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Buff Magika Warden please
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_Ahala_✭✭✭✭✭
✭Buff is probably not the right word... Giving Magden an overall buff right now would make it broken op... What It needs is a general rework...
In top tier duels it gets absolutely destroyed as it’s combos are stupid predictable and practically impossible to land against people who root, snare and dance. An increase to magicka mobility in general would make root and high percent snare spammer less of a hard counter to shalks while also offering some counter play to the brainless and arguably overtuned permafrost and blockade of frost or northern storm and shock clench spam combos.
Thehe skill ceiling and general feel of Magden would be much better if ZOS decreased of the effectiveness of deep fissure and permafrost in exchange for a rework of the offensive synergy of the animal companion line (I’m looking at you Synchonistically Challenged Cliff Racer and also you Absolutely Boring Fletcher Flies) and a sweeping offensive rework to some of the virtually unused Winter Embrace morphs such as Expansive Frost Cloak (which was literally just made into a garbage item set), Arctic Blast (shock clench... enough said), Crystallized Slab (why would you ever chose this over Shimmering Shield?) and Frozen Retreat (
Because pulling an ally to safety while pulling enemies makes sense)...
Magden used to be something truly fun and unique before our offensive combos and mobility were taken from us... This meta of wait until Sleet Storm is up and spam Master Lightning Shock Clench on pugs is really really really really really boring compared to the old high octane fissure racer combos that were possible back in the day...
So in short. From the perspective of someone who’s only really mained Magden since Vvaedenfell. No, Magden doesn’t need a flat buff as Ashanne showcased with that meta Magden clip but it does need a serious rework as only a few of its offensive abilities are of any useEdited by _Ahala_ on February 27, 2019 2:37AM9 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Buff is probably not the right word... Giving Magden an overall buff right now would make it broken op... What It needs is a general rework...
In top tier duels it gets absolutely destroyed as it’s combos are stupid predictable and practically impossible to land against people who root, snare and dance. An increase to magicka mobility in general would make root and high percent snare spammer less of a hard counter to shalks while also offering some counter play to the brainless and arguably overtuned permafrost and blockade of frost or northern storm and shock clench spam combos.
Thehe skill ceiling and general feel of Magden would be much better if ZOS decreased of the effectiveness of deep fissure and permafrost in exchange for a rework of the offensive synergy of the animal companion line (I’m looking at you Synchonistically Challenged Cliff Racer and also you Absolutely Boring Fletcher Flies) and a sweeping offensive rework to some of the virtually unused Winter Embrace morphs such as Expansive Frost Cloak (which was literally just made into a garbage item set), Arctic Blast (shock clench... enough said), Crystallized Slab (why would you ever chose this over Shimmering Shield?) and Frozen Retreat ( Because pulling an ally to safety while pulling enemies makes sense)...
Magden used to be something truly fun and unique before our offensive combos and mobility were taken from us... This meta of wait until Sleet Storm is up and spam Master Lightning Shock Clench on pugs is really really really really really boring compared to the old high octane fissure racer combos that were possible back in the day...
So in short. From the perspective of someone who’s only really mained Magden since Vvaedenfell. No, Magden doesn’t need a flat buff as Ashanne showcased with that meta Magden clip but it does need a serious rework as only a few of its offensive abilities are of any use
Would still technically be a buff though. But to other areas of magden. I fully get and support your statements though.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX3 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭Buff is probably not the right word... Giving Magden an overall buff right now would make it broken op... What It needs is a general rework...
In top tier duels it gets absolutely destroyed as it’s combos are stupid predictable and practically impossible to land against people who root, snare and dance. An increase to magicka mobility in general would make root and high percent snare spammer less of a hard counter to shalks while also offering some counter play to the brainless and arguably overtuned permafrost and blockade of frost or northern storm and shock clench spam combos.
