LeifErickson wrote: »
I have no idea how detrimental I would be against a Decibel group, but I will take your word for it. The point I was trying to make is someone who has never 1vxed before can't just go out into Cyro and be successful at 1vx. I never ball grouped before and yet our group never lost a fight. While yes I may have been carried, someone who goes out to 1vx doesn't even get that luxury.
You said you see me the same as someone crying for nerfs yet all I did was disagree with you that 1vx and rapids role require the same skill. I'm sorry that my different opinion makes you feel that way.
I guess I didn't do a good enough job to try to change your mind with that statement (or Yiko) but you didn't for me either. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.
#rapidsiseasy
#onebuttonspammer
You missed:
Proper use of LoS
Proper use of defense mechanisms
Proper use of heals
Arguable some of the most important things to 1vX, your comment was a blatant Texas sharpshooter.
As for the person who analogized vma and Vet trials to solo play and group play, I can’t even justify that with a response. You can’t compare PvE mechanics and PvP mechanics, period.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Proper use of LoS - both
Proper use of defense mechanisms - both
Proper use of heals - both
anything else? @templesus
You missed:
Proper use of LoS
Proper use of defense mechanisms
Proper use of heals
Arguable some of the most important things to 1vX, your comment was a blatant Texas sharpshooter.
As for the person who analogized vma and Vet trials to solo play and group play, I can’t even justify that with a response. You can’t compare PvE mechanics and PvP mechanics, period.
Yiko I don't know what you want from me. I have never mentioned that running a stam support role in a medium to large group was more skilful than 1vxing. I have always given credit to any playstyle.
Just saying “both” doesn’t illustrate how in depth it has to be used. If I have a dedicated healer spamming springs and BoL with healing ults I don’t have to worry about healing myself anywhere near as much as I would solo. Same with LoS. Same with overall defense mechanisms of dodge roll, block, shield etc. Theyre used significantly less in organized groups then 1vX, and that’s speaking from experience.
TL;DR - 1vX requires much more skill then group play. I have videos of 1vX and have videos from when I ran with the best guild on PS4 before it disbanded as proof, would be interested to see videos of the people claiming group play is easier 1vXing.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Dodge roll - extremely important in group play, not only for avoiding damage but also preemptively mitigating it, as is blocking and shielding (stam supports often used bone shield too).
Healing - Stam heals are the only heals which work when negated other than ongoing hots. So its important to be smart in groups too regarding healing, sure you have healers but you are also taking way more damage to go along with this.
Not to mention that use of such mechanics in order to protect the others in the raid (for example when you have defensives up body blocking your allies)
I can't comment on your PS4 raids ability but I think the fact they disbanded is enough proof for me, generally when raids disband its because their environment isn't healthy. feel free to post the videos if you want my opinion on it.
Meh, ZOS removed my comment where I said that you didn't substantiate your claims and didn't respond to a relevant thought/question. I was questioning your downplaying of a couple other 1vX players' and my experience (or lack-thereof) in 24 mans and the implications that it somehow negated our capability of having a reasonable enough opinion or understanding of a Stam support character's role in a 24 man, to the point where we weren't qualified to say that it takes less skill than 1vX gameplay. Basically, in response to "You have never done this (or done it well), so you cannot understand it," I tried to make the argument that we could understand it well enough to say that 1vX is harder, and I wanted your opinion on that. However, you've since seemed to demonstrate that you're of the opinion that successful high level 1vX is harder than playing the Stamina support role, so I don't think that I want anything from you anymore.
1-4vXing by definition means that you do an effort to get away from your faction to get your own fights.
Same for both. Comment #69Secondly, while I agree that a stam support is the easiest role I have played so far in such group
It feels like necromancer is bout to have some snare removal built into it
Either way, the circumstances that made rapids necessary are the real problem. Shouldn't have to dedicate a player or 2 just to make sure you can move.
ONE patch of bombard spam and I ragequit the game for six months, I can't imagine what it feels like now lol
It feels like necromancer is bout to have some snare removal built into it
No lol it disbanded because 80% of the people playing the game quit. This is one of our longest fights I could find from an old guildy (quit the game lmfao) the majority of the players in our guild were duelers/solo/small scale players that got together because we were tired of always getting zerged down.https://youtu.be/PFvFKFWL8V8
We didn’t have any rapids spammers btw. Our support consisted of a talons/igneous spamming dk(4-5k igneous for group on cast) several stamplars in werewolf hide tavas and bloodspawn pumping healing ults, and negate stam sorcs.
Downplayed 1vX players' experiences in 24 mans* (not the players themselves), and sure. All from that very same #69 post.I will say it again. Don't ask me a question regarding something you can't quote.
Please direct me to the post where I downgraded such 1vX player and then we can continue this conversation.
You never backed up your "declare with certainty that they know exactly how an organized group runs" by the way.. "First of all" in this format demonstrates an abruptness or beginning in line of thought, which in a circumstance like this usually indicates finding fault with something preceding it.I have been following this thread without saying anything so far but I gotta step in at this point. I have seen alot of people assume and declare with certainty that they know exactly how an organized group runs and what a stam support should accomplish in such group.
When they got asked what kind of experience they had, they simply said that they ran once with a ballgroup and got a ton of kills easy mode (being carried or not). Some of them even went all in and described what is a stamina support role for them.
First of all, it does not mean that you played once or twice or 10times in a ballgroup, got easy wins everytime, but then tried to 1vX and died very quickly that one is easier than the other. It's a question of how you challenge yourself and who you are fighting exactly.
Your comparaison and experience in a ballgroup has no impact in this thread.
