Argonian race is worst for DD of all other races

Ajax_22

Anyron wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

In this case everything is "insanely op". Every build, role and class.
You judge whole class because of tanks in pvp?
Resourceful is worth passive only for tanks.

Nope. It's one of the best PvP passives in the game for any role, or class.

Rikumaru

Anyron wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

In this case everything is "insanely op". Every build, role and class.
You judge whole class because of tanks in pvp?
Resourceful is worth passive only for tanks.

In PvP tanks deal damage and have good healing, particularly in sotha. At least in sotha you don't need weapon damage or spell damage to deal high damages and argonian offers good sustain and a burst heal / burst sustain with it's passive combined with a sustain pot. Along with the fact it gets really good healing from it's passive (5% per which increases each other more I believe) it makes argonian extremely potent in PvP.

Silver_Strider

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

I meant it as more a comparison between Live and PTS. Them being a top pick in PvP isn't true anymore, not by a long shot.

Koronach

All I see is pvp this pvp that, 90% of this game is PVE.

Arbit

I hate pvp for making my favorite race get the short end of the stick in this coming patch... pvp can stick it for all I care honestly.

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1

considering theyve gotten almost no buff from what they were before... i think youre a little off on your findings that theyre "just behind bretons" "2nd best"... sure sure

Silver_Strider

Rikumaru wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

In this case everything is "insanely op". Every build, role and class.
You judge whole class because of tanks in pvp?
Resourceful is worth passive only for tanks.

In PvP tanks deal damage and have good healing, particularly in sotha. At least in sotha you don't need weapon damage or spell damage to deal high damages and argonian offers good sustain and a burst heal / burst sustain with it's passive combined with a sustain pot. Along with the fact it gets really good healing from it's passive (5% per which increases each other more I believe) it makes argonian extremely potent in PvP.

I laughed at "burst heal" because after Battle Spirit, that heal equates to <3k health.

Rikumaru

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

In this case everything is "insanely op". Every build, role and class.
You judge whole class because of tanks in pvp?
Resourceful is worth passive only for tanks.

In PvP tanks deal damage and have good healing, particularly in sotha. At least in sotha you don't need weapon damage or spell damage to deal high damages and argonian offers good sustain and a burst heal / burst sustain with it's passive combined with a sustain pot. Along with the fact it gets really good healing from it's passive (5% per which increases each other more I believe) it makes argonian extremely potent in PvP.

I laughed at "burst heal" because after Battle Spirit, that heal equates to <3k health.

Combine it with a pot which restores HP and it gives back more HP than rally, which is pretty much the largest stam heal you are gonna get.

Silver_Strider

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

In this case everything is "insanely op". Every build, role and class.
You judge whole class because of tanks in pvp?
Resourceful is worth passive only for tanks.

In PvP tanks deal damage and have good healing, particularly in sotha. At least in sotha you don't need weapon damage or spell damage to deal high damages and argonian offers good sustain and a burst heal / burst sustain with it's passive combined with a sustain pot. Along with the fact it gets really good healing from it's passive (5% per which increases each other more I believe) it makes argonian extremely potent in PvP.

I laughed at "burst heal" because after Battle Spirit, that heal equates to <3k health.

Combine it with a pot which restores HP and it gives back more HP than rally, which is pretty much the largest stam heal you are gonna get.

I can use a detect pot at full health and the heal is effectively 0, making it a terrible burst heal. The potion is irrelevant to the amount the passive provides, since that number is static and unchanging. It's a subpar "burst" heal in PvP; it's the potion that's giving the bulk of the restore, not the passive.

ccmedaddy

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I can use a detect pot at full health and the heal is effectively 0, making it a terrible burst heal. The potion is irrelevant to the amount the passive provides, since that number is static and unchanging. It's a subpar "burst" heal in PvP; it's the potion that's giving the bulk of the restore, not the passive.

"the healing is irrelevant if I use it at full health" LOL

Yeah no s*** sherlock. Don't you ever get tired of making asinine arguments like this?

Arbit

Man this thread title is misleading. You'd almost think this thread was meant for people to talk about how argonians are bad damage dealers. I guess i should learn to read tho cause this thread is obviously about pvp dominance.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

As it should be

Silver_Strider

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I can use a detect pot at full health and the heal is effectively 0, making it a terrible burst heal. The potion is irrelevant to the amount the passive provides, since that number is static and unchanging. It's a subpar "burst" heal in PvP; it's the potion that's giving the bulk of the restore, not the passive.

"the healing is irrelevant if I use it at full health" LOL

Yeah no s*** sherlock. Don't you ever get tired of making asinine arguments like this?

