Now we are talking some sense, and we have stopped bashing the others for playing a different role than we do.
I have played multiple roles in this game too, and some were dramatically easier than others.
I spent a year and change in various ball group guilds where I played various roles at a time.
Ranging from healing, stamina support through rapids, negate, encase
Glass cannon dps via magicka nightblade bombing
I became heavily invested in NA's dueling scene.
I shifted more towards solo/small scale PvP on various classes, specs, sizes ranging from 1 to 4.
Recently I became involved in small to medium scale PvP where the numbers we fight are equal to and in many cases greater than what these 16 man guilds provide footage of fighting.
There are aspects of this game that are easier in this game than others. To equate stamina support for a 16+ sized group to solo/small scale PvP in difficulty is laughable to say the least.
Stamina Support is there to provide mobility to your group, negate/ulting with group and possibly rooting clumps if you chose to run encase.
To do this you have to be able to do the following:
-Stay within your group to make sure everybody received your rapids buff and that you would receive as much healing as possible from your group.
-Manage your resources to make sure you always had stamina to rapids when your group needed.
-Hold your negate for when your raid lead called for it.
All of these are very simple to accomplish. You don't need to build anything but sustain and durability on top of stamina sorcerer having access to dark deal which makes sustain even easier for this scenario. You should never run out of stamina.
Holding ultimate and staying inside your group is self explanatory for how easy it is to do.
Solo PvP has many more intervals to take into account. (And I don't count killing 3 lvl 35s and CP 200's to count as solo PvP)
-The individual has to properly build their character to be able to respond to any situation that may come up. This includes building some form of mobility, having proper sustain for long fights where 1 or more healers may be involved. Build enough damage to kill any spec that encounters them while also not being too squishy. Note this is just talking about building for solo PvP.
-The individual has to know what each and every skill in the game does, how to counter each class,
- how to line of sight
- how to manage resources
- how to heal themselves efficiently.
Note all of this is provided ONLY by the individual, they do not have other players to support them.
That statement is simply laughable. If solo were so easy you'd see many ball group players engaging in it instead of front line zerging until their group logs on so they can front line zerg with each other.
I mean it’s hard to believe someone could say something that outrageous.
But then again it isn’t. Sometimes i forget this is the forums. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, however comments like the one you made cause your opinion to not hold any weight by a lot of people.
Playing in a group period is already exponentially easier than 1vXing regardless of your role.
Sandman929 wrote: »
It's a lot easier if you're in a large group seeking the same fights as you would in a small group. That's not the point of a large organized group, even though some seem to do that. Is 16 v 10 easier than 5 v 10? Yes. 16 v 40 isn't so easy, and 5 v 40, the 5 have to run away.
Your comparaison and experience in a ballgroup has no impact in this thread. People are exclusively talking about the most challenging fight where it's your group of 8-16 against 4 if not 5times your numbers and your faction out of reach.
You are making an objectively nonsense statement. Every single issue faced by someone playing solo scales up to group play, and in fact group players have even more to worry about than solo/someVxers.
What exactly does a solo person have to worry about? Survival, being outnumbered, bursting down opponents, kiting off an appropriate number of players they can actually handle, etc. Literally 100% of that is also a challenge for group players, only with a group you not only have to play well with yourself, you have to read the state of combat for dozens of other people and work cohesively with them to accomplish all of the above. THEN you also have to worry about map objective goals like taking keeps, which is something that isn't even on the table for "solo" players.
What about solo play is actually harder? The fact that it's easier to get outnumbered? Nope. Even a whole faction stack has to worry about going up against two other faction stacks in the worst case scenario. There is no such thing as equal numbers. Is it that you have no-one else to rely on? No, because that's actually easier as you only have to track your own combat status, while group players need to keep track of both themselves and their responsibility to others. Also I've yet to see anyone actually play solo. There are someVxers, and there are gankers who rely on large raid groups to distract their targets, and that's about it.
When it comes down to it, high-level solo play falls precipitously far behind the skill curve needed to do high-level group play. The mind games just aren't at the same tier.
Off-topic, but I am genuinely interested in seeing the 16v64-80's that people are talking about as being a scenario that happens.
Off-topic, but I am genuinely interested in seeing the 16v64-80's that people are talking about as being a scenario that happens.
I think the only scenario I've seen that even remotely resembles a fight like that is the one from your stream from a while back against AotP.
In something like this video https://youtube.com/watch?v=lq4GAlETlSA&t=109s, I paused and counted and the numbers from AotP never exceeded 30 on screen (and they were pretty well grouped)
I think this is the clip
- First full-force engagement I counted 31-33 EP @ 0:05
- Second push by your group I counted somewhere around 40 EP, probably 45
- From 1:23 to 1:44 I counted somewhere from 44-50 enemies, although it was hard to tally due to the movement
I don't think I've seen more than a handful of clips where people are fighting legitimately more than 50 people. Fighting 50 is quite a feat for any group (especially <=16), but I haven't seen any actual 80 enemy engagements (but there is truly an issue with necro-rezzing as well as having multiple groups of 24 throughout a keep etc.)
