huschdeguddzje wrote: »No race should be pigeon holed into being a "tank race." Imperial performance is very disappointing, especially considering that people PAID for the expansion with the racials as they WERE.
Imperial should be a jack of all trades race, maybe change red diamond passive so it restores your highest resource, that way tanks and both types of dps can benefit from it
Armor + Jewelry Enchants - All Stamina/Magicka(Armor), Weapon/Spell Damage(Jewelry)
Silver_Strider wrote: »
Tanking racials don't matter. If they did Nord wouldn't have been bottom tier in literally everything for years, being completely outstripped by every other race in practically everything.
Let's take your example and flip it for DPS or Healing; Would you perform worse for picking Nord instead of Khajiit. The answer is a big fat YES.
Let me clear things out things out a bit.
Lets see the effect of a good tanking race on average parses with Warhorn.
Nord Ultimate gen passive = 0.5
Ultimate from replacing Resist sets with Bloodspawn = 1.2 Avg
Khajiit Tank ultigen - 3.6 give or take (Taking base regen and Minor Heroism with high uptime into account)
Nord Tank ultigen - 3.6+0.5+1.2 = 5.3
Khajiit Major Force Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/3.6) * 9.5 = 82 secs approx
Nord Major Force Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/5.3) * 9.5 = 120 secs approx
Khajiit Stat Boost Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/3.6) * 30 = 260 secs approx
Nord Stat Boost Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/5.3) * 30 = 381 secs approx
Major Force = 10% boost to DPS approx on average
Stat Boost = 2%-5% boost to DPS approx on average = 3.5%
Let's consider 8 DPS doing 60K DPS without Warhorn.
Total unboosted DPS = 480k
Khajiit Tank DPS Boost = 480000*0.1*82/600+480000*0.035*260/600 = 13840
Nord Tank DPS Boost = 480000*0.1*120/600+480000*0.035*381/600 = 20268
That's 6.5K more DPS that a single Nord can indirectly add to a group. The value may change either lesser or greater, but it will always be there.
Which do you think is more valuable, 1K direct DPS or 6.5K indirect DPS to group along with sustain benefits of higher resource reserve uptime?
Also considering, BiS tanks are DKs, the ultimate gen also converts to higher sustain.
Sure, tanking cannot be objectively compared, but it can always be subjectively compared.
Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »
Tanking racials don't matter. If they did Nord wouldn't have been bottom tier in literally everything for years, being completely outstripped by every other race in practically everything.
Let's take your example and flip it for DPS or Healing; Would you perform worse for picking Nord instead of Khajiit. The answer is a big fat YES.
Let me clear things out things out a bit.
Lets see the effect of a good tanking race on average parses with Warhorn.
Nord Ultimate gen passive = 0.5
Ultimate from replacing Resist sets with Bloodspawn = 1.2 Avg
Khajiit Tank ultigen - 3.6 give or take (Taking base regen and Minor Heroism with high uptime into account)
Nord Tank ultigen - 3.6+0.5+1.2 = 5.3
Khajiit Major Force Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/3.6) * 9.5 = 82 secs approx
Nord Major Force Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/5.3) * 9.5 = 120 secs approx
Khajiit Stat Boost Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/3.6) * 30 = 260 secs approx
Nord Stat Boost Uptime per 10 minutes - 600/(250/5.3) * 30 = 381 secs approx
Major Force = 10% boost to DPS approx on average
Stat Boost = 2%-5% boost to DPS approx on average = 3.5%
Let's consider 8 DPS doing 60K DPS without Warhorn.
Total unboosted DPS = 480k
Khajiit Tank DPS Boost = 480000*0.1*82/600+480000*0.035*260/600 = 13840
Nord Tank DPS Boost = 480000*0.1*120/600+480000*0.035*381/600 = 20268
That's 6.5K more DPS that a single Nord can indirectly add to a group. The value may change either lesser or greater, but it will always be there.
Which do you think is more valuable, 1K direct DPS or 6.5K indirect DPS to group along with sustain benefits of higher resource reserve uptime?
Also considering, BiS tanks are DKs, the ultimate gen also converts to higher sustain.
Sure, tanking cannot be objectively compared, but it can always be subjectively compared.
This is in the absolute best case scenario in which you keep the Ultimate passive on CD, which is NOT realistically possible in some cases since bosses have periods in which they won't attack you, either because they're targetting someone else for a mechanic, they're teleporting around the stage, etc. It's also highly weighted in the Nords favor since you're using taking into consideration Bloodspawn on the Nord and not the Khajiit, despite the fact that you can reach resistance cap on a Khajiit without a resistance set at all, which begs the question of what's the real value of Nords resistance passive in practice?
Malamar1229 wrote: »Stupid question but this was done on PTS, not live, right?
alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »going by these test having no raical passives and having them is 2-3k dps so what is the point in having a race
MLGProPlayer wrote: »alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »going by these test having no raical passives and having them is 2-3k dps so what is the point in having a race
2-3k DPS is a lot.
Imperials is a bit like Argonians, tanky but can do damage and lack the Argonian role as healers.No love for Imperials eh ?
Note that players starting the game get no warning that they have an trash build.alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »going by these test having no raical passives and having them is 2-3k dps so what is the point in having a race
2-3k DPS is a lot.
my point is no racial passives should not be that close, having none should be a big difference, all races could/ should be close but having none should be a bigger difference
Note that players starting the game get no warning that they have an trash build.alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »going by these test having no raical passives and having them is 2-3k dps so what is the point in having a race
2-3k DPS is a lot.
my point is no racial passives should not be that close, having none should be a big difference, all races could/ should be close but having none should be a bigger difference
The racial description has no warnings, its pretty much like the one in Skyrim
You want to play an elf and Bosmer is cutest and you want to focus being an healer, you almost selected Altmer but ended on Bosmer
Add an community who take the racials way out of proportions. its maximum 10% dps today.
https://www.deviantart.com/isriana/art/TESO-Respect-Your-Healers-696152788
This exist for an reason.
Obliviously stuff like that will impact the bottom line over time.
Well its pretty easy to solve.
LightMaster7 wrote: »Look man these sets of tests only show the optimized for races that play their OPTIMIZED class, if they received a boost for a specific passive in either stamina or magicka.
For example, comparing Redguard StamSorc but not a Redguard MagSorc. There will be a BIG difference in dps between a StamSorc vs a MagSorc compared to other races.
So these so called tests are only showing for races playing classes they are being optimized for.
LightMaster7 wrote: »Look man these sets of tests only show the optimized for races that play their OPTIMIZED class, if they received a boost for a specific passive in either stamina or magicka.
For example, comparing Redguard StamSorc but not a Redguard MagSorc. There will be a BIG difference in dps between a StamSorc vs a MagSorc compared to other races.
So these so called tests are only showing for races playing classes they are being optimized for.
Awesome information @susmitds
A little sad to see three races that are basically good at nothing, and then you have dunmer which are viable as pretty much everything. I don't feel like these race changes did what ZOS was claiming. It didn't really upset the meta, nor did it make it so all the races were more viable.
If anything it just breaks down like this, at least according to this data.
Stamina Character? Redguard, Orc, Bosmer
Magicka Character? Breton, Altmer
Can do it all? Khajit, Dunmer
Can't do it? Imperial, Argonian, Nord
If this hold remotely true, ZOS basically just killed off three races.
Very curious how you managed to get Dwemer racial passivesDo NOT touch my Dwemer passives or I am leaving the game with a very wordy goodbye topic in 'General Discussion'.