Please nerf cloak so that everyone has fewer feel bad moments

darkblue5

Nightblades right now are totally op when they run into people without any cloak counters (roughly 25% of Cyrodiil) and marginal to terrible against anyone even near someone with cloak counters (75% of Cyrodiil). Sure in those 75% cases you can gank a lowbie and run and play the very fun and engaging game of shade not working, undo not working, one of the 10 players' light attack spams breaking cloak because of lag, and so on. This is ignoring the people who dodge attacks from stealth and such not which I guess could be explained by lag weirdness or some sort of bug with stealth.

Some of the people reading this hate ganks, and I hate watching the one lowbie running less than 30k health in the last hour get immediately rezzed while I feel guilty for killing them. If someone is half competent they can't be ganked (baring lag weirdness). I've survived ganks more often than not on a light armor char in full divines with 11k resists. That should be a death sentence and it really isn't.

Nerfing cloak won't stop ganks because ganks are largely already dead. If a you can survive a gank on the least resistance based spec with no buffs up then ganks probably need to be buffed. But people hate being ganked and honestly even though I don't get it as death is free and someone is already rezzing you while the ganker draws 10 people spamming AOEs. Then they're dead or far gone. Just like the only person running less than the usual zergling health in the past hour who didn't dodge the gank from stealth from behind. Then didn't break free and heal at all. (Surprising numbers manage to dodge poison injections and flame reaches out of stealth from far behind. Maybe it is lag breaking or bugging stealth?)

Cloak counters are easy AP even on nightblades, I've killed much better players than me by slotting a stealth detect pot. They're even more effective on my stamsorc and my magsorc as I have AOE damage/armor buffs to supplement. Gank builds don't even let you kill people much worse than you, and cloak counters let you kill people much better. There's a reason so many longtime nightblade mains have gone to stamdens, and it isn't for the free beer. I mean free bear.

Nerf cloak so Nightblades can have some reliable survivability and some group support. Nerf Cloak so that we don't have to pretend our main survival tool isn't going to glitch in lag. Magblade has already been gutted so ZOS just has to gut the other as well. Then buff the utility and survivabilty which might even help PVE NB tanks and healers. Until then I'll be going for only the scummiest proc set ganks when playing NB because that's the only thing the class is good at. It gets the most rage, and it'll do the most to convince people that "Cloak is OP". Even if I have to wait 45 minutes for someone wearing full divines light armor to ride past and not break free immediately.

idk

darkblue5 wrote: »

Nightblades right now are totally op when they run into people without any cloak counters (roughly 25% of Cyrodiil).

Are you suggesting that because groups refuse to use cloak counters that cloak should be nerfed?

Not only is that a dangerous because the next step is we will nerf one of your skills just because we do not fell like doing whatever we need to do to mitigate or avoid the damage from it.

The logic is just not there to suggest that I refuse to do something so the game should be nerfed to my level.

That is exactly what I see in that post.

PS, cloak is not about ganking. If ganking is the second attempt to justify nerfing cloak then you need to add nerf medium armor, bow sets and much more. But at least this second justification is not because you refuse to use a counter.

brandonv516

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Bergzorn

brandonv516 wrote: »

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Read much?

brandonv516

Bergzorn wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Read much?

Don't need to. These threads are all the same.

Tirps

idk

Bergzorn wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Read much?

It is still the correct answer. OP is doing nothing more than making an excuse for not using one. An excuse is a lame reason for nerfing a skill. Totally without logic.

So "read much" is rather pointless.

Anyron

Cloak isnt issue when ganking.

Cloak is issue because you can heal while invisible. Low health (vigor+rally) and potion = when (if) your invisibility ends you are full health.

Normally this is ok. But when i found someone is trying to cloak i press detect potion with 12s duration with 45s cooldown. Burst nightblade with Swift build when rolling and then cloaking + breaking line-of-sight isnt something easy.

Mostly on ranged build this is problem.
(sorry for spam but this can explain problem more than other words )

Dodged,dodged,dodged,missed,missed,missed(running closer with detect potion up), dodged,dodged,dodged(end of detect potion)missed,missed

And detection potion is only REAL functional counter to cloak. Other detection skills isnt worth slotting.

