Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

gp1680

Seems like ZOS just rearranging deck chairs in order to sell race change tokens, tbh. It astounds me how these devs think it necessary to spend so much time on this racial crap while the performance of parts of their game stinks to high heaven and they do nothing.

John_Falstaff

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.

It's a nerf to StamPlars considering the "Direct Damage" does not apply...and you get no cost reduction to class abilities...Even though Jabs is still broken.

But hey! Let's promote using Weapon Skill lines over Class Skill Lines even more since the Class Skills cannot get balanced correctly...

Caltrops, if memory serves, count as direct damage. Every stamina uses Caltrops, and they're always on the ground, so Adrenaline Rush got a buff actually - it'll be ticking like Swiss clock as long as Caltrops are down.

Virosh

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

Please rethink imperial before release, thank you!

This guy gets it!!! xD

skeevynix

gp1680 wrote: »

Seems like ZOS just rearranging deck chairs in order to sell race change tokens, tbh. It astounds me how these devs think it necessary to spend so much time on this racial crap while the performance of parts of their game stinks to high heaven and they do nothing.

No, I don't buy this. In MY opinion we have a dedicated team of devs who truly want to make the game work as intended.

It seems this is the first of the things being looked at in terms of bringing the game up to where they would wish it to be.

Absolutely there are issues in the game. ZOS have actually acknowledged issues & appear to be listening to the player base, which I am all for. Some people are unhappy with the changes, but I think we all know they are necessary to some degree.
Change is always hard & you will never please everybody.

To me, its a positive start to the year & I remain hopeful these "issues" are being worked on...

Schattenfluegel

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Caltrops, if memory serves, count as direct damage. Every stamina uses Caltrops, and they're always on the ground, so Adrenaline Rush got a buff actually - it'll be ticking like Swiss clock as long as Caltrops are down.

Are you sure about that?

Nolic1

So Dunmer is not being made a race that can really build hybrid but the race its self can be ether magicka or stamina dps and with these changes it make them good at ether.

Tholian1

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

Please rethink imperial before release, thank you!

It’s like they regret making Imperials a playable race. “Here’s some health, go tank.”

gp1680

skeevynix wrote: »

gp1680 wrote: »

Seems like ZOS just rearranging deck chairs in order to sell race change tokens, tbh. It astounds me how these devs think it necessary to spend so much time on this racial crap while the performance of parts of their game stinks to high heaven and they do nothing.

No, I don't buy this. In MY opinion we have a dedicated team of devs who truly want to make the game work as intended.

It seems this is the first of the things being looked at in terms of bringing the game up to where they would wish it to be.

Absolutely there are issues in the game. ZOS have actually acknowledged issues & appear to be listening to the player base, which I am all for. Some people are unhappy with the changes, but I think we all know they are necessary to some degree.
Change is always hard & you will never please everybody.

To me, its a positive start to the year & I remain hopeful these "issues" are being worked on...

In my opinion, you’re just drinking the kool-aid. Changes like this were unnecessary and really serve the purpose to make people re-roll their toons. There is always going to be bis builds, regardless. Nerfing and buffing over the years has not gotten them any closer to their goal of “balance”. They should focus at least one patch on performance this year and then go back to the money grab...in MY opinion.

Cinbri

1. Imperials - even tho their Red Diamond seems wont have ICD and will work per target not per damage skill activated, it still look as lucklaster. I suggest to change their bash reduce cost to Break Free reduce cost, in this case it will be versatile effect for both mana/stamina builds, unlike Bash that benefit only stamina builds; and 5% cc break is stronger effect than bash.
Or same as altmers where strong effect have special condition - make instead of 5% reduce bash cost to grant 5% reduce damage in block(like comparison of Footman); will work for both mana/stamina and have condition of proc only in block.

