Veteran players farming Kyne / <50lvl BGs - please read ZOS!

Linaleah

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I agree with you for new players its a nigthmare but now who cares as,

Forum is no longer a place to discuss but lot of player only criticized negatively.

Community is bit out of hand!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

It's not out of hand at all. Why change a game for the new people when they can literally just put the time and effort into actually learning how to play. It's nothing more than another "I'm lazy so let's make this all about me and make the game super easy and boring". I'm tired of these posts. Learn to play or don't bother. Nothing out of hand about that.

you are a ray of sunshine, aren't you. new blood is lifeblood of the MMO longevity. veterans leave eventually. no matter how good the game is, no matter how much they are catered to - for most people playing the same game for years - tires them out sooner or later. you HAVE to have new players come in to replace the old and it does help to make that game more welcoming to them.

that said, I'm not sure how to self lowbie battleground issue other then possibly separate premade vs solo queues? but even then, I don't know what it would do to wait times what concerns OP IS absolutely valid.

Tetrafy

West1389 wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

You know how you fix the problem. Disallow those from joining under 50 if theyre on an alt.

That wouldn't work I'm back and forth on a alt. Both my toons are below 50, just started in pc.

No I mean once you get cps disallow the use of being able to go into under 50. Force them to play in no cp or cp campaigns.

MajBludd

@dovakiin5574 so you are a pve player mainly? I'm just trying to gauge the amount of time you've actually spent in kyne.

I was there, a lot. Was told the tricks to get an edge, used many of them and then I saw the problem with it.

Farming dawn breaker, meteor, or grinding dungeons for a month straight to get automaton set or Burning spell weave for every 4 levels for lvls 20-50 doesn't make you a good player.

It just means you have an advantage over those that know no better. If these players that do this in under 50 want to feel how skilled they are, move to vet. I've seen people who have played this game, for 4 yrs or more, and never leave kyne. Most aren't even halfway to cp cap.

I get that they have a right to be there because they paid for the game etc, I get that, but at some point you have to say, "me playing in under 50 may actually be hurting the pvp population."

If they are that good, move to vet and prove it. But I bet most will find they are mediocre at best when they don't have a guy in random green gear and no Impen to rek.

West1389

Tetrafy wrote: »

West1389 wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

You know how you fix the problem. Disallow those from joining under 50 if theyre on an alt.

That wouldn't work I'm back and forth on a alt. Both my toons are below 50, just started in pc.

No I mean once you get cps disallow the use of being able to go into under 50. Force them to play in no cp or cp campaigns.

Ya that would work

Fur_like_snow

1. Those players don’t care about AP. If that was their focus they would go to a PvDoor campaign and flip empty keeps. Often times they are just simply interested in potato mashing.
2. Removing vampire and werewolves entirely would be problematic. Though I do agree werewolf scales increadibly well in low level PvP.

It’s funny that some of the names I see in low level BGs are the same players who couldn’t hack it in vet. So they went to the place where they could get 26-0 on a werewolf or NB.

MaxwellC

@pzschrek
Not sure how I can "farm" AP in BGs when I've strictly played PvP solo unless I get Emperor then I'll hop groups to help whatever obj wanting to be pushed.

@Commancho
You're not in PvP where you're fighting a werewolf let alone two/more on a consistent basis, it seems you're trying obfuscate now and that's not going to solve anything. You talk about having to get more skill-points then this is a entirely different topic you're bringing up which I suggest you advocate for sky shards/quests/AvA ranks to carry over to new characters, which would solve your problem. I still don't get your point because again you just changed it from "I can't win" to "I can win but they have skill points and armor" like I don't get it mate.

@templesus
I'm glad to see that sarcasm because there's no #1 class to fight werewolves, that kind of talk like "DKs are top of the dueling food chain" nonsense is what got my damn class nerfed in passives and abilities. Werewolves are easily countered thanks to Fighter guild skill line as passives allow you to dole out more damage, and DBoS can wreck them if you follow up with a combo.
Any class can do a combo with a CC both small/hard as DoTs tick followed with ability or HA into DBoS, surely you haven't forgotten that.

Ruckly

You are complaining about twinks, something that has been around since at least WoW vanilla.

The simple solution is to queue for your battleground daily first. If you run into twinks and have no shot at 2nd leave and do your daily dungeon. After dungeon try BGs again. If same problem don't bother bashing your head into your screen do something else.

templesus

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pzschrek
Not sure how I can "farm" AP in BGs when I've strictly played PvP solo unless I get Emperor then I'll hop groups to help whatever obj wanting to be pushed.

