Veteran players farming Kyne / <50lvl BGs - please read ZOS!

Mr_Walker

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

By people that are discouraged to play pvp I assume that you mean people that mainly play pve and I dare to go one step ahead and add people that mostly play casual pve.
So, trying not to put labels on players I will say, as a player that started the game as a casual, that there is a continuous idea promoted mostly by casual players that end game content is too hard and it should be nerfed. The same people shut down any new idea that brings any form of challenge to the game by invoking the title of customer. And by that I mean that their main arguement is that an additional challenge to the game will discourage new players and casuals from buying or paying the game. And that's their arguement and they have any right to support it.
But here is the catch. Those players eventualy will want to try some pvp as well. But pvp is the real end game. You are playing against people and not toned down npcs. Those people are not thinking about balancing the odds. They are not lactose intolerant they embrace the cheese! If you reached the end game by experiencing only a low level of difficulty you are going to struggle with pvp. The pvpers will chew you up and spit you out, And that's the reality.
So here is what I am saying to every player that says that they are discouraged from playing pvp and ask for toned down solutions on the lower level content. Don't be afraid of challenge. It's a game you have nothing to lose. It's a safe environment to put yourself up against anything. So go on ahead and play pvp, die and then die again, make mistakes and learn and then you will start winning and all that talk will eventualy become something completely ridiculous to you. But if you go on and lowering the standards you will always be surprised by the reality of the end game.

Oh lordy not casuals, they are rooning my gamez!

I can't take people serious when they start disparaging "casual" players. You know who "casual" players are? People with real jobs.

Chrlynsch

Zos has tried to approach balancing werewolves in low cp bgs. They changed where some of their bonuses are, making it so you must rank up your wolf before becoming as effective.

This really wasn't enough as it is relatively easy to level a werewolf compared to xp skill lines, or even world skill lines like vampirism.

D0PAMINE

Kadoin wrote: »

People forget something about PvP: eventually someone HAS to lose, and it can very well be you. Too bad the forums full of people that refuse to accept otherwise. It's astounding sometimes.

That's spot on.

NoMoreChillies

you will never stop ppl taking the easiest approach to achieve their end result.
Thus 2 solutions can be put in play:
1. Separate preamdes from solo queue
2. drastically increase XP gains in <50 BG and cyro. This will have 2 benefits - both annoying the "twinks" that have to recreate toons regularly and provide incentive for new players to PVP increasing the "new blood"

We all know new players are the lifeblood, so lets make QOL for them easier in under 50 PVP.

Linaleah

Kadoin wrote: »

People forget something about PvP: eventually someone HAS to lose, and it can very well be you. Too bad the forums full of people that refuse to accept otherwise. It's astounding sometimes.

I kinda missed this post for a moment.

there's losing and there's being crushed so horribly that you don't manage to fight back at all so you just wait out the battleground until its over. it can be very disheartening sometimes. that said... I honestly have no idea how to avoid that sort of experience.

Kurat

PVP is fun if that's what you're into and have pvp build. But I absolutely hate when I make a new pve toon and get totally rekt over and over again in BGs by premade pvp groups and OP werewolves. But if you wanna be competitive in pve you are forced to pvp to unlock skills. That is bs and not fun to get *** by pvp kids who later brag and tell others in forums to l2p. I dont care about pvp and dont wanna learn, I just need my damn alliance skills. Pvp and pve should be kept separate, why is Zos forcing this on us.

Shantu

I think people take dying in PVP too personally. There will always be players better than you, organized farming groups looking for fresh meat, jerks that will teabag your carcass, and things that feel unfair everywhere. It's the nature of the beast. I always get a good chuckle out of how much zeal 20 players will put into chasing down 1 guy running for his life. For most of us middling players, you win some, and you lose more. You do your best, try to learn how to improve, and move on to the next battle. It's a game. Find some fun in it.

Colecovision

It's simply a crap gaming experience to get hit over and over by an off camera opponent. I thought the dreamcast and original xbox did a great job of teaching us that, but eso needs to learn it again. So for me, as long as ganking and snipe are such a huge part of ESO pvp, it's fun is severely limited.

delete snipe and buff dark cloak

jainiadral

FWIW, other players and werewolves have very little to do with why I don't PvP in this game. I suck. I expect to be killed constantly. That never kept me out of sPvP or WvW in GW2 or doing a brief stint of daily warzones in SWTOR.

