Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

DreadDaedroth

RogueShark wrote: »

They should both just have the damn passive. ZoS is silly for cherry-picking in this instance.

Indeed, I find this mentality of every race having every passive unique to them blind ,silly and lorebreaking. Sharing one similar passive doesn't make the races too similar or close to another.

Jaraal

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Really want an alternative to a thief build. Yeah I like kitties but would like a choice. Now there really isn't one. Short range stealth detect is worthless too outside of very limited PvP situations.

If it works in PvP, you couldn't prove it by me. I was crouched 6 feet away from an enemy player in a delve, waiting for the boss to spawn, and I could not see them with maxed Hunter's Eye. I had to cast Evil Hunter before I could actually see them.

shimm

I would just like hunter’s eye changed to... anything else. Worst passive of any racial passive.

Alucardmike

shimm wrote: »

I would just like hunter’s eye changed to... anything else. Worst passive of any racial passive.

Yes. Something more useful, like +10% cuteness or -5% probabilty to sneeze...

wedgebert

Alucardmike wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

I would just like hunter’s eye changed to... anything else. Worst passive of any racial passive.

Yes. Something more useful, like +10% cuteness or -5% probabilty to sneeze...

Careful now, -5% chance to sneeze would be pretty OP during allergy season

Ratzkifal

Hmm, isn't that Khajiit build pretty strong in capture the relic? Unless people use caltrops constantly, you can get there completely unseen.

Tigerseye

If I have to go back to stealing for a living, in this xpac, then I need my stealth back.

I made a lot of gold doing mind-numbing rounds of the inns, when I first returned to the game; as I had no other way of making gold, back then and needed it to buy houses, furnishings and plans.

I thought I had moved past that, when I started selling furnishings for a living.

They then nerfed the droprate of furnishing mats and/or didn't increase it, as the number of players doing furnishing increased.

So, I had to stop doing that, as I didn't even have enough mats to make my own furniture, anymore.

Fortunately, in Summerset, it was possible to switch to doing multiple dailies for motifs.

Currently, all (or most) of the dailies in Elsweyr seem to be bugged for me.

So, there is no guarantee I will be able to do the same in this chapter.

Look at Caan - months after Summerset launched and still bugged.

..and this isn't just one quest, it's (at least) two.

Not only that, but the dragons award peanuts, so unless you get a purple furnishing plan (which is, or will be, very rare), you will not make much from them, in the longer run.

I don't particularly want to go back to stealing, almost exclusively, but if I have to, I will need stealth and we shouldn't be forced to level another race just to get back what we already had.

If they wanted to get rid of all racials, entirely, then I would be OK with that, but getting rid of one that people picked their race for, while not actually making anything more balanced, is just another reason to not want to carry on.

Not only that, but as I mentioned in another thread, even if I do level a Khajiit to steal, I will have to spend all my gold on bag upgrades, for a long time, so what is the point?

A lot of people (especially furnishers) have already paid enough into this game, without feeling forced to level alts they don't want to level.

I don't particularly want to quit, but if I have to, I will.

I don't make empty promises.

Quit both WoW and GW2, with no problems at all and will happily quit this too, if I have to.

Jaraal

Tigerseye wrote: »

I don't particularly want to quit, but if I have to, I will.

I don't make empty promises.

Quit both WoW and GW2, with no problems at all and will happily quit this too, if I have to.

See, this is what I don't understand. Many, many people have said this in this thread, some have actually quit and uninstalled, and virtually nobody is creating new Bosmer characters..... and a total of zero players have said stealth detection is beneficial the way it's currently set up. And we are but a fraction of the frustrated players that also fail to see the logic of this change. But they'd rather feel "right" about the decisions they made, than have happy (and paying) players.

Somebody help me understand it, because they sure aren't saying anything about it.

Tasear

Just want to say without bumping. I support this movement.

Alucardmike

wedgebert wrote: »

Alucardmike wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

I would just like hunter’s eye changed to... anything else. Worst passive of any racial passive.

Yes. Something more useful, like +10% cuteness or -5% probabilty to sneeze...

Careful now, -5% chance to sneeze would be pretty OP during allergy season

You forgot, that Bosmer have natural immunity to allergy. Or was this also removed like stealth?