Thehe skill ceiling and general feel of Magden would be much better if ZOS decreased of the effectiveness of deep fissure and permafrost in exchange for a rework of the offensive synergy of the animal companion line (I’m looking at you Synchonistically Challenged Cliff Racer and also you Absolutely Boring Fletcher Flies) and a sweeping offensive rework to some of the virtually unused Winter Embrace morphs such as Expansive Frost Cloak (which was literally just made into a garbage item set), Arctic Blast (shock clench... enough said), Crystallized Slab (why would you ever chose this over Shimmering Shield?) and Frozen Retreat ( Because pulling an ally to safety while pulling enemies makes sense)...
Magden used to be something truly fun and unique before our offensive combos and mobility were taken from us... This meta of wait until Sleet Storm is up and spam Master Lightning Shock Clench on pugs is really really really really really boring compared to the old high octane fissure racer combos that were possible back in the day...
So in short. From the perspective of someone who’s only really mained Magden since Vvaedenfell. No, Magden doesn’t need a flat buff as Ashanne showcased with that meta Magden clip but it does need a serious rework as only a few of its offensive abilities are of any use
After PVPing quite a bit on my Magden I'm just about ready to throw in the towel on this car wreck of a class (magden side) due to all of it's chunkiness and unfinished feel. The slow, delayed attacks of the birds and the shalks as mentioned do not match well. Sure if I'm sitting back pelting someone with birds I do OK (I stress..ok). The problem occurs when I get someone in my face like NB. It takes forever for my birds to hit and by the time I'm fired off shalks I've been hit by their same spam attack 3 times for big numbers and once again liek you said with all of the rolling and dancing around landing it can be super tough if not impossible. Flies..forget flies if someones in your face because I have to spam that ability twice to even start ramping up damage while once again they've face rolled 2 more suprise attack/ambush/steel tornado. Hell even from a distance hitting someone from flies doesn't seem to do jack crap. I've tried spamming clench and force pulse, both which suck as well. Like you said, this class(magden) from a pvp standpoint is getting boring due to slow ass attacks, lack of added abilities on morphs and waiting for sleet storm. I really want ZOS to get their heads out of their butt and look into the magden before they unleash the necro and forget about our ass even more. Nature classes is what I play in MMO and I want this class to work. I'm trying to hang in their but I'm slowly getting bored and irritated with the lack of help from ZOS.
Sorry for the quick , messy paragraph but I saw this and had to post something on my break at work.
Edited by Zardayne on March 4, 2019 5:57PM4 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fetcher Infection should be the Warden's equivalent of Poison Injection and get increased damage the lower the target's health is, ramping up to 200% in the end. This would help a lot and solve many problems.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Fetcher Infection should be the Warden's equivalent of Poison Injection and get increased damage the lower the target's health is, ramping up to 200% in the end. This would help a lot and solve many problems.
I've always felt the same way. The way it is right now I hardly see any return for having to double cast a damn dot.0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭I play and magden for PvP solely. I have an amazing time. However 2 skills in the frost line are pretty useless. This could help fix some of the issues. Fetcher could use a alternative Morph over all and just increase the damages of the base ability by 50%. The limited damage kit we already have this shouldn't cause to many issues.0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭@Zardayne what build are you runnings? What's your bar? Magden is in a very strong spot in PvP atm0
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Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne what build are you runnings? What's your bar? Magden is in a very strong spot in PvP atm
I've tried many different ones. Some of the latest sets I've ran were bright throat/necro with bloodspawn , necro/spinners/bloodspawn, and pariah/necro with skoria.
I'm at work but my skill bar looks something like:
Bar 1-Harness Mag, cliff racer (sometimes lightning clench), fissure, fetcher infection (sometimes crystal slab here), Bird of prey ULT- Northern storm
Bar 2- Trellis, mutagen, Either fetcher infection or winters revenge, blue betty, ice fortress ULT- Life giver or meteor
CP similar to Alcast's pvp magwarden setup.