Dojohoda

Apologies for not getting the complete idea behind the message, but I'm trying to figure out the request made in the post.

This is what I think OP is saying; I could be wrong:
1. This seems to be written from the perspective of a magblade who ganks.
2. OP seems to want to replace cloak with something to make nightblade more durable.
3. Cloak is easily broken by anyone with an aoe or a detect potion, so it's not worth much.

I pvp with magblade and, indeed, it is challenging and sometimes discouraging, but I don't want to get rid of cloak. My primary defense is the light armor shield and I run destro/destro. My sets are usually either sustain+damage or damage+damage. Typically no proc sets on the 5/5; the monster set could be a proc.

My style is to use cloak on the inferno staff bar to get in close for a soul harvest. Soul Harvest is best with cloak; without cloak it's kind of meh. I also use concealed weapon on the inferno bar to use against reflecting skills. I'm exposed when on the lightning staff bar using light-armor shield for defense

I use cloak as it was designed to be used (imo )
- to make a crit hit and to increase my damage on the hit
- to suppress a dot (I rarely use a resto staff. Sometimes I run purge, but it is expensive)
- to burn the enemy camp
- to escape (hahahahahahahaha a.k.a. die and rezzz "the 75%" )


Cloak is excellent for those points, even the last one if you can manage to do it. Shade helps when it works and if you have room on your skill bar.

If they removed cloak, they would not only need to offer us something for tankiness, we'd need something for damage as well. Don't forget that an attack "while sneaking or invisible" improves damage a little.

My position is that I want to keep cloak. Cloak is referred to an iconic nightblade skill and I think that is true. Nightblade is the sneaky class.

Aedrion

The only nerf cloak needs is either that it doesn't supress DoT's - but doesn't break stealth on DoT damage - or that you cannot heal while in cloak akin to Mist Form.

As pointed out an infinite amount of times here, the problem with cloak is the ability to reset a fight while mitigating ungodly amounts of damage.

Bergzorn

idk wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Read much?

It is still the correct answer. OP is doing nothing more than making an excuse for not using one. An excuse is a lame reason for nerfing a skill. Totally without logic.

So "read much" is rather pointless.

Are we talking about the same post? I read is as they want the, in their eyes, rather unrelianble and thus weak Cloak to be replaced by a viable defense mechanism.

My comment was pointless, I just got triggered a bit by the standard Cloak nerf request response, not even sure why.

Anyron

Dojohoda wrote: »

Apologies for not getting the complete idea behind the message, but I'm trying to figure out the request made in the post.

This is what I think OP is saying; I could be wrong:
1. This seems to be written from the perspective of a magblade who ganks.
2. OP seems to want to replace cloak with something to make nightblade more durable.
3. Cloak is easily broken by anyone with an aoe or a detect potion, so it's not worth much.

I pvp with magblade and, indeed, it is challenging and sometimes discouraging, but I don't want to get rid of cloak. My primary defense is the light armor shield and I run destro/destro. My sets are usually either sustain+damage or damage+damage. Typically no proc sets on the 5/5; the monster set could be a proc.

My style is to use cloak on the inferno staff bar to get in close for a soul harvest. Soul Harvest is best with cloak; without cloak it's kind of meh. I also use concealed weapon on the inferno bar to use against reflecting skills. I'm exposed when on the lightning staff bar using light-armor shield for defense

I use cloak as it was designed to be used (imo )
- to make a crit hit and to increase my damage on the hit
- to suppress a dot (I rarely use a resto staff. Sometimes I run purge, but it is expensive)
- to burn the enemy camp
- to escape (hahahahahahahaha a.k.a. die and rezzz "the 75%" )


Cloak is excellent for those points, even the last one if you can manage to do it. Shade helps when it works and if you have room on your skill bar.

If they removed cloak, they would not only need to offer us something for tankiness, we'd need something for damage as well. Don't forget that an attack "while sneaking or invisible" improves damage a little.

My position is that I want to keep cloak. Cloak is referred to an iconic nightblade skill and I think that is true. Nightblade is the sneaky class.

Sneaky.. With big 2h weapon

idk

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Read much?

It is still the correct answer. OP is doing nothing more than making an excuse for not using one. An excuse is a lame reason for nerfing a skill. Totally without logic.

