Please nerf cloak so that everyone has fewer feel bad moments

Iskiab

Yea, except stamblades are weak in pvp as soon as you add a healer or organized group.

thankyourat

I think the reason most people hate Cloak is because some nightblades Cloak after every one or two abilities making the fight pointless because no one is going to die. This is also annoying because a nightblade playing like this will never kill you because they aren't applying any real pressure but they'll continually attack you which is very annoying. It's like a bug that keeps flying around your face and no matter how many times you swat it away it just keeps coming back. A incap or snipe while outnumbered is also annoying. Nightblades are just overall annoying.

Bergzorn

thankyourat wrote: »

It's like a bug that keeps flying around your face and no matter how many times you swat it away it just keeps coming back.

And when you eventually DO manage to hit it, congratulations, you now have an icky goo stain on your desk/wall/forehead.

Nerf pls.

Metemsycosis

brandonv516 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Yes I main nightblades.

My opinion: if you are already invisible, it should cost more to stay invisible. But if your cloak is broken or you let the cloak expire, recasting costs the original amount.

Now mageblades have more to build for to keep up cloak and

Stamblades will have more of challenge to sit in cloak till they're at full health again.

Both can continue using the 100% critical modifier

Makes no sense though. So if I want to refresh Cloak while I'm already in it, you want it to cost more? You're already penalized for spamming it.

Apply that same logic to anything else (Major Expedition, Purge, Shields, etc.) and explain why the suggestion above is fair and this is not.

What's the penalty for spamming cloak?

ETA:
The defensive power of cloak becomes greater the more you are actually invisible. If you dont see me you can't hurt me unless you get lucky with a flare or caltrops. 100 percent damage mitigation. If i spam cloak to escape this is especially true.

Sypherioth

Are people realy complaining about cloak still?? Wtf...

Please nerf warden bomb combo because it kills me.
Please nerf snipe cause it kills me.
Please nerf total dark cause it kills me.
Please nerf bleed cause it kills me.
Please nerf spin2win cause it kills me.
Please nerf soul assault cause it kills me.
Please nerf ballista cause it kills me.
Please nerf destro staff aoe cause it kills me.
Please nerf wolf cause it kills me.

Anyone wanna add some?

Sypherioth

Metemsycosis wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Yes I main nightblades.

My opinion: if you are already invisible, it should cost more to stay invisible. But if your cloak is broken or you let the cloak expire, recasting costs the original amount.

Now mageblades have more to build for to keep up cloak and

Stamblades will have more of challenge to sit in cloak till they're at full health again.

Both can continue using the 100% critical modifier

Makes no sense though. So if I want to refresh Cloak while I'm already in it, you want it to cost more? You're already penalized for spamming it.

Apply that same logic to anything else (Major Expedition, Purge, Shields, etc.) and explain why the suggestion above is fair and this is not.

What's the penalty for spamming cloak?

ETA:
The defensive power of cloak becomes greater the more you are actually invisible. If you dont see me you can't hurt me unless you get lucky with a flare or caltrops. 100 percent damage mitigation. If i spam cloak to escape this is especially true.

Indeed and everyone has the counter for that. Also whenever the NB stays invisible it's good no? It means it doesn't do dmg... People never take anything into account anything when talking *** like this.

Cloak is like 4k magicka. It's realy short. Spamming cloak is great for magnb with great sustain otherwise cloak still need be used only when realy needed. otherwise you waisting very vauluable resources. This is even more true for stamina NB. Ye cloak is realy great unless you need spam 2-3 to actually get away… It's not even close to a 100% escape tool. Realy if you complain about cloak. Go play NB more...

Cloak is not 100% reliable anymore as it was in the past so cloak is far from OP. Just roll the dices..

Metemsycosis

You've read the snipe threads. A nightblade at range with perma cloak is invincible.

I.e., What's the counter to a cloak at range ?

Wait for them to show themselves. I.e , take damage. To be able to perma cloak ought to be more difficult than it is.

idk

Digiman wrote: »

idk wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

Nightblades right now are totally op when they run into people without any cloak counters (roughly 25% of Cyrodiil).

Not only is that a dangerous because the next step is we will nerf one of your skills just because we do not fell like doing whatever we need to do to mitigate or avoid the damage from it.

I love this because it was the same argument said about sorc shields and they nerfed those.... guess ZoS they are already planning it for elyswer lol

@Digiman

I love how you edited what you quoted as to take it out of context.

