Organized Raids This Patch

Irylia

Has anyone seen any since rapids nerf? If so how hilarious has it been to watch them move amidst the time stops/roots?

The age of siege and dragon disruptor are upon us.

Ahtu

I saw a small ball group near Chal Gate last night. They almost looked like the other PUGs in the area. Their Eye of Storms were easily avoidable without much effort now that they can be slowed.

Irylia

:thumbs up:
That’s what we like to see
Maybe more tactics and guild separation/multiple attacks will come from it.

Gankimus

Irylia wrote: »

:thumbs up:
That’s what we like to see
Maybe more tactics and guild separation/multiple attacks will come from it.

Savvy raid leaders will send out multiple purpose driven teams to set themselves up for the strikes they want to make. Clever use of misdirection and suppression of enemy logistics will be key to success in the current defender friendly META. In my view... today... ask me again tomorrow...

frostz417

Irylia wrote: »

Has anyone seen any since rapids nerf? If so how hilarious has it been to watch them move amidst the time stops/roots?

The age of siege and dragon disruptor are upon us.

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

CyrusArya

frostz417 wrote: »

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

Welcome to Murkmire for everybody else. I love how the arguement raid style players make is that “oh no now we have to individually build for and actually invest into mobility”

Like that’s the point. I’m sure the actually good guilds will adapt. But it is so entitled to think one playstyle should be allowed to operate under a different rule set and standards than literally everybody else.

frostz417

CyrusArya wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

Welcome to Murkmire for everybody else. I love how the arguement raid style players make is that “oh no now we have to individually build for and actually invest into mobility”

Like that’s the point. I’m sure the actually good guilds will adapt. But it is so entitled to think one playstyle should be allowed to operate under a different rule set and standards than literally everybody else.

I think movement should be reworked completely. You’re right... ball groups will now suffer what EVERYONE has to suffer. And that is zos’s laziness and refusal to adddress the ridiculous snare and root meta. Now this patch we will all equally endure the sheer horror of how stupidly broken snares and roots are.

Sandman929

CyrusArya wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

Welcome to Murkmire for everybody else. I love how the arguement raid style players make is that “oh no now we have to individually build for and actually invest into mobility”

Like that’s the point. I’m sure the actually good guilds will adapt. But it is so entitled to think one playstyle should be allowed to operate under a different rule set and standards than literally everybody else.

There wasn't a different rule set or standard, they just used a group utility skill that was available and cooperated as a group, and now they'll find other ways.

Minno

frostz417 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

Welcome to Murkmire for everybody else. I love how the arguement raid style players make is that “oh no now we have to individually build for and actually invest into mobility”

Like that’s the point. I’m sure the actually good guilds will adapt. But it is so entitled to think one playstyle should be allowed to operate under a different rule set and standards than literally everybody else.

I think movement should be reworked completely. You’re right... ball groups will now suffer what EVERYONE has to suffer. And that is zos’s laziness and refusal to adddress the ridiculous snare and root meta. Now this patch we will all equally endure the sheer horror of how stupidly broken snares and roots are.

After the nerf to speed and nerfs to both rapids and rouge pots, we aren't going to see any changes to snares/speed in the way you are hoping.

You will need to adapt now.

Zelos

I see plenty, the day of 1vXing is far gone. People are just filing up in zergs and running others down, while causing the very lag they so hate. Its pathetic.

Minno

Zelos wrote: »

I see plenty, the day of 1vXing is far gone. People are just filing up in zergs and running others down, while causing the very lag they so hate. Its pathetic.

at least the siege last night killed enough for it to be slightly laggy lol.

Gankimus

Zelos wrote: »

I see plenty, the day of 1vXing is far gone. People are just filing up in zergs and running others down, while causing the very lag they so hate. Its pathetic.

The days of siege ambush are upon you. Quit whining get like 3 buddies and go lay some ambushes. Quick! Before the rest of the "can't think outside of the box" gang cries to Zeni so loud they take away your fun. Where are all the box canyons in Cyrodiil? How do you get a gang of pugs to follow you into a blind spot? I have never seen so many fools cry when someone hands them a gift on a silver platter. Yes, a pug can fire a siege weapon. So can you, do you think you can do it better?