2. Dunmers - it is complicated.
A. Ashlander passive - it suppose to reduce damage from environmental lava but in pvp zones like cyro near Chorrol or battlegrounds zone like Mor Khazgur it doesn't count as environmental lava damage and not being reduce damage; its a bit weird that anti-lava passive not work vs lava everytime. How about change it from lava protection to just lower percentage of environmental damage reduction. Lore-wise being ashlander doesn't mean only lava protection, it is resistance to harsh environment which is not only lava.
B. Ruination passive - is great change. People keep talking that magdk got nerfed but beside dk there is/will 5 classes for which this passive not work. It is very positive that dunmers no longer pigeonholed to be only manadks and my dunmer-templar will literally have one more passive that open lot of diversity possibilities for building.
C. Dunmers as hybrid race - its interesting conception. But problem is that hybrids is most underdeveloped thing in game and that only place where it can potentionally shine better than others is pvp (don't mind it ). The way how hybrids can compete with more efficient max resource stacking builds/races - is sheer amount of splitted stats as some of such splitted stats have no benefit for builds a mana/stamina build:
Such situation was showed by set Armor of Trainee - when it was granting 2k of all resources - it was bis set, but when it droped to 1250 - no one use it anymore as amount of splitted stats not validate loosing of damage potential. And dunmers with overall stats now have 1250m/1250s/600hp = when it goes to compare bonus as Sets stats - it not even compete with Trainee set. Or other hybridish set - Shacklebreaker set. It's loss of hp boost is repaid as boosted max mana and stamina and it made it very favourable set coz it focused only on 2 splitted stas, that allow to compete with max stat sets by its diversity.
So, the possibilities to make dunmers more viable I can suggest several ways:
1. Boost splitted stats to at least Set stat comparison of weakest hybrid set - Trainee, I.e. hp from 600 to 1250. However note that 1250 of full hybrid stat is very weak.
2. Or same as Shacklebreaker - remove 600hp and flame resistance boost from Flame Resist while boost Dynamic passive of max mana/stam further. It wont contradict to description zos made in dev comment as dunmers are literally "harsh elves" not "humans", they "Intelligent and quick" but not "hardy" so their difference from other "sturdy" races like imperials or nords is that they evolved their elven agaility and intellect. Have small boost to only mana build is also lore-wise as dunmers ancestors are altmers.
2. given that Destructive Ancestry lost highest damage boost and now comparable to altmers Elemental Talent - it could get either small boost to its stat, smth like 3% spell and weapon crit - it one of those hybrid stats that benefit only 1 type of buils, same as current Ruination. Or keep as it is so disparity in two races' passive (old and new Ruination vs Elem. Talent) can be repaid by boosted splitted stats of dunmers to keep overall bonuses of races in near effectiveness.

John_Falstaff

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Caltrops, if memory serves, count as direct damage. Every stamina uses Caltrops, and they're always on the ground, so Adrenaline Rush got a buff actually - it'll be ticking like Swiss clock as long as Caltrops are down.

Are you sure about that?

Nope - didn't verify myself, it's just mentioned as such in a bunch of older posts around the forums. So at the very least it used to, but I'll test when I'll get around to.

Jaraal

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

As a closing note, we want to reiterate that all players will have a refund of all of their character’s racial passives if they’ve spent any, so remember to reallocate any points into these on your characters once the changes go live.

Is this going to be like the Devour skill point refund, where you have to withdraw 100,000 gold from the bank just to get the dialogue, and then spend 20 minutes redoing all your points? I still haven't got that one back, by the way.

Not looking forward to it.

killmove

I propose this kind of balance:

Argonian
Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed → No changes
Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka and Stamina by 1000. Restore 4200 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1500 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 7%.

Dark Elf
Increases Experience gain in Dual Wield Skill Line by 15%, reduces damage taken from Lava by 50% → No changes
Dynamic: 6% Max Stamina and Magicka → Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1500.
Resist Flame: 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
Destructive Ancestry: 7% Flame damage and 2% Frost/Shock Damage → Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 300.

Imperial
Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → No changes
Tough: 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 2000.
Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to restore 450 Stamina and Magicka. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

Redguard
Increases One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on food buffs → No changes
Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 5%.
Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
Adrenaline Rush: When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 750 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Lord_Eomer

jlmurra2 wrote: »

I feel these changes are mostly positive. I am looking forward to playing as a Nord again, and I like the increased versatility added to the races.

There are few issues however, Nords should not have more magicka resistance than a Breton, that seems like a lore contradiction. Khajiit should retain thier increased damage from stealth, and Dunmer should be able to produce the most damage with fire magicka.

There is no diversity if dunmer keep their dire damage buff,

It becomes race for Magcika DK only

Fire damage buff need to go.

Lord_Eomer

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Destructive Ancestry: 7% Flame damage and 2% Frost/Shock Damage → Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

No. Leave Dunmer their flame damage bonus. Keep Destructive Ancestry as it is and add a Stam buff with weapon damage. That way Stam builds get a buff without taking away the unique flame affinity from the race or ruining Mag builds.