Nope, what killed it for me in this game was:

1) crappy BG rewards scaling for the daily random (on the #3 team you get less XP than opening a chest)
2) getting insulted by the game after the fact (what was it, "Rewards for the Cowardly?")

I get that if you're a competitive sort, trash talk is fun and motivating. I'm not. Having the game trash talk me made me quit.

Vapirko

Shantu wrote: »

I think people take dying in PVP too personally. There will always be players better than you, organized farming groups looking for fresh meat, jerks that will teabag your carcass, and things that feel unfair everywhere. It's the nature of the beast. I always get a good chuckle out of how much zeal 20 players will put into chasing down 1 guy running for his life. For most of us middling players, you win some, and you lose more. You do your best, try to learn how to improve, and move on to the next battle. It's a game. Find some fun in it.

It’s hard for new players. What makes PvP continue to appeal to experienced and end game PvPers is exactly what makes it frustrating for new players. What I enjoy doing now, the way I like to play now, is very much what I hated people for doing when I was bad at PvP. That’s good for people who love PvP and will continually get rekt until we figure it out but it’s bad for the people who like to there to be a formula to getting better like PvE. There’s no way to change that.

Ydrisselle

Shantu wrote: »

I think people take dying in PVP too personally. There will always be players better than you, organized farming groups looking for fresh meat, jerks that will teabag your carcass, and things that feel unfair everywhere. It's the nature of the beast. I always get a good chuckle out of how much zeal 20 players will put into chasing down 1 guy running for his life. For most of us middling players, you win some, and you lose more. You do your best, try to learn how to improve, and move on to the next battle. It's a game. Find some fun in it.

But there is nothing fun if you can't even land a spell before you are dead.

D0PAMINE

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

I think people take dying in PVP too personally. There will always be players better than you, organized farming groups looking for fresh meat, jerks that will teabag your carcass, and things that feel unfair everywhere. It's the nature of the beast. I always get a good chuckle out of how much zeal 20 players will put into chasing down 1 guy running for his life. For most of us middling players, you win some, and you lose more. You do your best, try to learn how to improve, and move on to the next battle. It's a game. Find some fun in it.

But there is nothing fun if you can't even land a spell before you are dead.

You might need to work on your build a bit. Im not trying to be rude. Check your weaknesses and strengthen them.

Commancho

I have changed the tittle of the thread to be more accurate - thread is about veteran players continuously farming rookie campaign and BGs under lvl 50. Please, don't turn this into PVE vs PVP flame war or "XYZ should /shouldn't be nerfed".

Kel

I've been playing this game since shortly after launch.

That being said, where are all these players that teach? I learned PvP by doing PvP, mostly solo, while IN A PvP GUILD!
PvP players keep thier secrets...they don't teach hardly anything. Known PvP youtubers don't, or very rarely, put out builds that they themselves use. Simply because they don't want other players to have the success they have, or have thier build used against them. In short, PvP players are the most secretive...some may be willing to teach, but most do not.

So, I disagree with saying a guild will teach you anything useful. They'll let you tag along...they'll tell you things like "keep up your vigor", but honestly you should already know that type of thing.
But if you expect them to share builds or give anything beyond general advice, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

D0PAMINE

Kel wrote: »

I've been playing this game since shortly after launch.

That being said, where are all these players that teach? I learned PvP by doing PvP, mostly solo, while IN A PvP GUILD!
PvP players keep thier secrets...they don't teach hardly anything. Known PvP youtubers don't, or very rarely, put out builds that they themselves use. Simply because they don't want other players to have the success they have, or have thier build used against them. In short, PvP players are the most secretive...some may be willing to teach, but most do not.

So, I disagree with saying a guild will teach you anything useful. They'll let you tag along...they'll tell you things like "keep up your vigor", but honestly you should already know that type of thing.
But if you expect them to share builds or give anything beyond general advice, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Everything I have learned about PvP has been from friends and even enemies. I would whisper someone in Cyro after a fight and usually they were helpful in telling me how to improve my build or playstyle. I always ask questions. I was also a test dummy for disgusting builds too lol.

