Wood Elf Racial Changes -- ZOS, Please Stop Ignoring Your Community

validifyedneb18_ESO

Eiron77 wrote: »

Is this even TES anymore?

I think I'm better off waiting 3-6 years for the next ACTUAL elder scrolls game to release.

skyrim 76 will be with you shortly.

TheTraveler

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You do not represent an entire community,

I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.

Everyone their best race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.

I am fine with Bosmer changes!

...so why make Kahjit OP then, if, according to your logic, stealth made Bosmer OP? Not only do Kahjit get stealth, they get added crit damage too.

TheTraveler

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You do not represent an entire community,

I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.

Everyone want their favourite race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.

I am fine with Bosmer changes!

How is a 3m sneak bonus over performing? Khajiit still have that.
When did we ask to shine in all roles? Khajiits are now a magicka race as well

Oh, I bet you think the 10% damage bonus to sneak was OP and that is what we want back. Where do you see that?

These sweeping generic statements in your post point to you not knowing what is being discussed.

Bosmer will be doing great, 2k Stamina and massive Stam Regen is keeping them on top.

Stealth radius is easier to gain, medium armour gives + many other sets. I doubt its even an excuse to complaint for.

You know, like another poster suggested: Just disable racial passives in Cyro and we'll all be good and equal.

TheTraveler

Czirne wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

bosmer will be better in next patch, stop these qq threads.

Just, you know, not for stealth.

Oh no, that will be terrible, you will have to actually avoid npc while sneaking to avoid detection. What a immersion kill, what a horrible change.

Bosmer will be better race than ever. and you still can sneak on bosmer and be fine. Exactly like other races. Absolutely fine you dont even notice.

You obviously do not have a bosmer PVE thief/assasin

Amphithoe

C'mone ZOS give Bosmer their stealth back! I recently made a Bosmer thief and now you have ruined her. Please try to build a game around the lore and not *change* lore around the game.

A_Silverius

Penetration on dodge roll is kinda silly, why should we be forced to dodge roll to make use of it? Also please give back Bosmer stealth.

wedgebert

A_Silverius wrote: »

Penetration on dodge roll is kinda silly, why should we be forced to dodge roll to make use of it? Also please give back Bosmer stealth.

What's worse, is that in PVE if you care about penetration, you're likely at the cap anyways. So all rolling does is grant 10% speed, something also obtainable from the bow skill line. If you want to be able to benefit from the added penetration, you'd have to do some weird build that focused on roll cost reduction and was just below pen cap. So it's an incredibly niche playstyle.

In PVP, shields and blocking aren't affected by penetration, so the bonus is easily negated there.

A_Silverius

wedgebert wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Penetration on dodge roll is kinda silly, why should we be forced to dodge roll to make use of it? Also please give back Bosmer stealth.

What's worse, is that in PVE if you care about penetration, you're likely at the cap anyways. So all rolling does is grant 10% speed, something also obtainable from the bow skill line. If you want to be able to benefit from the added penetration, you'd have to do some weird build that focused on roll cost reduction and was just below pen cap. So it's an incredibly niche playstyle.

In PVP, shields and blocking aren't affected by penetration, so the bonus is easily negated there.

Wow, so its truly useless then huh.... Damn

wedgebert

I mean I guess it's not 100% useless. If you're leveling or haven't hit the pen cap (in PVE I'm told it's ~9K and ~18K for normal and vet), then you get a small bonus. Definitely not worth purposely rolling for unless you have crazy roll cost reduction.

And in PVP, someone who's blocking isn't attacking.

But I'd rather have the Altmer "restore whatever resource you don't need" power then "spend 3000 precious stamina for a small temporary damage boost that takes just as long to recover from. As as stamblade, I use Soul Trap more than I could effectively use this dodge roll buff.

Eiron77

A_Silverius wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Penetration on dodge roll is kinda silly, why should we be forced to dodge roll to make use of it? Also please give back Bosmer stealth.

What's worse, is that in PVE if you care about penetration, you're likely at the cap anyways. So all rolling does is grant 10% speed, something also obtainable from the bow skill line. If you want to be able to benefit from the added penetration, you'd have to do some weird build that focused on roll cost reduction and was just below pen cap. So it's an incredibly niche playstyle.

In PVP, shields and blocking aren't affected by penetration, so the bonus is easily negated there.

Wow, so its truly useless then huh.... Damn

Yes. It really is. My bosmer is not even putting points into it. I don't need extra skill points so I'm just putting those extra 3 into spotting resource nodes at a greater distance. Because that passive is better than Hunters Eye.

HankTwo

wedgebert wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Penetration on dodge roll is kinda silly, why should we be forced to dodge roll to make use of it? Also please give back Bosmer stealth.

