Is Magblade Even a Class anymore?

CatchMeTrolling · January 2019

NyassaV wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Only because you cannot build it does not mean I cannot have it

MagDK has more self healing than a Magblade. Stamplar now has better sustain than a magblade. All of magblade's damage is refelctable. Bar space is worse than before because ZOS screwed healing ward. Almost forced to use blackrose resto. Best burst heal is blessing of protection and that actually has a chance to miss you sometimes as well as having a delay between cast and when it hits your character.

Magblade has issues but sustain isn’t one of them, destro/resto magblade still has the best sustain in the game.

The issues are mainly related to snares, the lack of a purge and shields. Sure you “can’t” be a jack of all trades but you shouldn’t be able to do that. Plus, when cloak/shade is working magblade becomes pretty survivable. So in a sense they still have all 3.

No, sorry. stamplar is better. i switched to stamplar with murkmire, stamplar seriously has better sustain than magblade.

How does stamplar have better sustain? I’d seriously like to see a valid reason. I play both classes. Magblade is the only class I rarely run out of resources with in no cp content and that’s without worrying about using pots to do so. Most stamplars run about 2k regen, while magblade gets away with 1400-1600 base regen. Include siphoning and elemental drain and it’s not even a contest.

my stamplar runs 1300 stam regen and don't often run out of stam or magicka for that matter. i dunno, just the changes to rune on top of how quick heavy attacks are with melee weapons. i just find it easier to sustain on stamplar. not that it's particularly hard, but easier none the less.

Stamplar is easier to play, maybe that’s where the issue is. Magblade requires the highest effort to play at a high level in my opinion. Their sustain for example is intertwined with their ability to be aggressive and stay aggressive.

yes that's how magblade is supposed to play. however, that's kinda the problem isn't it?. our heals and defenses got gutted making it harder to remain on the offensive for extended periods.

Depends on how you play. Solo it becomes an issue outnumbered but in group play it’s much easier to maintain.

Almost anything is easy to maintain in group play so that argument doesn't pan out too well.

Shouldn’t use solo play or duels as a basis for anything in this game regarding to classes. Performance will never be consistent. That’ll just create more issues trying to balance around a solo player.

Volckodav · January 2019

CLOAK!!!!
healing ward, cloak and reset to burst again, no worries, especially in BG

Metemsycosis · January 2019

I don't run lightning staff but you could. Area denial is a strong suit of that staff and aoe dots proc skoria and can't be reflected. That was my point. Just because you don't know how to do the damage doesn't mean I don't.

And lots of times I dont stack one kind of damage but instead find more ways of damaging so I don't run into problems like u seem to.

CompM4s · January 2019

steven22 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

I Play Nb , But what is so unfair and OP at Cloak nowadays ?

The main complaint about cloak is how easy it is for nb’s to reset the fight completly.

Baconlad · January 2019

If your not finding ur self tanky enough, damaging enough, or sustaining enough. I would say you're not using the tools nightblade has properly.

It's been my experience that magblades are able to forgo defensive gearing and build almost for glass canon, with a few obvious choices of regeneration through food or mundus.

Your shade, cloak, roots and shields should be enough to keep you alive whilst your massive burst potential should kill most enemies before they can fully react. TBH even a tanky player should have a hard time with burst, cloak, burst, cloak.

The most FRUSTRATING players I have faced are the extremely hard hitting magblades with roots, cloaks, and shields that I as a seasoned magplar can barely touch. I'll take heavy armor stam tons of any other class. No one gives me as much trouble as nightblade...be that elusive ***. Night blades are meant for it.

Sorcs have been hit harder I think by this patch, at least from their burst department. Their escape options are weak. They have to build in defense this patch. Even though there shields are better this patch when built for it, their damage is really low comparatively to magblade.

mav1234 · January 2019

Most of my frustration comes from BGs... Where my lack of snare immunity means melee is virtually impossible to pull off against anything organized and where I feel relatively weak at ranged compared to others.

