Argonian race is worst for DD of all other races

Silver_Strider

Vapirko wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

👏 NOT EVERY RACE HAS TO BE A TOP PVE DPS RACE 👏

Buffing Argonians' offensive stats will inevitably lead to their utility passives being nerfed. Just race change your toon and leave the rest of us Argonians alone.

I would love to see this. Moving from that useless tank racials to something else. Tanks are minority of all players here and now argonians will have no chance to play anything else

No one cares how much DPS Argonians do because they're good at everything else. ZOS is giving you 3 race change tokens. Use them and leave the Argonian race alone.

But every race needs to be exactly matched in straight up boring as *** dps parses, down to the very last decimal because apparently that’s the only thing that matters in this game. ZOS didn’t say that every race would be perfectly matched for DPS. They said they wanted to even out the performance of each race while keep each races unique flavor and getting rid of percent stat boosts. They said do not expect a 1:1 conversion. This means toning down the DPS races that were at the top and bringing up the ones at the bottom and the same goes for tanking races. There’s no accounting for the willful ignorance going on with this patch release.

Being on more equal footing is what we're trying to achieve. Why people want to remain ignorant of that is beyond me but at this point, it's clear ZOS doesn't care about balance in the same sense as we do. The only balance ZOS cares about is in their check books because the 1st iteration of 4.3 was the most balanced the races had been, apart from a few minor nitpicks. 4.3.2 turned that balance on its head, gave races that didn't need buffs, even more power and races that needed help got nerfed instead.

Everyone keeps saying Argonians are fine but the truth of the matter is that they are NOT fine. Healer wise, we're weaker than practically every magic race, with less sustain than Breton. Tank wise, realistically everyone that is actually a decent player and can sustain themselves will be fundamentally better than an Argonian; Argonian is just training wheels for Tanking and little more. DPS wise we're last place across the board. Our PvP performance has dropped because of the combination of everything we lost vs what everyone else gained that. And yet, despite all this, people continue to say we are fine and that a small DPS boost would somehow break us, so you'll forgive me if I don't really see it that way.

Anyron

Banana wrote: »

Sure just give them a damage and or bigger magicka/stamina bonus and keep the crazy potion buff. There's no pleasing an argonian.

Who said i wanna keep resourceful? Delete it and rework argonian

sionIV

Argonian is:

Better tank than Imperial
Better healer than Imperial
Better Magicka DD than Imperial
Worse Stamina DD than Imperial
Better PvP choice than Imperial

Imperial is:

Worst Magicka DD
Worst Healer
6th place in Stamina DD
3th place in tanking.

So please tell me again, how the Imperial is better.

Anyron

sionIV wrote: »

Argonian is:

Better tank than Imperial
Better healer than Imperial
Better Magicka DD than Imperial
Worse Stamina DD than Imperial
Better PvP choice than Imperial

Imperial is:

Worst Magicka DD
Worst Healer
6th place in Stamina DD
3th place in tanking.

So please tell me again, how the Imperial is better.

By what numbers you can say he is 3rd in tanking?

Argonian is worst magicka dd
Argonian is worst stamina dd
Argonian is 4th magicka healer
Argonian is worst stamina healer
Argonian is 4th stamina tank
Argonian is 2ND magicka tank

I can do same

Silver_Strider

sionIV wrote: »

Argonian is:

Better tank than Imperial
Better healer than Imperial
Better Magicka DD than Imperial
Worse Stamina DD than Imperial
Better PvP choice than Imperial

Imperial is:

Worst Magicka DD
Worst Healer
6th place in Stamina DD
3th place in tanking.

So please tell me again, how the Imperial is better.

Better Tank is subjective. There isn't any way to judge a Tank other than" Did they grab/maintain aggro?" and "Did they survive?" The main difference between Imperial and Argonian on PTS ATM is that Imperials have 5% Block/Bash cost reduction, and have 1k more Health+2k Stamina vs 6% Healing Done, 25% more resource restore and 1k Magic (the Disease Resistance matters little in terms of Tanking as there's no disease damage in PvE content and in PvP the only thing it really helps against is Incapacitating Strike). The resource restore is negligible, outside of PvP, since Healers help out for the most part in that department, to say nothing of the self sustain of DK/Warden Tanks in PvE content. In PvP, the difference being that an Imperial will do more damage than an Argonian while an Argonian has better sustain. At this point, I'd say they're about even on Tanking.

Also, we can't even do tests on Imperial now to see how it fairs in comparison to other Stamina DPS since Red Diamond got changed but I'd be willing to be it's on par with Bosmer in terms of PvE DPS.

