Dungeon DLC doesn't really add much to the game for the "average" player

Delpi

I think they do 2 DLC dungeons/year because they announce that we'll have 4 updates a year and they're not able to do it, so DLC dungeons are just 'filling' content. The only way they could get away with it is to make them extra-difficult (more time to finish it and less wait for another quarter update)

Royaji

Monsieur wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter.

Those numbers of course look mighty scary but how about we do not try to bend reality to our wishes and normalize them to some fairly common achievement that shows the percentage of players who actually bothered to play the game and not only created a character and left? Say "Level 50 Hero"?

typos

Well, you’d also have to normalise ZOS’s 10 million stories, just to play it fair.

Edit: 12.3% Have the level 50 hero

Never believe a word of what marketing team says. This one is obvious by itself.

But as I expected achievements are a terrible way to judge how many players actually play the content. The numbers are just way too diluted.

Kiralyn2000

re: PS4 Achieves

Someone pointed out in another thread ("look how few people have finished Summerset story! Chapters are unpopular!" I think), that PS4 achieves don't update on the servers until someone actually accesses their achieve list on the console. Or something like that.

And others mentioned free weekends and creating additional accounts (for muleing/guilds/etc) using extra PS4 profiles.

So, yeah. PS4 Achieve %'s aren't a great way to measure things.

Appleblade

Kali_Despoine wrote: »

So what you are saying is that the average player...
Can't be bothered with learning mechanics
Can't be bothered to grind for gear that will help them past hurdles
Can't be bothered to learn animation clipping
Can't be bothered to fail and try again

For me, that’s exactly it. I don’t have the time. I don’t think many “average” players do. You may look down your nose at me, but I can look right back at you for putting so much effort into something that’s “just a game” to me.

Saw the same thing in FO76. By the time I got to level 30 there were people on Reddit complaining they nothing to do with their three or more level 150+ characters. Even when I was in college I wouldn’t have that kind of time. I don’t know how people do it. I’d be so burned out.

Knowledge is power
Those who don't want to learn will forever be weak

You should write fortune cookies.

Tapio75

Malprave wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Can’t speak for the “average” player whoever they are. As for myself, the DLC dungeons are the content I enjoy the most. There are only a few ways to challenge yourself in this game and honestly I’m a little surprised that this one is always the subject of so much controversy. I feel that any nerfing or elimination of the DLC dungeons would be very bad for the health of the game.

The controversy stems in large part from the fact that people seem to really want the rewards for running random dungeons, and hence participate in a system that, rewards aside, is ridiculous.

And then they complain about various ridiculous aspects of the system.

I feel like we are getting a little off topic but you pretty much nailed it here. I have just never understood why people want the reward for running random dungeons. The rewards are a joke. I know somebody will jump in here and say they want the XP probably but with all the ways to farm that why bother.

I am only interested in the cosmetic stuff and the story. All other stuff is meaningless to me including XP.

MythicEmperor

It isn’t even the difficulty for me. Personally, I just don’t find them interesting. I mean yes, the mechanics are good, but as someone who roleplays and does PvE, it just doesn’t tick off all the boxes for what I consider worth my money. Story DLC includes a zone (RP potential galore), quests with interesting characters, and PvE content. Dungeon DLC doesn’t have much going for it besides the odd skin or personality, but it’s not only locked behind the pay-wall of buying the DLC but also a time-wall of getting the achievements- in other words, not worth it just for the cosmetics.

Imperial City was dungeon DLC done right; there is still a small zone included. Even as someone who rarely attempts PvP, I can appreciate that it is an option. Most of the dungeon locations are breathtaking and I just want to be able to freely explore the beautiful scenery created by the talented designers.

To conclude, dungeons should be a part of a DLC and not a DLC by themselves. I understand that it is in order to push out a higher number of releases and adhere to the quarterly DLC comittment, but I would much rather have one smaller story zone than two dungeon DLCs.

Jhalin

Tapio75 wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Can’t speak for the “average” player whoever they are. As for myself, the DLC dungeons are the content I enjoy the most. There are only a few ways to challenge yourself in this game and honestly I’m a little surprised that this one is always the subject of so much controversy. I feel that any nerfing or elimination of the DLC dungeons would be very bad for the health of the game.

The controversy stems in large part from the fact that people seem to really want the rewards for running random dungeons, and hence participate in a system that, rewards aside, is ridiculous.

