Dissapointed with the final patch

mattproulx

Arciris wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It's going to be hard for me to enjoy this game if I don't like how my character looks. Maybe it's time for another break. Hopefully Elder Scrolls 6 will be released by the end of the year.

Why don't you just play the race you like? The ~5-7% difference from best to worst race is totally negligible.

Since some people only understand numbers, here are some for you:

You are given 1 car, to choose out of 10.

1. 150 miles per hour top speed
2. 148 miles per hour
3. 146 miles per hour
4. 144 miles per hour
5. 6.7.8.9.10. you get the picture...

The problem is that the cars also have different colors:
1. Yellow
2. Green
3. Blue
4. Red
5. you get the picture.

Now you like red cars, so you pick 4. You then go to your local pub to show of your new car to your friends... they all laugh at you because you picked 4, because it's not the fastest ride.

Numbers do not matter but no one likes to pick the worst of lot. It goes against every instinct we humans have, makes us feel stupid.

So what you're saying is get rid of racial passives and classes. Everyone can all be 1 and if they aren't its by their own design.

Loralai_907

I know it isn't personal. That isn't the point. When a significant number of people are saying something is garbage and to please look at it again, one hopes that they will go ok they hate that, what else can we do? Instead, it was like we were all raving about how amazing the changes are and how much we just looooooove them. My issue is they didn't even try to make it less stupid.

Arciris

mattproulx wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It's going to be hard for me to enjoy this game if I don't like how my character looks. Maybe it's time for another break. Hopefully Elder Scrolls 6 will be released by the end of the year.

Why don't you just play the race you like? The ~5-7% difference from best to worst race is totally negligible.

Since some people only understand numbers, here are some for you:

You are given 1 car, to choose out of 10.

1. 150 miles per hour top speed
2. 148 miles per hour
3. 146 miles per hour
4. 144 miles per hour
5. 6.7.8.9.10. you get the picture...

The problem is that the cars also have different colors:
1. Yellow
2. Green
3. Blue
4. Red
5. you get the picture.

Now you like red cars, so you pick 4. You then go to your local pub to show of your new car to your friends... they all laugh at you because you picked 4, because it's not the fastest ride.

Numbers do not matter but no one likes to pick the worst of lot. It goes against every instinct we humans have, makes us feel stupid.

So what you're saying is get rid of racial passives and classes. Everyone can all be 1 and if they aren't its by their own design.

Some people only understand numbers... and some people only understand...???
A hint: no. I'm not saying to get rid of racials or classes

GallantGuardian

DKMaestro wrote: »

Arbit wrote: »

argonians are now the worst race again... thanks for the terrible patch notes...

Sky is falling! Sky is falling!

The changes are miniscule! Everyone lose or gain a bit on the damage end, but 98% of all players will never notice.

People - please grow a pair and stop obsessing about racials. I wonder how you go through life? I imagine that it goes something like this:

"Should I get a whopper or a Big Mac today?"...
"Oh the coices...."
"Well, a whopper is flame-broiled, so it has that going for it"
"But a Big Mac is the king of burgers!"

Random burger expert drops by and says: "Don't you know that burgers are bad for you? No one eats burgers anymore - we all now want burritos from Taco Bell"

You now go to Taco Bell and order a burrito that you don't enjoy - but at least you can rest assured that everyone else have told you it is the best choice.

This is exactly how I feel

All these sheep

I was in a guild chat the other day and asking for advice on how to build a healer

And someone was telling them
The straight down meta race/class/ gear

I said pick whatever race and class you want figure out what gear works for you keep in mind you’re support so you’ll probably like a set or two that helps the group ...

If you wanna be a Redguard healer then be one

And I was told I was making them
A “halfarse” healer

Cool so make this guy hate his build that will keep him
Playing.

If was only allowed tobe a dragon knight argonian to play tank I’d quit the game

mattproulx

GallantGuardian wrote: »

DKMaestro wrote: »

Arbit wrote: »

argonians are now the worst race again... thanks for the terrible patch notes...

Sky is falling! Sky is falling!

The changes are miniscule! Everyone lose or gain a bit on the damage end, but 98% of all players will never notice.