Ratzkifal

Alucardmike wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

Alucardmike wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

I would just like hunter’s eye changed to... anything else. Worst passive of any racial passive.

Yes. Something more useful, like +10% cuteness or -5% probabilty to sneeze...

Careful now, -5% chance to sneeze would be pretty OP during allergy season

You forgot, that Bosmer have natural immunity to allergy. Or was this also removed like stealth?

Pretty sure Allergy immunity falls under disease resistance, which indeed we lost as well

DarkerDreams

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pretty sure Allergy immunity falls under disease resistance, which indeed we lost as well

Yep. We can still eat what we kill, but no guarantee you won't get sick from it now.

Glad to see this thread still going.

Quiet_One

I find it extremely silly that suddenly two races which obviously both are stealth focused can't have a stealth passive? They don't have to be the same passive, just both have a stealth bonus in them. Bosmers have always struck me as the stealthy and archer kind, just like wood elves are in many other universes outside of TES.

I do have a bosmer character who I made to be the stealth type, but at this point I can say I'd speak out even if I didn't, it's just that silly.

Alucardmike

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Alucardmike wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

Alucardmike wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

I would just like hunter’s eye changed to... anything else. Worst passive of any racial passive.

Yes. Something more useful, like +10% cuteness or -5% probabilty to sneeze...

Careful now, -5% chance to sneeze would be pretty OP during allergy season

You forgot, that Bosmer have natural immunity to allergy. Or was this also removed like stealth?

Pretty sure Allergy immunity falls under disease resistance, which indeed we lost as well

I think, allergy is more like poison...

BlueRaven

I find it a hard concept to believe that wood elves, of all the races, would have issues with pollen.

jlmurra2

I'm glad this thread is still going strong. The Bosmer stealth passive loss was one of the two most glaring lore inconsistencies brought about by the recent racial passive changes. The Argonian's poison resistance loss being the other.

I understand that the Khajiit are the most stealthy race, yet the Bosmer are well know for this as well, and should have some reduction to their detection radius. For example if Khajiit have a 3m reduction, then the Bosmer would have a 2m reduction.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

jlmurra2 wrote: »

I understand that the Khajiit are the most stealthy race, yet the Bosmer are well know for this as well, and should have some reduction to their detection radius. For example if Khajiit have a 3m reduction, then the Bosmer would have a 2m reduction.

But they aren't

Jaraal

Agreed.

I've seen many in game references to Bosmer stealth, but can't recall anything from books or npc dialogues about Khajiit stealth........ other than the new back and forth in the Rimmen Outlaw's Refuge.

MartiniDaniels

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

jlmurra2 wrote: »

I understand that the Khajiit are the most stealthy race, yet the Bosmer are well know for this as well, and should have some reduction to their detection radius. For example if Khajiit have a 3m reduction, then the Bosmer would have a 2m reduction.

But they aren't

Yep, actually passives are completely mismatched. In original lore Bosmers are more stealthy and better thieves, while Khajiits have better night vision and are acrobats so should have reduced fall damage and increased speed after jump/roll.
But salespersons know that khajiits are like one of distinctive features of ESO, so their racials are made to be useful and universal for average new player of Elsweyr, while bosmer's are like collection of least desired passives and useful only as niche for PVP.

Cundu_Ertur

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

jlmurra2 wrote: »

I understand that the Khajiit are the most stealthy race, yet the Bosmer are well know for this as well, and should have some reduction to their detection radius. For example if Khajiit have a 3m reduction, then the Bosmer would have a 2m reduction.

But they aren't

Yep, actually passives are completely mismatched. In original lore Bosmers are more stealthy and better thieves, while Khajiits have better night vision and are acrobats so should have reduced fall damage and increased speed after jump/roll.
But salespersons know that khajiits are like one of distinctive features of ESO, so their racials are made to be useful and universal for average new player of Elsweyr, while bosmer's are like collection of least desired passives and useful only as niche for PVP.

In Morrowwind and Oblivion Bosmer were more sneaky, but Khajiit had some sneakiness and better skill picking locks and pockets. The only reason why Khajiit got more stealth in Skyrim was because Acrobatics disappeared entirely, and since each race had only one main skill and Bosmer had Archery as their main this left stealth as the main skill for Khajiit. Naturally, Bosmer now have no bonus to using bows and no bonus to stealth, meaning there is not one shred of their identity left now.