And then they complain about various ridiculous aspects of the system.

I feel like we are getting a little off topic but you pretty much nailed it here. I have just never understood why people want the reward for running random dungeons. The rewards are a joke. I know somebody will jump in here and say they want the XP probably but with all the ways to farm that why bother.

I am only interested in the cosmetic stuff and the story. All other stuff is meaningless to me including XP.

If you want the cosmetics, you have to put effort into improving.

A lack of rewards for not putting effort in is not a punishment.

Vizikul

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

re: PS4 Achieves

Someone pointed out in another thread ("look how few people have finished Summerset story! Chapters are unpopular!" I think), that PS4 achieves don't update on the servers until someone actually accesses their achieve list on the console. Or something like that.

And others mentioned free weekends and creating additional accounts (for muleing/guilds/etc) using extra PS4 profiles.

So, yeah. PS4 Achieve %'s aren't a great way to measure things.

That's not the reason, why the statistics are messed up. It's because of all the bots, creating gazillion of fake accounts. Those fake accounts count as "players" and influence the statistics as well. And because they are so numerous, they have a critical impact on those calculations.

heaven13

MythicEmperor wrote: »

It isn’t even the difficulty for me. Personally, I just don’t find them interesting. I mean yes, the mechanics are good, but as someone who roleplays and does PvE, it just doesn’t tick off all the boxes for what I consider worth my money. Story DLC includes a zone (RP potential galore), quests with interesting characters, and PvE content. Dungeon DLC doesn’t have much going for it besides the odd skin or personality, but it’s not only locked behind the pay-wall of buying the DLC but also a time-wall of getting the achievements- in other words, not worth it just for the cosmetics.

Imperial City was dungeon DLC done right; there is still a small zone included. Even as someone who rarely attempts PvP, I can appreciate that it is an option. Most of the dungeon locations are breathtaking and I just want to be able to freely explore the beautiful scenery created by the talented designers.

To conclude, dungeons should be a part of a DLC and not a DLC by themselves. I understand that it is in order to push out a higher number of releases and adhere to the quarterly DLC comittment, but I would much rather have one smaller story zone than two dungeon DLCs.

I think this is a great point. Imperial City at least has a zone with it (though we can debate on the merits of trying to hybrid PVE and PVP in the same zone elsewhere, lol) but it at least wasn't just 2 dungeons.

SirAxen wrote: »

There is usually a host of QoL stuff with each Dungeon DLC as well. So, Wrathstone update isn't going to be 'just' two dungeons.

The "Wrathstone" update will be rolled out to everyone, whether they purchase Wrathstone dungeons or have access through ESO+. The actual DLC does not include those updates, they're just released at the same time so it's disingenuous to determine the worth of "DLC Dungeons" by combining with them regular QoL updates that will be released regardless. That would be the same as calling the outfit system part of 'Dragon Bones" - it's not.

Tapio75

Jhalin wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Can’t speak for the “average” player whoever they are. As for myself, the DLC dungeons are the content I enjoy the most. There are only a few ways to challenge yourself in this game and honestly I’m a little surprised that this one is always the subject of so much controversy. I feel that any nerfing or elimination of the DLC dungeons would be very bad for the health of the game.

The controversy stems in large part from the fact that people seem to really want the rewards for running random dungeons, and hence participate in a system that, rewards aside, is ridiculous.

And then they complain about various ridiculous aspects of the system.

I feel like we are getting a little off topic but you pretty much nailed it here. I have just never understood why people want the reward for running random dungeons. The rewards are a joke. I know somebody will jump in here and say they want the XP probably but with all the ways to farm that why bother.

I am only interested in the cosmetic stuff and the story. All other stuff is meaningless to me including XP.

If you want the cosmetics, you have to put effort into improving.

A lack of rewards for not putting effort in is not a punishment.

I am skilled. It is the people who dont put effort to their social behaviour or have respect for others will to do things the immersive way.

That said, skill and being socially proactive is not enough in my case. I am visually impaired, so gettiing to group situation makes it extremely hard to see whats going on in the screen. Added to that all the visual effects blind me even more. I would end up being useless in these situation. I like to challenge myself though and am happy to solo all those things, but many have mechanics that make soloing impossible. Not due lack of skill but because there is some system that requires more than 1 person by code. Then again most trials are not soloable on veteran difficulty, so locking them behind artificial walls of having certain number of people frustrates me. I am all for extreme difficulty and more difficult content. I loved how ESO started back when it launched, but sadly most do not want to take time to learn to play so the game was nerfed.

jcaceresw

I feel my money on subscription is wasted on those dungeon DLC. I don't do them because there is no people willing to do and teach the tips and tricks on these.