@Commancho
You're not in PvP where you're fighting a werewolf let alone two/more on a consistent basis, it seems you're trying obfuscate now and that's not going to solve anything. You talk about having to get more skill-points then this is a entirely different topic you're bringing up which I suggest you advocate for sky shards/quests/AvA ranks to carry over to new characters, which would solve your problem. I still don't get your point because again you just changed it from "I can't win" to "I can win but they have skill points and armor" like I don't get it mate.

@templesus
I'm glad to see that sarcasm because there's no #1 class to fight werewolves, that kind of talk like "DKs are top of the dueling food chain" nonsense is what got my damn class nerfed in passives and abilities. Werewolves are easily countered thanks to Fighter guild skill line as passives allow you to dole out more damage, and DBoS can wreck them if you follow up with a combo.
Any class can do a combo with a CC both small/hard as DoTs tick followed with ability or HA into DBoS, surely you haven't forgotten that.

Werewolves take 25% increased damage from poison.

Stam DK has 2 in class poison dots and a poison dot ultimate.

Stam DK is logically the best class to fight werewolves.

Do your homework next time. Clearly your knowledge on game mechanics was lacking so I’ll forgive your attempts at baiting me.

ChunkyCat

Battlegrounds are the VMA of PvP.

MaxwellC

@templesus
Ok so if that's you reasoning then clearly that's a weak one. Two DoTs and a ultimate i.e corrosive armor? Woah buddy surely you're joking right but alas you're not.

Again any class that setups correctly can kill a werewolf easily, take NBs they can apply defiles from their class skill and disengage combat with cloak. So again mate there is no "logic" you claim of other than two weak arguments. Being a werewolf doesn't automatically make you better than another player so I suggest you at-least come to me with a stronger argument rather than this weak one.

Edit: Now I'm honestly curious, what's your AvA rank and kills?

idk

First, Zos is doing a full review of combat in this game, including CP (not relevant to OP) with the racial passives being the first pass. Granted, this development of a vision for combat in this game should have been done years ago. If this is done reasonably well it should help balance out aspects of the game.

However, reading OP's first point it seems that they are really complaining that they have to go up against players that know how to gear and how to play. It is not possible, and really not logical, to have a PvP only for those who have not played the game more that a few months. It would be an empty experience.

Seems more like a good opportunity for someone to use one of those 5 guild slots and join a PvP guild and learn how to PvP in this game.

Emmagoldman

@dovakiin5574 doesnt that also apply to end game players sitting in kayne?

Thats really sad, like walking into a kindergarten with a bat going to town and yelling out, if you want to get better! Either play or stop whining!!! Maybe its time to take the training wheels off and go into end game campaigns and have a challenge...you know, so you can learn and get bettee....

Lowbies have their own ability levels and the learning curve is more appropriate

dovakiin5574

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@dovakiin5574 doesnt that also apply to end game players sitting in kayne?

Thats really sad, like walking into a kindergarten with a bat going to town and yelling out, if you want to get better! Either play or stop whining!!! Maybe its time to take the training wheels off and go into end game campaigns and have a challenge...you know, so you can learn and get bettee....

Lowbies have their own ability levels and the learning curve is more appropriate

And the solution would be what? Locking experienced players out of Kyne? Halfing AP gain? HAH! That would be ridiculous

oxygen_thief

Kadoin wrote: »

People forget something about PvP: eventually someone HAS to lose, and it can very well be you. Too bad the forums full of people that refuse to accept otherwise. It's astounding sometimes.

its a main reason why pvp is unpopular. people afraid to loose and die. lags and bugs are the second one.

KhajiitFelix

Just no. For me low level BGs are the only comfortable way to get caltrops for new stamina character. But I also do BGs on mages, healers and tanks. Why? Because it give a lot of exp which i need to level my character to level 50.
Also experienced player wouldn't farm AP, especially on noobs. So are you sure that enemies you met are cheating?

KhajiitFelix

templesus wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pzschrek
Not sure how I can "farm" AP in BGs when I've strictly played PvP solo unless I get Emperor then I'll hop groups to help whatever obj wanting to be pushed.

@Commancho
You're not in PvP where you're fighting a werewolf let alone two/more on a consistent basis, it seems you're trying obfuscate now and that's not going to solve anything. You talk about having to get more skill-points then this is a entirely different topic you're bringing up which I suggest you advocate for sky shards/quests/AvA ranks to carry over to new characters, which would solve your problem. I still don't get your point because again you just changed it from "I can't win" to "I can win but they have skill points and armor" like I don't get it mate.

@templesus
I'm glad to see that sarcasm because there's no #1 class to fight werewolves, that kind of talk like "DKs are top of the dueling food chain" nonsense is what got my damn class nerfed in passives and abilities. Werewolves are easily countered thanks to Fighter guild skill line as passives allow you to dole out more damage, and DBoS can wreck them if you follow up with a combo.
Any class can do a combo with a CC both small/hard as DoTs tick followed with ability or HA into DBoS, surely you haven't forgotten that.