People - please grow a pair and stop obsessing about racials. I wonder how you go through life? I imagine that it goes something like this:

"Should I get a whopper or a Big Mac today?"...
"Oh the coices...."
"Well, a whopper is flame-broiled, so it has that going for it"
"But a Big Mac is the king of burgers!"

Random burger expert drops by and says: "Don't you know that burgers are bad for you? No one eats burgers anymore - we all now want burritos from Taco Bell"

You now go to Taco Bell and order a burrito that you don't enjoy - but at least you can rest assured that everyone else have told you it is the best choice.

This is exactly how I feel

All these sheep

I was in a guild chat the other day and asking for advice on how to build a healer

And someone was telling them
The straight down meta race/class/ gear

I said pick whatever race and class you want figure out what gear works for you keep in mind you’re support so you’ll probably like a set or two that helps the group ...

If you wanna be a Redguard healer then be one

And I was told I was making them
A “halfarse” healer

Cool so make this guy hate his build that will keep him
Playing.

If was only allowed tobe a dragon knight argonian to play tank I’d quit the game

Why cant more people play this way?

jhall03

No need for me to come back to the PTS subforum for a few months now. I've enjoyed watching everyone whine and complain over the past month. I'm excited for change. See you in game

Cres

GallantGuardian wrote: »

DKMaestro wrote: »

Arbit wrote: »

argonians are now the worst race again... thanks for the terrible patch notes...

Sky is falling! Sky is falling!

The changes are miniscule! Everyone lose or gain a bit on the damage end, but 98% of all players will never notice.

People - please grow a pair and stop obsessing about racials. I wonder how you go through life? I imagine that it goes something like this:

"Should I get a whopper or a Big Mac today?"...
"Oh the coices...."
"Well, a whopper is flame-broiled, so it has that going for it"
"But a Big Mac is the king of burgers!"

Random burger expert drops by and says: "Don't you know that burgers are bad for you? No one eats burgers anymore - we all now want burritos from Taco Bell"

You now go to Taco Bell and order a burrito that you don't enjoy - but at least you can rest assured that everyone else have told you it is the best choice.

This is exactly how I feel

All these sheep

I was in a guild chat the other day and asking for advice on how to build a healer

And someone was telling them
The straight down meta race/class/ gear

I said pick whatever race and class you want figure out what gear works for you keep in mind you’re support so you’ll probably like a set or two that helps the group ...

If you wanna be a Redguard healer then be one

And I was told I was making them
A “halfarse” healer

Cool so make this guy hate his build that will keep him
Playing.

If was only allowed tobe a dragon knight argonian to play tank I’d quit the game

Sounds similar to a discussion i had with someone a long time ago. He was worried about swapping his Breton magsorc to stam. While not meta or best, there were some advantages...but everyone else just wanted to call it trash.

Finedaible

mattproulx wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

The unwillingness to listen to player feedback is honestly insulting at this point. I've just about had enough.

Listen to who? The vocal whiners? Cant please everyone. Delusional to think they're purposely sabotaging you.

You are attempting to extrapolate a false opinion from my comment.

While I may hold my personal preferences in choice of play-style (in this context races), I only wish balance and role diversity across all Elder Scrolls races, a goal that ZoS - supposedly - shares. I do not believe the current 4.3.4 iteration of racial passives achieved this goal. The change from percentage based bonuses to static bonuses was a good start in the right direction, and I think most will agree with me when I say that patch 4.3.0 was the best step in the right direction. At the very least most race-players were content with that first patch (although Bosmer losing stealth for dodge-roll was terrible idea). Presently, ZoS has taken several steps backwards from into the wrong direction, and made some very arbitrary and un-called for changes to racial passives with exceedingly vague reasoning behind them, which brings us to the present "whiners" as you put it. It may seem like whining, but many players here do care about the future of the game, and the developers are not going to know what isn't expressed by the players.

