Macro in Action

VaranisArano

Conduit0 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Are macros even against the rules?

Yep.

In the TOS: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_09

9. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES

You further agree not to access, create, or provide any other means through which the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), may be used or accessed by others, such as through server emulators.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

No where in there does it mention marcroing. Macroing is a common practice in MMOs so for ZOS to fail to mention it specifically in their TOS is either a show of utter incompetence or its because they're not against it.
Further more if we go by your apparent interpretation of the TOS any use of peripherals or 3rd party software that allows you to create a control scheme that isn't directly supported by the in-game key bind options is also against the TOS, since it might give them an advantage. Guess I should be banned for using a mouse with more than 3 buttons.

Yes...my interpretation.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/327895/banned-for-keyboard-macro

Along with https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3858917#Comment_3858917

ZOS wants us to be actively controlling our characters. So automating combat skills through macros is a problem.

If you want to test your differing interpretation, be my guest. The TOS verbiage could be clearer, as you say, but I think its clear in context.

Noctus

i am a very successfull pvp player and i can assure u not having full controll of ur skills is a disadvantage. there are allways variables in pvp. when ur macro play a certain sequence and the enemy does something unexpected and counters u.... ur screwed. when ur beyond 500 hours pvp experience playing pvp is like playing piano ....in a band that likes to improvise.
sometimes u need to bash or heavyattack between ur attacks or use a shield in a fraction of a second to escape death.

Conduit0

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Are macros even against the rules?

Yep.

In the TOS: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_09

9. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES

You further agree not to access, create, or provide any other means through which the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), may be used or accessed by others, such as through server emulators.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

No where in there does it mention marcroing. Macroing is a common practice in MMOs so for ZOS to fail to mention it specifically in their TOS is either a show of utter incompetence or its because they're not against it.
Further more if we go by your apparent interpretation of the TOS any use of peripherals or 3rd party software that allows you to create a control scheme that isn't directly supported by the in-game key bind options is also against the TOS, since it might give them an advantage. Guess I should be banned for using a mouse with more than 3 buttons.

Wouldn't a macro for example to light attack weave with an ability useing gameing software that comes with a mouse be considered 3rd party though?

That would still be a macro, a macro is anything that combines multiple functions into a single key press. Using 3rd party software isn't flat out banned, for example TTC uses 3rd party software yet I don't see ZOS banning people for its use. Also not all automation is strictly banned, mods like multicraft and Votan's fish fillet automate some aspects of the game and ZOS seems to be perfectly fine with it. Heck ZOS was fine with Miat's addon until a big enough stink was raised about it and that offered features that gave a far greater advantage in pvp than any macro ever could.

alexj4596b14_ESO

Conduit0 wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Are macros even against the rules?

Yep.

In the TOS: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_09

9. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES

You further agree not to access, create, or provide any other means through which the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), may be used or accessed by others, such as through server emulators.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

No where in there does it mention marcroing. Macroing is a common practice in MMOs so for ZOS to fail to mention it specifically in their TOS is either a show of utter incompetence or its because they're not against it.
Further more if we go by your apparent interpretation of the TOS any use of peripherals or 3rd party software that allows you to create a control scheme that isn't directly supported by the in-game key bind options is also against the TOS, since it might give them an advantage. Guess I should be banned for using a mouse with more than 3 buttons.

Wouldn't a macro for example to light attack weave with an ability useing gameing software that comes with a mouse be considered 3rd party though?

That would still be a macro, a macro is anything that combines multiple functions into a single key press. Using 3rd party software isn't flat out banned, for example TTC uses 3rd party software yet I don't see ZOS banning people for its use. Also not all automation is strictly banned, mods like multicraft and Votan's fish fillet automate some aspects of the game and ZOS seems to be perfectly fine with it. Heck ZOS was fine with Miat's addon until a big enough stink was raised about it and that offered features that gave a far greater advantage in pvp than any macro ever could.

Ultimately this is what I'm getting at. A macro used to adapt to a mental or physical issue vs. someone who cheating. This is going to be very obvious. A player who is adapting would have a macro that would limit the amount of imputs but equal the playing field. A cheater would use every available option available to him to give himself an edge and the macro would reflect this.