I've mixed in inner light on my main bar on occasion but I try to load up as many animals on my main bar for increased damage. With some builds I've been over 50k mag. I went back to running 5 spinners and that seemed to help a bit with hitting harder but I still was no overwhelming force.
I feel kind of like a one trick pony waiting on northern/perma. Even then I'm not dropping them like flies. My tool tip on cliff racer shows around 10.5 to 12k now but unless I hit a newb in green armor out there I'm hitting around 3200-4k ish a hit. Sure occasionally I'll see a 4500 but normally it's lower from what I have seen. Ultimately I feel the problem is just the slow cast speed of cliff racers and the delayed shalks. When I play my stamplar and Magdk I don't have this delayed fighting and I always feel I did well. This weekend I played mostly in Cyrodiil and damn NBs were tearing my ass apart. I mean by the time I fired off fissure and got a racer off he had already hit me 3 times for some big time shots (6K plus according to my deathcap) and this was from multiple one on one encounters. Before any of my damage has really hit I'm already backpeddling and in full defensive mode trying to recover. The slow-mo just seems to be a hindrance in a lot of encounters. I do decent against other ranged spellcasters/archers but that's only due to crystal slab/shield. Anyway it's just frustrating having to slot northern and a full animals bar just to try and hit respectable DPS when other classes can spam the same ability or two over and over FTW. IMO of course...Edited by Zardayne on March 4, 2019 10:38PM1 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭Another thing is Alcasts builds are often times very offensive, they are designed to nuke and if you can't murder them in the 1 to 2 second rotation the. Your probably going to die yourself. For some people that doesn't work well for them.1
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ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »Another thing is Alcasts builds are often times very offensive, they are designed to nuke and if you can't murder them in the 1 to 2 second rotation the. Your probably going to die yourself. For some people that doesn't work well for them.
I stopped trusting alcast when the build suggested crystallized slab saying it does good damage. It absolutely does not do good damage after testing on NPCs in Non Battle-Spirit Areas on a full PvE build. and if you're using it over shimmering shield in PvP, you're absolutely gimping yourself. I'm sorry.
Its like shooting a slow frozen pea.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on March 4, 2019 11:19PMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »Another thing is Alcasts builds are often times very offensive, they are designed to nuke and if you can't murder them in the 1 to 2 second rotation the. Your probably going to die yourself. For some people that doesn't work well for them.
I stopped trusting alcast when the build suggested crystallized slab saying it does good damage. It absolutely does not do good damage and if you're using it over shimmering shield, you're absolutely gimping yourself.
Crystallized Slab is great for procing monster sets but beyond that it's meh. I don't use the skill at all because harnesses Magkica is better and I'm thinking about switching to the other Morph here rescently. If the skill was out on pair with DKs reflect it would be worth it to use but because warden passives don't offer much of anything in the frost line and the skills is meh over all its not really worth it when there are better options.Edited by alexj4596b14_ESO on March 4, 2019 11:21PM0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire. I'm just going to continue to tweak my build and hopefully I'll get to where I'm happy with it for PVP. I do appreciate the offer to help Alex but I've been RVR pvping since the Daoc days so I feel pretty good about my play. Not the best but definitely a veteran. I'm just having hell combating the faster, harder hitters that are in my face in pvp that don't have to count to 3 Mississippi for their burst to happen. Once again, thanks for the offer.Edited by Zardayne on March 5, 2019 2:40AM0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.Edited by alexj4596b14_ESO on March 5, 2019 2:17AM0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
What server do you play on?0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »Well its strong in pvp so I cant agree with a buff
The whole class need to be changed honestly. The pve side of the class is trash, but pvp is strong. Idk how to even fix it honestly other then complete and total rework.Edited by alexj4596b14_ESO on March 5, 2019 3:00AM1 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
What server do you play on?