Metemsycosis · January 2019

Run 2h or vampire.

thedude33 · January 2019

As always, it's the player, not the class. I have bumped into a few amazing magblades the last couple of days. One was a pure ganker that was cleaning up killing people trying to take a keep. Close in fighting. The other was ranged, who was both tanky and had decent damage. Defended a tower vs 4 people.

Got to hand it to good players

mav1234 · January 2019

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Run 2h or vampire.

I've never been a fan of mistform on a class so reliant on HoT healing, and my comment was more about offensive movement against decent groups than it was about escaping and re-positioning.

I used to run 2h few patches back (frontbar though) and if we had better class heals I might run it backbar, but given the strength of LA weave, I don't like running 2h frontbar anymore. If I really restructure my build I could probably run it backbar, and I might try that... I have thought about dropping resto staff and running dark cloak too, slotting a gap closer and trying for something more resembling a brawler with protective jewelry (and/or a defensive set?), and perhaps I will go that route still.

The problems I have with melee magblade might be more or less resolved if snares were overhauled anyway.

steven22 · January 2019

Baconlad wrote: »

If your not finding ur self tanky enough, damaging enough, or sustaining enough. I would say you're not using the tools nightblade has properly.

It's been my experience that magblades are able to forgo defensive gearing and build almost for glass canon, with a few obvious choices of regeneration through food or mundus.

Your shade, cloak, roots and shields should be enough to keep you alive whilst your massive burst potential should kill most enemies before they can fully react. TBH even a tanky player should have a hard time with burst, cloak, burst, cloak.

The most FRUSTRATING players I have faced are the extremely hard hitting magblades with roots, cloaks, and shields that I as a seasoned magplar can barely touch. I'll take heavy armor stam tons of any other class. No one gives me as much trouble as nightblade...be that elusive ***. Night blades are meant for it.

Sorcs have been hit harder I think by this patch, at least from their burst department. Their escape options are weak. They have to build in defense this patch. Even though there shields are better this patch when built for it, their damage is really low comparatively to magblade.

Please dont compare Stamina and Magicka NB. Magicka Nb cant have high burst Damage and tankyness and good survival. And the Shields shouldnt be a problem right ?

SubversusReformed · January 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

Erm, not sure if you played in 2018 at all when they dominated PvE and PvP...

The crap sorc comment made me lol, as reach meta favoured MagBlade pretty strongly. Honnestly Blades haven't had much to complain about for a good while.

BUT NB vs Sorc pride battle aside i do hate it when a class loses it's identity or purpose. Sorcs have right now, gone are the hard hitting glass cannons of the past. Now we are all tanky and hit like a wet lettuce if they haven't mitigated half the burst. It's weir when they move classes away from what feels natural to them.

They didn't 'dominate in pvp' in a long time. The only reason it even shined was because of the CP power creep, and that could be seen very clearly in noCP where magblade was average at best; and of course, ignoring duels because duels have been irrelevant since like 2016.

The only actual pvp 'buff' magblades got since morrowind was the impale cost increase. We had strife nerfed more times than I can remember, soul harvest made dodgeable, merciless turned into a braindead ability (and killed completely, ever since they first reduced the travel time it made it absurdly easy to dodge).

But yeah, they were OP in pve, because of the power creep. Way to go zos, ruin a class because you can't understand what power creep does to pve people. They don't even care that magblade's completely ***, because all they care about is DPS and that means hopping on the next meta class. PVE is the bane of this game

Caleb_Kadesh · January 2019

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

- concealed weapons needs to be a Magicka morph ONLY! not have these Stam blades running around with 3 swift accessories and concealed wpns and being insanely fast. Was saying this long before we got jewelry crafting.

Concealed weapons is a magicka morph. The stamina morph does not provide a speed bonus.

What I mean by this is that only mNB can use this. I know it's a Magicka morph

I think you wanted to say that only MagBlades SHOULD be able to use this. I use it on my StamBlade for the above advantages.

Derra · January 2019

Lucky28 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

If you're playing stamblade with snare immunity, then yeah Cloak is OP. id you're playing magicka with no snare immunity then no not really. snare immunity is what makes cloak op, it's not the skill itself.

depends on the opponent having passive aoe to decloak.

even without snare immunity cloak is pretty op against any singletarget oriented build in a 1v1 situation when you´re looking at survivability.