Jhalin

Argonians and Khajiit and Bosmer now have no niche they do competitively

Khajiit can only dps, and are no better than third pick in any circumstance

Bosmer has subpar stamina damage, lost their stealth passive, got a passive that can’t be used in PvE, and one that requires a stam drain to use for a meager amount of time

Argonians were always bottom of the damage barrel and now get outclassed as tanks and healers after the huge nerfs with no buffs anywhere in sight, Bretons and Imperials easily outsustain, and Nord ulti regen brings higher buff uptimes and built in defenses that allow for more comfortable use of Alkosh

GallantGuardian

Arciris wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It's going to be hard for me to enjoy this game if I don't like how my character looks. Maybe it's time for another break. Hopefully Elder Scrolls 6 will be released by the end of the year.

Why don't you just play the race you like? The ~5-7% difference from best to worst race is totally negligible.

Since some people only understand numbers, here are some for you:

You are given 1 car, to choose out of 10.

1. 150 miles per hour top speed
2. 148 miles per hour
3. 146 miles per hour
4. 144 miles per hour
5. 6.7.8.9.10. you get the picture...

The problem is that the cars also have different colors:
1. Yellow
2. Green
3. Blue
4. Red
5. you get the picture.

Now you like red cars, so you pick 4. You then go to your local pub to show of your new car to your friends... they all laugh at you because you picked 4, because it's not the fastest ride.

Numbers do not matter but no one likes to pick the worst of lot. It goes against every instinct we humans have, makes us feel stupid.

If they laugh at you for your preference then they weren’t good friends to begin with and your best option is to rid your self of that type of toxicity

Arciris

@GallantGuardian

This was a quick example i picked out of the top of my head in a hurry, so maybe not the best pick.

The point here is not so much about what your friends think about you but more about how your own choice makes you feel,

So let's say there's a basket of apples... some are too green, some too mature (borderline rotten) and only one or two are on point.
Would you feel good about yourself if you picked the borderline rotten apple?

We are designed to make the best possible choice. It is a survival tool.
When you realize you didn't picked the best apple of the basket, you feel bad, bad enough to learn from that mistake.

As of friends laughing about you, it doesn't have to be in the wrong way. Friends laugh at each other all the time, it's part of what friendship is. Now if they exclude you from their friendship because you picked the wrong car, now that's toxic.

Ogou

Finedaible wrote: »

mattproulx wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

The unwillingness to listen to player feedback is honestly insulting at this point. I've just about had enough.

Listen to who? The vocal whiners? Cant please everyone. Delusional to think they're purposely sabotaging you.

You are attempting to extrapolate a false opinion from my comment.

While I may hold my personal preferences in choice of play-style (in this context races), I only wish balance and role diversity across all Elder Scrolls races, a goal that ZoS - supposedly - shares. I do not believe the current 4.3.4 iteration of racial passives achieved this goal. The change from percentage based bonuses to static bonuses was a good start in the right direction, and I think most will agree with me when I say that patch 4.3.0 was the best step in the right direction. At the very least most race-players were content with that first patch (although Bosmer losing stealth for dodge-roll was terrible idea). Presently, ZoS has taken several steps backwards from into the wrong direction, and made some very arbitrary and un-called for changes to racial passives with exceedingly vague reasoning behind them, which brings us to the present "whiners" as you put it. It may seem like whining, but many players here do care about the future of the game, and the developers are not going to know what isn't expressed by the players.

So the other people saying that the changes are fine don't care about the future of the game? Like or hate the changes (I still don't like all of them). The races are going to be a lot more balanced now than they were before.

Moonsorrow

Nox_Noir wrote: »

Bosmer clearly had no sneaky racial passive anymore, was detected..

One final attempt:

ZOS please, save the bosmer from this horrible fate, keep the current stealth passive and be awesome. You know you want to be awesome.

BaylorCorvette

I'm fine with everything as it stands on this current PTS cycle.

SirMewser

mattproulx wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

The unwillingness to listen to player feedback is honestly insulting at this point. I've just about had enough.

Listen to who? The vocal whiners? Cant please everyone. Delusional to think they're purposely sabotaging you.

Well... Everyone has been saying something along these lines....

mommadani907 wrote: »

I know it isn't personal. That isn't the point. When a significant number of people are saying something is garbage and to please look at it again, one hopes that they will go ok they hate that, what else can we do? Instead, it was like we were all raving about how amazing the changes are and how much we just looooooove them. My issue is they didn't even try to make it less stupid.