Cireous

I 100% agree with OP. Dungeon DLCs are either get your set and forget it, or, even more likely, get your skyshard and forget it--for most of us. I also wish more content was added for these DLCs. I wouldn't expect an entire zone, but I'd be happy if they mixed in more large scale system changes. New weapons, new skilline added to class skills, Spellcrafting, more thieves guild and dark brotherhood skills/adventures, added (optional) difficulty settings for overland content, housing locker, housing item limit changes, free roaming alts in houses, costume/outfit quality of life changes. The list is endless. Just, you know, add more of the stuff we really want. Give us something to get excited about when it's dungeon DLC time.

mairwen85

I'm an average player. I do 1-3 hours a day. A trial on the weekend. My dps main does ~35k, and I appreciate and enjoy dungeon dlc. I like the upscaled difficulty, new gear, extended mini stories and just generally having more to play/beat.

I don't think this thread speaks for me. Can't speak for other average players - - do you mean average as majority player base, or average ability?

Itzmichi

I rather have them release 1 decent dlc/chapter or whatever they want to call their bananas instead of 4 every year. Sure they could definitely rearrange their focus away from dungeons to let's say something like QoL or story(which they kinda did with the new 1 year story thingy) but I must say I enjoy the hard dungeons the most, completing the achievements feels the most rewarding for me, but that's just my personal opinion.

It's not like I need a new dungeon every few months, there is enough to do in this game anyways.

Emma_Overload

mairwen85 wrote: »

I'm an average player. I do 1-3 hours a day. A trial on the weekend. My dps main does ~35k, and I appreciate and enjoy dungeon dlc. I like the upscaled difficulty, new gear, extended mini stories and just generally having more to play/beat.

I don't think this thread speaks for me. Can't speak for other average players - - do you mean average as majority player base, or average ability?

Honestly I don't think an "average" player exists in ESO. The player base seems very diverse and everyone has different ideas of what activities are fun and worthwhile in the game.

crjs1

I totally agree with OP. I will usually do the DLC dungeons once if it all. And with ever increasing difficulty they are getting more and more inaccessible. And I play for ‘fun’ not for competition, not to spend hours min maxing but you know to relax abd have fun and enjoy the lore and stories. I just wish DLC normal dungeons were closer to base difficulty.

zaria

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

re: PS4 Achieves

Someone pointed out in another thread ("look how few people have finished Summerset story! Chapters are unpopular!" I think), that PS4 achieves don't update on the servers until someone actually accesses their achieve list on the console. Or something like that.

And others mentioned free weekends and creating additional accounts (for muleing/guilds/etc) using extra PS4 profiles.

So, yeah. PS4 Achieve %'s aren't a great way to measure things.

Like steam, my Skyrim achivement page has obvious holes like not finishing the civil war nor become werewolf. Both I did multiple times.

Royaji

In all the arguing about those PS4 achievements I forgot to add something constructive to the post.

For me zone DLCs are those one-and-done things you blame dungeon DLCs for. I've spent maybe a week on Murkmire. Did all the quests, even read the dialog unlike some of my friends, had to LA my way through to have at least some difficulty. Haven't been back there since. Grind 30 repetitive dailies for some obscure achievement? No thank you. Motifs? Can be bought for 5k a page in 6 months. Do the story again on another character? I've already seen it just now, don't need a refresher that soon. The same thing happened with pretty much all zone DLCs. Chapters can take a bit longer (just because they are released during a busy part of the year) but I think I've stopped by Morrowind for the first time in months to do those dailies for the event.

On the other hand I will do at least one DLC dungeon a week. Maybe to help someone get their first clear on vet/HM. Maybe to get a motif and turn it into nice profit. Maybe for the pledge. Maybe because a friend needs a Flame Blossom Inferno. I remember making hundreds of thousands of gold by selling Mazzatun motifs before events started dropping all motifs like candy. DLC dungeons can be frustrating especially on first clears. I don't remeber how many times I've called Fang Lair HM mechanics "unintuitive bulls*it" on my first clear. Now? I went there to help some friends with their first clear on the weekend and it felt like a very relaxed fun run.