TBois

Gankimus wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

I see plenty, the day of 1vXing is far gone. People are just filing up in zergs and running others down, while causing the very lag they so hate. Its pathetic.

The days of siege ambush are upon you. Quit whining get like 3 buddies and go lay some ambushes. Quick! Before the rest of the "can't think outside of the box" gang cries to Zeni so loud they take away your fun. Where are all the box canyons in Cyrodiil? How do you get a gang of pugs to follow you into a blind spot? I have never seen so many fools cry when someone hands them a gift on a silver platter. Yes, a pug can fire a siege weapon. So can you, do you think you can do it better?

siege is boring to me, so i'll still cry about it

Gankimus

TBois wrote: »

Gankimus wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

I see plenty, the day of 1vXing is far gone. People are just filing up in zergs and running others down, while causing the very lag they so hate. Its pathetic.

The days of siege ambush are upon you. Quit whining get like 3 buddies and go lay some ambushes. Quick! Before the rest of the "can't think outside of the box" gang cries to Zeni so loud they take away your fun. Where are all the box canyons in Cyrodiil? How do you get a gang of pugs to follow you into a blind spot? I have never seen so many fools cry when someone hands them a gift on a silver platter. Yes, a pug can fire a siege weapon. So can you, do you think you can do it better?

siege is boring to me, so i'll still cry about it

Perfect. You can be the bait then. Stand over there by that rock and /cry.

TBois

Gankimus wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

Gankimus wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

I see plenty, the day of 1vXing is far gone. People are just filing up in zergs and running others down, while causing the very lag they so hate. Its pathetic.

The days of siege ambush are upon you. Quit whining get like 3 buddies and go lay some ambushes. Quick! Before the rest of the "can't think outside of the box" gang cries to Zeni so loud they take away your fun. Where are all the box canyons in Cyrodiil? How do you get a gang of pugs to follow you into a blind spot? I have never seen so many fools cry when someone hands them a gift on a silver platter. Yes, a pug can fire a siege weapon. So can you, do you think you can do it better?

siege is boring to me, so i'll still cry about it

Perfect. You can be the bait then. Stand over there by that rock and /cry.

ok, I'll stand there crying, and you can siege, that would be more fun for me than sieging myself, i need to convert all my pocket healers to pocket siegers

sharquez

And to think a couple of patches ago we were all crying about how Swift is op and superfast sorcs are breaking the game.

If you are getting caught by roots and snares and such, and dying, that is called being caught out of position and being punished for it. The endless whine threads are not really working as we have seen so far so we need to learn to play better. and learn what we are doing wrong and avoid those things.

Remember, casting complain does not remove snares/roots/stuns/fears.

Edirt_seliv

CyrusArya wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

Welcome to Murkmire for everybody else. I love how the arguement raid style players make is that “oh no now we have to individually build for and actually invest into mobility”

Like that’s the point. I’m sure the actually good guilds will adapt. But it is so entitled to think one playstyle should be allowed to operate under a different rule set and standards than literally everybody else.

What different ruleset? Lol

Anyway, no change to any abilty is going to make raid guilds build for individual mediocrity like small scale guilds. Specialized roles is always going to be the most efficient way for these groups to load out. You're still going to have deticated healer, purge bots, snare bots, glass cannon dps, and support players of all other kinds, its just optimal.

This is an MMO, classes and roles exist within the game, to not maximise on that is to lower your effectivness. The 'Play as you want' mentality that this games promotes so heavily doesn't mean your stamblade healer is going to be good, it just means you can play that dumb bowl if you want. Famous khajiits WW build is the perfect example. Fun no doubt, but effective? Errrrr 'play as you want'

Not all classes are created equal for each task and nor should they be. If you're a dps in raid it's inefficient to build for self heals, players who are actually specced into that will simply do a better job at it so the logic is let them do that. It's a you perfect your job, I'll perfect mine scenario, not a lets both do each others jobs to a sub par outcome.

technohic

I dont think I saw one last night. If I did, they just died like everyone else who clumped up.