Kel

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

I've been playing this game since shortly after launch.

That being said, where are all these players that teach? I learned PvP by doing PvP, mostly solo, while IN A PvP GUILD!
PvP players keep thier secrets...they don't teach hardly anything. Known PvP youtubers don't, or very rarely, put out builds that they themselves use. Simply because they don't want other players to have the success they have, or have thier build used against them. In short, PvP players are the most secretive...some may be willing to teach, but most do not.

So, I disagree with saying a guild will teach you anything useful. They'll let you tag along...they'll tell you things like "keep up your vigor", but honestly you should already know that type of thing.
But if you expect them to share builds or give anything beyond general advice, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Everything I have learned about PvP has been from friends and even enemies. I would whisper someone in Cyro after a fight and usually they were helpful in telling me how to improve my build or playstyle. I always ask questions. I was also a test dummy for disgusting builds too lol.

And what would that be?
Seems like a good thread to drop some knowledge and a build or two, eh?

jainiadral

jainiadral wrote: »

FWIW, other players and werewolves have very little to do with why I don't PvP in this game. I suck. I expect to be killed constantly. That never kept me out of sPvP or WvW in GW2 or doing a brief stint of daily warzones in SWTOR.

Nope, what killed it for me in this game was:

1) crappy BG rewards scaling for the daily random (on the #3 team you get less XP than opening a chest)
2) getting insulted by the game after the fact (what was it, "Rewards for the Cowardly?")

I get that if you're a competitive sort, trash talk is fun and motivating. I'm not. Having the game trash talk me made me quit.

I think I should also add that merely doing a BG should satisfy the quest conditions, rather than hoping that you, n00b turnip artichoke are lucky enough to get carried by peeps who have a clue about the process. Winners could get additional massive rewards, but the losing teams should be able to finish the quest and get base rewards.

D0PAMINE

Kel wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

I've been playing this game since shortly after launch.

That being said, where are all these players that teach? I learned PvP by doing PvP, mostly solo, while IN A PvP GUILD!
PvP players keep thier secrets...they don't teach hardly anything. Known PvP youtubers don't, or very rarely, put out builds that they themselves use. Simply because they don't want other players to have the success they have, or have thier build used against them. In short, PvP players are the most secretive...some may be willing to teach, but most do not.

So, I disagree with saying a guild will teach you anything useful. They'll let you tag along...they'll tell you things like "keep up your vigor", but honestly you should already know that type of thing.
But if you expect them to share builds or give anything beyond general advice, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Everything I have learned about PvP has been from friends and even enemies. I would whisper someone in Cyro after a fight and usually they were helpful in telling me how to improve my build or playstyle. I always ask questions. I was also a test dummy for disgusting builds too lol.

And what would that be?
Seems like a good thread to drop some knowledge and a build or two, eh?

For one thing I was completely oblivious to using skill combos, and I was not pairing skills with passives. Anyone can copy a build, but developing the skill to use it can be a nightmare without some guidance. I also never knew I was wasting CP points by not rounding them properly, like having 25.67% instead of 25.1%. Things like that. It also helped me greatly to see how others react to what im doing. How they anticipate me, and what their recovery and counter strategy is.

templesus

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pzschrek
Not sure how I can "farm" AP in BGs when I've strictly played PvP solo unless I get Emperor then I'll hop groups to help whatever obj wanting to be pushed.

@Commancho
You're not in PvP where you're fighting a werewolf let alone two/more on a consistent basis, it seems you're trying obfuscate now and that's not going to solve anything. You talk about having to get more skill-points then this is a entirely different topic you're bringing up which I suggest you advocate for sky shards/quests/AvA ranks to carry over to new characters, which would solve your problem. I still don't get your point because again you just changed it from "I can't win" to "I can win but they have skill points and armor" like I don't get it mate.

@templesus
I'm glad to see that sarcasm because there's no #1 class to fight werewolves, that kind of talk like "DKs are top of the dueling food chain" nonsense is what got my damn class nerfed in passives and abilities. Werewolves are easily countered thanks to Fighter guild skill line as passives allow you to dole out more damage, and DBoS can wreck them if you follow up with a combo.
Any class can do a combo with a CC both small/hard as DoTs tick followed with ability or HA into DBoS, surely you haven't forgotten that.