The interesting thing you conveniently left out was that this is about players choosing not to use any of the counters to cloak and that using that as an argument to nerf a skill is the slippery slope. There was and is no counter to sorc shields.

Now please edit quotes so the comment remains in context. Your comment makes no sense and seems to be grasping for straws when what you quoted is brought back into context.

Edit: So to recap, to refuse to do something is not a logical reason to nerf something else. It just does not make sense.

Noctus

if nb cloak gets nerf give magblade a skill that removes shields of enemys and debuff heals. cause we are pretty much defenseless and even lack the burst of other classes. might aswell delete magblade overall and allow players to only go stamblade.

darkblue5

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Read much?

It is still the correct answer. OP is doing nothing more than making an excuse for not using one. An excuse is a lame reason for nerfing a skill. Totally without logic.

So "read much" is rather pointless.

Are we talking about the same post? I read is as they want the, in their eyes, rather unrelianble and thus weak Cloak to be replaced by a viable defense mechanism.

My comment was pointless, I just got triggered a bit by the standard Cloak nerf request response, not even sure why.

This is much closer to my view than what about half the people responding think. Too many think I want Cloak nerfed to nerf nightblade. Rather I want a reliable and viable defense mechanism. Right now Cloak letting nightblade overperform against newbies is a large part of why other aspects of nightblades can't be buffed.

Just had an encounter on my magsorc that explains the issue. Was on PC NA Shor at FD Nik. Fighting with a group of solos most newbies with maybe a total of 3 decent to good players and maybe four cp 250 and under players. Nik was unflagged and a group of 3 nightblades including two players I know to be much better than me were fighting us. Three to Seven is bad odds but given that the lowbies died to LA SA and execute I'm pretty sure three wardens (two stam and one mag mirroring nightblade specs) played at the same level could have wiped us up. At least it would have been a real seeming fight,

Instead without even using my detect pots I'd run over the corpse of the lowbie that just got ganked, hit the nightblade with Boundless to knock them out of stealth, and my attacks plus the light attack spam of the lowbies would kill the nightblade. The spec had way more than sufficient damage for solo players sure, and yet couldn't burst my average magsorc play down. Thus couldn't remove the counter. Magsorc was my main for years PVE but I only recently started playing her in PvP. I am far from a magsorc PvP main as I'm downright mediocre to ok. Instead the side that would have lost to just as competently played wardens instead ended up trading a CP 200 burst down for a GO zerged down without a sweat repeatedly until reinforcements arrived and started to siege.

That's why Cloak needs fixes. That's what makes it so frustrating to play. That's what makes it so boring to play against. That's why groups of Nightblades need buffs even as the solo dueling spec is still a tournament topper. I don't want to either gank newbs or fight in dueling tournaments only to play close to optimally. I'd settle for nightblade being worse and being more fun to play sub-optimally. If I lost 50% more fights but my deaths were 25% less often frustrating cloak counter cheese I'd take it. As is Cloak doesn't let better players kill worse ones often enough, and the counters too often let worse players kill better ones.

Edit: Edited for emphasis

brandonv516

Metemsycosis wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Yes I main nightblades.

My opinion: if you are already invisible, it should cost more to stay invisible. But if your cloak is broken or you let the cloak expire, recasting costs the original amount.

Now mageblades have more to build for to keep up cloak and

Stamblades will have more of challenge to sit in cloak till they're at full health again.

Both can continue using the 100% critical modifier

Makes no sense though. So if I want to refresh Cloak while I'm already in it, you want it to cost more? You're already penalized for spamming it.

Apply that same logic to anything else (Major Expedition, Purge, Shields, etc.) and explain why the suggestion above is fair and this is not.

What's the penalty for spamming cloak?

ETA:
The defensive power of cloak becomes greater the more you are actually invisible. If you dont see me you can't hurt me unless you get lucky with a flare or caltrops. 100 percent damage mitigation. If i spam cloak to escape this is especially true.

The same penalty for spamming other skills when they haven't expired yet - wasting resources.

Your idea doesn't do anything except harm people who are already harming themselves. It does nothing for smart players like myself that Cloak again as soon it expires or I am revealed.

darkblue5

Noctus wrote: »

if nb cloak gets nerf give magblade a skill that removes shields of enemys and debuff heals. cause we are pretty much defenseless and even lack the burst of other classes. might aswell delete magblade overall and allow players to only go stamblade.

I mean I'd support buffing magblade without changing cloak at all don't get me wrong. I'm just not trying to come up with 100% the replacement for Cloak in this thread. Probably would be better to start a new thread for that.