Saying it is killing 1vx and small scale is a bit of a stretch. Saw Miat and another stealthier running around causing plenty of trouble. Also saw a tank/ DPS duo non gankers running around just fine.

I only noticed 1 time seeing any time stop spam and they were quickly dispatched

It's only been 1 day though. And we really wont know the impact on time stop spam, or Rapids spam, or how effective siege really is until they maybe address siege damage a bit Monday at the earliest

DivineFirstYOLO

Irylia wrote: »

Has anyone seen any since rapids nerf? If so how hilarious has it been to watch them move amidst the time stops/roots?

The age of siege and dragon disruptor are upon us.

Blasphemy! The time has come, execute order 66 @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO , go show em disbelievers how it's done.

Lord_Sando

"Not all classes are created equal for each task and nor should they be. If you're a dps in raid it's inefficient to build for self heals, players who are actually specced into that will simply do a better job at it so the logic is let them do that. It's a you perfect your job, I'll perfect mine scenario, not a lets both do each other jobs at a sub par outcome."


every one else has to be well rounded. Zerglings should have to choose too.

usmcjdking

@Rin_Senya coldfire fragged me like 3 times last night in the midst of me massacring tower potatoes.

How does anyone think this is a bad idea? If you want to go RP a God go to Riften. I'm here to demolish as many people as possible and then get sent back to the Stone Age violently.

TBois

usmcjdking wrote: »

@Rin_Senya coldfire fragged me like 3 times last night in the midst of me massacring tower potatoes.

How does anyone think this is a bad idea? If you want to go RP a God go to Riften. I'm here to demolish as many people as possible and then get sent back to the Stone Age violently.

I'm all for that, just give me a more interesting way to do it than pointing and clicking.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Has anyone seen any since rapids nerf? If so how hilarious has it been to watch them move amidst the time stops/roots?

The age of siege and dragon disruptor are upon us.

Blasphemy! The time has come, execute order 66 @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO , go show em disbelievers how it's done.

We'll see how it goes

Edirt_seliv

l

Lord_Sando wrote: »

"Not all classes are created equal for each task and nor should they be. If you're a dps in raid it's inefficient to build for self heals, players who are actually specced into that will simply do a better job at it so the logic is let them do that. It's a you perfect your job, I'll perfect mine scenario, not a lets both do each other jobs at a sub par outcome."


every one else has to be well rounded. Zerglings should have to choose too.

Choose what? Having to be well rounded is the opposite of choice. If you HAVE to be anything it's indicative of a lack of choice.

frostz417

Minno wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

Welcome to Murkmire for everybody else. I love how the arguement raid style players make is that “oh no now we have to individually build for and actually invest into mobility”

Like that’s the point. I’m sure the actually good guilds will adapt. But it is so entitled to think one playstyle should be allowed to operate under a different rule set and standards than literally everybody else.

I think movement should be reworked completely. You’re right... ball groups will now suffer what EVERYONE has to suffer. And that is zos’s laziness and refusal to adddress the ridiculous snare and root meta. Now this patch we will all equally endure the sheer horror of how stupidly broken snares and roots are.

After the nerf to speed and nerfs to both rapids and rouge pots, we aren't going to see any changes to snares/speed in the way you are hoping.

You will need to adapt now.

Really. The current combat is slow as hell since it’s all snares and roots which’s is extremely unbalanced. Ive adapted fine but it’s irritating as hell when there’s these random tank root spamming bots who just hit talons or ice wall. Ruins game plau

barshemm

The ones they have not already will catch on to the new ball group meta. All stamina wardens with forward momentum, vines and steel tornado.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

CyrusArya wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Yeah trash nerf honestly. So now we all get to be in the mud with all the ridiculous snares

Welcome to Murkmire for everybody else. I love how the arguement raid style players make is that “oh no now we have to individually build for and actually invest into mobility”

Like that’s the point. I’m sure the actually good guilds will adapt. But it is so entitled to think one playstyle should be allowed to operate under a different rule set and standards than literally everybody else.