Zacuel

Macro's, lagswitches and man-bear-pig! I told you they were real!

ATomiX96

If that happened once in that bg, it could just have been latency related.
But if he did it consistently and multiple times within a short period of time its justified to cry for macro-abuse.

Elsonso

Syhae wrote: »

I see 3 Nightblade skills used over 3 seconds in the combat log. With light attacks and bashes mixed in. Please tell me where the macro is?

I agree that this particular picture is probably not showing a macro in use, but just because a player can manually perform attacks does not mean that a macro isn't being used.

Noctus

bash skill lightattack skill bash lightattack skill <-- i dont see something reaccuring. no macro

Conduit0

VaranisArano wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Are macros even against the rules?

Yep.

In the TOS: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_09

9. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES

You further agree not to access, create, or provide any other means through which the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), may be used or accessed by others, such as through server emulators.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

No where in there does it mention marcroing. Macroing is a common practice in MMOs so for ZOS to fail to mention it specifically in their TOS is either a show of utter incompetence or its because they're not against it.
Further more if we go by your apparent interpretation of the TOS any use of peripherals or 3rd party software that allows you to create a control scheme that isn't directly supported by the in-game key bind options is also against the TOS, since it might give them an advantage. Guess I should be banned for using a mouse with more than 3 buttons.

Yes...my interpretation.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/327895/banned-for-keyboard-macro

Along with https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3858917#Comment_3858917

ZOS wants us to be actively controlling our characters. So automating combat skills through macros is a problem.

If you want to test your differing interpretation, be my guest. The TOS verbiage could be clearer, as you say, but I think its clear in context.

You have one thread of someone claiming they were banned for using a macro but offers no evidence to verify it and a post from Jessica that once again fails to address macros directly. You're interpreting the TOS to suit your personal bias rather than reading what is actually there.

Nerftheforums

The noobness is real. You forum warriors are AMAZING. Imagine not being able to do a bash e weave rotation in 2019. Like, for real?

OlumoGarbag

This Post is Gold. Now i know why alot of People Call HAxx or MAkrO everytime you kill them with a clean combo.

Inarre

Macros are a freaking liability.

VaranisArano

Conduit0 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Are macros even against the rules?

Yep.

In the TOS: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_09

9. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES

You further agree not to access, create, or provide any other means through which the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), may be used or accessed by others, such as through server emulators.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

No where in there does it mention marcroing. Macroing is a common practice in MMOs so for ZOS to fail to mention it specifically in their TOS is either a show of utter incompetence or its because they're not against it.
Further more if we go by your apparent interpretation of the TOS any use of peripherals or 3rd party software that allows you to create a control scheme that isn't directly supported by the in-game key bind options is also against the TOS, since it might give them an advantage. Guess I should be banned for using a mouse with more than 3 buttons.

Yes...my interpretation.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/327895/banned-for-keyboard-macro

Along with https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3858917#Comment_3858917

ZOS wants us to be actively controlling our characters. So automating combat skills through macros is a problem.

If you want to test your differing interpretation, be my guest. The TOS verbiage could be clearer, as you say, but I think its clear in context.

You have one thread of someone claiming they were banned for using a macro but offers no evidence to verify it and a post from Jessica that once again fails to address macros directly. You're interpreting the TOS to suit your personal bias rather than reading what is actually there.

If you are looking for a dev post or spot in the TOS that specifically uses the word "macro"...

Yeah, I can't find one. If its out there, my Google-fu can't find it.

And since its clear thats the only thing that will satisfy you, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I still think its pretty clear that macros = automating your character to take action without human input, since you don't input all the actions like a player normally would. And that's pretty obviously against the TOS.

Tzayad

Bashev wrote: »

Syhae wrote: »

Lot of players don't understand global cool down and blame things on macro.

Global cool down is like 1 second (a little over 1 I think? Someone please fact check me if I'm wrong)

In that global CD there are a couple things you can do.