TLDR: Magblade is in a terrible place as is and yes it'd need substantive buffs. I hear you.

idk

Metemsycosis wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Yes I main nightblades.

My opinion: if you are already invisible, it should cost more to stay invisible. But if your cloak is broken or you let the cloak expire, recasting costs the original amount.

Now mageblades have more to build for to keep up cloak and

Stamblades will have more of challenge to sit in cloak till they're at full health again.

Both can continue using the 100% critical modifier

Makes no sense though. So if I want to refresh Cloak while I'm already in it, you want it to cost more? You're already penalized for spamming it.

Apply that same logic to anything else (Major Expedition, Purge, Shields, etc.) and explain why the suggestion above is fair and this is not.

What's the penalty for spamming cloak?

ETA:
The defensive power of cloak becomes greater the more you are actually invisible. If you dont see me you can't hurt me unless you get lucky with a flare or caltrops. 100 percent damage mitigation. If i spam cloak to escape this is especially true.

There is something called a counter. Cloak has many counters.

Metemsycosis wrote: »

You've read the snipe threads. A nightblade at range with perma cloak is invincible.

I.e., What's the counter to a cloak at range ?

Wait for them to show themselves. I.e , take damage. To be able to perma cloak ought to be more difficult than it is.

Oddly enough, there is a ranged counter cloak available in the AvA skill lines. Revealing Flare is the name of the base skill.

Iskiab

Revealing flare? Meh... ice blockade works wonders. I think I kill gankers 10 times for every time one’s killed me.

Sun7dance

Metemsycosis wrote: »

What's the penalty for spamming cloak?

ETA:
The defensive power of cloak becomes greater the more you are actually invisible. If you dont see me you can't hurt me unless you get lucky with a flare or caltrops. 100 percent damage mitigation. If i spam cloak to escape this is especially true.

The penalty is, that you can't stay offensive anymore. So your opponent also gets the chance to heal himself. If you cast a shield instead, then you can at least stay a little more offensive and cast your combo in the right time for example. That's why health regeneration also is so strong. It runs passively in the background and helps you to stay offensive and that's really necessary, coz of all these heavy armor turtles.

HowlKimchi

I wasn't insulting you, just your opinion that you want a classic RPG archetype to die, just to buff a "class." What is a class anyway? Isn't it based on an RPG archetype? If you wanna buff the nightblade's defenses, it still has to be true to its archetype. You can't just remove cloak on an assassin/trickster archetype class.

idk

Sypherioth wrote: »

Are people realy complaining about cloak still?? Wtf...

Please nerf warden bomb combo because it kills me.
Please nerf snipe cause it kills me.
Please nerf total dark cause it kills me.
Please nerf bleed cause it kills me.
Please nerf spin2win cause it kills me.
Please nerf soul assault cause it kills me.
Please nerf ballista cause it kills me.
Please nerf destro staff aoe cause it kills me.
Please nerf wolf cause it kills me.

Anyone wanna add some?

Of course. It is easier than learning how to play against it. That is what most nerf threads are about.

darkblue5

HaruKamui wrote: »

I wasn't insulting you, just your opinion that you want a classic RPG archetype to die, just to buff a "class." What is a class anyway? Isn't it based on an RPG archetype? If you wanna buff the nightblade's defenses, it still has to be true to its archetype. You can't just remove cloak on an assassin/trickster archetype class.

I just don't see how you can possibly balance cloak play style and maybe if I'm serious about proposing a real change to Cloak I should make a forum post about "How do you solve a problem like Maria Dark Cloak's polarized and sometimes boring gameplay". Just don't know if I'll get honest responses based on actually reading what I and others have written. I just don't know if it'll be more than the four or so factions on this post talking past each other.

• Too many people who haven't read or understood the posts and say irrelevant things. Honestly most cases are probably in part my fault that my post wasn't clearer. It probably was also too long to expect people to actually read Some have persisted in their incorrect understandings of my posts because???
• Just hates Nightblades because of Cloak and wants Cloak nerfed because maybe valid reasons who knows, but isn't interested in actually discussing what's being discussed
• Anti-nerf faction full stop. Never have got it, nerfs are IMO almost universally better than buffs for long term game balance. For example I (probably controversially) believe that the Morrowind sustain nerfs were probably one of the best things to happen to ESO as far as game design goes even if it killed some great fun builds like Saptank
• People actually discussing the topic, and largely not agreeing with me. Keeping Cloak in some form seems more popular than giving up balancing Cloak and getting a more reliable defense. Probably for the same reason I fell in love with stamblade when I tried it as my entry to PvP

Metemsycosis

brandonv516 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Yes I main nightblades.