What's worse, is that in PVE if you care about penetration, you're likely at the cap anyways. So all rolling does is grant 10% speed, something also obtainable from the bow skill line. If you want to be able to benefit from the added penetration, you'd have to do some weird build that focused on roll cost reduction and was just below pen cap. So it's an incredibly niche playstyle.

In PVP, shields and blocking aren't affected by penetration, so the bonus is easily negated there.

The last part contains just misinformation. Resistances and penetration are important factors for both damage shields (since murkmire) and blocking targets (blocking is just another layer of damage reduction). Penetration is overall very useful in PvP.

wedgebert

HankTwo wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Penetration on dodge roll is kinda silly, why should we be forced to dodge roll to make use of it? Also please give back Bosmer stealth.

What's worse, is that in PVE if you care about penetration, you're likely at the cap anyways. So all rolling does is grant 10% speed, something also obtainable from the bow skill line. If you want to be able to benefit from the added penetration, you'd have to do some weird build that focused on roll cost reduction and was just below pen cap. So it's an incredibly niche playstyle.

In PVP, shields and blocking aren't affected by penetration, so the bonus is easily negated there.

The last part contains just misinformation. Resistances and penetration are important factors for both damage shields (since murkmire) and blocking targets (blocking is just another layer of damage reduction). Penetration is overall very useful in PvP.

That's fair, I don't PVP enough to know the latest updates and googling always came back with shields and blocking are not affected by penetration.

So look at it this way, is the bonus actually beneficial? From what I've seen, it around 660 resistance negates 1% of damage. So a 1500 pen bonus would remove 2% of damage mitigation. So if you have to roll defensively, you get 2% extra damage for about 5 seconds. Not great, but since you were trying not to die, it's okay.

However used offensively, you wasted a lot of stamina to far less extra damage than a single use of any offensive ability. That's a pretty weak benefit. There's zero reason to attempt to get this buff. If you don't have to dodge roll, then it will always be more beneficial to just attack in terms of stamina used and dps.

XIIICaesar

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You do not represent an entire community,

I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.

Everyone want their favourite race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.

I am fine with Bosmer changes!

^^^ This. They're balancing. Each race is still unique BUT can better fill all roles. A lot of the changes are lore firendly. SO MANY complained about balance. Now ZOS is giving them balance it 'NERF HAMMER.' Pffttt lol.

HankTwo

wedgebert wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Penetration on dodge roll is kinda silly, why should we be forced to dodge roll to make use of it? Also please give back Bosmer stealth.

What's worse, is that in PVE if you care about penetration, you're likely at the cap anyways. So all rolling does is grant 10% speed, something also obtainable from the bow skill line. If you want to be able to benefit from the added penetration, you'd have to do some weird build that focused on roll cost reduction and was just below pen cap. So it's an incredibly niche playstyle.

In PVP, shields and blocking aren't affected by penetration, so the bonus is easily negated there.

The last part contains just misinformation. Resistances and penetration are important factors for both damage shields (since murkmire) and blocking targets (blocking is just another layer of damage reduction). Penetration is overall very useful in PvP.

That's fair, I don't PVP enough to know the latest updates and googling always came back with shields and blocking are not affected by penetration.

So look at it this way, is the bonus actually beneficial? From what I've seen, it around 660 resistance negates 1% of damage. So a 1500 pen bonus would remove 2% of damage mitigation. So if you have to roll defensively, you get 2% extra damage for about 5 seconds. Not great, but since you were trying not to die, it's okay.

However used offensively, you wasted a lot of stamina to far less extra damage than a single use of any offensive ability. That's a pretty weak benefit. There's zero reason to attempt to get this buff. If you don't have to dodge roll, then it will always be more beneficial to just attack in terms of stamina used and dps.

If you PvP with a medium armor build you will be roll dodging very frequently in any fight that isn't completely one sided, so the penetration and speed boost will have a high uptime. I know several players who were really looking forward to these changes. Imo, Bosmer is overall much better now than it was before the patch in noCP PvP. Combine the dodge roll passive with a bow and you will have a huge speed advantage to break los and so on.

BlueRaven

XIIICaesar wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You do not represent an entire community,

I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.

Everyone want their favourite race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.

I am fine with Bosmer changes!

^^^ This. They're balancing. Each race is still unique BUT can better fill all roles. A lot of the changes are lore firendly. SO MANY complained about balance. Now ZOS is giving them balance it 'NERF HAMMER.' Pffttt lol.

Well Zos failed on all counts.

"Each race is still unique BUT can better fill all roles."

What is unique about Bosmers now? What role are they good for, guards? P
And please tell me where Bosmers place on dps charts, are they in the top 3? Top 4? Top 5 even??

Here is a video comparing stam races;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

Results are at 17:19 if you want to zoom ahead. Spoiler: Bosmers came in dead last.

"A lot of the changes are lore firendly."

Imperials having better stealth racials than bosmers is lore friendly now?