ZOS wants to keep everyone entertained and happy and so they mix bits of different content through the year. Nothing wrong with that.

logarifmik

Maybe it's a little bit out of topic, but I think that a "story mode" for dungeons would increase DLC dungeons value severely. At least for me it would. For those who are not aware what I'm talking about. Someone here on the forum proposed a special mode for all dungeons, when a player can solo it instead of running past the quest with PuG. Personally, I'd like to have an option to do dungeons together with some famous Undaunted NPCs, but it's even less likely.

lokulin

Agree. They should release an easier vet HM DLC dungeon every now and then. Something that has vet achievements no harder than say City of Ash 2. Sure top tier players deserve content and achievements they can earn but so do average and lower ability players. Plenty pay for ESO+ or the individual packs so deserve to have access to the content and more achievements. From a purely selfish point of view the more really hard stuff the release the more diluted the player base is that wants to hunt esoteric group achievements. For an end game achievement hunter it can be demotivating.

russelmmendoza

Yep, new players struggle in dlc dungeons.
Even in normal they get wipe.
I explained the mechanics, but they still get wipe.
Its must be their just new to the mechanics.
Their dps is ok at 20k.

Soundwave

I just came back from a two year absence, i lean more towards casual but maybe slightly better than average. I've only done a handful of dungeons ever, do i want to spend the time listening to players rage because i *** up on mechanics. Not really, if i want to do that i just go to pvp.

Just dungeons dont offer that much compare to open world of tamriel. Maybe if dungeons offered double xp, maybe i would consider doing them more than never.

karekiz

jcaceresw wrote: »

ZOS wants to keep everyone entertained and happy and so they mix bits of different content through the year. Nothing wrong with that.

This guy gets it.

I have no idea why people think the content is unfairly divided. We get:
2 DLC dungeon DLC
1 Chapter <Raid + Major quest area>
1 "Quest" DLC - Usually comes with "X" to fill some endgame gap <AS for a trial for one slot weapons / BRP for DSA 2.0>

So quest/open world get 2 content <and argueably the biggest content update> focused - Dungeons get 2 - Trials are filled in. Its quite even between the gaps. You can argue that someone who likes dungeons can do all the above, but the same can be counter said. Normal even MHK can be duoed. If you feel your DPS isn't "up to snuff" for normal then don't worry, it most likely can be carried without you <Regardless if you think thats "fair" or not isn't the point>.

Ever wonder why they add events for random DLC? Chapters? PvP? Why on earth they keep warhorn into a PvP only obtainable skill line even though its 100% used in trials. Its to force everyone into a little bit of everything. A guildie runs all tanks. He ****hates**** PvP. If it wasn't for warhorn he would literally never step foot in it. He does it, gets it, and when the necro comes out I am sure he will do it again for necro tank. Should ZoS remove PvP specific skills because he doesn't specifically like them? Not at all.

I would 100% bet that if either the Chapter or the quest zone came first this discussion would have never happened. The player would have played <Insert PvE openworld here> and either went off to do something or grinded world bosses while the Dungeon DLC released.

lokulin

Royaji wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter.

Those numbers of course look mighty scary but how about we do not try to bend reality to our wishes and normalize them to some fairly common achievement that shows the percentage of players who actually bothered to play the game and not only created a character and left? Say "Level 50 Hero"?

typos

On ESO DB about 46% of players reach level 50. About the same reach CP 300. 13% complete City of Ash 2. 0.76% complete March of Sacrifices. Even if you normalise for CP300 or City of Ash 2 the completion rate is less than 10%. This isn't even hard mode. The numbers for that are even lower. Only about a quarter of players that complete MoS complete hard mode. At best this is a couple of thousand players spread across multiple platforms, timezones and regions.

jainiadral

Can't claim to be the "average" player, but I can say dungeon DLCs do absolutely nothing for me.