Per global CD you can only use 1 skill. Note I said skill. This doesn't cover light attacking or bashing.
Every global CD you can light attack before using your skill and bash right after it.
Easiest way to do that? Rebind bash to a different button first, I use V.
So when you press a skill, what your fingers should be doing is this : Light Attack(Left Click) Skill(1-5 whatever you bind it to) and bash(V for me if youre bash cancelling your skill).

Anybody can do that without macros. It isn't hard, 3 buttons pressed in sequence.

I get that some people don't really have the time to invest in practicing that, or really care enough to get that down but calling it macros is silly and ignorant, its just a player who knows how to cast skills every GCD and how to light attack weave and bash cancel, it isn't rocket science.

I see 3 Nightblade skills used over 3 seconds in the combat log. With light attacks and bashes mixed in. Please tell me where the macro is?

Really? Don you see that after each light attack follow a skill within 0.06ms?

Considering that the light attack was most likely cancelled with the skill, that's what I'd expect to see actually. I see no clear evidence of a macro here.

TheYKcid

Could it be a macro? Sure.

But what would the culprit have to gain by running one? LA weaving & bash weaving are extremely fundamental game mechanics, and anyone with a keyboard and a little practice can execute the 3-hit combo you described.

None of the 3 actions share a cooldown, so they can be weaved almost instantaneously apart as @Syhae mentioned. It's a very common combo for stam builds mainbarring S&B, in fact.

The macro user has nothing to gain over someone doing it manually, only possible drawbacks. They could be low on stam and trying to save resources, but the macro keeps spamming bash and wasting even more stam, for instance. PvP combat is so dynamic that's it always better to have full agency.

Mr_Walker

Inarre wrote: »

Macros are a freaking liability.

Really? You don't have to have a 20 step macro, you know....

ruikkarikun

VaranisArano wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Are macros even against the rules?

Yep.

In the TOS: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_09

9. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES

You further agree not to access, create, or provide any other means through which the Services, including, but not limited to, any Game(s), may be used or accessed by others, such as through server emulators.

You may not participate, take part in, initiate, or engage in actions that impose an unreasonable or disproportionate load on the infrastructure hosting the Game(s) and/or Services.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

So mouse and key boardacros are also against the rules then?

Macros would be against the rules, yes. ZOS wants us to be actively controlling our characters. Automation is against the TOS. In the past, they've stated that even rubberbanding/taping your controller is not acceptable. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3858917#Comment_3858917

If so why no actionts from them?

Gilvoth

i have a list of people who do it regularly, i report them when i see them.
its allways the same thing, they hit people with 5 or 6 skills or light attacks in less then 1 second, its allways the same guys, i never see other people doing it.

in addition to that, i see those same guys at resources take out those guards on the flags instantly.
you see the guard fall and all you hear is one hit.

alexj4596b14_ESO

Gilvoth wrote: »

i have a list of people who do it regularly, i report them when i see them.
its allways the same thing, they hit people with 5 or 6 skills or light attacks in less then 1 second, its allways the same guys, i never see other people doing it.

in addition to that, i see those same guys at resources take out those guards on the flags instantly.
you see the guard fall and all you hear is one hit.

I experience this in PvP all the time, but combat logs shows like 8 hits.

damtotb16_ESO

Syhae wrote: »

Lot of players don't understand global cool down and blame things on macro.

Global cool down is like 1 second (a little over 1 I think? Someone please fact check me if I'm wrong)

In that global CD there are a couple things you can do.

Per global CD you can only use 1 skill. Note I said skill. This doesn't cover light attacking or bashing.
Every global CD you can light attack before using your skill and bash right after it.
Easiest way to do that? Rebind bash to a different button first, I use V.
So when you press a skill, what your fingers should be doing is this : Light Attack(Left Click) Skill(1-5 whatever you bind it to) and bash(V for me if youre bash cancelling your skill).

Anybody can do that without macros. It isn't hard, 3 buttons pressed in sequence.

I get that some people don't really have the time to invest in practicing that, or really care enough to get that down but calling it macros is silly and ignorant, its just a player who knows how to cast skills every GCD and how to light attack weave and bash cancel, it isn't rocket science.