"SO MANY complained about balance. Now ZOS is giving them balance it 'NERF HAMMER.' Pffttt lol."

I think you will find most Bosmers just want their stealth back to what it was (even without the +10% damage bonus). Is that OP now?

Alucardo

I've going to play devils advocate here and say that I love the changes. Bosmer went from a race that I'd never even consider looking at, to one I'll be changing to shortly.
And please nobody mention "but lore dictates...". It's nearly impossible to balance an MMO around lore based on single player games. Let's look at the Wrathstone racials compared to the lore - since when did Nords ever have more resistances to magic than Bretons?
Lore comes second to balance in ESO, and even though I'm a massive Elder Scrolls fan, I believe that's a good thing.

Eiron77

Alucardo wrote: »

It's nearly impossible to balance an MMO around lore based on single player games.

Lol, what?!?!

It's only nearly impossible if you're clueless and have no idea what you're doing. It's really not that difficult, at all. ZOS could have easily made lore friendly, balanced racials. But they chose to put their own agenda behind some of these decisions. It's super disappointing.

BlueRaven

Eiron77 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It's nearly impossible to balance an MMO around lore based on single player games.

Lol, what?!?!

It's only nearly impossible if you're clueless and have no idea what you're doing. It's really not that difficult, at all. ZOS could have easily made lore friendly, balanced racials. But they chose to put their own agenda behind some of these decisions. It's super disappointing.

Edit: Sorry replied to wrong person.

I agree. Carry on!

GrumpyDuckling

Alucardo wrote: »

I've going to play devils advocate here and say that I love the changes. Bosmer went from a race that I'd never even consider looking at, to one I'll be changing to shortly.
And please nobody mention "but lore dictates...". It's nearly impossible to balance an MMO around lore based on single player games. Let's look at the Wrathstone racials compared to the lore - since when did Nords ever have more resistances to magic than Bretons?
Lore comes second to balance in ESO, and even though I'm a massive Elder Scrolls fan, I believe that's a good thing.

I disagree with your statement that it is "good thing" that lore comes second to balance. We could have had both lore and balance.

wedgebert

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I disagree with your statement that it is "good thing" that lore comes second to balance. We could have had both lore and balance.

I want to second this. Without lore having a strong meaning, we're just playing a game that currently happens to be set in the Elder Scrolls universe.

Lore is what stops them from deciding every alliance needs every role and making the new race specialties

• Tank: Nord, Khajiit, Orc
• DD: Altmer, Breton, Dunmer
• Healer; Bosmer, Argonian, Redguard

Well, lore and a desire to sell "Any Race, Any Alliance".

zyk

Well sure, you don't have a Bosmer character and/or you like the new passives better. So screw those other guys affected, because this works for you!

Until ZOS unnecessarily changes something whimsically after 5 years that you care about and no one else does because it doesn't affect them. Or maybe it's your bank because you didn't read the pages of small print. Maybe it's Ford or Microsoft or Google.

This isn't actually a game issue, this is a RL issue involving ethics that extend beyond the particulars of the game itself.

anadandy

Alucardo wrote: »

I've going to play devils advocate here and say that I love the changes. Bosmer went from a race that I'd never even consider looking at, to one I'll be changing to shortly.
And please nobody mention "but lore dictates...". It's nearly impossible to balance an MMO around lore based on single player games. Let's look at the Wrathstone racials compared to the lore - since when did Nords ever have more resistances to magic than Bretons?
Lore comes second to balance in ESO, and even though I'm a massive Elder Scrolls fan, I believe that's a good thing.

Fair enough, but I am not finding enough compelling evidence that removing the stealth radius bonus (not the dmg bonus) from Bosmer was necessary for balance. Or that leaving the stealth radius bonus would have unbalanced anything. If it did - why would Khajiit still have it? It was gutting of racial identity to no purpose, imo.

heaven13

anadandy wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I've going to play devils advocate here and say that I love the changes. Bosmer went from a race that I'd never even consider looking at, to one I'll be changing to shortly.
And please nobody mention "but lore dictates...". It's nearly impossible to balance an MMO around lore based on single player games. Let's look at the Wrathstone racials compared to the lore - since when did Nords ever have more resistances to magic than Bretons?
Lore comes second to balance in ESO, and even though I'm a massive Elder Scrolls fan, I believe that's a good thing.

Fair enough, but I am not finding enough compelling evidence that removing the stealth radius bonus (not the dmg bonus) from Bosmer was necessary for balance. Or that leaving the stealth radius bonus would have unbalanced anything. If it did - why would Khajiit still have it? It was gutting of racial identity to no purpose, imo.

Exactly this. I don't particularly like the roll dodge/penetration bonus but I have no problems with it staying. ALL I want is to remove the stealth detection and get back stealth reduction radius. I don't even care about the extra damage from stealth. Just let my Bosmer keep the core of her racial identity.