I'm on NA in the EP
I usually play on VivecEdited by Zardayne on March 5, 2019 3:08AM0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans. I'm not saying that everyone doesnt like them or cant relate I'm just saying generally people who didn't play morrowind would/could see the Nature class and be confused when the themes are just so messy. It may be a large contributing factor to why there isn't much appeal to magden. Not to mention people thought they could be a damaging ice mage but were duped into it trying to be strictly tanking even though ZOS had to break the rule to make Winter's Revenge useful. The 1 line for tanking damaging and healing is very ineffective on warden because it was done so so poorly. Lets hope that Necromancer is made with genuine care.
They've left the now out of place bear and Frost Magic on the class. To me this class is so utterly horribly planned and executed in the damage department and its been thematically butchered and that's that its why it IS bad and boring on top of nerfs and changes taking away the shalk-racer-pulse combo. I believe that the Green Balance line was the first fleshed out and made because the Frost line was apart of a new (and really poor) Frost=Tank ideology. I cant recall any major changes to Green Balance that change how everything works.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on March 5, 2019 3:48AMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
They've left the now out of place bear and Frost Magic on the class. To me this class is so utterly horribly planned and executed in the damage department and thematically butchered and that's that its why it IS bad and boring on top of nerfs and changes taking away the shalk-racer-pulse combo. I believe that the Green Balance line was the first fleshed out and made because the Frost line was apart of a new (and really poor) Frost=Tank ideology. I cant recall any major changes to Green Balance that change how everything works.
I'd agree with all of that.1 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
THIS the whole line sucks thematically. The pets and bleh animation wise the overall skills are eh and the ice line passive and abilities wise are just eh.Edited by alexj4596b14_ESO on March 5, 2019 4:08AM1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
THIS the whole line sucks thematically. The pets and bleh animation wise the overall skills are eh and the ice line passive and abilities wise are just eh.
I sort of agree. I do like Bear, Winter's Revenge, Ice Fortress and Sleet Storm thoughPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
THIS the whole line sucks thematically. The pets and bleh animation wise the overall skills are eh and the ice line passive and abilities wise are just eh.
I sort of agree. I do like Bear, Winter's Revenge, Ice Fortress and Sleet Storm though
out all all the things there are in these two lines, 4 i can agree with you
the Passives really need a looking at, actualy only the passives for the Frost line need to be looked at.Edited by alexj4596b14_ESO on March 5, 2019 4:56AM0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
THIS the whole line sucks thematically. The pets and bleh animation wise the overall skills are eh and the ice line passive and abilities wise are just eh.
I sort of agree. I do like Bear, Winter's Revenge, Ice Fortress and Sleet Storm though
out all all the things there are in these two lines, 4 i can agree with you
the Passives really need a looking at, actualy only the passives for the Frost line need to be looked at.
I also think the passives need to be worked on. Especially Glacial Presence. Chilled needs a seperate effect unique to wardens. Many people liked a "+10% critical damage to chilled enemies" ideaPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
THIS the whole line sucks thematically. The pets and bleh animation wise the overall skills are eh and the ice line passive and abilities wise are just eh.
I sort of agree. I do like Bear, Winter's Revenge, Ice Fortress and Sleet Storm though
out all all the things there are in these two lines, 4 i can agree with you
the Passives really need a looking at, actualy only the passives for the Frost line need to be looked at.
I also think the passives need to be worked on. Especially Glacial Presence. Chilled needs a seperate effect unique to wardens. Many people liked a "+10% critical damage to chilled enemies" idea
only issues i have is that it does not effect damage for pvp, i would like it to be while chilled recive more damage from other damage types. it still follows the wardens basic idea and applys to everything in game.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
THIS the whole line sucks thematically. The pets and bleh animation wise the overall skills are eh and the ice line passive and abilities wise are just eh.
I sort of agree. I do like Bear, Winter's Revenge, Ice Fortress and Sleet Storm though
out all all the things there are in these two lines, 4 i can agree with you
the Passives really need a looking at, actualy only the passives for the Frost line need to be looked at.
