Buff Magika Warden please

ESO_Nightingale

Ashanne wrote: »

cherry pick? all this was footage from ONE DAY. Look at the addon counting kills and deaths, also look at the time on the minimap. 266 killing blows and 13 deaths, one session. not sure what youre trying to say

I'm trying to say that a video like this only shows the BEST parts of magden. you can find these for all classes. the class does actually need help. a LOT more so in PvE. but in PvP for example, our class stun is hilariously garbage and our big burst tool is really easy to predict. i'm not saying you can't do great, but the problems... they do have glaring problems that need to be fixed before they can really shine. most of the time the class acts as a support by stopping the enemy's movement, damn you see this a lot in the video.

ESO_Nightingale

Ashanne wrote: »

and before you say half the days footage wasnt in the vid, there is this thing called primetime, high latency and ping which makes for *** footage to watch, so obviously that isnt shown. Doesnt mean whatever happened at those hours shows magden outside the "cherry picks". the k/d still doesnt lie there its not like he died 100 times because magden is actually trash and he didnt want to show that part.

i wasn't going to say that.

Defilted

Yes please buff them I am sure all my PVP opponents would appreciate it.

kylewwefan

So you want Fetcher infection to have execute damage like poison injection. Sounds good to me!

And ice staff to have more Crit or Crit Damage or something...this also sounds good to me!

I’ve been playing frost warden a lot lately and pretty excited for the changes coming already. It looks like gonna fit my play style really well.


As for PvP, I’ve talked with a few other Frost wardens( there’s not many) and we kind of get the same thing. A lot of damage, but few kills. Could be an L2P? Or maybe we really do need a slight buff.

Ashanne

kylewwefan wrote: »

So you want Fetcher infection to have execute damage like poison injection. Sounds good to me!

And ice staff to have more Crit or Crit Damage or something...this also sounds good to me!

I’ve been playing frost warden a lot lately and pretty excited for the changes coming already. It looks like gonna fit my play style really well.


As for PvP, I’ve talked with a few other Frost wardens( there’s not many) and we kind of get the same thing. A lot of damage, but few kills. Could be an L2P? Or maybe we really do need a slight buff.

the issue i found with the whole Frost themed warden is that you trade off sooo much potential (burst) damage to become this "annoying ice-mage" everybody complains about. Sure the control frost skills give is very nice, combining something like Frost wall of elements and the wardens ice skills and passives to get high uptimes on chilled status effects but this is also the reason why its hard to buff this aspect. People already complain about not being able to move in pvp as it is, im afraid with buffs to this aspect there will be even worse nerfs following

ESO_Nightingale

Ashanne wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

So you want Fetcher infection to have execute damage like poison injection. Sounds good to me!

And ice staff to have more Crit or Crit Damage or something...this also sounds good to me!

I’ve been playing frost warden a lot lately and pretty excited for the changes coming already. It looks like gonna fit my play style really well.


As for PvP, I’ve talked with a few other Frost wardens( there’s not many) and we kind of get the same thing. A lot of damage, but few kills. Could be an L2P? Or maybe we really do need a slight buff.

the issue i found with the whole Frost themed warden is that you trade off sooo much potential (burst) damage to become this "annoying ice-mage" everybody complains about. Sure the control frost skills give is very nice, combining something like Frost wall of elements and the wardens ice skills and passives to get high uptimes on chilled status effects but this is also the reason why its hard to buff this aspect. People already complain about not being able to move in pvp as it is, im afraid with buffs to this aspect there will be even worse nerfs following

i think that nerfs to snares are inevitable. so in our letter to ZOS i talked about how snares are the only thing keeping frost relevant but that they are also too strong. it's sad that when people think snares they think frost but when people think frost they think snares. in reality the only really powerful frost snare skills that are used are frost wall and sleet storm. There is so much complaining about it that i'm willingly lowering the power of its control in the rework ideas to make it's damage actually good. i think it's for everyone's own good. frost mages get power to deal damage and people don't get snared as much. it's a win-win. i think compromising with it is really important because it shows ZOS that we are at least trying to think and not just ask for buffs and expect it all to be balanced.