Werewolves take 25% increased damage from poison.

Stam DK has 2 in class poison dots and a poison dot ultimate.

Stam DK is logically the best class to fight werewolves.

Do your homework next time. Clearly your knowledge on game mechanics was lacking so I’ll forgive your attempts at baiting me.

WHAT

Corrosive Armor deals ONLY 1338.75 damage (werewolf 25% damage included).

Commancho

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

And the solution would be what? Locking experienced players out of Kyne? Halfing AP gain? HAH! That would be ridiculous

Ridiculus is asking new players or people who make new toons to spend all their time on farming/crafting BiS gear every 4 lvls, having maxed out fighters guild (that's 100+ dolmens?) and telling them to collect tens of skyshards and to join competitive PVP guild so they can compete against one or more guys who just got a werewolf bite from a friend and they feel glorious when spamming light attack and getting easy kills on new players or new toons.

Thanks also for explaining us mechanics how to counter werewolves, but I think you are just wasting your time on explaining things which everyone knows, because you still don't understand the point of this thread. Which is - AP farming in low rank PVP should be halved, so weteran players will move on to veteran PVP instead of farming it repeatedly.

You are not only hurting PVP community by doing so, but also you are hurting yourselves, because once you go to real PVP you will realise that being a werewolf <or even a pack of werewolves> is like running with a note on your back "shoot here". Werewolves are not a threat even for average pvp 50+ player because they have gear and enaugh abilities & skillpoints unlocked to counter them <without tedious grinding>.

I would even say that werewolves in 50+ could use a buff because they are close to being useless against any competitive group which will simply laugh at you. I think you know this and you have probably experienced this, but because you have no clue and will to learn how to play in human form, you have decided to go this shameful path. I really hope ZOS will adress this issue, especialy that new players don't even need AP and this is bait only for toxic players who can't play the game fair.

dovakiin5574

Commancho wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

And the solution would be what? Locking experienced players out of Kyne? Halfing AP gain? HAH! That would be ridiculous

Ridiculus is asking new players or people who make new toons to spend all their time on farming/crafting BiS gear every 4 lvls, having maxed out fighters guild (that's 100+ dolmens?) and telling them to collect tens of skyshards and to join competitive PVP guild so they can compete against one or more guys who just got a werewolf bite from a friend and they feel glorious when spamming light attack and getting easy kills on new players or new toons.

Thanks also for explaining us mechanics how to counter werewolves, but I think you are just wasting your time on explaining things which everyone knows, because you still don't understand the point of this thread. Which is - AP farming in low rank PVP should be halved, so weteran players will move on to veteran PVP instead of farming it repeatedly.

You are not only hurting PVP community by doing so, but also you are hurting yourselves, because once you go to real PVP you will realise that being a werewolf <or even a pack of werewolves> is like running with a note on your back "shoot here". Werewolves are not a threat even for average pvp 50+ player because they have gear and enaugh abilities & skillpoints unlocked to counter them <without tedious grinding>.

I would even say that werewolves in 50+ could use a buff because they are close to being useless against any competitive group which will simply laugh at you. I think you know this and you have probably experienced this, but because you have no clue and will to learn how to play in human form, you have decided to go this shameful path. I really hope ZOS will adress this issue, especialy that new players don't even need AP and this is bait only for toxic players who can't play the game fair.

I don't think AP should be halfed at all in under lvl 50 because I like many other players enjoy playing there. You can't punish everyone just because some people know how to play the game

LittlePinkDot

I think just simply dueling is the best way to learn.

coop500

As a werewolf player myself, I find a single player with good poison abilities shut me down fast... And our range is zero, so that's another issue. Use CC, it's easy for Werewolves to run low on stamina because our abilities cost so much, thus making break free sometimes unable to be used if our stamina is too low.

Since werewolves also lack purge make use of harmful effects/dots. We have counters and a nerf is the last thing we need, we're finally worth a damn, but we have plenty of hard counters.

As for issue 1, well.... I agree it's ***, but farming lower level people has been a thing of gaming for ages, I doubt it will ever change.

coop500

For god's sake don't nerf werewolves just for under level 50 people.... that would be dumb as *** and we'll be back to being useless again. Things should be balanced with people above level 50 in mind at the very least.

Commancho

coop500 wrote: »

For god's sake don't nerf werewolves just for under level 50 people.... that would be dumb as *** and we'll be back to being useless again. Things should be balanced with people above level 50 in mind at the very least.

Nobody was asking for that in this thread mate. Werewolves are underperforming in 50+ and everyone knows that....

coop500

Commancho wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

For god's sake don't nerf werewolves just for under level 50 people.... that would be dumb as *** and we'll be back to being useless again. Things should be balanced with people above level 50 in mind at the very least.