Don't you ever get tired of having nothing productive to say? I was arguing that the potion passive is not a burst heal. In PvP, it's a 3k added heal on top of whatever potion you drink, AT BEST, completely redundant at worst. I told you yesterday, get better at reading comprehension before you try and argue, it makes you look less of a fool.

Alpheu5

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

So all those Khajiit, Bosmer, Orc, Redguard, and Imperial stam classes I see running around Cyrodiil right now are really just Argonians in disguise? Here are our pure numbers for you:

• 3% max magicka converted to +1000 max means that anybody currently with a pool over 33k is seeing a nerf, so most magicka specs get a hit.
• 9% max health converted to +1000 max means anybody with over 11,500 HP (read: everyone) is seeing a nerf.
• 10% healing done and received converted to a simply 6% done is obviously a nerf, especially for tanks.
• Assuming Resourceful is maintained 100% of the time with no time enchantments, 4000 resources every 45 seconds translates to only 178 regen separate from all regen calculations. For comparison, the Steed, Atronach, and Serpent increase their respective resource regen by a base of 238 and is factored into regen calculations.

To call them insanely OP is a gross exaggeration and only serves as a source of confirmation bias to people that get bested by a race known to be inferior DDs.

Rikumaru

k

Silver_Strider

Rikumaru wrote: »

k

People can have unbiased opinions on something even if that opinion is in favor of them, despite what you may believe.

Koronach

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I can use a detect pot at full health and the heal is effectively 0, making it a terrible burst heal. The potion is irrelevant to the amount the passive provides, since that number is static and unchanging. It's a subpar "burst" heal in PvP; it's the potion that's giving the bulk of the restore, not the passive.

"the healing is irrelevant if I use it at full health" LOL

Yeah no s*** sherlock. Don't you ever get tired of making asinine arguments like this?

So like when are you going to have a legit argument other than to pad your star count like the rest of the trolls on these toxic forums? You post no facts to back anything up and just post insults.

Gigasax

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

k

People can have unbiased opinions on something even if that opinion is in favor of them, despite what you may believe.

doubt.

Anyron

if resourceful is used properly ( in rare cases when you need all 3 stats and 3 stat potion cant fill them alone - mostly it just do it alone without resourceful ) it is good passive. i agree.

but thats rare cases. mostly you just end dead in pvp because you was afraid to use your racials ( thinking i save it when i need it. then stun -> dead)

and often it just refills one empty bar when others are full.

this resource gain cannot be counted as recovery, because until i use potion, i gain no resources


clearly argonian dps is worst of all dps avaiable because all of them are able to stack their primary damage stat higher than argonian.


if they give them 500 more magicka, its not game-broker

Kulvar

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

Rikumaru wrote: »

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP.

Anyron wrote: »

Not saying Argonians should not get an damage bonus. Only reason not to give them it would be pvp balance.

If the on potion drinking effect is that overpowered in PvP (as long as you didn't wasted it on a detection potion) and hindering PvE potential without any possibility of balancing it for both game mode.
Then we just have to ask ZOS to replace the on potion effect and replace it with something still related to potion but spread over time.
• Restore 210 Health, Magicka, and Stamina every 3 second while potion is on cooldown
OR
• +85 Health, Magicka, Stamina Recovery while potion is on cooldown

And change Quick to Mend a bit
• +3% Healing Done
• +100 Spell or Weapon Damage, based on your higher ressource, for 5 seconds after receiving Healing.

No longer will Argonian have a burst of pool restoration in PvP, while getting more love in PvE, should open room for everyone to be happy don't you think ? Win Win ?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Don't worry in that next trial where the mechanic requires players to swim across a lake before they can DD Argonian will pull ahead.

Silver_Strider

Gigasax wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

k

People can have unbiased opinions on something even if that opinion is in favor of them, despite what you may believe.

doubt.

And I doubt anyone actually cares about balance at all if they just shoot down any and all suggested buffs for Argonians because of their bias opinion that Argonians are still somehow OP in PvP as of the current state of PTS. All I ever see on the forums are people that keep asking for their race to be buffed, despite the fact that the numbers were fairly close. Look what happened between Altmer and Dunmer. Dunmer is now so close to Altmer in terms of PvE, the difference in negligible but Dunmer vastly outstrip Altmer in PvP. That isn't balanced at all and yet people continue to ask for more.

I've listen my suggestions to buff other races that are slightly behind, alongside Argonian buffs, all in fair ways that don't overstep any boundaries but all are shot down because someone wants their race to be better than the other. If people don't care about balance, it doesn't matter if an opinion is bias or not, people will still judge it as such, negating the purpose of discussion all together.

ccmedaddy

Koronach wrote: »

So like when are you going to have a legit argument other than to pad your star count like the rest of the trolls on these toxic forums? You post no facts to back anything up and just post insults.