@CyrusArya

Personally I would rather remove the Murkmire nerf for smallscale and keep the group utility role but I guess some people prefer the *** for tat route.

The point is raids were already going to quite a great level to provide this buff, which, lets not forget, was already being removed every second. It was a completely unique and dedicated role and for me that's a shame that the diversity of that role is now no longer available.

It would be like tanking being removed from PVE because people think raids dps and healers need to handle their own mitigation. Can you imagine the rage should dps players have to buff with their own magicka steal or provide their own orbs for resource management.

There should be advantages of playing as a group imo. Just because people go to solo or 3 man a trial (for the added challenge) don't have those advantages you haven't convinced me that groups also shouldn't have them so far ^^

CyrusArya

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@CyrusArya

Personally I would rather remove the Murkmire nerf for smallscale and keep the group utility role but I guess some people prefer the *** for tat route.

The point is raids were already going to quite a great level to provide this buff, which, lets not forget, was already being removed every second. It was a completely unique and dedicated role and for me that's a shame that the diversity of that role is now no longer available.

It would be like tanking being removed from PVE because people think raids dps and healers need to handle their own mitigation. Can you imagine the rage should dps players have to buff with their own magicka steal or provide their own orbs for resource management.

There should be advantages of playing as a group imo. Just because people go to solo or 3 man a trial (for the added challenge) don't have those advantages you haven't convinced me that groups also shouldn't have them so far ^^

Clearly they aren’t gonna revert Murkmire, so for sake of balance things had to be evened out. First of all, to equate a rapids spammer to a tank in PvE is a ludicrous comparison and an insult to both PvPers and PvErs. Now to address your points of substance.

Of course there should be advantages to being in a group. Are you suggesting that without a rapids monkey there are none? Groups get copious amounts of cross support, dedicated healers, coordinated ultis from dedicated dps specs, the freedom to utilize sets and builds that those without the safety net of group support cannot viably run, and the advantage of sheer numbers. That’s plenty of advantages. Furthermore I also agree and support the idea of build and role diversity. But even though we agree on these points, you still haven’t convinced me that rapids- an ability that allowed one player spamming one skill to provide both root/snare immunity AND expedition to an entire group- was balanced. Do you realize to what lengths everyone else has to go to get either of these buffs, let alone both? Put simply, rapids gave organized ball groups far too much of an advantage over everyone else.

So sure, groups should have some advantages (which they naturally get as a function of being grouped) and build/role diversity is a good thing. But neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive with the fact that rapids in its former state was overtuned.

TBois

CyrusArya wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@CyrusArya

Personally I would rather remove the Murkmire nerf for smallscale and keep the group utility role but I guess some people prefer the *** for tat route.

The point is raids were already going to quite a great level to provide this buff, which, lets not forget, was already being removed every second. It was a completely unique and dedicated role and for me that's a shame that the diversity of that role is now no longer available.

It would be like tanking being removed from PVE because people think raids dps and healers need to handle their own mitigation. Can you imagine the rage should dps players have to buff with their own magicka steal or provide their own orbs for resource management.

There should be advantages of playing as a group imo. Just because people go to solo or 3 man a trial (for the added challenge) don't have those advantages you haven't convinced me that groups also shouldn't have them so far ^^

Clearly they aren’t gonna revert Murkmire, so for sake of balance things had to be evened out. First of all, to equate a rapids spammer to a tank in PvE is a ludicrous comparison and an insult to both PvPers and PvErs. Now to address your points of substance.

Of course there should be advantages to being in a group. Are you suggesting that without a rapids monkey there are none? Groups get copious amounts of cross support, dedicated healers, coordinated ultis from dedicated dps specs, the freedom to utilize sets and builds that those without the safety net of group support cannot viably run, and the advantage of sheer numbers. That’s plenty of advantages. Furthermore I also agree and support the idea of build and role diversity. But even though we agree on these points, you still haven’t convinced me that rapids- an ability that allowed one player spamming one skill to provide both root/snare immunity AND expedition to an entire group- was balanced. Do you realize to what lengths everyone else has to go to get either of these buffs, let alone both? Put simply, rapids gave organized ball groups far too much of an advantage over everyone else.