Nobody was asking for that in this thread mate. Werewolves are underperforming in 50+ and everyone knows that....

You gotta remember who you're talking to, ZOS, the nerf kings, they love making dumb choices and complains like this, if ZOS listens, the only thing they're gonna see out of this is 'nerf werewolves'.

Emmagoldman

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@dovakiin5574 doesnt that also apply to end game players sitting in kayne?

Thats really sad, like walking into a kindergarten with a bat going to town and yelling out, if you want to get better! Either play or stop whining!!! Maybe its time to take the training wheels off and go into end game campaigns and have a challenge...you know, so you can learn and get bettee....

Lowbies have their own ability levels and the learning curve is more appropriate

And the solution would be what? Locking experienced players out of Kyne? Halfing AP gain? HAH! That would be ridiculous

Take your own advice.

To their complaint, you replied they need to go against more experienced players to learn. All the while, you crutch your ability by hiding in a beginner pvp campaign.

The solution, join an end game pvp zone and stop hiding. Your the equivalent of a 30 year old un karate class with a bunch of six your olds.

Linaleah

lone werewolves are easy enough to deal with - no easy is a bad word... they are doable, counterable.. its when 4 of them in a group focus specific player one at a time (leap>stun>burst>dead).. that's when they are a pain. but... i will never EVER begrudge anyone using strategy and tactics effectively. I may dislike being on a receiving end of it.. but I have to admire them for teamwork and effectiveness that comes from said teamwork.

coop500

Linaleah wrote: »

lone werewolves are easy enough to deal with - no easy is a bad word... they are doable, counterable.. its when 4 of them in a group focus specific player one at a time (leap>stun>burst>dead).. that's when they are a pain. but... i will never EVER begrudge anyone using strategy and tactics effectively. I may dislike being on a receiving end of it.. but I have to admire them for teamwork and effectiveness that comes from said teamwork.

I mean, doesn't this go for 4 of anything vs 1? CC, burst, dead, that is what PVP is all about seems like.

I don't get why werewolves are being picked on here when the same can be said about any decent 4 builds vs 1 okay build

Linaleah

coop500 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

lone werewolves are easy enough to deal with - no easy is a bad word... they are doable, counterable.. its when 4 of them in a group focus specific player one at a time (leap>stun>burst>dead).. that's when they are a pain. but... i will never EVER begrudge anyone using strategy and tactics effectively. I may dislike being on a receiving end of it.. but I have to admire them for teamwork and effectiveness that comes from said teamwork.

I mean, doesn't this go for 4 of anything vs 1? CC, burst, dead, that is what PVP is all about seems like.

I don't get why werewolves are being picked on here when the same can be said about any decent 4 builds vs 1 okay build

I mean.. you ARE very much correct on that, its just...werewolves are very visible when they do it. they jump right in your face so its very visceral. well werewolves and bow users get the brunt of complaints, cause werewolves are in your face, and bow users are so at a distance, that player may not realize what is happening until they are dead. (will freely admit to using high ground and vantage points to pew pew at people, cause strategy and I'm way too squishy in melee)

in any case, its kinda the point I was making. werewolves are no worse to deal with than any other spec you may come across in a BG. and i HAVE died to a lone werewolf, cause I didn't notice them until it was too late, but that's on me. if I get an opportunity to kite? they may still kill me cause well.. I'm not very good and all, but they are not one shotting me, which means I have a chance to hold them off till reinforcements arrive. which is more then good enough for me.

TequilaFire

There are very few monster or dungeon sets running around in Kyne, that is an exaggeration.
Yes there are overland and crafted sets being used, but even a new player can buy or get friends to craft a set for them.
Also there are fewer ultimates getting used because those unlock at skill level 50.
This is the primary reason there is less lag and has made Kyne fun to play for the last 5 years.
So much misinformation being spread.

klowdy1

One thing that always helps me get back into PvP after a long break in WoW is AV (now just random epic BG, which includes both 40 man BGs). If there was a large scale BG, of evenly matched (as far as number of players) groups, doing PvP, with a few PvE objectives, it would give newer players the chance to learn how to PvP, by allowing them to break off from the main group (solo, or with a smaller group)when they feel comfortable.

I know people will say cyrodil is that place, but that is more WPvP, than organized, and is very overwhelming to new players. It took me a long time to get used to it, and I'm not new to large scale PvP.

MajBludd

Not misinformation, it's the truth. @TequilaFire the dungeon sets, the making gear every 4-6 levels all purple, overland sets through the regional gear vendor, sitting in serk farming dawnbreaker with no xp, the little spot in auridon you can level werewolf to 10 and never gain xp, getting your vet gear ready and in the bank for when you vet out...I can go on with more that I've seen and know about under 50.