Ashanne

but what will seperate frost then from fire and lightning WoE? If damage is really what people are looking for, fire and lighting will only get better in comparison because right now the only reason to use Frost WoE is the control it provides. Flame has the potential to do 25% more dmg to vampires, lighting can proc concuss and off balance, so how will frost be in any better state when the control is cut, but dmg increased? the only thing frost will then excel at (imo) is being able to block on the icestaff.

This ofcourse is me taking the senario in which the snare/root from frost becomes nerfed into uselessness. That being said tho, i do believe the snare/root is kind of out of balance (60% on ice, 70% on sleet) but i think only slight nerfs to this would be enough to "balance" the element.
Perhaps immobilize and snares needs a cooldown of some sort (not talking about the immunity from certain skills and rolldodge). This will still make frost the better element for control, as i dont believe frost needs to be on par dmg wise with fire or lightning. again thats just imo

ESO_Nightingale

Ashanne wrote: »

but what will seperate frost then from fire and lightning WoE? If damage is really what people are looking for, fire and lighting will only get better in comparison because right now the only reason to use Frost WoE is the control it provides. Flame has the potential to do 25% more dmg to vampires, lighting can proc concuss and off balance, so how will frost be in any better state when the control is cut, but dmg increased? the only thing frost will then excel at (imo) is being able to block on the icestaff.

This ofcourse is me taking the senario in which the snare/root from frost becomes nerfed into uselessness. That being said tho, i do believe the snare/root is kind of out of balance (60% on ice, 70% on sleet) but i think only slight nerfs to this would be enough to "balance" the element.
Perhaps immobilize and snares needs a cooldown of some sort (not talking about the immunity from certain skills and rolldodge). This will still make frost the better element for control, as i dont believe frost needs to be on par dmg wise with fire or lightning. again thats just imo

i've suggested replacing the infuriating root effect and nerfing snare to 30% (from 60%) and giving it an "up to" execute of up to 50% more damage below 50% health. that's a pretty smallish increase top damage. probably too small and may need a bigger effect. fire wall does a flat 20% more damage to burning enemies. then again, you can also have it do +10% crit chance/damage against chilled enemies. either works i guess. crit chance/damage thing works with the suggested 8% crit damage idea on ancient knowledge.

Zardayne

I don't play a frost magden in pvp, I play a standard magden. I run 5 piece necropotence, 5 mark of the pariah (which I've also tried Brass and spinners), and Valkyn Skoria and have around 44k mag and almost 26k health buffed up. I'm also a pvp veteran all the way back to the Ultima Online days so I'm experienced. I'm no expert but I've always been able to hold my own even when I played the most gimped class in Daoc, the blademaster (before any buffs). When I go out to PVP in Vivec most of the time if I'm at range spamming birds or force pulse I hardly see health bars move. Hit them with flies, their health doesn't move. My best hope for victory lies in me wading into melee, permafrost or northern storm being up and active, shalks connecting to the rolling spastic player after my 3 second countdown, and Skoria proccing. If those stars don't align in a one on one I'm toast. There is very little room for error. The occasion where I feel like a temporary badass is when I find that one newbie player wearing all light and green armor, running 13k health, and standing there like a deer in headlights. I'll also get some kills at chokepoints dropping my aoes and watching people dance all in it. That doesn't make me a killing machine. That proves they're inexperienced and/or overextending outside of their healers.

I am going to try spell strategist soon but I don't want to drop necro and due to having to wade in face to face with melee cats, I'm having a hard time giving up my heavy defensive sets.

On the flip side I've tried respeccing to stamden and I can put the hurt down on some folks. I even do way better on my stamplar or my magplar. Unfortunately that isn't what I want to play so all I can do is hope they look at some of our abilities and have mercy for once instead of nerfs to the Magden.