Oh and welcome to Elder Scrolls Online!!

IzzyStardust

Seraphayel wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It's going to be hard for me to enjoy this game if I don't like how my character looks. Maybe it's time for another break. Hopefully Elder Scrolls 6 will be released by the end of the year.

Why don't you just play the race you like? The ~5-7% difference from best to worst race is totally negligible.

Why don’t you stop telling other people what is negligible for them. Thanks.

Aedrion

They have failed completely and totally in every way this patch.

Not only is every cancerous problem still in there, entirely unaddressed. They ruined mobility even more. Soon we'll all drown in snares. Performance remains *** as it's been for years.

On top of that the goal of making each race have more diverse options of playstyles is probably one of the biggest failures of design I've ever seen. Instead of opening up playstyles with morphs and diverse traits for each race, they pigeon-holed every race into one bracket and nothing else.

Orc - Stam Burst
Redguard - Stam Sustain
Altmer - Mag Burst
Breton - Mag Sustain
Nord - Tank
Imperial - Tank
Bosmer - Bowblade
Kajiit - Snipetard
Argonian - Healer

The levels of incompetence are becoming lethal. I don't know if this is still Wrobel or if it's Gilliam but if this is the way forward, I'd like a raft to endure the tide of sh*t that rises to drown us all.

Finedaible

Ogou wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

mattproulx wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

The unwillingness to listen to player feedback is honestly insulting at this point. I've just about had enough.

Listen to who? The vocal whiners? Cant please everyone. Delusional to think they're purposely sabotaging you.

You are attempting to extrapolate a false opinion from my comment.

While I may hold my personal preferences in choice of play-style (in this context races), I only wish balance and role diversity across all Elder Scrolls races, a goal that ZoS - supposedly - shares. I do not believe the current 4.3.4 iteration of racial passives achieved this goal. The change from percentage based bonuses to static bonuses was a good start in the right direction, and I think most will agree with me when I say that patch 4.3.0 was the best step in the right direction. At the very least most race-players were content with that first patch (although Bosmer losing stealth for dodge-roll was terrible idea). Presently, ZoS has taken several steps backwards from into the wrong direction, and made some very arbitrary and un-called for changes to racial passives with exceedingly vague reasoning behind them, which brings us to the present "whiners" as you put it. It may seem like whining, but many players here do care about the future of the game, and the developers are not going to know what isn't expressed by the players.

So the other people saying that the changes are fine don't care about the future of the game? Like or hate the changes (I still don't like all of them). The races are going to be a lot more balanced now than they were before.

Ogou, you are pulling a straw man just like the previous poster. I never said that players who think current 4.3.4 changes are good do not care about the future of the game.

MartiniDaniels

Seraphayel wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It's going to be hard for me to enjoy this game if I don't like how my character looks. Maybe it's time for another break. Hopefully Elder Scrolls 6 will be released by the end of the year.

Why don't you just play the race you like? The ~5-7% difference from best to worst race is totally negligible.

You are right that "one set bonus" difference of imbalance we have now means anything only in 5% of content and situations, and of course it's not that this small thing make people enraged. This is combination of factors:
1. ESO is RPG and from one side RPG is about creating builds. This 5-7% is difference between julianos and perfected siroria (in battle conditions, not on dummy), so you worked hard to get to high CP, to optimize your build and rotation, to run vCR many times to finally get full set of items, then to run a lot of pledges/BGs to transmute to optimal traits. And now this all is thrown to window, because you may just craft julianos in 15 minutes on another race for same result.
2. ESO is RPG, and from second side this is about role-playing. You don't need to look far to see how role-playing was wrecked for bosmer, khajiit, dunmer, altmer etc.. With new passives this races are very different from what they were before.
3. All the issues were talked on forum for a month and there is quite clear threads, especially about bosmers - that majority of bosmers against this changes and asking to revert stealth detection back to stealth radius. This won't affect balance in any way, it's purely roleplay passive but despite of ton of feedback it is ignored completely.
4. Initially it was advertised that new racial passives will allow more diversity. No! They don't provide anything, it's same meta of few races and all of them are pigeonholed to one role, with exception of bretons.

