill that is treated as damage from "inside" of enemies, such as PotL, curse, ... What I'd like to see lorewise is to have one funnel health morph be close ranged with less damage, maybe 10-15 meters, but granting higher healing over time and treated as described above. You risk the close quaters playstyle, in turn we get back our missing selfhealing and sustained damage we can spamm against rolling, blocking and reflecting/absorbing targets.0
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
Aaand yet another bias filled post. If your DK can't sustain wings against a target that has no possibility to apply any consistent counter pressure, then you might want to rethink your build.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Wings works the way it does due to DK lack of mobility built into the class.
But these unreflectable buffs to cripple and strife are absurd. You already get just by slotying either one of those skills:
3% increased healing
8% increased max magicka
20 ultimate for drinking a potion
2 ultimate every 4 seconds while using the ability in combat
Let’s just make it unreflectable too while we’re at it. That’s ridiculous. Both of those skills are long range spammables with one of them being a root followed by a snare. Both strife and cripple are overturned due to their passives.
Wing are integral to a DK defense just like shields are for sorcery and Cloak and Shade are for Nightblades.
Folks need to learn how to play around wings even in Seducer + Lich it’s imposdible to keep wings up 100% of the time. You just gotta play around it.
All these nerfs are getting out of hand. Mag nightblade with a ranged build is strong against every other spec in the game that’s pretty balanced considering no other mag ranged class is as strong against other as many other specs as magblade is
You can keep thinking that, doesn’t make it true.
I play both MagDK and Magblade, magblade is much stonger. It’s a better solo class, has higher damage, higher mobility, cheaper skills, better escape potential, cheap high burst ultimate, etc. it’s far easier to kill people on a magblade than it is in a MagDK
MagDK is much harder to play solo open world if you think it’s so strong go try it.
Wings hardly reflects anything now. Folks are taking us down a road of all damage being unavoidable except by nightblade cloakwhich is ****** gameplay.
If you want to change wings so bad why do t we remove dot suppression and miss chance from cloak and make dots break it. Cloak negates all Mag DK DOTS and that’s somehow balanced?
I think things should just be left alone both classes have strong points DK with tankyness and nightblade with high burst and mobility/escape it’s not as bad as folks are making it out to be.
I stopped reading after you wrote that magblade has better mobilty than magdk.....lmao8 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭People who say "just slot force pulse" need to go back under the rock they came from. In no way is spamming 1 skill why still hammering youself with light attacks, your busrt, and your dot pressure is going to take down a dk.
Just stop with the "wHy DoNt YoU uSe fOrCE PuLSe"
Tried it, but didn't like it on magblade. I prefer the extra sustain from having swallow soul slotted, and I need that extra HoT it provides as well.
Fighting a DK is an actual nightmare, and typically something I avoid. It usually ends up in a 15 minute fight of me casting buffs and waiting for wings to expire, fearing and trying to get that burst combo in. But then they end up getting a fat heal from embers or coag and we're back to square one.
I'm fine with classes having counters, like DK vs Templar (purge), but it's kind of ridiculous when everything you have is a slow moving projectile against a class that can reflect everything.
Personally I don't think swallow soul should be reflectable. It's more of a beam as you siphon the life force from its target. Cripple also isn't a projectile, because it moves across the ground. Merciless, fair enough, but can we at least speed it up. Not only do enemies get a good indication of when it's up thanks to the loud audio, but it travels through the air in slow motion.
I main magnb and forcepulse is horrible. Ruins class synnergy to deal with 1 op overloaded skill. I mean who cares if cripple goes through wings if it breaks the cc. Sad how the "my house" class has more mobility than the "elusive assassin"
But we've got mobility. Just slot the widely used double take and concealed weapon for extra speed while cloaked
I've been mulling over sucking it up and going vamp just for elusive mist, but then I remember most magicka players are running inferno staves, DKs would one shot me with a ferocious leap, and dawnbreakers are everywhere.
Going vamp forces you to crutch on Mist and Cloak because everything kills you. If you can get shadow image to actually cast, or if you can get Temporal Guard/Precognition to actually cast reliably then maybe you can crutch on those. But with vamp IMO unlike magplar/magden you just don't have the defenses to use it and get hit by anything.
As far as Wings go, I think buffing them for group play and nerfing them in 1v1 can be accomplished. Greater than 8m reflects all, and less than 8m reflects 2 projectiles would be one thing. At melee then it'd cover a weave and skill at least. Clearly that particular idea is not balanced itself but the general idea of making wings better against a mass of ranged frags/snipe spammers but less polarized in duels would be good. Also would open up that counterplay to counters a bit, by forcing you opponents into your melee range..... Doesn't make it better against melee stamina tho.