Zardayne

Ashanne wrote: »

Magden weak in pvp? you guys need a reality check lol..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N07izIv8EjM&t=

I watched that video and I'll admit I'm truly amazed at the damage he's putting out. I've tried spamming clench like he is and I don't see damage like that. The only time I see damage like that is if I encounter a player who is normally a pve player or just new to the game. If I encounter anyone with some skill and game knowledge it's a lot tougher. As I was watching that video I kept thinking this guy ran into the pve guild out in Cyrodiil for their weekly picnic. No way the majority of people out there are that squishy at least not what I run into on Vivec. I even run most of the same skills. All I can say is the gameplay looked good though. WIth 20+ years of MMO fighting experience I guess I'm still learning..

I will say this though..As a magden that guy in the vid is working way harder to get those kills than most other classes I've played. The magden takes a higher skill cap to pull off feats that other classes are able to do with only a few skills and a few hits with a lesser skilled player behind the keyboard. IMO of course..

ccmedaddy

@Zardayne IMO pariah is completely unnecessary on a magwarden unless you're building an actual tank. It's much better to stack max magicka so you have strong defense (big shields and heals) AND strong offense. And then swap Skoria out for Bloodspawn or Pirate Skeleton for survivability.

jaws343

ccmedaddy wrote: »

@Zardayne IMO pariah is completely unnecessary on a magwarden unless you're building an actual tank. It's much better to stack max magicka so you have strong defense (big shields and heals) AND strong offense. And then swap Skoria out for Bloodspawn or Pirate Skeleton for survivability.

I ran a max mag build for a while on my magden. The shield changes made it harder to pull off effectively. Still decent. But I just put together a build that stacks maj and min protection with the warden skills, alongside Wizards Reposte and Impreg. And I like it alot better than the max mag build. The survivability is crazy and it stills puts out moderate damage.

Zardayne

ccmedaddy wrote: »

@Zardayne IMO pariah is completely unnecessary on a magwarden unless you're building an actual tank. It's much better to stack max magicka so you have strong defense (big shields and heals) AND strong offense. And then swap Skoria out for Bloodspawn or Pirate Skeleton for survivability.

Isn't shields strength based off of health now? I believe mine use to be even higher.

I might try one of those other monster sets you suggest I'm just worried about gimping my damage further. Right now Skoria seems to help me have a bit more burst which is something I sorely needed when I started PVPing with the magden (IMO). My ranged abilities suck such as birds and force pulse (the wet noodles) so I run Pariah because I know I'm going to have to wade into melee to get kills with Shalks and Northern storm/Perma. I'm at work but I'm running 44k ish magica at the moment in pvp. I mean i know some folks get a bit higher but I've been trying to survive too. I don't run with any dedicated healers so it's up to me to stay afloat. I'll definitely take your advice though and do a bit more research into it. Thanks!

ccmedaddy

Shield still changes with max magicka. Yes it's capped based on health, but due to Battle Spirit you will basically never reach that cap in PvP unless you have 60k+ magicka.

And you don't really need the burst from Skoria because magwarden already has insane burst if you build correctly. On my Argonian magwarden using Necro and Bright Throat my birds have a tooltip of 14k dmg. Skoria tickles compared to that.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. Just chipping in my two cents since you were complaining about the lack of dmg on your magden.

Zardayne

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Shield still changes with max magicka. Yes it's capped based on health, but due to Battle Spirit you will basically never reach that cap in PvP unless you have 60k+ magicka.

And you don't really need the burst from Skoria because magwarden already has insane burst if you build correctly. On my Argonian magwarden using Necro and Bright Throat my birds have a tooltip of 14k dmg. Skoria tickles compared to that.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. Just chipping in my two cents since you were complaining about the lack of dmg on your magden.

Hey I appreciate the input for sure. I learn new stuff everyday and I'm not afraid to give it a shot. Thank you!