Literally my first post in this thread:

ccmedaddy wrote: »

👏 NOT EVERY RACE HAS TO BE A TOP PVE DPS RACE 👏

Buffing Argonians' offensive stats will inevitably lead to their utility passives being nerfed. Just race change your toon and leave the rest of us Argonians alone.

My point is simple and straightforward and but apparently it's too hard for you to grasp so let me reiterate: Not everything in this game about end-game PvE DPS, and there are 3 other races you can choose if DPS is your primary concern.

Meanwhile, your only argument here is that "muh lore sayz argonians are not tanks!!11".... which doesn't even warrant any serious response. I don't like to argue in-game mechanics with role players so... bye.

Anyron

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

So like when are you going to have a legit argument other than to pad your star count like the rest of the trolls on these toxic forums? You post no facts to back anything up and just post insults.

Literally my first post in this thread:

ccmedaddy wrote: »

👏 NOT EVERY RACE HAS TO BE A TOP PVE DPS RACE 👏

Buffing Argonians' offensive stats will inevitably lead to their utility passives being nerfed. Just race change your toon and leave the rest of us Argonians alone.

My point is simple and straightforward and but apparently it's too hard for you to grasp so let me reiterate: Not everything in this game about end-game PvE DPS, and there are 3 other races you can choose if DPS is your primary concern.

Meanwhile, your only argument here is that "muh lore sayz argonians are not tanks!!11".... which doesn't even warrant any serious response. I don't like to argue in-game mechanics with role players so... bye.

why should i play something else than argonian? stupid excuses . every race should be ballanced with others in all roles. then its up to you if you wanna play it as tank, dps or healer but noone should be forced

go, after this patch , and change your race you non-role player. keep spending your money, thats all your good for

Alpheu5

Rikumaru wrote: »

k

Pointing out my race of choice for the past 11 years isn't going to suddenly alter the figures. You're attempting to distract from the fact that your argument actually doesn't hold water because you're making exaggerated claims without any supporting evidence.

Dracan_Fontom

Gigasax wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

k

People can have unbiased opinions on something even if that opinion is in favor of them, despite what you may believe.

doubt.

Tell that to debate teams, and scientists, and researchers who's sole purpose is to objectively understand and analyze certain aspects in hopes of enlightening others. If a debate or research has any sort of bias in their field chances are that their reputation and career would be hindered.

Kulvar

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Tell that to debate teams, and scientists, and researchers who's sole purpose is to objectively understand and analyze certain aspects in hopes of enlightening others. If a debate or research has any sort of bias in their field chances are that their reputation and career would be hindered.

It's not because something happen commonly that it always happens.
Citing scientific studies are not a valid argument for or against a possibility in a specific case.
And one can be biased while still being right. The further from balance we are, the closer truth is from biased opinion.

But we're going off topic.

Mudcrabber

All the best races were similarly nerfed, going from percentages to flat bonuses.

Argonians just weren't very good for DD to begin with, but they were hit just as hard.

Edit: Overall the gap between the races has narrowed, so picking the wrong race is not such a fatal mistake as it was before.

Koronach

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

So like when are you going to have a legit argument other than to pad your star count like the rest of the trolls on these toxic forums? You post no facts to back anything up and just post insults.

Literally my first post in this thread:

ccmedaddy wrote: »

👏 NOT EVERY RACE HAS TO BE A TOP PVE DPS RACE 👏

Buffing Argonians' offensive stats will inevitably lead to their utility passives being nerfed. Just race change your toon and leave the rest of us Argonians alone.

My point is simple and straightforward and but apparently it's too hard for you to grasp so let me reiterate: Not everything in this game about end-game PvE DPS, and there are 3 other races you can choose if DPS is your primary concern.

Meanwhile, your only argument here is that "muh lore sayz argonians are not tanks!!11".... which doesn't even warrant any serious response. I don't like to argue in-game mechanics with role players so... bye.

This is an RPG with established lore, so lore should matter. Just because you don't care doesn't mean long time players of the series shouldn't. If you don't want to argue then stop coming here and arguing, it's pretty simple honestly.

Zatox

"Resourceful" passive ability is not flexible enough. It can be worked in a different way.
For example:
1) Tristat potion restores your health, stamina, and magicka. So, "Resourceful" gives you extra X health, X stamina, X magicka.
2) Spell Power potion Increase your Spell Dmg, Crit, Restore Magicka. You can have extra X Spell dmg, Y Crit, Z magicka, but no extra health and stamina.

Browiseth

Hopefully they add something to the argonians. The entire point of these changes is to make any race viable for any role, which is something most don't seem to realise.