Datthaw · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

If you're playing stamblade with snare immunity, then yeah Cloak is OP. id you're playing magicka with no snare immunity then no not really. snare immunity is what makes cloak op, it's not the skill itself.

depends on the opponent having passive aoe to decloak.

even without snare immunity cloak is pretty op against any singletarget oriented build in a 1v1 situation when you´re looking at survivability.

I really, really ,really disagree. Cloak imo is ONLY good with snare removal. Anyone who is a decent player can lock down a snared magnb and keep them out of cloak. And you only have 1 shot and pulling of a shade to disengage. Problem is if you shade and they gapclose....rip

Datthaw · January 2019

And tbh what class is only single target and has trouble with bringing nb's out of stealth? Nightblades

steven22 · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

If you're playing stamblade with snare immunity, then yeah Cloak is OP. id you're playing magicka with no snare immunity then no not really. snare immunity is what makes cloak op, it's not the skill itself.

depends on the opponent having passive aoe to decloak.

even without snare immunity cloak is pretty op against any singletarget oriented build in a 1v1 situation when you´re looking at survivability.

Nowadays there are no possibilities to put a nightblade out of cloak, right? Cloak needs a rework yes , but why should it be op ?

ak_pvp · January 2019

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Here are my issues with magblades.

- cloak is garbage. Bring back our purge cloak. Unless you have around 30k hp than the healing one is pretty damn good
- this doesn't count towards mnb but for anyone that runs vamp. That 25% extra flame dmg is brutal. So a mDK yeah most I leave alone.

- soul harvest vs incap. Both have defile but incap has the stun while harvest gets ult. At least give harvest something similar.
- focus vs resolve. Both get minor berserk and are proc'd off of 5 LA's but why not give resolve a mag return?
- hemorrhage passive needs to add spell crit in there not just wpn crit.
- concealed weapons needs to be a Magicka morph ONLY! not have these Stam blades running around with 3 swift accessories and concealed wpns and being insanely fast. Was saying this long before we got jewelry crafting.
- cloak. You'll all think I'm crazy for this but bring back the pruge cloak!
- hysteria vs terror. Bring hysteria to 4 or 5. Can leave terror alone
- shade. Just fix shade. Still buggy as hell
- strikes morphs. Revert back to old morphs

I could sit here and nag more to benefit mNB but knowing zos track record they'd probably nerf them instead and buff the other classes.

You want the ability that already prevents all single target attacks, force misses all non on target precast single target attacks, (aka everything but curse/potl) surpresses all dots for the duration AND makes you invisible to purge you. *** hell lmao, might as well major expedition, protection and have it give you a back rub.

All the counters are heavy in the NBs favor. As they require more of an investment for the user. Dropping their attacks in favor of a reveal attempt. Losing a ability, enchant or pot slot for a low time reveal. After all that having to find the person and target them with it. All whilst the NB gets away near scott free to regen and heal, with a benefit when switching to offense.

It does far more than wings or shimmering or ward yet it is untouched for far far too long. If they make dots go through it then it'll force the bad blades to actually have to avoid attacks (the point of being sneaky) rather than one button wonder it. Maybe increase its duration so when you are actually in it its better,

ZOS_Mika · January 2019

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please keep the discussion civil and free of personal attacks/insults. Thank you for your understanding.

dagonbeer · January 2019

Magblades just need healing ward back to the way it was, and merciless travel time removed and they'll be in a good place again. It would be nice if they swap incap to magicka the way they balanced the templar ults, though I doubt it'll happen.

moosegod · January 2019

Yup magblade has changed. I made mine into a healer now with AoE control (fear, path, blockade). Basically support/utility now. Gone is the speedy assassin build using pre-nerf swift, shadow image, and strife. That being said, I'm enjoying the "bloodmage" style. Only time I can justify running cheese like earthgore lmao.

Datthaw · January 2019

ak_pvp wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Here are my issues with magblades.