ESO_Nightingale

Zardayne wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Shield still changes with max magicka. Yes it's capped based on health, but due to Battle Spirit you will basically never reach that cap in PvP unless you have 60k+ magicka.

And you don't really need the burst from Skoria because magwarden already has insane burst if you build correctly. On my Argonian magwarden using Necro and Bright Throat my birds have a tooltip of 14k dmg. Skoria tickles compared to that.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. Just chipping in my two cents since you were complaining about the lack of dmg on your magden.

Hey I appreciate the input for sure. I learn new stuff everyday and I'm not afraid to give it a shot. Thank you!

Yeah I'd try Zaans @Zardayne, it's a good DoT

Iki

Ashanne wrote: »

but what will seperate frost then from fire and lightning WoE? If damage is really what people are looking for, fire and lighting will only get better in comparison because right now the only reason to use Frost WoE is the control it provides. Flame has the potential to do 25% more dmg to vampires, lighting can proc concuss and off balance, so how will frost be in any better state when the control is cut, but dmg increased? the only thing frost will then excel at (imo) is being able to block on the icestaff.

This ofcourse is me taking the senario in which the snare/root from frost becomes nerfed into uselessness. That being said tho, i do believe the snare/root is kind of out of balance (60% on ice, 70% on sleet) but i think only slight nerfs to this would be enough to "balance" the element.
Perhaps immobilize and snares needs a cooldown of some sort (not talking about the immunity from certain skills and rolldodge). This will still make frost the better element for control, as i dont believe frost needs to be on par dmg wise with fire or lightning. again thats just imo

What if they replaced ice-damages snare&root with armor debuff? Like, ice woe would apply minor fracture to all in it, and chilled status-effect could then apply bigger debuff of X amount. This could give back that armor debuffing that was lost when they changed night mothers and sunderflame back in the day. In pvp we would have less snares and roots and that`s exactly that should happen to make pvp more fun. Higher dps for ice-mages and less annying pvp is how I see result if this idea would actually happen.

ESO_Nightingale

Iki wrote: »

Ashanne wrote: »

but what will seperate frost then from fire and lightning WoE? If damage is really what people are looking for, fire and lighting will only get better in comparison because right now the only reason to use Frost WoE is the control it provides. Flame has the potential to do 25% more dmg to vampires, lighting can proc concuss and off balance, so how will frost be in any better state when the control is cut, but dmg increased? the only thing frost will then excel at (imo) is being able to block on the icestaff.

This ofcourse is me taking the senario in which the snare/root from frost becomes nerfed into uselessness. That being said tho, i do believe the snare/root is kind of out of balance (60% on ice, 70% on sleet) but i think only slight nerfs to this would be enough to "balance" the element.
Perhaps immobilize and snares needs a cooldown of some sort (not talking about the immunity from certain skills and rolldodge). This will still make frost the better element for control, as i dont believe frost needs to be on par dmg wise with fire or lightning. again thats just imo

What if they replaced ice-damages snare&root with armor debuff? Like, ice woe would apply minor fracture to all in it, and chilled status-effect could then apply bigger debuff of X amount. This could give back that armor debuffing that was lost when they changed night mothers and sunderflame back in the day. In pvp we would have less snares and roots and that`s exactly that should happen to make pvp more fun. Higher dps for ice-mages and less annying pvp is how I see result if this idea would actually happen.

Yes I've suggested this before. It would help pve tanks too. Its not a bad idea whatsoever. We've got the Tri Focus - Elemental Succeptibility rework idea which moves the taunt to elemental succeptibility and gives minor breach to the heavy attack to make it better for dps and tanks. But other than that, what if we could focus straight on DPS like suggested before on this post, give crit damage increases to frost and and have tank reworks to other skills like pulsar so shock/fire tanks can become an actual thing as well. So instead of "frost tanking" it can become "destruction staff tanking".