Before assuming make sure that you have experienced and challenged yourself against real opponents.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Edit:
@Yiko SNARE/ROOT REMOVAL, the differences between resource management in a group and resource management solo
I mean we're discussing stam support right? snare root removal was kind of its primary goal, Resource management for a stam char solo? you mean heavy attack and burst windows vs constant pressure on your resources as a full support role with active management and a little bit of assistance from orbs in raid?
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
@TBois abort abort lol
Btw I once 1v10'd some random players on NA at 350 cp. 1vX is easy confirmed.
I understand your perspective a bit more, but this isnt a high level raid in my mind. Maybe @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO thinks otherwise?
Joy_Division wrote: »
You don;t think that you being in the top 5% of all PvPers playing in one of the strongest guilds in the game at that time had anything to do with your experience that night in VE?
I think if you joined a more middling guild, I won't call any out specifically but I'm confident you can find one, you'll find your group PvP experience *dramatically* different. I suspect you will spend a lot of time being one of the last ones alive, getting chased by 30+ reds, looking for a place to put down a camp.
*****
If playing in a group was so easy, why are so many of them, to put it kindly, inconsistent? Why are so many players, to be frank, extraordinarily average at it? The fact of the matter is there is a very discernible tiers of skill among the PC NA guilds and a higher tier guild will 99% of the time beat a lower tier one, often suffering zero deaths. That can only be the case if these fights were decided by the very thing many of the people who dislike groups continuously downplay or outright deny exist: discernible skillful play in groups.
You missed:
Proper use of LoS
Proper use of defense mechanisms
Proper use of heals
Arguable some of the most important things to 1vX, your comment was a blatant Texas sharpshooter.
As for the person who analogized vma and Vet trials to solo play and group play, I can’t even justify that with a response. You can’t compare PvE mechanics and PvP mechanics, period.
LeifErickson wrote: »And @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO I don't think you have said that you think group play is on par with 1vx specifically but your replies make me think you do feel this way. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if you do and all you need is to strengthen your combo timing and enemy strength assessment (not really even sure what this means as a lot of solo specs don't really get to choose who they fight), why not actually start going out and 1vxing and see how you still feel about it. A 1vxer can't really put together another 15 people all in min maxed builds and start grouping together instantly but a group player can start 1vxing instantly as all they need is themselves. Go out and 1vx and see what you think.
Downplayed 1vX players' experiences in 24 mans* (not the players themselves), and sure. All from that very same #69 post. You never backed up your "declare with certainty that they know exactly how an organized group runs" by the way.. "First of all" in this format demonstrates an abruptness or beginning in line of thought, which in a circumstance like this usually indicates finding fault with something preceding it.
Your comparaison and experience in a ballgroup has no impact in this thread.
Before assuming make sure that you have experienced and challenged yourself against real opponents.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
@templesus
I think this video quite aptly shows the difference in my mind between perspectives of a good raid vs someone who hasn't experienced a good raid .
That isn't to say that you can't have fun in such raids but its comparing completely different things.
Watching the video the first death occurs on an almost uncontested flag to an NPC negate and blazing shield templar who admittedly was emp for the first 2m of the clip so did provide some extra challenge for your group.
(I appreciate it isn't you recording) but I'm sorry to say it doesn't get much better in my eyes. Your group outnumbers the enemies there for the majority if not all of the video.
Its very clear to me that you don't have people playing group roles there based on the performance of the group and if you did and understood these group roles you would have not only secured the tick for yourselves but also cleaned up the keep and the blue raid most likely.
Equally this might be good performance for the PS4 platform, i'd have to watch other PS4 gameplay to find out
No lol it disbanded because 80% of the people playing the game quit. This is one of our longest fights I could find from an old guildy (quit the game lmfao) the majority of the players in our guild were duelers/solo/small scale players that got together because we were tired of always getting zerged down.https://youtu.be/PFvFKFWL8V8
We didn’t have any rapids spammers btw. Our support consisted of a talons/igneous spamming dk(4-5k igneous for group on cast) several stamplars in werewolf hide tavas and bloodspawn pumping healing ults, and negate stam sorcs.
The minute you stop relying on your own skill to survive and secure kills is when group play becomes easier then 1vX. It’s not hard really, if I have a 1v4 and I add one more person on my side of roughly equivalent skill level, I now have to tank 50% of the damage, do 50% of the damage, and account for 50% of the healing (theoretically, of course it doesn’t always happen exactly to those thresholds). Exponentially that percentage becomes less and less. Thus my previous comment stands.
I will restate it, saying things like “high-level group play requires more skill then 1vX” is a pure opinion that results in a net loss of credibility on the speakers end.
You never pointed me out to this quote specifically. You generalized and said I straight downgraded 1vXers which I never did. Now I don't wanna point out names specifically because some people would see that as naming and shaming. Simply put, some people claimed that playing in an organized group is easy mode because they played once in a group. Then I proceeded and explained that those groups used to barely to not say never leave their front lines to challenge themselves deep in enemy territory. Really simple stuff. I'm sure you would have understood reading it twice.
Followed immediately and ironically by the condescending:Then I proceeded and explained that those groups used to barely to not say never leave their front lines to challenge themselves deep in enemy territory.
It actually can be hard to understand you when you're typing such incoherent thoughts. I realize that this is going to go nowhere at this point, so this is regrettably where we must part ways.Really simple stuff. I'm sure you would have understood reading it twice.
I didn't think that I needed to remind you specifically of what you had said that was relevant. Anyways, you're still failing to grasp the distinction between "downgrading" 1vXers and "downplaying 1vXers' experiences to the point that any opinion they hold of group play is without merit."
Then you hit me with this line: Followed immediately and ironically by the condescending: It actually can be hard to understand you when you're typing such incoherent thoughts. I realize that this is going to go nowhere at this point, so this is regrettably where we must part ways.