- cloak is garbage. Bring back our purge cloak. Unless you have around 30k hp than the healing one is pretty damn good
- this doesn't count towards mnb but for anyone that runs vamp. That 25% extra flame dmg is brutal. So a mDK yeah most I leave alone.

- soul harvest vs incap. Both have defile but incap has the stun while harvest gets ult. At least give harvest something similar.
- focus vs resolve. Both get minor berserk and are proc'd off of 5 LA's but why not give resolve a mag return?
- hemorrhage passive needs to add spell crit in there not just wpn crit.
- concealed weapons needs to be a Magicka morph ONLY! not have these Stam blades running around with 3 swift accessories and concealed wpns and being insanely fast. Was saying this long before we got jewelry crafting.
- cloak. You'll all think I'm crazy for this but bring back the pruge cloak!
- hysteria vs terror. Bring hysteria to 4 or 5. Can leave terror alone
- shade. Just fix shade. Still buggy as hell
- strikes morphs. Revert back to old morphs

I could sit here and nag more to benefit mNB but knowing zos track record they'd probably nerf them instead and buff the other classes.

You want the ability that already prevents all single target attacks, force misses all non on target precast single target attacks, (aka everything but curse/potl) surpresses all dots for the duration AND makes you invisible to purge you. *** hell lmao, might as well major expedition, protection and have it give you a back rub.

So I'm not saying you're wrong, it does do all those things. But you glorify it beyond reality. Say you're in a 1vx. It is not good to spam cloak very much it cost alot of mag. Say your being revealed in the 1vX you can't exactly purge the dot unless you're actually invisible so that doesn't always count. You start spamming cloak to dodge those javs and snipes coming in but before you know it you dodge 4 attacks and have 1/4 mag. That cloak spam only worked as a bandaid because your still dead.

Please dont glorify cloak beyond reality

NightAngel690 · January 2019

I’m having fun on a snb magblade. Mind it it kind of feels like a poor mans magdk but I still like it. My sustain is crap though.

Ragnaroek93 · January 2019

ak_pvp wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Here are my issues with magblades.

- cloak is garbage. Bring back our purge cloak. Unless you have around 30k hp than the healing one is pretty damn good
- this doesn't count towards mnb but for anyone that runs vamp. That 25% extra flame dmg is brutal. So a mDK yeah most I leave alone.

- soul harvest vs incap. Both have defile but incap has the stun while harvest gets ult. At least give harvest something similar.
- focus vs resolve. Both get minor berserk and are proc'd off of 5 LA's but why not give resolve a mag return?
- hemorrhage passive needs to add spell crit in there not just wpn crit.
- concealed weapons needs to be a Magicka morph ONLY! not have these Stam blades running around with 3 swift accessories and concealed wpns and being insanely fast. Was saying this long before we got jewelry crafting.
- cloak. You'll all think I'm crazy for this but bring back the pruge cloak!
- hysteria vs terror. Bring hysteria to 4 or 5. Can leave terror alone
- shade. Just fix shade. Still buggy as hell
- strikes morphs. Revert back to old morphs

I could sit here and nag more to benefit mNB but knowing zos track record they'd probably nerf them instead and buff the other classes.

You want the ability that already prevents all single target attacks, force misses all non on target precast single target attacks, (aka everything but curse/potl) surpresses all dots for the duration AND makes you invisible to purge you. *** hell lmao, might as well major expedition, protection and have it give you a back rub.

All the counters are heavy in the NBs favor. As they require more of an investment for the user. Dropping their attacks in favor of a reveal attempt. Losing a ability, enchant or pot slot for a low time reveal. After all that having to find the person and target them with it. All whilst the NB gets away near scott free to regen and heal, with a benefit when switching to offense.

It does far more than wings or shimmering or ward yet it is untouched for far far too long. If they make dots go through it then it'll force the bad blades to actually have to avoid attacks (the point of being sneaky) rather than one button wonder it. Maybe increase its duration so when you are actually in it its better,

Would make it impossible to fight against a bleed build as Nb, which is supposed to be a tank/block counter while they would still get countered by AoE (which is fine since it's their counter).

KhajiitFelix · January 2019

Wait what

ak_pvp · January 2019

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Here are my issues with magblades.