As for the PvP side of things, Argonians aren't the top of the food chain anymore there either. Their sustain isn't nearly as impressive, their self healing is weaker than before and poison damage is more potent on them to say they're better is subjective as well.

So Argonian is a better Magic DPS/Healer, Imperial is a better Stamina DPS, which sounds about right for both races but considering we're fighting over LAST PLACE, there's really no good argument to be had for either race. They both need help, full stop.

Tommy_The_Gun

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

In PvP, I'll admit it can come in handy. I don't pvp much with my argonian, but I do notice that I'm often restoring health, magicka, and stamina when I use a potion.

In PvP it is also overrated passive. What happens often is that you are low on stamina and you get stunned / cc-ed and you can not drink potion (even if it is off cooldown) while you are stunned. So relying solely on potion passive is basically a "noob trap" and most of the time you will end up dead fast if you do so.

idk

argonians get a very small boost to magicka pool on live as well. So what OP is speaking to does not take into account what Argonians actually do get.

One cannot look at a specific passive in a vacuum as OP has done and make a proper comparison.

In other words, if OP rolled an Argonian on live thinking it was a great DPS race they have been doing it wrong all along.

Sinolai

Argonian is very common dd in PvP. Not becouse of huge damage but becouse of good sustain and healing, while also being immune to disease that would reduce healing recieved. In PvE they are not that strong due to everyone doing a DPS race and Argonain lacking raw damage, but the benefits are still there and you would notice the difference in a bad group. You still have easy time healing yourself, sustaining your resource pool while doing a stable damage. In PvE argonian is mostly (and most) used Healer or a Tank and it really shine in those spots.

WillhelmBlack

and?

idk

It does seem some do not understand Zos is not trying to make all races similar or even similar DPS wise. They are providing us choices and the argonian is superior with regen (with a healing boost) and Zos seems intent on keeping it that way.

Considering Argonians have been a very popular race for those who are more interested sustain (and healing/tanking) I do not see any reason Zos should alter the passives to be something else.

zaria

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I agree that argonian DPS potential should be buffed in some way. Especially if you take into account that after next patch argonian will not be as good in tanking & healing roles.

Currently it is a BIS race for a tank role and good choice for a healer role. After next patch this will change and Argonian will be outpreformed by other Races.
So as a tank they will be outperformed by Nords, Imerials and possible even Redguards (most of the reason for that is that Argonians will be missing their +5% healing received bonus, while other races received numerous buffs).

As a Healer they will be outperformed by Bretons, High Elves, Dark Elves and even Khajiits (again, mostly because other races received numerous buffs that will outshine Argonian 6% bonus to healing done).

Argonians will still have some potential to be used in those roles (tank & healer) but the same can not be said about DPS role.

Dunmer has no sustain same with High elves unless the nerf is reverted, Khajiit has low sustain and crit is not something you want to bet on in healing, yes they can heal the same way an Argonian can do damage.
Bretons will be strong healers and also pretty sturdy who is nice.

Not saying Argonians should not get an damage bonus. Only reason not to give them it would be pvp balance.

Rake

I love lizards.
And no, they are not worst DD race.

Based on sustain they have and some other races dont, I would guess worst race for DD is Nord, on anything that is nor stam dragonknight.

Princess_Ciri

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Witar

Well you need to have some races fitting for a tank and healer too. Wanna have something with a tail that do damage - pick khajiit.

Silver_Strider

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Anyron

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

if i understand properly, argonians are so OP its must have them for dd. so can you post here your character screen so we can see if you really have that "OP" argonian?

Anyron

zaria wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I agree that argonian DPS potential should be buffed in some way. Especially if you take into account that after next patch argonian will not be as good in tanking & healing roles.

Currently it is a BIS race for a tank role and good choice for a healer role. After next patch this will change and Argonian will be outpreformed by other Races.
So as a tank they will be outperformed by Nords, Imerials and possible even Redguards (most of the reason for that is that Argonians will be missing their +5% healing received bonus, while other races received numerous buffs).

As a Healer they will be outperformed by Bretons, High Elves, Dark Elves and even Khajiits (again, mostly because other races received numerous buffs that will outshine Argonian 6% bonus to healing done).

Argonians will still have some potential to be used in those roles (tank & healer) but the same can not be said about DPS role.

Dunmer has no sustain same with High elves unless the nerf is reverted, Khajiit has low sustain and crit is not something you want to bet on in healing, yes they can heal the same way an Argonian can do damage.
Bretons will be strong healers and also pretty sturdy who is nice.