So sure, groups should have some advantages (which they naturally get as a function of being grouped) and build/role diversity is a good thing. But neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive with the fact that rapids in its former state was overtuned.

I've played stam support in large groups for a while, and frankly your comment is insulting. I play all forms of pvp including small man and solo, as you know; since, I've played against and with you. Stam support, rapids spam as you call it, takes no less skill than solo roaming if both are done at the same level.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

CyrusArya wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@CyrusArya

Personally I would rather remove the Murkmire nerf for smallscale and keep the group utility role but I guess some people prefer the *** for tat route.

The point is raids were already going to quite a great level to provide this buff, which, lets not forget, was already being removed every second. It was a completely unique and dedicated role and for me that's a shame that the diversity of that role is now no longer available.

It would be like tanking being removed from PVE because people think raids dps and healers need to handle their own mitigation. Can you imagine the rage should dps players have to buff with their own magicka steal or provide their own orbs for resource management.

There should be advantages of playing as a group imo. Just because people go to solo or 3 man a trial (for the added challenge) don't have those advantages you haven't convinced me that groups also shouldn't have them so far ^^

Clearly they aren’t gonna revert Murkmire, so for sake of balance things had to be evened out. First of all, to equate a rapids spammer to a tank in PvE is a ludicrous comparison and an insult to both PvPers and PvErs. Now to address your points of substance.

Of course there should be advantages to being in a group. Are you suggesting that without a rapids monkey there are none? Groups get copious amounts of cross support, dedicated healers, coordinated ultis from dedicated dps specs, the freedom to utilize sets and builds that those without the safety net of group support cannot viably run, and the advantage of sheer numbers. That’s plenty of advantages. Furthermore I also agree and support the idea of build and role diversity. But even though we agree on these points, you still haven’t convinced me that rapids- an ability that allowed one player spamming one skill to provide both root/snare immunity AND expedition to an entire group- was balanced. Do you realize to what lengths everyone else has to go to get either of these buffs, let alone both? Put simply, rapids gave organized ball groups far too much of an advantage over everyone else.

So sure, groups should have some advantages (which they naturally get as a function of being grouped) and build/role diversity is a good thing. But neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive with the fact that rapids in its former state was overtuned.

Firstly from your first paragraph it's clear you don't have an understanding of the role. A tank deals with raid mechanics affecting the group in the same way a support char in pvp deals with pvp mechanics affecting a group
Secondly there's no reason why you couldn't utilise group sets in a smaller group and even rapids.

The fights you engage in when smallscaling or soloing are not even close to having the same level of debuffs going out just on a pure mechanics level. Which is why you have the luxury of not having needed these roles to enjoy your prefered playstyle.
Quite simply put you aren't taking part in the same content when compared to the type of fight a good raid would aim for. For example I don't expect you to go out and try and solo down AotP but a group could quite legitimately attempt to do this. 60 players all throwing stacking debuffs on you vs what 2-5? 10 if they are terrible and don't cast any skills in the first place when 1vXing around some LoS area in open field.

As other comments have said I'm sure some groups will adapt. It's not the first time groups have been nerfed and I'm sure it won't be the last but every single group nerf has made the game more zergy and less interesting for the majority of players even smallscalers complaining that all they find are zergs. I would have hoped by now that message would have sunk in.

ShadowProc

Wow. Haven’t logged in game in months or looked at forums. Come back and they finally did what was called out when Murk hit. The same people here defending rapids.

Some of the most powerful buffs(maybe the best) for pvp and one person can spam for group and you say that was balanced versus the pugs and soloers you destroy? Come on.

It’s not *** for tat. It’s called finally balancing what should have been done with all the other snare/speed nerfs