Note: I am in no way saying any of these fights are unimpressive. I am questioning how people perceive the quantity of opponents they are fighting. I am also a culprit: sometimes I feel like I am fighting 10 people alone when it's 3-6
Off-topic, but I am genuinely interested in seeing the 16v64-80's that people are talking about as being a scenario that happens.
I think the only scenario I've seen that even remotely resembles a fight like that is the one from your stream from a while back against AotP.
In something like this video https://youtube.com/watch?v=lq4GAlETlSA&t=109s, I paused and counted and the numbers from AotP never exceeded 30 on screen (and they were pretty well grouped)
I think this is the clip
- First full-force engagement I counted 31-33 EP @ 0:05
- Second push by your group I counted somewhere around 40 EP, probably 45
- From 1:23 to 1:44 I counted somewhere from 44-50 enemies, although it was hard to tally due to the movement
I don't think I've seen more than a handful of clips where people are fighting legitimately more than 50 people. Fighting 50 is quite a feat for any group (especially <=16), but I haven't seen any actual 80 enemy engagements (but there is truly an issue with necro-rezzing as well as having multiple groups of 24 throughout a keep etc.)
Note: I am in no way saying any of these fights are unimpressive. I am questioning how people perceive the quantity of opponents they are fighting. I am also a culprit: sometimes I feel like I am fighting 10 people alone when it's 3-6
The minute you stop relying on your own skill to survive and secure kills is when group play becomes easier then 1vX. It’s not hard really, if I have a 1v4 and I add one more person on my side of roughly equivalent skill level, I now have to tank 50% of the damage, do 50% of the damage, and account for 50% of the healing (theoretically, of course it doesn’t always happen exactly to those thresholds). Exponentially that percentage becomes less and less. Thus my previous comment stands.
I will restate it, saying things like “high-level group play requires more skill then 1vX” is a pure opinion that results in a net loss of credibility on the speakers end.
the point was not that people that play support in organized raids (or any other role) need to git gud tho
The point is that the snare/root meta sucks, so welcome to the pit with everybody else untill it changes. Even tho im pretty sure the best grps will adapt especially after siege dmg goes back to normal values
the point was not that people that play support in organized raids (or any other role) need to git gud tho
The point is that the snare/root meta sucks, so welcome to the pit with everybody else untill it changes. Even tho im pretty sure the best grps will adapt especially after siege dmg goes back to normal values
I think we can all agree that the snare/root meta is utter garbage outside of BGs
A lot of people declaring with certainty that they know exactly how an organized group runs? Please point out where.I have been following this thread without saying anything so far but I gotta step in at this point. I have seen alot of people assume and declare with certainty that they know exactly how an organized group runs and what a stam support should accomplish in such group.
Before assuming make sure that you have experienced and challenged yourself against real opponents.
You are making an objectively nonsense statement. Every single issue faced by someone playing solo scales up to group play, and in fact group players have even more to worry about than solo/someVxers.
When it comes down to it, high-level solo play falls precipitously far behind the skill curve needed to do high-level group play. The mind games just aren't at the same tier.
A lot of people declaring with certainty that they know exactly how an organized group runs? Please point out where.
That would be even more excellent advice to the people claiming that Stamina support in ball groups is as skillful, or even more skillful, as successfully 1vXing at a high level.
I feel like asking people who religiously play self-reliantly and have to carry their own weight solo (implying damage, heals, and utility) to require actual experience in a 24-man in order to understand carrying the weight of a ROLE (damage, heals, or utility) is fundamentally different than asking someone who only knows carrying the weight of their role to require solo experience to understand what it is to be self-reliant. One group will be able to transition much more easily than another.
One group will be gaining support, and another group will be losing support. I do not-so-solemnly apologize for trying to imagine how my gameplay experience might change if I had others to support me in healing and utility roles, whose functions I had to personally attend to previously.
Can you really make the argument that it would be just as easy for a Stamina support player to transition to a successful 1vX player as it would for a 1vX player to transition to a Stamina support player? I highly doubt it, for obvious reasons.
Truly, this is art.
Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares
Can you really make the argument that it would be just as easy for a Stamina support player to transition to a successful 1vX player as it would for a 1vX player to transition to a Stamina support player? I highly doubt it, for obvious reasons.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Lets consider what skills are important for each role.
Assessment of enemy strength. - Mainly 1vX although this comes into factor with Stam support too (for how much support vs other skills are required and when ulti is required etc)
Combo timing - Mainly 1vX
Raid awareness - Only raid
Supporting allies - raid skill
peeling damage - raid skill
group communication - raid skill
Cancelling and weaving - both
Map knowledge - both
Resource management - Both
Buff upkeep - both
Situational awareness - both
enemy prediction - both
what do you consider i've missed? now if a raid player can learn combo timing and a better level of enemy strength assessment (if they aren't necessarily using this during raids) do you think that is easier compared to learning raid awareness, how to correctly support allies, how to correctly peel damage and CC's and how to communicate within the group?
Granted players in raids can play without some of these skills but these raids are never as successful similar to how some people could try and 1vX but struggle in most situations