Ysbriel

Zardayne wrote: »

Ashanne wrote: »

Magden weak in pvp? you guys need a reality check lol..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N07izIv8EjM&t=

I watched that video and I'll admit I'm truly amazed at the damage he's putting out. I've tried spamming clench like he is and I don't see damage like that. The only time I see damage like that is if I encounter a player who is normally a pve player or just new to the game. If I encounter anyone with some skill and game knowledge it's a lot tougher. As I was watching that video I kept thinking this guy ran into the pve guild out in Cyrodiil for their weekly picnic. No way the majority of people out there are that squishy at least not what I run into on Vivec. I even run most of the same skills. All I can say is the gameplay looked good though. WIth 20+ years of MMO fighting experience I guess I'm still learning..

I will say this though..As a magden that guy in the vid is working way harder to get those kills than most other classes I've played. The magden takes a higher skill cap to pull off feats that other classes are able to do with only a few skills and a few hits with a lesser skilled player behind the keyboard. IMO of course..

Now the problem with the footage that you are using as an example points out what is wrong with the class and why its being able to be succesful.

First he relies on a non Class skill for the most as a damage output, to wait until that ultimate generates, besides that is also either pump the shalk beforehand because the 3 second wait and it can be seen here he is fighting a frantic group of zergs for the most, they are not even paying attention to the fact that he pumps the shalk and none of them since i didn't see a knockback on him , casted a reflective shield, all you see is the common me versus zergs highlights you see on most videos , why isnt he just spamming the birds instead of the reach? you can spam the Magblades funnel or the sap, you can spam the Dks whip, the templars spears and even spamm the cristal frags from the sorc and have everybody have a bad day.

On the PvE side the skill are affected as well, cause once again this class was advertised as a guy with a bear that uses powerful ice magic, when you use the costume he uses the artic blast animation. when you use the class, you have only one ice DPS skill, you HAD one ICE DPS heal but it got nerfed, and one ice ultimate, why can sorcs and Dks have 2 element related ulties and most of their skill line represent that element and not the warden? a lot of people when the topic of ICE DPS shows up the first thing they think is the frost staff, no i dont care about changing the frost staff, i want the CLASS SKILLS to have more ice damage skills, and have the rest of the skills really be reliable in every content.

the only 3 skills, not ultimates that have some multiple enemies hit going on are trash.



Growing Swarm
(Morph)


Unleash a swarm of Fetcherflies to relentlessly attack an enemy, dealing 1914 Magic Damage over 10 seconds.
When this ability ends, the fetcherflies infect up to 6 new targets near the enemy.
Spreads to nearby enemies WHEN IT ENDS <

---

Deep Fissure
(Morph)


Stir a group of Shalk that attacks --> AFTER 3 SECOND<--, dealing 1276 Magic Damage to enemies in front of you.
Enemies damaged are afflicted with Major Breach, reducing their Spell Resistance by 5280 for 5 seconds.
Reduces enemy Spell Resistance

Only ice DPS that is not an ultimate, and the damage is underwhealming compared to templars shards and sorcerers liquid lightning,

Conjure icy shards around you to skewer enemies in the area, dealing 198 Frost Damage in the area every 1 second over 12 seconds and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds.
Summons at targeted instead of around you. Damage scales on Max Magicka and Spell Damage.


The only nerf warden you will hear is about the ultimate, god forbid an ultimate skill that is not a Dawnbreaker, Elemental Sorm, Meteor, and so on so forth is powerfull. All other classes have heavy, fast hitting skills and ultimates, the warden just has one good ultimate for damage.

Joxer61

Sadly flogging a dead horse here folks. Until they change the passives for frost staff we will NEVER be on par as damage dealers, in terms of trying to make frost a thing. Its simply not damage in the damage sense of the word. Its a de-buff, a stun, a slow, and reduces damage done, but not damage you are doing. One might run lightning on front bar and swap once aoes on back bar are down....for the aoe bonus, but then that's it and it aint much. And that's a lot of bar swapping...ALOT. Not fun for me for sure. Hell, with my lat im lucky if my bar swaps at all, and even then it randomly swaps back...lol.