You want dumner just to be race built for magicka dk, unfair advantage. Fire damage buff need to go.

Schattenfluegel

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Caltrops, if memory serves, count as direct damage. Every stamina uses Caltrops, and they're always on the ground, so Adrenaline Rush got a buff actually - it'll be ticking like Swiss clock as long as Caltrops are down.

Are you sure about that?

Nope - didn't verify myself, it's just mentioned as such in a bunch of older posts around the forums. So at the very least it used to, but I'll test when I'll get around to.

Caldrops and Endless Hail are Dot Dmg (it starts as a dot in the tooltip)...Poison Injection and Rending Slashes have an Direct Dmg Initial Hit and after that, they are doting.

silver1surfer69

I like the changes in all.
But (why must there always be a but?^^):

- tbh redguard is op. why do u not have the ability to see this? now you have the delta again. Adrenalin rush is like 380 stam reg. woodelf which was the stam reg master only gets 258!?

- 6% max stat now goes to +2000 for most classes. for orc its just 500??

JobooAGS

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I like the changes in all.
But (why must there always be a but?^^): tbh redguard is op. why do u not have the ability to see this? now you have a delta again. Adrenalin rush is like 380 stam reg. woodelf which was the stam reg master only gets 258!?
6% max stat now goes to +2000 for most classes. for orc its just 500??

see the above posts as to why the 258 regen is actually much more...

Schattenfluegel

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I like the changes in all.
But (why must there always be a but?^^): tbh redguard is op. why do u not have the ability to see this? now you have a delta again. Adrenalin rush is like 380 stam reg. woodelf which was the stam reg master only gets 258!?
6% max stat now goes to +2000 for most classes. for orc its just 500??

He lost his 9% Stamregpassiva...thats about 162 all 2 seconds. Redguard got a nerf.

Buddy_the_Guy

I'm okay with ZOS giving the cat-people a 5m reduced detection radius, since they are sneaky cats, but, completely removing it from the hunter elf-people just doesn't make any sense. I mean, "Hunters never use camouflage to sneak up on, or ambush, prey.", said nobody...ever. Bosmers should retain their 3m reduced detection radius, in place of the increase in stealth detection.

Along the same lines, I never really understood ZOS's decision to give the cat-people, with claws for fingernails, a pickpocket bonus and the petite elf-people a reduction to fall damage. If one applies thinking to this, the cat-people should get the fall damage reduction and the elf-people should get the pickpocket bonus. I guess that's my bad for trying to apply logic and reason in this day and age.

Cundu_Ertur

Buddy_the_Guy wrote: »

I'm okay with ZOS giving the cat-people a 5m reduced detection radius, since they are sneaky cats, but, completely removing it from the hunter elf-people just doesn't make any sense. I mean, "Hunters never use camouflage to sneak up on, or ambush, prey.", said nobody...ever. Bosmers should retain their 3m reduced detection radius, in place of the increase in stealth detection.

Along the same lines, I never really understood ZOS's decision to give the cat-people, with claws for fingernails, a pickpocket bonus and the petite elf-people a reduction to fall damage. If one applies thinking to this, the cat-people should get the fall damage reduction and the elf-people should get the pickpocket bonus. I guess that's my bad for trying to apply logic and reason in this day and age.

You are a bad person for thinking bad thoughts. (<=this is sarcasm)

Twohothardware

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I like the changes in all.
But (why must there always be a but?^^): tbh redguard is op. why do u not have the ability to see this? now you have a delta again. Adrenalin rush is like 380 stam reg. woodelf which was the stam reg master only gets 258!?
6% max stat now goes to +2000 for most classes. for orc its just 500??

He lost his 9% Stamregpassiva...thats about 162 all 2 seconds. Redguard got a nerf.

Redguard's Adrenaline is getting an extra 158 Stam every 5 seconds on top of 8% cost reduction, they got a buff. Cost Reduction will make more of a difference in PvE builds especially where you run very low Recovery builds.

Gnortranermara

Pretty good, overall.

Breton looks like it needs a bit more work to bring it up to par with High Elf.

Twohothardware

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Destructive Ancestry: 7% Flame damage and 2% Frost/Shock Damage → Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

No. Leave Dunmer their flame damage bonus. Keep Destructive Ancestry as it is and add a Stam buff with weapon damage. That way Stam builds get a buff without taking away the unique flame affinity from the race or ruining Mag builds.

