Even giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt and letting the dodgeroll passive movement speed and penetration stand as it is. Bosmer have been better at sneaking than Khajiit in two out of three recent Elder Scrolls games and even in the 1 in 3 they had a bonus to sneaking (just not higher than Khajiit). ZOS thinks "meh who cares. It's free diversity estate! Change it to... rolls dice detection!"
Sure, Bosmer have a justification for better eyesight but at the expense of stealth? No justification found.
Even giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt and letting the dodgeroll passive movement speed and penetration stand as it is. Bosmer have been better at sneaking than Khajiit in two out of three recent Elder Scrolls games and even in the 1 in 3 they had a bonus to sneaking (just not higher than Khajiit). ZOS thinks "meh who cares. It's free diversity estate! Change it to... rolls dice detection!"
Sure, Bosmer have a justification for better eyesight but at the expense of stealth? No justification found.
And in skyrim I believe it was kahjiits that had a better eyesight passive as well.
If you are a Bosmer werewolf can you test if you get a speed bonus for roll dodge? I have my roll dodge bound to a key so when I press it in WW form I dodge things even if it doesn’t animate the wolf rolling. I want to know if doing this makes faster werewolves. Hasty Retreat from the bow skill line doesn’t make ww faster but this might. And if it does... lololololol
I actually don't mind it terribly, but it's just Hasty Retreat+.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »This is (probably) my last effort to try to get ZOS to open their eyes and see the community's feedback regarding Bosmer race changes before they go live. I'm doing my best to write about this objectively (I play multiple races in multiple roles), and with as much logic and reasoning as possible, regarding both balance and lore.
1) Roll Dodge Speed Boost Doesn't Make Sense
Yes, this is just weird.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »2) Weird, Conditional Penetration Bonus
I quoted the whole thing because it needed to be repeated. But I disagree with the getting why they removed it. It was silly to remove it. It remains silly. Did Bretons get their bonus to magic removed because Altmer already had it? Why do Reguards get a bonus to stamina, isn't that a Bosmer exclusive? Of course not, and it's ridiculous to think it necessary in order to make the races distinct. The whole issue with stealth has been completely mismanaged and was ill-conceived from the start.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »3) Stealth Removal and Your Consistent Silence
By removing stealth bonuses you are flat out ignoring the stealth aspect of Bosmer lore. Rite of Theft, sneaky hunters, and even one of the Bosmeri culture's most famous and renowned poems (Meh Ayleidion, which means "The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding") all speak to Bosmeri reliance on stealth. We get why you removed their stealth bonuses -- you want each class to feel different and decided to go with Khajiit for sneak bonuses -- but in doing that you are ignoring lore and upsetting some of your players who built their characters around the fact that Wood Elves have had sneak bonuses. You are choosing to remain steadfast in your position to maintain lore inaccuracy and the racial dismantling of builds that were specifically built around a lore-inspired theme and play style.
Sadly, I agree and have uninstalled the PTS for that reason.Razorback174 wrote: »ZoS is not one for reverting anything...
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »I actually don't mind it terribly, but it's just Hasty Retreat+.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »This is (probably) my last effort to try to get ZOS to open their eyes and see the community's feedback regarding Bosmer race changes before they go live. I'm doing my best to write about this objectively (I play multiple races in multiple roles), and with as much logic and reasoning as possible, regarding both balance and lore.
1) Roll Dodge Speed Boost Doesn't Make SenseYes, this is just weird.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »2) Weird, Conditional Penetration BonusI quoted the whole thing because it needed to be repeated. But I disagree with the getting why they removed it. It was silly to remove it. It remains silly. Did Bretons get their bonus to magic removed because Altmer already had it? Why do Reguards get a bonus to stamina, isn't that a Bosmer exclusive? Of course not, and it's ridiculous to think it necessary in order to make the races distinct. The whole issue with stealth has been completely mismanaged and was ill-conceived from the start.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »3) Stealth Removal and Your Consistent Silence
By removing stealth bonuses you are flat out ignoring the stealth aspect of Bosmer lore. Rite of Theft, sneaky hunters, and even one of the Bosmeri culture's most famous and renowned poems (Meh Ayleidion, which means "The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding") all speak to Bosmeri reliance on stealth. We get why you removed their stealth bonuses -- you want each class to feel different and decided to go with Khajiit for sneak bonuses -- but in doing that you are ignoring lore and upsetting some of your players who built their characters around the fact that Wood Elves have had sneak bonuses. You are choosing to remain steadfast in your position to maintain lore inaccuracy and the racial dismantling of builds that were specifically built around a lore-inspired theme and play style.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »2) Weird, Conditional Penetration Bonus
In the PTS Notes v4.3.2 developer comments you stated that you didn't want to add more passive power to Bosmer. That's fine, but the conditional penetration bonus after a roll dodge is just weird in how it fits into the game. Why not follow the suggestion above, and remove the bonus to move speed (which has already proved to cause PVP concern) in favor of reduced cost for dodge roll (which makes more sense) and then implement a flat penetration bonus that is active at all times? You would be taking some power away (move speed) and adding a little power elsewhere (flat penetration bonus). If there would be balance issues with a flat bonus, then consider reducing the total amount of penetration that the flat bonus gives -- it doesn't have to be as high as the 1500 penetration that is currently tied to Hunter's Eye dodge roll.
Good. Creepy little cannibals.If that's the goal, they succeeded.Bosmer are a dead-end race now.
Lord_Dexter wrote: »You do not represent an entire community,
I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.
Everyone their best race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.
I am fine with Bosmer changes!
The bolded part. The reason provided was internally inconsistent and self-contradictory.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »We definitely understand why they made the choice they did because they told us. Their reasoning doesn't make sense, however, so that is the part worth disagreeing about.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »You do not represent an entire community,
I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.
Everyone their best race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.
I am fine with Bosmer changes!
Balanced can be achieved without breaking lore and making changes that don't make sense. I think you are talking about racial passives from a balance perspective, but I can't say I that I fully understand your post.
Lord_Dexter wrote: »You do not represent an entire community,
I do not agree with you and fine with current racial changes. Races should not be Over Performing.
Everyone want their favourite race to perform all roles and outshines others which is clearly a wrong way and ZOS is currently doing fine and racial passives are pretty much balanced.
I am fine with Bosmer changes!
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »We definitely understand why they made the choice they did because they told us. Their reasoning doesn't make sense, however, so that is the part worth disagreeing about.
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Yeah. Kinda mind blowing when you think about it, right?