So despite mostly good start at 4.3.0 ZOS finished at 4.3.4 with a lot of pointless changes, which actually change nothing from gameplay side but *** off at least 50% of community.

TL;DR - changes bring nothing new to gameplay, feedback ignored, lore is wrecked, >50% of player base nerfed, what's the point of all this? And if devs can't explain reason for this changes, how you can trust them about future of ESO and what's the point for you to invest your time further in this game? Story and graphics which are "good for MMO", yep they are good for MMO, but they don't hold a candle to any good single player game released in last 10 years. Combat and PVP? with awful lags and arcade mechanics, no, thanks. Guilds and friends - yep, that's the only factors worth staying in ESO, but you talk in discord with them anyway and may play other games together if you are really that close.

Ogou

Finedaible wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

mattproulx wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

The unwillingness to listen to player feedback is honestly insulting at this point. I've just about had enough.

Listen to who? The vocal whiners? Cant please everyone. Delusional to think they're purposely sabotaging you.

You are attempting to extrapolate a false opinion from my comment.

While I may hold my personal preferences in choice of play-style (in this context races), I only wish balance and role diversity across all Elder Scrolls races, a goal that ZoS - supposedly - shares. I do not believe the current 4.3.4 iteration of racial passives achieved this goal. The change from percentage based bonuses to static bonuses was a good start in the right direction, and I think most will agree with me when I say that patch 4.3.0 was the best step in the right direction. At the very least most race-players were content with that first patch (although Bosmer losing stealth for dodge-roll was terrible idea). Presently, ZoS has taken several steps backwards from into the wrong direction, and made some very arbitrary and un-called for changes to racial passives with exceedingly vague reasoning behind them, which brings us to the present "whiners" as you put it. It may seem like whining, but many players here do care about the future of the game, and the developers are not going to know what isn't expressed by the players.

So the other people saying that the changes are fine don't care about the future of the game? Like or hate the changes (I still don't like all of them). The races are going to be a lot more balanced now than they were before.

Ogou, you are pulling a straw man just like the previous poster. I never said that players who think current 4.3.4 changes are good do not care about the future of the game.

You didn't outright say it but that's exactly what your comment is implying.

Masel

martijnlv40 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

If you expected a change, you either didn't look at those latest parse numbers or created so much noise that is overshadowed a race that needed the change.

Overall the races are readyto ship. You'll either have to redo your build or get a new pve guild that isn't going to kick you for 500 avg DMG decrease lol

As I said, it was mostly about the utility passives, not the stats. And also, Argonian and Bosmer in PvE?

Bosmer is totally fine and competitive in PvE.

It's a bit worse than redguard, which is exactly the same flavor-wise. And it's not really good on PvP either.

Edit: From th3asiangod (new gilliam in my opinion)
That's one of the biggest differences in dps with these new racials, together with Argonians. Also, their utility passive is sh*t.

You (or he) can calculate sustain between Bosmer and redguard all you like. As soon as you get into a fight where you can't proc that adrenaline rush on CD, Bosmer outright beats redguard.

And I'd be careful with calling him the new Gilliam. He is doing a lot of math, while Gilliam focused on active parsing.

That said, calculations do not translate into the game very accurately if important variables are left out.

Ertosi

Nox_Noir wrote: »

How did he not see his attackers coming? Hunter's Eye must truly be worthless.

Ratzkifal

Remind me again why ZOS didn't simply nerf the value for the crit chance Khajiit were getting? Surely they would be more in line with the other races if the crit chance went down just a little bit. Right?

martijnlv40

Masel wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

martijnlv40 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

If you expected a change, you either didn't look at those latest parse numbers or created so much noise that is overshadowed a race that needed the change.

Overall the races are readyto ship. You'll either have to redo your build or get a new pve guild that isn't going to kick you for 500 avg DMG decrease lol

As I said, it was mostly about the utility passives, not the stats. And also, Argonian and Bosmer in PvE?