So "read much" is rather pointless.

Are we talking about the same post? I read is as they want the, in their eyes, rather unrelianble and thus weak Cloak to be replaced by a viable defense mechanism.

My comment was pointless, I just got triggered a bit by the standard Cloak nerf request response, not even sure why.

Seems you did not read the entire OP.

OP makes it clear they are in the camp that does not use a counter to cloak which is why the opened up using that excuse and making a bold, yet very much unverified claim that most of the game refuses to use a counter.

That is their main point, making it clear where OP stands. The rest is filler and fluff in an attempt to make it look like they are thinking of the big picture, but clearly from a player who does not main an NB.

n the end, OP is merely part of the crew that refuses to use a counter to cloak and wants the game nerfed to their playstyle instead of improving theirs to the level of the game.

It really is that simple.

ezio45

didnt bother even reading all this

if anything cloak needs a buff, 3 secs is pathetic. you cant even bar swap in lag that fast.

Brrrofski

Haha, I love how nobody read anything OP said.

He's saying to nerf cloak for the GOOD of the class. High Stam regen, well fitted and cloak is basically your survival on a stamblade. Mageblade has a shield basically because cloak is god awful when you're snared for 95% of the time.

So OP want cloak to get nerfed so it forces ZOS to build more defence into the nightblade kit.

MajBludd

I've been playing Stam blade in under 50 pvp. Leveling it out for vet and the amount of skills that pull you out of cloak now is insane.

That along with all the roots and snares, what more do you need to negate cloak?

TriangularChicken

Agree, cloak needs a nerf, both stam and especially mag nb need a buff (for group play?).

One more thing: stealth/sneak in Cyro needs to be removed..it incentivizes zerging and avoiding fights.

Alucardo

Stealth in general sucks. Never liked it. There's nothing worse than seeing 1 person sneaking around, and when you approach to fight them, you see 10 others appear as you get closer who all jump you.
Or being able to disengage in a fight whenever you want to heal up or get some stamina back, while the other person is running around casting AOEs trying to find you. But thanks shadow image you're now behind a rock, healed up, full resources, ready to incap from cloak, giving you the advantage of the first attack like always. Not that you need it because you already have the highest single target damage in the game.

Still, I don't think it's possible to nerf and get rid of stealth/cloak. It's too deeply ingrained into the game. Do I wish it never existed? Hell yes I do.

Iskiab

Basicly OP is saying because NBs have cloak he’s being forced into ganking noobs because NB isn’t good at anything else.

Makes them uncompetitive at the higher end of pvp, and unfun for bads who don’t know how to counter it so run to the forum to complain.

I somewhat agree with the OP, but do you really think ZoS would be able to balance the class if it got nerfed? Every other ability has been reduced and nerfed with cloak in mind, it’d be a huge undertaking and not a change a couple of values thing.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

And....another nerf thread. Geez Louise ban the Nerfers!

darkblue5

idk wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Slot one of the various AoEs that tear NBs up in Cloak.

If that doesn't work return here and write an "I quit" thread.

Read much?

It is still the correct answer. OP is doing nothing more than making an excuse for not using one. An excuse is a lame reason for nerfing a skill. Totally without logic.

So "read much" is rather pointless.

Are we talking about the same post? I read is as they want the, in their eyes, rather unrelianble and thus weak Cloak to be replaced by a viable defense mechanism.

My comment was pointless, I just got triggered a bit by the standard Cloak nerf request response, not even sure why.

Seems you did not read the entire OP.

OP makes it clear they are in the camp that does not use a counter to cloak which is why the opened up using that excuse and making a bold, yet very much unverified claim that most of the game refuses to use a counter.

That is their main point, making it clear where OP stands. The rest is filler and fluff in an attempt to make it look like they are thinking of the big picture, but clearly from a player who does not main an NB.

n the end, OP is merely part of the crew that refuses to use a counter to cloak and wants the game nerfed to their playstyle instead of improving theirs to the level of the game.

It really is that simple.

I main nb
Edit: If you read you'd see I run detect pots.

aeden_0

Invisibility is a core mechanic of the class. You can’t take invisibility away (literally or by nerfing to irrelevance) without destroying the class identity, which is to deftly slip in and out of combat while unloading high bursts of damage.