I see 3 Nightblade skills used over 3 seconds in the combat log. With light attacks and bashes mixed in. Please tell me where the macro is?

Since I am frustrated with ZoS not really caring for player report I decided to flame them bit on forum. I was a beta tester and play pvp ever since and I know when something is irregular. I did not provide more recorded evidence because it's primary purpose was to draw the attention of ZoS and they can investigate him as they want, although I doubt they will.

I was there and you did not, if every attack that i don't dodge roll is la+skill+ bash all 3 within 0.15 sec replicated on 5-6 separate occasions, your flowery letter can not convince me that such a precision is possible for human hand because it is not.
I pay u 100k if u replicate this on me in a fight 5-6 time in a row just by pressing keyboard and mouse, I bet u can't do it even on target dummy.
Peace

alexj4596b14_ESO

damtotb16_ESO wrote: »

Syhae wrote: »

Lot of players don't understand global cool down and blame things on macro.

Global cool down is like 1 second (a little over 1 I think? Someone please fact check me if I'm wrong)

In that global CD there are a couple things you can do.

Per global CD you can only use 1 skill. Note I said skill. This doesn't cover light attacking or bashing.
Every global CD you can light attack before using your skill and bash right after it.
Easiest way to do that? Rebind bash to a different button first, I use V.
So when you press a skill, what your fingers should be doing is this : Light Attack(Left Click) Skill(1-5 whatever you bind it to) and bash(V for me if youre bash cancelling your skill).

Anybody can do that without macros. It isn't hard, 3 buttons pressed in sequence.

I get that some people don't really have the time to invest in practicing that, or really care enough to get that down but calling it macros is silly and ignorant, its just a player who knows how to cast skills every GCD and how to light attack weave and bash cancel, it isn't rocket science.

I see 3 Nightblade skills used over 3 seconds in the combat log. With light attacks and bashes mixed in. Please tell me where the macro is?

Since I am frustrated with ZoS not really caring for player report I decided to flame them bit on forum. I was a beta tester and play pvp ever since and I know when something is irregular. I did not provide more recorded evidence because it's primary purpose was to draw the attention of ZoS and they can investigate him as they want, although I doubt they will.

I was there and you did not, if every attack that i don't dodge roll is la+skill+ bash all 3 within 0.15 sec replicated on 5-6 separate occasions, your flowery letter can not convince me that such a precision is possible for human hand because it is not.
I pay u 100k if u replicate this on me in a fight 5-6 time in a row just by pressing keyboard and mouse, I bet u can't do it even on target dummy.
Peace

Real money or gold? Just Wondering?

Elsonso

Conduit0 wrote: »

You have one thread of someone claiming they were banned for using a macro but offers no evidence to verify it and a post from Jessica that once again fails to address macros directly. You're interpreting the TOS to suit your personal bias rather than reading what is actually there.

So, ask ZOS privately and see what they say.

Noctus

damtotb16_ESO wrote: »

Syhae wrote: »

Lot of players don't understand global cool down and blame things on macro.

Global cool down is like 1 second (a little over 1 I think? Someone please fact check me if I'm wrong)

In that global CD there are a couple things you can do.

Per global CD you can only use 1 skill. Note I said skill. This doesn't cover light attacking or bashing.
Every global CD you can light attack before using your skill and bash right after it.
Easiest way to do that? Rebind bash to a different button first, I use V.
So when you press a skill, what your fingers should be doing is this : Light Attack(Left Click) Skill(1-5 whatever you bind it to) and bash(V for me if youre bash cancelling your skill).

Anybody can do that without macros. It isn't hard, 3 buttons pressed in sequence.

I get that some people don't really have the time to invest in practicing that, or really care enough to get that down but calling it macros is silly and ignorant, its just a player who knows how to cast skills every GCD and how to light attack weave and bash cancel, it isn't rocket science.

I see 3 Nightblade skills used over 3 seconds in the combat log. With light attacks and bashes mixed in. Please tell me where the macro is?