Werewolves take 25% increased damage from poison.

Stam DK has 2 in class poison dots and a poison dot ultimate.

Stam DK is logically the best class to fight werewolves.

Do your homework next time. Clearly your knowledge on game mechanics was lacking so I’ll forgive your attempts at baiting me.

WHAT

Corrosive Armor deals ONLY 1338.75 damage (werewolf 25% damage included).

Per second that also ignores all resistances.

[Edit to remove bait]

ArchMikem

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Commancho
Need a basis on how you came up with your "research" for #1 because that's some tinfoil hat tomfoolery if I say so myself.

You need to invest in fighter guild passives and skills + get a better build if you're struggling against an average werewolf player. I literally play a Stam DK in PvP (non meta so no masks/FoM) yet I steam roll them even though we're the weakest AvA class there is. So #2 is a clear L2P issue.

So your solutions also do not make any sense, after reading your complaint it seems more of a "I got steam-rolled in PvP, so let me complain about it" type of thread. Mate you honestly just need to work on your build, I solo queue battlegrounds and I still can wreck a team if my team-mates are competent or listen to what I say/stay tight-knit.

Did you even notice the OP is talking about the Below 50 Campaign and BGs meant for newer inexperienced players?

Ydrisselle

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

I think people take dying in PVP too personally. There will always be players better than you, organized farming groups looking for fresh meat, jerks that will teabag your carcass, and things that feel unfair everywhere. It's the nature of the beast. I always get a good chuckle out of how much zeal 20 players will put into chasing down 1 guy running for his life. For most of us middling players, you win some, and you lose more. You do your best, try to learn how to improve, and move on to the next battle. It's a game. Find some fun in it.

But there is nothing fun if you can't even land a spell before you are dead.

You might need to work on your build a bit. Im not trying to be rude. Check your weaknesses and strengthen them.

I usually do that for something I find fun in the game. PvP is clearly not - at least for me.
Just to be clear: I don't do any kind of PvP, unless I'm very, very bored, because my experience with it shows me that I only will end very frustrated, which is clearly not a reason for me to play at all.

Kel

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

I've been playing this game since shortly after launch.

That being said, where are all these players that teach? I learned PvP by doing PvP, mostly solo, while IN A PvP GUILD!
PvP players keep thier secrets...they don't teach hardly anything. Known PvP youtubers don't, or very rarely, put out builds that they themselves use. Simply because they don't want other players to have the success they have, or have thier build used against them. In short, PvP players are the most secretive...some may be willing to teach, but most do not.

So, I disagree with saying a guild will teach you anything useful. They'll let you tag along...they'll tell you things like "keep up your vigor", but honestly you should already know that type of thing.
But if you expect them to share builds or give anything beyond general advice, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Everything I have learned about PvP has been from friends and even enemies. I would whisper someone in Cyro after a fight and usually they were helpful in telling me how to improve my build or playstyle. I always ask questions. I was also a test dummy for disgusting builds too lol.

And what would that be?
Seems like a good thread to drop some knowledge and a build or two, eh?

For one thing I was completely oblivious to using skill combos, and I was not pairing skills with passives. Anyone can copy a build, but developing the skill to use it can be a nightmare without some guidance. I also never knew I was wasting CP points by not rounding them properly, like having 25.67% instead of 25.1%. Things like that. It also helped me greatly to see how others react to what im doing. How they anticipate me, and what their recovery and counter strategy is.

You could give that same general advice for PvE, though. That's exactly the same vague, non specific stuff I'm talking about. And if build was so unimportant as you're trying to downplay, why won't players share thier actual builds? I noticed you did not when plainly asked...you're not unique in that.
As I said, PvP'ers are not some open fount of knowledge..they are the most secretive of players..
You are actually proving my point...

Kel

*
Double post..please delete

An_An

@Commancho
Hello. I've been playing in Kyne for the last 6 months (when I started PvP) or so and have recently split time between it and vet (Sotha). While I do understand how frustrating it is dying in Kyne (you thought it'd be a piece of cake didn't you ), I should clarify some things.