No-one is fooled: the Devs got Bosmer completely wrong. The time is long passed for them to admit this and indicate how they will correct it.

KMarble

Left4Daud wrote: »

@KMarble

If it's "working as intended" it's fundamentally not broken, by definition. You could argue that it's unbalanced. But it's not actually broken.

For the record, I was the poster/tester that initially brought Khajiit super stealth stacking to light back during the Wrathstone PTS, which prompted the devs to make the following changes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Khajiit

Feline Ambush: Decreased the reduction of your Stealth radius to 3m from 5m.

Developer Comment:

With the introduction of CP scaling with the flat stats of the races, we made sure to make some minor adjustments so Khajiit wouldn't fall behind the other races. The bonus to the stealth radius was also slightly over tuned and allowed you to sneak too effectively. Now, you shouldn't be able to sneak in the face of guards and wave unless you've heavily invested into sneaking with gear and other passives.

You shouldn't be able to sneak in the face of guards and wave unless you've heavily invested into sneaking with gear and other passives.

That is from the devs themselves.

It's working as intended.

Thank you for correcting me. For some reason, I missed that dev comment. I was wrongly assuming they lowered the stealth back then because it was too much (IMO, it was) and nothing else.

Now I see that there was another element, which we didn't know about back then, the gear set.

haelene

Still a useless passive. Stealth or no stealth, give me something I can actually use.

Jaraal

And the more I think about it, the more it appears to me that the whole back and forth dialogue between the Khajiit and the Bosmer in Rimmen about who are the better thieves is ZOS' tongue in cheek way of responding to this entire discussion.

BlueRaven

Jaraal wrote: »

And the more I think about it, the more it appears to me that the whole back and forth dialogue between the Khajiit and the Bosmer in Rimmen about who are the better thieves is ZOS' tongue in cheek way of responding to this entire discussion.

I must have missed this, where is it?

Jaraal

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

And the more I think about it, the more it appears to me that the whole back and forth dialogue between the Khajiit and the Bosmer in Rimmen about who are the better thieves is ZOS' tongue in cheek way of responding to this entire discussion.

I must have missed this, where is it?

Go to the Outlaw's Refuge in Rimmen, talk to both fences. They each have about four lines of dialogue about what race makes the better thieves.

KMarble

Jaraal wrote: »

And the more I think about it, the more it appears to me that the whole back and forth dialogue between the Khajiit and the Bosmer in Rimmen about who are the better thieves is ZOS' tongue in cheek way of responding to this entire discussion.

OT: It isn't the only one "response" to forum threads either. I laughed when I went through the dialogue to get the new inn room.

That one has nothing what-so-ever to do with this discussion, but I thought it was funny, and a clever way to communicate with parts of their audience.

Cundu_Ertur

Jaraal wrote: »

And the more I think about it, the more it appears to me that the whole back and forth dialogue between the Khajiit and the Bosmer in Rimmen about who are the better thieves is ZOS' tongue in cheek way of responding to this entire discussion.

The problem is that after this silly racial change from Wrathstone, there's no possible debate: Khajiit and only Khajiit are the best thieves. Bosmer have not one single buff to any skill that is in any way related to thievery. So even having the debate means that the change is still lore-breaking, it even violates the lore that has come afterwards.

I am getting increasingly frustrated at both the change itself and the maladroit way it has been handled since.

Jaraal

Let's be careful to keep the tone of the discussion civil. Granted, it was a callous blow to lore and immersion.... but nothing constructive can come from insults.

Alucardmike

Jaraal wrote: »

Let's be careful to keep the tone of the discussion civil. Granted, it was a callous blow to lore and immersion.... but nothing constructive can come from insults.

But the only "answer" from ZOS, was because of the insults.

JadeCoin

Alucardmike wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Let's be careful to keep the tone of the discussion civil. Granted, it was a callous blow to lore and immersion.... but nothing constructive can come from insults.

But the only "answer" from ZOS, was because of the insults.

The hope is that they're listening, even if they don't answer. I mentioned it before, but some insiders have told us the devs do take feedback seriously when they make decisions. We have no way of knowing, of course, but an open channel of communication is better than nothing.

Insults may provoke a response, but a person provoked might also stop listening. And that would be a shame, because we have an awful lot of things worth saying here.