Not saying Argonians should not get an damage bonus. Only reason not to give them it would be pvp balance.

you think +500 max magicka (1500 total) could broke pvp?

Anyron

idk wrote: »

argonians get a very small boost to magicka pool on live as well. So what OP is speaking to does not take into account what Argonians actually do get.

One cannot look at a specific passive in a vacuum as OP has done and make a proper comparison.

In other words, if OP rolled an Argonian on live thinking it was a great DPS race they have been doing it wrong all along.

can you tell me where we got max magicka buff? all i can see is nothing new than on live but nerf

Kulvar

Anyron wrote: »

can you tell me where we got max magicka buff? all i can see is nothing new than on live but nerf

It's not a specific Argonian bonus, it's a change in CP bonuses.

Xvorg

Koronach wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lol,

one want Argonian as DPS
https://legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot
other want as Tank

and someone else want as Healer

Stop making such threads, Potion and healing nerf caused enough outrage!

This is ctrl+c/v? I see this on every your comment

well, you are doing same. Are not you?

No, my post are maybe all about argonians but there are different topics

Resourceful
Argonians are no tanks by lore
Give something to argonian dps (which was last week and other races were buffed but argonians got nothing in this way)
Etc

If you want you can find all my posts and post it here so others can see proof of what you said. I can, in return find at least 3 posts from last week when u used your copy answer

That's the part that bothers me, since when were Argonians ever tanks? Our stats have always been in int,agi, and speed, we had a handicap in endurance. Also we never had a bonus in restoration magic it was mysticism and illusion so how the hell are we such great healers? Yet we are the only race to have members hatched into the Dark Brotherhood as Shadowscales and trained to kill from a young age. Yet we end up being shoehorned into life saving roles like tank and healer. Don't even get me started on the idiotic and lore breaking idea to remove poison resistance.

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/131/stalwartally

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot

Anyron

Kulvar wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

can you tell me where we got max magicka buff? all i can see is nothing new than on live but nerf

It's not a specific Argonian bonus, it's a change in CP bonuses.

So not just argonian got it.. But all players of all roles. CP scaling is now even more stronger for stacking max pools, so that 1k difference will be even bigger.
All i want is to buff argonian max magicka to 1500-2000 which isnt gamechanging and gamebroking. It just can help argonian dps to keep with other dps

I don't care about resourceful. I am able to offer this passive In exchange for something else. In this state it is overrated and useless.

Anyron

Xvorg wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lol,

one want Argonian as DPS
https://legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot
other want as Tank

and someone else want as Healer

Stop making such threads, Potion and healing nerf caused enough outrage!

This is ctrl+c/v? I see this on every your comment

well, you are doing same. Are not you?

No, my post are maybe all about argonians but there are different topics

Resourceful
Argonians are no tanks by lore
Give something to argonian dps (which was last week and other races were buffed but argonians got nothing in this way)
Etc

If you want you can find all my posts and post it here so others can see proof of what you said. I can, in return find at least 3 posts from last week when u used your copy answer

That's the part that bothers me, since when were Argonians ever tanks? Our stats have always been in int,agi, and speed, we had a handicap in endurance. Also we never had a bonus in restoration magic it was mysticism and illusion so how the hell are we such great healers? Yet we are the only race to have members hatched into the Dark Brotherhood as Shadowscales and trained to kill from a young age. Yet we end up being shoehorned into life saving roles like tank and healer. Don't even get me started on the idiotic and lore breaking idea to remove poison resistance.

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/131/stalwartally

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot

Elder scrolls legends is lore breaking too. It came after eso and we know how they like to rewrite lore. Its just bad as eso.
Endurance wasnt argonian strong side, never. Agility, speed, inteligence. And these are not tank perks.

Xvorg

Anyron wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lol,

one want Argonian as DPS
https://legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot
other want as Tank

and someone else want as Healer

Stop making such threads, Potion and healing nerf caused enough outrage!

This is ctrl+c/v? I see this on every your comment

well, you are doing same. Are not you?

No, my post are maybe all about argonians but there are different topics

Resourceful
Argonians are no tanks by lore
Give something to argonian dps (which was last week and other races were buffed but argonians got nothing in this way)
Etc

If you want you can find all my posts and post it here so others can see proof of what you said. I can, in return find at least 3 posts from last week when u used your copy answer

That's the part that bothers me, since when were Argonians ever tanks? Our stats have always been in int,agi, and speed, we had a handicap in endurance. Also we never had a bonus in restoration magic it was mysticism and illusion so how the hell are we such great healers? Yet we are the only race to have members hatched into the Dark Brotherhood as Shadowscales and trained to kill from a young age. Yet we end up being shoehorned into life saving roles like tank and healer. Don't even get me started on the idiotic and lore breaking idea to remove poison resistance.