1. Everyone dies in Kyne, just like everyone dies in vet. My kill to death ratio was 10:100, no exaggeration. Now I can atleast hold my own in 1v1 in vet. Barely.
2. There are re-rollers on all factions.
3. Re-rollers make up the dominant population of Kyne (atleast 50%). Kyne doesn't have a huge pop, so I can tell.
4. Apart from a few tryhards, most people don't have the time for grinding dawnbreaker and elite gear.
5. There are occasional new players who join, (I'd say 1 in 10 people in Kyne has not PvP'd for more than 2 weeks). They die a lot, get frustrated, join a group and play that way. Some like it and stay.
6. If you take away the rerollers, Kyne will die. On average we have 15 people live on each faction. Maybe 20 during prime time. That's it. If there are no rerollers, it will be a BIG loss to pop. And these things are like a self-fulfilling prophecy, since newer players like to see big fights.
7. People need to try different classes and playstyles. Do you honestly expect me to level my warden to 50, grinding undaunted (let's face it we need it for no-CP), skyshards and lorebooks and BiS gear before I realize that I don't like this class? (I love my warden this is just an example)
8. Many people (skilled and otherwise) are perfectly happy with the relatively low skill required to play in Kyne. Many of us are old and have full time jobs. We don't have time to compete with Fengrush. I'm improving, but slowly.
9. KYNE WORKS. I'm a product of Kyne. It made me want to improve and eventually move to vet. Three major guilds I know have moved to vet PvP (Vivec and Shor) in the last 3 months. Newer people have come in Kyne now. I recognize fewer people now.

And lastly -
I have just one toon for vet pvp as of now. I am trying to vet toons through Kyne to use. I REFUSE to lap Alik'r to level up. I have a life.

I'm not someone who has been playing since beta. I was a newbie in Kyne. I got frustrated at re-rollers. I met a guy who would duo with me and he taught me stuff like - use sets. (I didn't even know that!). I met a lot of people and made friends.

This is just my experience and observation as a newer member of the Kyne community (which if you didn't know is a delight, in a very very non-toxic way), who not until long was thinking along similar lines like you . If you want to group up just let me know in game (@An-An). I can also direct you to some good people on any faction who can group with you.

As for your suggestion for half AP - Great idea. It seems fair. I think some rewards are already halved.

laksikus

Commancho wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

There are very few monster or dungeon sets running around in Kyne, that is an exaggeration.
Yes there are overland and crafted sets being used, but even a new player can buy or get friends to craft a set for them.
Also there are fewer ultimates getting used because those unlock at skill level 50.
This is the primary reason there is less lag and has made Kyne fun to play for the last 5 years.
So much misinformation being spread.

I have seen rank 30 spell strategist golden inferno staff by myself dude... I think that you guys, who can't leave Kyne/BGs under 50 lvl are a little exaggarating. It's time to ride without training wheels and apply your own advices about getting good, because I can't find any other excuse for staying in low rank campaings with BiS gear forever. Well, you can stay there, but AP should be halved because it's REWARD OF THE WORTHY and in my opinion you are not worthy at all...

anyone that uses a spell strat staff in kyne didnt understand battleleveling properly.
he is a noob himself and should be allowed to play in kyne.

Commancho

@An_An
Thank you for very long feedback. I do agree, that separating completly new players from new toons of veteran players is not a good idea. High CP PVE players who finally decide to try PVP should also have a chance to learn. All I'm asking is halving a rewards so people who have made a good buissness model from this <farming AP, telvars etc> will have to play double as much as real veterans to get similiar rewards... Do you want to stay there because it's fun or you are bad? Sure, no problem, but no extra benefits!

Asys

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

And the solution would be what? Locking experienced players out of Kyne? Halfing AP gain? HAH! That would be ridiculous

Ridiculus is asking new players or people who make new toons to spend all their time on farming/crafting BiS gear every 4 lvls, having maxed out fighters guild (that's 100+ dolmens?) and telling them to collect tens of skyshards and to join competitive PVP guild so they can compete against one or more guys who just got a werewolf bite from a friend and they feel glorious when spamming light attack and getting easy kills on new players or new toons.