I also think the passives need to be worked on. Especially Glacial Presence. Chilled needs a seperate effect unique to wardens. Many people liked a "+10% critical damage to chilled enemies" idea
only issues i have is that it does not effect damage for pvp, i would like it to be while chilled recive more damage from other damage types. it still follows the wardens basic idea and applys to everything in game.
it does effect PvP. it's a bit more of a helpful buff to PvE though. obviously crit resist is a thing in PvP. increasing all other damage types on enemies is way too similar to vulnerability. This sort of effect makes it better for the DD itself and also begins to establish a frostdps=crit ideology at least on Magden. on top of Iceheart's increased crit chance from slotting. If tanking stays on the frost staff then we go with the penetration and armor resistances ideology on it. But we could perhaps start to go with a crit ideology across the board. Not just on Magden, if the idea is agreed upon and gains enough traction. This is yet to be decided though.
once we have a clear view of what the community wants we can push for it and develop ideas around it. But for now it's establish Frost Dps as a very clear and viable damage type of Magden with some added critical bonus to chilled via glacial presence along with some unique and helpful frost dps skills to the group.
For the Frost Staff, it's make the weapon more useful across the board. With a tank buff via adding more powerful armor reduction with a reworked Tri Focus and Elemental Susceptibility and a DPS buff (only just beginning to formulate) with Icy Rage gaining a reduced ultimate cost to put it on par with Firey and Thunderous Rage.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on March 5, 2019 1:10PMPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne what build are you runnings? What's your bar? Magden is in a very strong spot in PvP atm
I've tried many different ones. Some of the latest sets I've ran were bright throat/necro with bloodspawn , necro/spinners/bloodspawn, and pariah/necro with skoria.
I'm at work but my skill bar looks something like:
Bar 1-Harness Mag, cliff racer (sometimes lightning clench), fissure, fetcher infection (sometimes crystal slab here), Bird of prey ULT- Northern storm
Bar 2- Trellis, mutagen, Either fetcher infection or winters revenge, blue betty, ice fortress ULT- Life giver or meteor
CP similar to Alcast's pvp magwarden setup.
I've mixed in inner light on my main bar on occasion but I try to load up as many animals on my main bar for increased damage. With some builds I've been over 50k mag. I went back to running 5 spinners and that seemed to help a bit with hitting harder but I still was no overwhelming force.
I feel kind of like a one trick pony waiting on northern/perma. Even then I'm not dropping them like flies. My tool tip on cliff racer shows around 10.5 to 12k now but unless I hit a newb in green armor out there I'm hitting around 3200-4k ish a hit. Sure occasionally I'll see a 4500 but normally it's lower from what I have seen. Ultimately I feel the problem is just the slow cast speed of cliff racers and the delayed shalks. When I play my stamplar and Magdk I don't have this delayed fighting and I always feel I did well. This weekend I played mostly in Cyrodiil and damn NBs were tearing my ass apart. I mean by the time I fired off fissure and got a racer off he had already hit me 3 times for some big time shots (6K plus according to my deathcap) and this was from multiple one on one encounters. Before any of my damage has really hit I'm already backpeddling and in full defensive mode trying to recover. The slow-mo just seems to be a hindrance in a lot of encounters. I do decent against other ranged spellcasters/archers but that's only due to crystal slab/shield. Anyway it's just frustrating having to slot northern and a full animals bar just to try and hit respectable DPS when other classes can spam the same ability or two over and over FTW. IMO of course...