My opinion: if you are already invisible, it should cost more to stay invisible. But if your cloak is broken or you let the cloak expire, recasting costs the original amount.

Now mageblades have more to build for to keep up cloak and

Stamblades will have more of challenge to sit in cloak till they're at full health again.

Both can continue using the 100% critical modifier

Makes no sense though. So if I want to refresh Cloak while I'm already in it, you want it to cost more? You're already penalized for spamming it.

Apply that same logic to anything else (Major Expedition, Purge, Shields, etc.) and explain why the suggestion above is fair and this is not.

What's the penalty for spamming cloak?

ETA:
The defensive power of cloak becomes greater the more you are actually invisible. If you dont see me you can't hurt me unless you get lucky with a flare or caltrops. 100 percent damage mitigation. If i spam cloak to escape this is especially true.

The same penalty for spamming other skills when they haven't expired yet - wasting resources.

Your idea doesn't do anything except harm people who are already harming themselves. It does nothing for smart players like myself that Cloak again as soon it expires or I am revealed.

Ok. So you agree it's the same penalty for spamming. But are the abilities of equal value ?

There are many counters to cloak but it's still more powerful than purge and expedition though these both have powerful counters too.

Cloak and cloak alone can dang near ensure you will survive in cyrodiil. You get to choose by default when you engage a scenario or not.

There's not one other skill in the game that you could even attempt to make such a claim about, except for crouch.

To counter cloak at range you have to get lucky for scorching flare to land, so I don't see that as a viable counter.

Does major expedition make you invincible? Sure if you can los well enough or outsprint a mount.

Purify? Doesn't even stop direct damage.

***

So, obviously
I love cloak. I include something like it on every character, bc invisibility enables stealth and stealth is imo the number one way to survive in ow pvp. That's why I think it needs some form of cost adjustment so that its most powerful form (perma cloak) becomes too costly.

darkblue5

Playing Magblade rn shows how weak perma cloak is even at perpetual survival. If Undo/Shade worked reliably as well maybe they could supplement it and you could survive forever near enemies and never gain any AP or PvP. Standing out of stealth in a distant spot from any objective while AFK accomplishes the same thing.

Honestly if they could implement a way to award AP based on forcing a retreat that'd solve a lot of the frustrations with opponents you can't kill. The nightblade who cloaked away gave you AP. The ball zerg of healers you finally forced off a keep giving you AP? Well that would be swell. Sadly it'd likely be far too easy to abuse which honestly totally ruins the idea. That's well before the huge issues with determining who is retreating. Maybe should have lead with that, but if people weren't terrible and likely to boringly abuse a mechanic that rewards tactical victory it'd be a great idea.

ecru

I can easily one shot maybe 50% of players I encounter in BGs on my magblade due to cloak and other factors with gear bought from any guild store for a pretty small amount of gold with basically pve skills and cloak. I prime one ability, light attack, then use another, and they're greeted with a death recap. Would this still be possible without cloak? Probably. Would it happen nearly as often? Definitely not. I honestly feel kind of bad when it happens, and although impen will help you survive, if you're wearing light or medium armor with no impen and don't have health glyphs on, there's a very good chance I will global you from cloak. I'll still probably global you if everything crits even if you have impen and aren't wearing heavy or don't have an armor buff up.

No one likes dying like this. Is it fun for me? Yeah, for a bit. When I'm having a bad day in BGs or Cyrodiil on my other character I'll hop on my magblade and instagib a few people in a BG for funzies. Is it fun for other players? Well, no one has "fun" dying, but when you have no chance and really have no idea what happened, it isn't just not fun, it's likely to make you avoid pvp altogether.

I personally think this kind of gameplay creates a toxic pvp environment and it really just shouldn't be something that's possible at all in normal pvp situation where people are matched up somewhat equally. Not only can you not see me coming, you have no real defense because you die instantly, only seeing your opponent after you're dead. If I don't get good crits or you're tougher than I assumed, I don't suffer any penalties because I can just cloak away again. It's dumb and this kind of gameplay should go away forever.