So, unless they add to frost maybe the same mechanic/effect as fire in that target can explode, or something of that nature....a true frost mage is sadly on ice. (pun intended)

Now for pvp...hell yes!! Because roots and slows and stuns and reductions are what you are after...but not pve.

You missed the target on this one ZOS...but hey, they giving us NECROS so cant complain!!!!

Trancestor

In PvP Magden is a great class to have in a group, especially if specced as a support build, but when it comes to solo and dueling, Magden is the most predictable and easy to counter class by a competent player, sure, Permafrost can wipe out a group of squishy bad players, but they have to be just that, squishy and bad, when fighting good players yeah its still an amazing ult, but its not enough to finish the m off because of these big cons of solo Magden:
1. Magdens main spammable - screaming cliff racer, is complete slow garbage that is easily dodgeable.
2. Magden has no stun, i am not counting what they did to that tornado skill thingy as a stun because its a joke, a pathetic joke of a skill.
3. Magden having no stun and no viable spammable leads them being locked to using shock clench or flame reach as a stun and spammable so you're stunning people when you dont want to in order to do damage meaning your opponent gets free cc immunity while dodging all your following damage.
4. Magden has no execute, you can get someone to very low hp with a permafrost, deep fissure and clench combo but you probably wont finish him off because your clench spam that comes after that doesnt hit hard enough and its the most easiest thing to avoid by dodging twice and by the time you can dmg then again they already healed up.

Conclusion: birds travel time need to be an instant hit, magdens need a proper stun, and if these two things cant happen then magden needs to have an undodgeable execute like radiant oppression. Also swarm is terribly slow and should also be sped up.

ESO_Nightingale

Trancestor wrote: »

1. Magdens main spammable - birds of prey, is complete slow garbage that is easily dodgeable.

i make this mistake a lot too, but can you please correct this to Screaming Cliff Racer? new people may get really confused.

Trancestor

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

1. Magdens main spammable - birds of prey, is complete slow garbage that is easily dodgeable.

i make this mistake a lot too, but can you please correct this to Screaming Cliff Racer? new people may get really confused.

oopsie, fixed

ESO_Nightingale

Trancestor wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

1. Magdens main spammable - birds of prey, is complete slow garbage that is easily dodgeable.

i make this mistake a lot too, but can you please correct this to Screaming Cliff Racer? new people may get really confused.

oopsie, fixed

thanks!

Zardayne

I just thought I'd bump this for some more discussion. Sad thing is I don't think there are enough active full time Magdens to post on here to put pressure on ZOS to do something.

Hellkaptain

I’m in no place to comment I’ve just started a Magden seems really fun so far so really commenting to bump.

ESO_Nightingale

Zardayne wrote: »

I just thought I'd bump this for some more discussion. Sad thing is I don't think there are enough active full time Magdens to post on here to put pressure on ZOS to do something.

Yeah its because the class mostly isn't worth using over stamden or anything else. They can use sleet storm as well so the one thing magden really has going for it is.... a bit of healer-like group utility? And the only way to enable them in pvp seems to be via a Master's Shock Staff and Sleet storm and with frost wall (which can be used by anyone.)

FrancisCrawford

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

They can't buff MagDen without making them even more monstrous in PvP...

Sure they can. Buff their DoTs. Give them non-CC utility.

Winter's Revenge is pretty blah in PvE. So it's an obvious candidate for a buff.

ESO_Nightingale

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

They can't buff MagDen without making them even more monstrous in PvP...

Sure they can. Buff their DoTs. Give them non-CC utility.

Winter's Revenge is pretty blah in PvE. So it's an obvious candidate for a buff.

Sure but other skills are also blah. SCR and Swarm are also candidates. but we also need more skills to play with. and winter's embrace has the room. we have no group utility or synergy.

Soundles1990

Magicka warden need a serious buff..