Thanks also for explaining us mechanics how to counter werewolves, but I think you are just wasting your time on explaining things which everyone knows, because you still don't understand the point of this thread. Which is - AP farming in low rank PVP should be halved, so weteran players will move on to veteran PVP instead of farming it repeatedly.

You are not only hurting PVP community by doing so, but also you are hurting yourselves, because once you go to real PVP you will realise that being a werewolf <or even a pack of werewolves> is like running with a note on your back "shoot here". Werewolves are not a threat even for average pvp 50+ player because they have gear and enaugh abilities & skillpoints unlocked to counter them <without tedious grinding>.

I would even say that werewolves in 50+ could use a buff because they are close to being useless against any competitive group which will simply laugh at you. I think you know this and you have probably experienced this, but because you have no clue and will to learn how to play in human form, you have decided to go this shameful path. I really hope ZOS will adress this issue, especialy that new players don't even need AP and this is bait only for toxic players who can't play the game fair.

I don't think AP should be halfed at all in under lvl 50 because I like many other players enjoy playing there. You can't punish everyone just because some people know how to play the game

So Dovakiin5574 - you have been in Kyne since 2016. Says all about your skills, hah

Corpier

Last time I was in Kyne was over half a year ago when leveling a new character and I wanted to get Vigor, Combat Frenzy, etc before the character entered the real pvp servers.

I made a similar observation of more experience and better geared potatoes farming the new potatoes. When they got to 50 they deleted their characters and reused gear on new ones. A few told me they were doing so themselves.

I thought this could tarnish new players' impression of the game and I made a forum post sharing the concerns I had after learning of people trying to abuse a system. You can find it here if you are interested:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/426446/is-battleleveling-too-strong#latest

On the bright side the new players who vet out and move on will quickly become better players that could go back and beat their old bullies if they want to. Even the best who cling to Kyne are still noobs in comparison to those who are competitive in the vet servers. As long as they take the easy route, farming noobs instead of learning to fight those of equal or greater skill and gear, they will never learn how to play. It isn't hard to mash potatoes, and you don't need things like knowledge of how to animation cancel, counter specific builds, theorycraft, etc... to kill new players. Those being carried by gear, gear they have clung to and reused for up to 5 years to fight new players who might not even know what set or upgraded gear is, will never become much better players than they were when they started.

Fur_like_snow

Rerolls don’t care about AP. The players who do care about AP go to a dead campaign with their friends and flip empty keeps. These “real veterans” you keep talking about avoid the PvP if they are AP centric. They earn way more in much less time than any potato mashing BG premade. No one seriously farms TV on Kyne they go to vet campaign with CP enabled because it’s faster killing bosses.

Reducing the amount of AP/TV earned isn’t going to change anything. Come up with a better idea OP.

heaven13

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Kyne is actually quite fun. Minimal cheese, no broken CP. Guards and siege matter. And yes, everyone else is also low on skill points.

Generally, people play pretty straight up.

There are a few mega Yolo swag try hards with gold gear and Meteor or Dawnbreaker at level 20.

My only issue with Kyne is the Vet players do very little to pick up or help new players. Often, they will openly berate new people in chat.

The biggest killer of PVP is not lag, it’s toxic/elite players.

I almost never PvPed. Ever. I knew I would be horrible so I basically did the Welcome to Cyrodiil quests on my characters and that was it. Occasionally I would go repair walls for a little bit of AP so I could earn warhorn on my tank and healer.

So last year's midyear mayhem (not the one that just passed, but the actual mid-year one), I took a newer alt into Kyne. I was ready to learn more about PvP and figured that was the place to do it. Except zone chat was awful. There were people, as you saying, being absolutely rude about how "does no one know _____" and how all the noobs around them were just ruining the experience. I left.

I haven't been back to Kyne since. When I PvP now, even on low level alts, I just take them into regular campaigns because there, people are actually helpful. The most recent mid-year, my level 27 new healer needed 5 more resources to capture for the conquest quest. A max level cp prefect whispered me and said "meet me at" and waited for me to get there on my not maxed out horse speed. And took me around and helped me capture my last 5 resources. Even though it was just me and them. Sure, they could have done it themselves. But they were nice enough to help and even told ME thank you because it made it a bit faster for them too. So yeah, no Kyne for me.