Consider giving my old setup a try:
5 War Maiden
5 BTB/Necro
2 Slimecraw
Front Bar: Fetchers, Shalks, Cliff Racer, Flame Reach, Inner Light, Northern Storm/Soul Assault
Back Bar: Leeching Vines, Crystal Shield, Harness Magicka, Ice Fortress, Betty, Life Giver
General rotation was Shalks, Fetcher (double cast), Reach, Racer spam. Shalks hits when they’re knocked back, and the combo of that plus racer spam is pretty potent 1v1. I switch back to that build whenever I get bored of playing my frost support build in BGs, and usually finish with the best K/D ratio and the highest score. Just transmute one ring to Bloodthirsty to resolve the execute damage issue. You don’t need the extra magicka if you’re running BTB (or Necro), Inner Light, and Northern Storm on your front bar.0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne what build are you runnings? What's your bar? Magden is in a very strong spot in PvP atm
I've tried many different ones. Some of the latest sets I've ran were bright throat/necro with bloodspawn , necro/spinners/bloodspawn, and pariah/necro with skoria.
I'm at work but my skill bar looks something like:
Bar 1-Harness Mag, cliff racer (sometimes lightning clench), fissure, fetcher infection (sometimes crystal slab here), Bird of prey ULT- Northern storm
Bar 2- Trellis, mutagen, Either fetcher infection or winters revenge, blue betty, ice fortress ULT- Life giver or meteor
CP similar to Alcast's pvp magwarden setup.
I've mixed in inner light on my main bar on occasion but I try to load up as many animals on my main bar for increased damage. With some builds I've been over 50k mag. I went back to running 5 spinners and that seemed to help a bit with hitting harder but I still was no overwhelming force.
I feel kind of like a one trick pony waiting on northern/perma. Even then I'm not dropping them like flies. My tool tip on cliff racer shows around 10.5 to 12k now but unless I hit a newb in green armor out there I'm hitting around 3200-4k ish a hit. Sure occasionally I'll see a 4500 but normally it's lower from what I have seen. Ultimately I feel the problem is just the slow cast speed of cliff racers and the delayed shalks. When I play my stamplar and Magdk I don't have this delayed fighting and I always feel I did well. This weekend I played mostly in Cyrodiil and damn NBs were tearing my ass apart. I mean by the time I fired off fissure and got a racer off he had already hit me 3 times for some big time shots (6K plus according to my deathcap) and this was from multiple one on one encounters. Before any of my damage has really hit I'm already backpeddling and in full defensive mode trying to recover. The slow-mo just seems to be a hindrance in a lot of encounters. I do decent against other ranged spellcasters/archers but that's only due to crystal slab/shield. Anyway it's just frustrating having to slot northern and a full animals bar just to try and hit respectable DPS when other classes can spam the same ability or two over and over FTW. IMO of course...
Consider giving my old setup a try:
5 War Maiden
5 BTB/Necro
2 Slimecraw
Front Bar: Fetchers, Shalks, Cliff Racer, Flame Reach, Inner Light, Northern Storm/Soul Assault
Back Bar: Leeching Vines, Crystal Shield, Harness Magicka, Ice Fortress, Betty, Life Giver
General rotation was Shalks, Fetcher (double cast), Reach, Racer spam. Shalks hits when they’re knocked back, and the combo of that plus racer spam is pretty potent 1v1. I switch back to that build whenever I get bored of playing my frost support build in BGs, and usually finish with the best K/D ratio and the highest score. Just transmute one ring to Bloodthirsty to resolve the execute damage issue. You don’t need the extra magicka if you’re running BTB (or Necro), Inner Light, and Northern Storm on your front bar.
Thanks @Aurielle, I might try that. At one time I bought War Maidens in hopes to try it out one day but I never did and ended up selling it. I might give it a go this time. I wouldn't mind trying slimecraw but I feel I'd miss my defenses/ult of bloodspawn.0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »All I was saying is I looked at Alcast's CP setup on the build. I was hoping maybe I was missing something in my build that would help in increase my damage or offer me a bit more protection.
I will second after some testing of my own Crystallized slab is sub par compared to the other morph, especially when it's all about building up for permafrost.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »@Zardayne
So our bars are pretty much the same. I dropped northern storm for the other Morph because you really don't need a stun and the 8% damage reduction when you jump into a group to nuke them is amazing.