Noctus

ecru wrote: »

I can easily one shot maybe 50% of players I encounter in BGs

u must have the lowest mmr on the server . highly skilled friends of mine cant even burst me down when i have divine light armor in pvp so yeh i dont think ur experience means anything. there are bad players and good players and we cant go with the worst if it comes to balancing. on high mmr i have like a 10 % (probably lower) chance on a rly good day to burst down anyone and the target has to be lightarmor for that to be a success.

im playing nightblade since 5 years now and from my experience if it comes to premade vs premade ur screwed anyway as magblade. if u can burst someone down depends on if the enemys dont have a healer or the enemy is to slow to react to u.

killingspreeb16_ESO

darkblue5 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

if nb cloak gets nerf give magblade a skill that removes shields of enemys and debuff heals. cause we are pretty much defenseless and even lack the burst of other classes. might aswell delete magblade overall and allow players to only go stamblade.

I mean I'd support buffing magblade without changing cloak at all don't get me wrong. I'm just not trying to come up with 100% the replacement for Cloak in this thread. Probably would be better to start a new thread for that.

TLDR: Magblade is in a terrible place as is and yes it'd need substantive buffs. I hear you.

But we don't need a replacemebt for cloak?

If i want to play without cloak i play another class(or the heal morph),cloak is fine what need to be balanced are the counter not the skill.

Things like revealing flare are a bad counter imo and then we have spin2win maybe combined with a slow and your cloak is close to be useless.

I just don't get the replacement argument...is just stupid,how about remove streak or wings?i mean i feel really bad playing my mageblade vs a magdk wing spammer so must be changed right?

Juhasow

I would preffer incap rebalance (nerf). Without current incap stealth playstyle would be fine excluding ofc braindead snipe spam which is getting addressed anyway..

WildWilbur

Interesting idea, OP. But way more original: Let's give cloak to all classes and remove stealth detect in any form. And than imagine the fun in Cyrodiil at prime time:
MARCO!... POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO!

darkblue5

WildWilbur wrote: »

Interesting idea, OP. But way more original: Let's give cloak to all classes and remove stealth detect in any form. And than imagine the fun in Cyrodiil at prime time:
MARCO!... POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO! POLO!

Not actually opposed. Then everyone would play against the Cloak counters and not just with them. Pretty similar to the current never say die healer ball groups.

ecru

Noctus wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I can easily one shot maybe 50% of players I encounter in BGs

u must have the lowest mmr on the server . highly skilled friends of mine cant even burst me down when i have divine light armor in pvp so yeh i dont think ur experience means anything. there are bad players and good players and we cant go with the worst if it comes to balancing. on high mmr i have like a 10 % (probably lower) chance on a rly good day to burst down anyone and the target has to be lightarmor for that to be a success.

im playing nightblade since 5 years now and from my experience if it comes to premade vs premade ur screwed anyway as magblade. if u can burst someone down depends on if the enemys dont have a healer or the enemy is to slow to react to u.

There isn't some sort of magical mitigation buff that MMR gives you which prevents you from dying in one gcd when you're wearing light armor, especially if it's divines. Unless you're stacking a ton of health you'd die just like everyone else, and that's the problem.

Noctus

ecru wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

I can easily one shot maybe 50% of players I encounter in BGs

u must have the lowest mmr on the server . highly skilled friends of mine cant even burst me down when i have divine light armor in pvp so yeh i dont think ur experience means anything. there are bad players and good players and we cant go with the worst if it comes to balancing. on high mmr i have like a 10 % (probably lower) chance on a rly good day to burst down anyone and the target has to be lightarmor for that to be a success.

im playing nightblade since 5 years now and from my experience if it comes to premade vs premade ur screwed anyway as magblade. if u can burst someone down depends on if the enemys dont have a healer or the enemy is to slow to react to u.

There isn't some sort of magical mitigation buff that MMR gives you which prevents you from dying in one gcd when you're wearing light armor, especially if it's divines. Unless you're stacking a ton of health you'd die just like everyone else, and that's the problem.

my point is ur fighting people that have no situational awareness run around in light with full divines no buff food spreading without healers nearby dont have buffs active. i wanna point out that even a healer of higher mmr would burst such people down.
which server are u ?

Ender1310

Are NBs dominating? Is so what? BGs? Duels? Group play? If so how? If not I don’t wanna hear “I couldn’t perform my combo on the NB and he got away wah wah”. Who cares. If your not complaining about getting beaten and your complaining cause a NB got away from you no sympathy is given.

Knootewoot

Give DK wings the same treatment as streak. They can reset a fight against ranged classes who don't want to slot force pulse comepletely by flapping and healing and still have all reources at full.