That said it already at least does what it says every time you cast the skill which is nice. Even against 48 light attacks spammed your way it will reflect 4 XD.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that being a magblade against a magdk in a 1v1 is very frustrating in Terms of being able to win the fight. However nerfing wings isnt the solution for me. One class defense having to suffer because one Sub class is disadvantaged doesnt seem right to me. Rather having one Morph that is not reflectable seems like a better solution to me. The Question for that solution that Comes to mind is how would you make both Morphs valuable or if you would just make one the pvp Morph and one the pve Morph.
Also About that magblade has more or less mobility than magdk discussion, against anything that is not a dk magblade has an easy time to maintain a high uptime of Major Expedition but for me the magblade "mobility" is the ability to reset or completely disengage 1v1s or bigger fights at will with shadow Image and cloak. You wont do the same on a magdk even with all that glorious mobility it apparently has.
So wings open world or anywhere outside of duels is rather a stalemate than an instant win button, for it to be instant win it would require you to not use your class abilities and just mindlessly spam bow procs in the dks face.
(I also find it strange that in duel Tournament rules and threads like These no one compains About shimmering Shield, which negates more ranged Damage, even force pulse, is infinitely sustainable on stam and magden and gives one of the strongest buffs in the game but i disgress)Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TBH having either swallow soul or cripple being unreflectable in their current state would be too strong given their high range, damage and functionality. I totally agree though that magblades need one skill that is treated as damage from "inside" of enemies, such as PotL, curse, ... What I'd like to see lorewise is to have one funnel health morph be close ranged with less damage, maybe 10-15 meters, but granting higher healing over time and treated as described above. You risk the close quaters playstyle, in turn we get back our missing selfhealing and sustained damage we can spamm against rolling, blocking and reflecting/absorbing targets.
I'm usually close range anyway because of fear, and the fact that I have trouble killing anything without the old soul harvest+bow proc combo. So I feel like I'm getting the risk without the reward.
It's just so demoralising seeing wings and knowing there's not a lot you can do about it, unless they are a really bad player. Sorcs had the exact same problem, so they made force pulse unreflectable, even though they can blast people with 10k undodgeable, unreflectable, unblockable curses. Meanwhile magblades spammable AND burst option can both be reflected, blocked, dodged. To top that off they have some of the worst mobility out of all the classes.
I'm not saying they are in a really bad spot, but they could certainly use some quality of life improvements as other classes have seen.4 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭TBH having either swallow soul or cripple being unreflectable in their current state would be too strong given their high range, damage and functionality. I totally agree though that magblades need one skill that is treated as damage from "inside" of enemies, such as PotL, curse, ... What I'd like to see lorewise is to have one funnel health morph be close ranged with less damage, maybe 10-15 meters, but granting higher healing over time and treated as described above. You risk the close quaters playstyle, in turn we get back our missing selfhealing and sustained damage we can spamm against rolling, blocking and reflecting/absorbing targets.
I'm usually close range anyway because of fear, and the fact that I have trouble killing anything without the old soul harvest+bow proc combo. So I feel like I'm getting the risk without the reward.
It's just so demoralising seeing wings and knowing there's not a lot you can do about it, unless they are a really bad player. Sorcs had the exact same problem, so they made force pulse unreflectable, even though they can blast people with 10k undodgeable, unreflectable, unblockable curses. Meanwhile magblades spammable AND burst option can both be reflected, blocked, dodged. To top that off they have some of the worst mobility out of all the classes.
I'm not saying they are in a really bad spot, but they could certainly use some quality of life improvements as other classes have seen.
I'm totally with you as a fellow magblade. I'm just saying you can just make a few skills unreflectable since magblade will easily become subpar again. I want more self sustaining damage and less insta burst playstyles, and chaning swallow to become close ranged with reliable damage/healing would fit really nicely. Gankblades will use conceiled anyways0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cripple being able to go through reflect would be balanced.
DKs would be able to remove the root/snare applied by the skill via Wings but the DoT would remain.
The few other reflect skills might slightly feel the change but ultimately it would improve a class that needs help right now and provide realistic counterplay.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Couple things I’ve been thinking about that would balance magblade:
- cripple going through reflections
- concealed blade adding a hot
- Dark cloak snare removal
Think that’s all it would take. Reflections forcing people into melee is fine, but magblades need something to help keep them alive in melee.
There are some melee magblades but in general the spec is weak. When I think of a nightblade the melee option should be a lot stronger.Edited by Iskiab on March 24, 2019 5:10PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten3