One thing I have learned is that the Beatles are your spam not the bird. The only time you use the bird is when the Beatles are priming to go off and that additional damage is really needed. I also dropped the stun and replaced it with fetcher. The stun is nice but more then likely your fight a DK which is just going to reflect that stun back at you. They can't reflect the DoT. The dot also acts like a excute. By the time I have hit them with Beatles twice and 3 birds while they are standing in WoE they are dead.
If you play on NA I could definitely help you out. Now I'm not saying I'm the best pvper but I could probably get you and the warden functional.
Please keep in mind I only do BGs and IC so this may not work for you. I don't like play horse simmulator
Oh in Cyrodiil I only spam the birds when there's a ranged standoff. Once we close in, I go to spamming shalks. Unfortunately a lot changes in 3 seconds in mass battle so by the time they fire off you might not even have a target in line of fire.
The Beatles have almost the range of the bird. But yah they are a pain to aim.
I think that's what frustrates me the most is the delay and then trying to line it up on a rolling, dancing target. When they miss after 3 seconds, that hurts lol.
I also hate the double cast on the flies. Drives me nuts.
I think the damage portion of magwarden is bad and unfinished. SCR is contrary to Fissure which is really bad. Its much easier to hit fissure when you're close range and SCR rewards you for being at a distance. Swarm is boring and the double cast is just random. Winter's Revenge is also very generic (not to mention it was a change from a completely useless Impaling Shards Morph). It's not bad but its the only frost damage ability magden has which isn't enough on top of the only non ultimate damage skills. Most of the skills are just absolutely boring and just deal raw damage. Deep Fissure is our center skill and the most interesting one we have. I definitely think SCR and Swarm need changes. We need more damaging skills too with group utility and a unique synergy. The best place to implement these are in Winters Embrace with the amount of poor performing or even useless morphs. It helps not only magden but gives cryomancers some real skills to work with. We need help especially when it comes to group utility, and skill variety. As a class i see Animal Companions and Winters Embrace as being extremely flawed skill lines. Green Balance is an absolute gem though. Most morphs/Skills are useful and feel really awesome to use while looking very beautiful.
With Animal Companions i noticed something really interesting. Warden has nothing to do with Vvardenfell or Morrowind really in general. I say this because when the class was advertised we saw a Bear and Frost magic. Neither these things are related to Morrowind because I've never seen a non-warden bear in Morrowind and Morrowind is known for its Volcanos, Swamps and Wastelands. Not its Ice Fields. This makes me think Warden wasn't intended to be associated with Morrowind. But, rather, Skyrim or even just Tamriel itself. I think they realised that the class may have needed to relate in some way to Morrowind because they paired the class with its release. So they made the spammable a Cliff Racer, its damage buff a Netch Calf and its DoT a swarm of Fetcher Flies, they then made the Haj Mota into 3 Shalks to appeal to morrowind fans and give it a sense of relation to Vvardenfell. This sucks because the Druid/Hunter class is left with mostly unrelateable and alien animals. The Bear is relateable because its something everyone has grown up with everyone knows what a bear is and you can make many interpretations of a bear. It being a fluffy giant or a grizzly menace. Something up to you and why people like the bear. But not everyone has grown up with Shalks, Fetcher Flies and Cliff Racers which are so alien to us humans.
THIS the whole line sucks thematically. The pets and bleh animation wise the overall skills are eh and the ice line passive and abilities wise are just eh.
I sort of agree. I do like Bear, Winter's Revenge, Ice Fortress and Sleet Storm though
I do like the Bear myself but not as a double ultimate. I wish it was like the summon wolves in EQ2 @ 1:45 in the vid below. A one bar ultimate that was a temporary summons for damage and knockdown. That way I could use it in Cyrodiil as well as soloing. Right now he's not dependable and with the shoddy pet controls ZOS gives us makes it tough to control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcAMCy3iPi8 Edited by Zardayne on March 5, 2019 3:37PM0