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/131/stalwartally

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot

Elder scrolls legends is lore breaking too. It came after eso and we know how they like to rewrite lore. Its just bad as eso.
Endurance wasnt argonian strong side, never. Agility, speed, inteligence. And these are not tank perks.

Every single Elder Scrolls game is lore breaking. Don't you remember the times when Alduin was the nord version of Akatosh?

Anyron

Xvorg wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lol,

one want Argonian as DPS
https://legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot
other want as Tank

and someone else want as Healer

Stop making such threads, Potion and healing nerf caused enough outrage!

This is ctrl+c/v? I see this on every your comment

well, you are doing same. Are not you?

No, my post are maybe all about argonians but there are different topics

Resourceful
Argonians are no tanks by lore
Give something to argonian dps (which was last week and other races were buffed but argonians got nothing in this way)
Etc

If you want you can find all my posts and post it here so others can see proof of what you said. I can, in return find at least 3 posts from last week when u used your copy answer

That's the part that bothers me, since when were Argonians ever tanks? Our stats have always been in int,agi, and speed, we had a handicap in endurance. Also we never had a bonus in restoration magic it was mysticism and illusion so how the hell are we such great healers? Yet we are the only race to have members hatched into the Dark Brotherhood as Shadowscales and trained to kill from a young age. Yet we end up being shoehorned into life saving roles like tank and healer. Don't even get me started on the idiotic and lore breaking idea to remove poison resistance.

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/131/stalwartally

https://www.legends-decks.com/card/125/preserveroftheroot

Elder scrolls legends is lore breaking too. It came after eso and we know how they like to rewrite lore. Its just bad as eso.
Endurance wasnt argonian strong side, never. Agility, speed, inteligence. And these are not tank perks.

Every single Elder Scrolls game is lore breaking. Don't you remember the times when Alduin was the nord version of Akatosh?

Was it? I thought that was in-game legend. You can say jesust Christ was good, skilled healer and for someone it is something divine ( if i offend someone, sorry)

This wasnt good example how zos/bethesda can rewrite lore. This was just legend

Twohothardware

The most overperforming Race that helped initiate the need to even rebalance Races isn't one of the top damage dealing races now? The nerve :P

Argonian will remain a top choice for healing and tanking and will be on the verge of OP in PvP due to the Resourceful passive.

Anyron

Twohothardware wrote: »

The most overperforming Race that helped initiate the need to even rebalance Races isn't one of the top damage dealing races now? The nerve :P

Argonian will remain a top choice for healing and tanking and will be on the verge of OP in PvP due to the Resourceful passive.

Overperforming... Top... This is from your head or you saw it somewhere. Did you even tried to play as argonian dps?
That passive is useless sh*t, mostly just wasted to fill full bars

Kuramas9tails

Anyron wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Argonian was never a DD race, it's always been bis for sustain/healing. That's part of the uniqueness of the race, not every race should have the exact same damage/healing/sustain capabilities. They should be good in some areas and weaker in others.

Thing is thre are better healers ( breton + altmer) better tanks ( Nord, redguard) and every race is better for dps.

How is this ballanced?

We you complaining when 90% of tanks were Argonians because they were better suited for it?

Anyron

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Argonian was never a DD race, it's always been bis for sustain/healing. That's part of the uniqueness of the race, not every race should have the exact same damage/healing/sustain capabilities. They should be good in some areas and weaker in others.

Thing is thre are better healers ( breton + altmer) better tanks ( Nord, redguard) and every race is better for dps.

How is this ballanced?

We you complaining when 90% of tanks were Argonians because they were better suited for it?

They shouldnt be tanks at all. So yes it bothers me long time

Rikumaru

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

Anyron

Rikumaru wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Argonians are so strong in pvp (as any role) and make good tanks/healers in pve, I don't think you have much to complain about. The race is so strong it's basically broken.

I'd take the Argonian racials over the awful changes ZOS have made to High Elves in this PTS cycle (:

Go make an Argonian and take him into PvP on both Live and PTS then get back to me and tell me Argonian are still top pick.

Argonians are insanely OP on live right now at least in PvP. They are the best race for even STAMINA on live, are you seriously defending the live version of it? The nerfs don't kill the class at all, to be honest for magicka builds I'd rate them 2nd best (behind breton).

In this case everything is "insanely op". Every build, role and class.
You judge whole class because of tanks in pvp?
Resourceful is worth passive only for tanks.