Bosmer is totally fine and competitive in PvE.

It's a bit worse than redguard, which is exactly the same flavor-wise. And it's not really good on PvP either.

Edit: From th3asiangod (new gilliam in my opinion)
That's one of the biggest differences in dps with these new racials, together with Argonians. Also, their utility passive is sh*t.

You (or he) can calculate sustain between Bosmer and redguard all you like. As soon as you get into a fight where you can't proc that adrenaline rush on CD, Bosmer outright beats redguard.

And I'd be careful with calling him the new Gilliam. He is doing a lot of math, while Gilliam focused on active parsing.

That said, calculations do not translate into the game very accurately if important variables are left out.

Yeah he calculates a lot, but always gives those disclaimers, and he also parses a lot. As you might see in the screenshot...

SaintSubwayy

Royaji wrote: »

soynegroyque wrote: »

I wonder if we will have a mass extinction of players like we had in Morrowind.
Good times.

I would say if something like that were to happen, it would've been with Murkmire and shield changes. Race changes will have minimal effect on most players.

Yes, but shield changes were not tied into a crownstore item like tokens
(Besides the 3 we get for free)
If they wouldnt provide tokens for free many more players would leave
And in the combo with the ignorance of acknowleding the performance issues which increase neraly on a daily basis, nor the minimum ov commintication about it, its a wonder that not more ppl have left or unsubbed by now

Juhasow

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I thought for sure, they would touch on the high elf one last time. I'm quite surprised at that one.

If any change was likely it was Stealth for Bosmer because of obvious lore reasons. Altmer were not in need of any changes.

Yeah because altmer mages restoring stamina sounds so reasonable to the lore... If anything then bosmers are closer to lore with stealth detection then altmers with restoring lower resource. Not that I would care about the lore just pointing out clear bias.

rabidmyers

same

BlueRaven

Juhasow wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I thought for sure, they would touch on the high elf one last time. I'm quite surprised at that one.

If any change was likely it was Stealth for Bosmer because of obvious lore reasons. Altmer were not in need of any changes.

Yeah because altmer mages restoring stamina sounds so reasonable to the lore... If anything then bosmers are closer to lore with stealth detection then altmers with restoring lower resource. Not that I would care about the lore just pointing out clear bias.

"If anything then bosmers are closer to lore with stealth detection" based on....?

In skyrim Kahjits had the better eyesight passive (not that I wish this stealth detect passive on anyone) so how are they closer to lore?

MLGProPlayer

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Remind me again why ZOS didn't simply nerf the value for the crit chance Khajiit were getting? Surely they would be more in line with the other races if the crit chance went down just a little bit. Right?

Because everyone knows that a sledgehammer is better for making tweaks to something than a chisel.

Cundu_Ertur

Juhasow wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I thought for sure, they would touch on the high elf one last time. I'm quite surprised at that one.

If any change was likely it was Stealth for Bosmer because of obvious lore reasons. Altmer were not in need of any changes.

Yeah because altmer mages restoring stamina sounds so reasonable to the lore... If anything then bosmers are closer to lore with stealth detection then altmers with restoring lower resource. Not that I would care about the lore just pointing out clear bias.

This is factually incorrect. There is not the slightest shred of lore to support improved detection for the Bosmer. That Bosmer are hunters is irrelevant because EVERY RACE HAS HUNTERS. On the other hand, Bosmers have been consistently defined by three things, in lore and in previous games: the Green Pact, Archery, and Stealth. Not stealth detection, but actual 'able to hide better' stealth. As Raven mentions, Khajiit have always had a detection ability (in Morrowind and Oblivion, as well as Skyrim) called Night Eye. So if any race should be crippled with the detection ability, it should be them. Not that I've ever called for that, I wouldn't wish this useless bucket of slop on my worst enemy.

The thing is, this was a solution to a problem that never existed. That Bosmer and Khajiit shared the same stealth passive was never a problem from a lore standpoint. They came from the same original people. The original elves of Valenwood either followed Y'ffre into the Green Pact and became Bosmer, or followed Azura and became Khajiit. So for them to share some racial traits is entirely understandable.