You want dumner just to be race built for magicka dk, unfair advantage. Fire damage buff need to go.

Agreed. It was mandatory to run Dunmer if you wanted to play DK just because of the Fire damage and extra Stamina.

I'm fine with Dunmer getting a small buff if they went too far but no race should be the clear #1 at any class.

StarOfElyon

I think people need to wait and see what ZOS does after the tests.

Iarao

and those of us who are eso plus should get to change ALL of our toons and names if we wish. maybe make it a min time of eso plus, like 1yr. and if new plus members pay for 1yr, they

Iarao

gp1680 wrote: »

Seems like ZOS just rearranging deck chairs in order to sell race change tokens, tbh. It astounds me how these devs think it necessary to spend so much time on this racial crap while the performance of parts of their game stinks to high heaven and they do nothing.

totally agree. total cash grab here.

Iarao

gp1680 wrote: »

skeevynix wrote: »

gp1680 wrote: »

Seems like ZOS just rearranging deck chairs in order to sell race change tokens, tbh. It astounds me how these devs think it necessary to spend so much time on this racial crap while the performance of parts of their game stinks to high heaven and they do nothing.

No, I don't buy this. In MY opinion we have a dedicated team of devs who truly want to make the game work as intended.

It seems this is the first of the things being looked at in terms of bringing the game up to where they would wish it to be.

Absolutely there are issues in the game. ZOS have actually acknowledged issues & appear to be listening to the player base, which I am all for. Some people are unhappy with the changes, but I think we all know they are necessary to some degree.
Change is always hard & you will never please everybody.

To me, its a positive start to the year & I remain hopeful these "issues" are being worked on...

In my opinion, you’re just drinking the kool-aid. Changes like this were unnecessary and really serve the purpose to make people re-roll their toons. There is always going to be bis builds, regardless. Nerfing and buffing over the years has not gotten them any closer to their goal of “balance”. They should focus at least one patch on performance this year and then go back to the money grab...in MY opinion.

nerfing and buffing over the yrs made some races unplayable: imperial and nord used to be top tanks. i had to give up my bosmer nb because they nerfed it into the ground. argonian used to be a joke and now EVERYONE wants a lizard. why? cuz op. ditto for when warden dropped. dont tell me they couldnt theorycraft a bit closer to racial equality from the start. if not, then they started with a pisspoor team.

Twohothardware

Iarao wrote: »

gp1680 wrote: »

Seems like ZOS just rearranging deck chairs in order to sell race change tokens, tbh. It astounds me how these devs think it necessary to spend so much time on this racial crap while the performance of parts of their game stinks to high heaven and they do nothing.

totally agree. total cash grab here.

A number of us have had long threads going nearly every PTS cycle for over a year and a half asking ZOS for Race balancing because of how pigeon holed the Race meta had become.

Redguard and Argonian advantages weren't just a few hundred points difference in DPS. It was the difference in being able to completely sustain top DPS rotations without any heavy attacks on Redguard vs struggling on most other Stam races and on Argonian being able to sustain without any effort as a tank or in PvP being able to instantly recover from near death with huge bursts of resources and healing making any class instantly easier to compete on. Argonian became even worse when they introduced the Infused Jewelry with potion cooldown glyphs in Summerset.

Half of the player base didn't start switching this past year to what had been previously considered the ugliest race in the game just because.

Sibenice

Tonturri wrote: »

Obviously there should - and likely will - be some fine tuning. But c'mon. People whine 'n complain that ZOS nerfs/buffs with a sledgehammer. Now they get this - nerfing/buffing not with a sledge hammer - and...just, goodness.

I'm curious as to further elaboration on your 'too disruptive' comment. To what? How?

For me, as a pet sorc main, I think it's going to be a pretty significant nerf. Perhaps even sledgehammer like.

I'm currently sitting at 57,000/50,000 magicka on my altmer sorc. That 2000 we're getting is half to less than half of the magicka I'm getting from the 10% buff. Pet sorc is already behind non-pet. I may just have to give it up after this and go for the more basic sorc build.

OolongSnakeTea

I keep refreshing the top of the thread hoping that these changes for dunmer would be like 'APRIL FOOLS' or something, because say it isn't SOOOO!