Making nightblades a comparitively weak brawler class doesn’t improve the game. Many people enjoy the thief/assassin ambush playstyle which is why it exists in almost every fantasy or sci fi multiplayer game despite the balancing challenges.

Lucky28

Aedrion wrote: »

The only nerf cloak needs is either that it doesn't supress DoT's - but doesn't break stealth on DoT damage - or that you cannot heal while in cloak akin to Mist Form.

As pointed out an infinite amount of times here, the problem with cloak is the ability to reset a fight while mitigating ungodly amounts of damage.

it needs neither of those actually. Magblade has *** for heals, so they need to be in cloak to get any actual healing done. Nightblades are made of pure squish, so if Cloak didn't suppress dots they'd likely be even more evasive irritating people even more than they do currently.

the best thing to do would be to fix some of the counters to cloak making sure they actually work, because some (expert hunter) don't which is a problem, and see what that does.

gepe87

Cloak isn't main concern. NB's have a lot of debuffs and CCs provided by class skills that none of other classes have.

Iskiab

gepe87 wrote: »

Cloak isn't main concern. NB's have a lot of debuffs and CCs provided by class skills that none of other classes have.

What? What does NB have besides fear on one ability?

JTorus

aeden_0 wrote: »

Invisibility is a core mechanic of the class. You can’t take invisibility away (literally or by nerfing to irrelevance) without destroying the class identity, which is to deftly slip in and out of combat while unloading high bursts of damage.

Making nightblades a comparitively weak brawler class doesn’t improve the game. Many people enjoy the thief/assassin ambush playstyle which is why it exists in almost every fantasy or sci fi multiplayer game despite the balancing challenges.

Stealth and Illusion are quite literally written on the nightblade sigil. But you know, it's likely less about Nightblades and their cloak, and more about PTSD from some sort of childhood trauma involving sinister trickery....

HowlKimchi

Brrrofski wrote: »

Haha, I love how nobody read anything OP said.

He's saying to nerf cloak for the GOOD of the class. High Stam regen, well fitted and cloak is basically your survival on a stamblade. Mageblade has a shield basically because cloak is god awful when you're snared for 95% of the time.

So OP want cloak to get nerfed so it forces ZOS to build more defence into the nightblade kit.

Still no. It's part of the nightblade's class identitiy. I'd rather the mageblade kit get buffed without losing its identity.

StormeReigns

Unpopular opinion here.

Though I do dislike NBs all around; Stamblades / Magblades / Hybidblades (mainly cause I lack the mental competence to play them at an average level).

Cloak feels fine... Possibly even a buff (for stam builds).

TheBonesXXX

Nerf threads are bad.

Most people here never nightbladed before, I use invis pots on my non NB toons and still get the desired misdirection in order to fight.

Going invisible to heal is a gamble, not being able to counter cloak is your fault.

Nightblade is a magician, blood mage, and assassin all rolled into one. One element of Nightblade is the deliberate use of misdirection to trick your perception.

For example, I cloak and immediately run around my enemy or through them while they pop detect pot, giving it the appearance the detect pot didn't work.

It's not the case, controlling the fight is the objective. Well placed fear traps, objects, los and routes give me the edge.

I think it's fair, since NBs are squishy turds.

Also if you're a mag blade, curse Eater on the body is wonderful.

Xvorg

Iskiab wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Cloak isn't main concern. NB's have a lot of debuffs and CCs provided by class skills that none of other classes have.

What? What does NB have besides fear on one ability?

just the best ulti which increase dmg of the comming attacks and Major defile on top of that. Cloak is not the problem, incap is too good.

Besides that, well, Cripple is an inmo + snare, Veiled Strike has a stun from invis, Lotus apply a snare, Mark Target gives you major breach and major fracture and shades give minor maim

Kulvar

Healers right now are totally op when they run into people without any Major Defile (roughly 25% of Cyrodiil)

Crit Damage right now are totally op when they run into people without enough Crit Resistance (roughly 25% of Cyrodiil)

Resistance right now are totally op when they run into people without enough Penetration (roughly 25% of Cyrodiil)