Just putting that out there. Do with it what you will

lokulin

Transairion wrote: »

Having any new content is nice of course, but dungeon DLC really doesn't give us much to replay and for paid DLC (ESO+ or Crown) it doesn't offer much:

One basic lore quest per dungeon (one and done)
Sets (do normal a couple of times, Veteran at least once for Monster set)
Fluff cosmetics/titles (most locked behind Veteran Hard Mode grinding)
Achievements (almost all of them are Veteran+)


Forgive me for pulling numbers out of my rear thin air but as far as the majority of players go:

Normal DLC Capable: ~90%

Veteran DLC Capable: ~30%

Veteran HM DLC Capable: ~5% or less

Since their inception dungeon DLC has only got harder and harder, lowering the amount of players who can clear them even more. Having hard stuff is perfectly fine, we all hate ourselves play for the challenge after all... but it really does seem like almost all the content in Dungeon DLC is "top player" content. That's really not a lot of players in the grand scheme of things, especially when the point of DLC is to sell it to make money.

I don't know, ever since Imperial City (first? DLC dungeons + PvP zone) dungeon DLC has just seemed like something you do the first few days and Joe Schmoe gets his sets and is done with it, as only "better players" can access the rest of the DLC's content in the form that it is. It hasn't appealed to me ever, and now knowing that ZOS is invested in 2 Dungeon DLC a year (out of 4 content drops total) it just feels like a whole lot of waiting for next to nothing: I really think Dungeon DLC needs to be expanded on to include more.


Only my opinion

Vet HM numbers would be closer to 1%. My anecdotal experience with pugs would confirm that.

Royaji

lokulin wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter.

Those numbers of course look mighty scary but how about we do not try to bend reality to our wishes and normalize them to some fairly common achievement that shows the percentage of players who actually bothered to play the game and not only created a character and left? Say "Level 50 Hero"?

typos

On ESO DB about 46% of players reach level 50. About the same reach CP 300. 13% complete City of Ash 2. 0.76% complete March of Sacrifices. Even if you normalise for CP300 or City of Ash 2 the completion rate is less than 10%. This isn't even hard mode. The numbers for that are even lower. Only about a quarter of players that complete MoS complete hard mode. At best this is a couple of thousand players spread across multiple platforms, timezones and regions.

Sorry but an opt-in database that has not been that relevant for several years is not a representative source.

TheNightflame

Unless the majority of story players are out of story content (i.e. have tamriel hero and all the dlc stories completed) there's no reason to complain. The people who play dungeons get them and their achievements done relatively quickly, and there's not mucb re play value so we need more dungeons because we're actually out of content

lokulin

Royaji wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter.

Those numbers of course look mighty scary but how about we do not try to bend reality to our wishes and normalize them to some fairly common achievement that shows the percentage of players who actually bothered to play the game and not only created a character and left? Say "Level 50 Hero"?

typos

On ESO DB about 46% of players reach level 50. About the same reach CP 300. 13% complete City of Ash 2. 0.76% complete March of Sacrifices. Even if you normalise for CP300 or City of Ash 2 the completion rate is less than 10%. This isn't even hard mode. The numbers for that are even lower. Only about a quarter of players that complete MoS complete hard mode. At best this is a couple of thousand players spread across multiple platforms, timezones and regions.

Sorry but an opt-in database that has not been that relevant for several years is not a representative source.

You are right. It probably over represents the figures because the type of people that opt in are also interested in hard content and achievement hunting so the real stats are probably lower...which is what you see on PS4. Given that the last estimated number of players across all platforms from ZOS was only in the millions, even a self selected sample size that runs to the tens of thousands is statistically significant. My guesstimate would be that the error bars would be less than one order of magnitude.

edit: Just to add to this even if you only take the players in ESO DB that have even entered at least one WolfHunter dungeon (4% of ESO DB players) it means that of those 50% have completed on normal March of Sacrifices, 17% of those have done vet and only 6% have done Hard Mode. And once again, these are players that are motivated enough to even install the plugin so are likely players fairly invested in the game. Of course, as usual when the numbers don't match with your beliefs you can choose to ignore them but there are multiple sources all pointing to the same conclusion. DLC dungeons are not offering enough to average players.

lokulin

Royaji wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter.

Those numbers of course look mighty scary but how about we do not try to bend reality to our wishes and normalize them to some fairly common achievement that shows the percentage of players who actually bothered to play the game and not only created a character and left? Say "Level 50 Hero"?

typos

Well, you’d also have to normalise ZOS’s 10 million stories, just to play it fair.

Edit: 12.3% Have the level 50 hero

Never believe a word of what marketing team says. This one is obvious by itself.

But as I expected achievements are a terrible way to judge how many players actually play the content. The numbers are just way too diluted.

How would you suggest measuring it then? It seems a perfectly reasonable proxy to me.