I was there and you did not, if every attack that i don't dodge roll is la+skill+ bash all 3 within 0.15 sec

ur disproving ur own point with that screenshot of urs. he does bash skill lightattack skill bash lightattack skill
he uses lightattack after a skill and a skill after a bashattack at the start.

Haashhtaag

Gravord wrote: »

Animation cancelling should never be a thing as its only encourages baddies to go for macros in the first place. And theres plenty baddies out there that will resort to any shady exploit to get advantage.

Imagine not understanding GCD's

TheRealSniker

KoultouraS wrote: »

65-70% percent of players play with macro.
The other 30-35% percent of players either think they are noobs and they just lose to "skilled(aka macro) players ,
or do use macro but call it a "skill".

I see people animation canceling in cyrodiil , on the move... going in and out the zerg ball...
they must be having something more than 20 fingers per hand...

Glad to be among the 5% who use cheat engine

Royaji

If we were to be objective there is not enough evidence to claim that they are using a macro. They might be but what you are providing as proof is just not enough. We have only one screenshot from a third party addon where the situation only happened once. You might be saying that "he did it 5-6 times in a row!" but we have no proof of that.

Additionally the addon itself can provide a lot of variability since it can only record things that happen client-side. Take into account that ping in ESO is usually around 80-100 ms on a good day and the fact that servers are not in the greatest shape and your timestamps might be completely off. I wouldn't trust something that is showing me three decimal spaces while having no capability to measure them precisely.

And it is well known that ZOS takes privacy quite seriously and never discusses any kind of disciplinary actions with 3rd parties. They might have taken action against that player but even if they did, they will never tell you about it.

And I mean can you really surprise anyone with LA - skill - bash these days?

Rikumaru

It's just animation cancelling most likely. I have bash on down scroll wheel so for me it's incredibly easy to do the la skill bash combo, and I'm sure many other players have similar setups to this. Imo using macros would be harder than using no macros. Imagine setting up a macro for a "la skill" on each skill and then having a macro for each "la skill bash". Ontop of that having all of that combined with one for a roll dodge / bar swap, that just seems 500x more complicated to do than just to do it naturally.

TheYKcid

Royaji wrote: »

Additionally the addon itself can provide a lot of variability since it can only record things that happen client-side. Take into account that ping in ESO is usually around 80-100 ms on a good day and the fact that servers are not in the greatest shape and your timestamps might be completely off. I wouldn't trust something that is showing me three decimal spaces while having no capability to measure them precisely.

Even the client-side experience is itself distinct from what the UI records.

AFAIK, combat log addons report from the UI, which becomes evident during Snipe desyncs (a client-UI desync).

Compound this with additional asynchrony to the server caused by lag, and you really can't trust what your eyes—or even your addons—see. Which further discredits the OP (the fact that they provided a sample size of 1 notwithstanding).

thedude33

It's deja vu all over again. Quite amusing actually.

- People complain that others are using macros, scripts or some kind of CE
- The 'elites' chime in and say it's not possible. That it's a L2p issue. That some players are just that good.
- Eventually, a few players get banned.
- The elites say they have lost all respect for Player A
- Player A makes a post and apologizes. Says he only cheated so he could compete with everyone else that he knows is cheating.
- Rinse repeat

I have seen this story play out over and over since back in EQ and DAoC days.

Sy1ph5

thedude33 wrote: »

It's deja vu all over again. Quite amusing actually.

- People complain that others are using macros, scripts or some kind of CE
- The 'elites' chime in and say it's not possible. That it's a L2p issue. That some players are just that good.
- Eventually, a few players get banned.
- The elites say they have lost all respect for Player A
- Player A makes a post and apologizes. Says he only cheated so he could compete with everyone else that he knows is cheating.
- Rinse repeat

I have seen this story play out over and over since back in EQ and DAoC days.

Assuming people that outplay you are cheating is a surefire way to suck forever.

I've haven't seen anything I couldn't attribute to server latency in years.

Forum skepticism exists not for the reasons you sugges. It exists because players who try to post here about that either lack the experience and knowledge to even understand how the game works on a fundamental level, or are just mad cause bad.

A report system exists if anybody had anything real it would be sent there and not here.