- cloak is garbage. Bring back our purge cloak. Unless you have around 30k hp than the healing one is pretty damn good
- this doesn't count towards mnb but for anyone that runs vamp. That 25% extra flame dmg is brutal. So a mDK yeah most I leave alone.

- soul harvest vs incap. Both have defile but incap has the stun while harvest gets ult. At least give harvest something similar.
- focus vs resolve. Both get minor berserk and are proc'd off of 5 LA's but why not give resolve a mag return?
- hemorrhage passive needs to add spell crit in there not just wpn crit.
- concealed weapons needs to be a Magicka morph ONLY! not have these Stam blades running around with 3 swift accessories and concealed wpns and being insanely fast. Was saying this long before we got jewelry crafting.
- cloak. You'll all think I'm crazy for this but bring back the pruge cloak!
- hysteria vs terror. Bring hysteria to 4 or 5. Can leave terror alone
- shade. Just fix shade. Still buggy as hell
- strikes morphs. Revert back to old morphs

I could sit here and nag more to benefit mNB but knowing zos track record they'd probably nerf them instead and buff the other classes.

You want the ability that already prevents all single target attacks, force misses all non on target precast single target attacks, (aka everything but curse/potl) surpresses all dots for the duration AND makes you invisible to purge you. *** hell lmao, might as well major expedition, protection and have it give you a back rub.

All the counters are heavy in the NBs favor. As they require more of an investment for the user. Dropping their attacks in favor of a reveal attempt. Losing a ability, enchant or pot slot for a low time reveal. After all that having to find the person and target them with it. All whilst the NB gets away near scott free to regen and heal, with a benefit when switching to offense.

It does far more than wings or shimmering or ward yet it is untouched for far far too long. If they make dots go through it then it'll force the bad blades to actually have to avoid attacks (the point of being sneaky) rather than one button wonder it. Maybe increase its duration so when you are actually in it its better,

Would make it impossible to fight against a bleed build as Nb, which is supposed to be a tank/block counter while they would still get countered by AoE (which is fine since it's their counter).

Bleeds are OP full stop. Its impossible to fight against on most builds and a hard counter to many of them. They need to be changed full stop, instead of just giving a class immunity to them. A tank/block counter is dots, ground abiltites and the majority of AoEs as they are not blockable, they can resist this damage, but they can't stop it as such is a soft counter, defiles (cause tanky builds have high healing nowadays) Bleeds are unnecessary and a hard counter cause they double up through block and resists.

GeneralSezme · January 2019

If you are a bomber, like me, then yes. That's about it though.

Derra · January 2019

Datthaw wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

If you're playing stamblade with snare immunity, then yeah Cloak is OP. id you're playing magicka with no snare immunity then no not really. snare immunity is what makes cloak op, it's not the skill itself.

depends on the opponent having passive aoe to decloak.

even without snare immunity cloak is pretty op against any singletarget oriented build in a 1v1 situation when you´re looking at survivability.

I really, really ,really disagree. Cloak imo is ONLY good with snare removal. Anyone who is a decent player can lock down a snared magnb and keep them out of cloak. And you only have 1 shot and pulling of a shade to disengage. Problem is if you shade and they gapclose....rip

Which means they have a gapcloser, a snare and an aoe to decloak the nb?

Also the NB can snare opponents aswell. I´m pretty sure you won´t ever kill a magblade 1v1 without passive aoe to decloak.

steven22 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

If you're playing stamblade with snare immunity, then yeah Cloak is OP. id you're playing magicka with no snare immunity then no not really. snare immunity is what makes cloak op, it's not the skill itself.

depends on the opponent having passive aoe to decloak.

even without snare immunity cloak is pretty op against any singletarget oriented build in a 1v1 situation when you´re looking at survivability.

Nowadays there are no possibilities to put a nightblade out of cloak, right? Cloak needs a rework yes , but why should it be op ?

In a 1v1 vs a class with no passive aoe? Yeah i wonder why an ability that prevents from getting attacked entirely there could be labeled op in that situation

Datthaw · January 2019

Lol you're relating everything off a 1v1, that's not how zos balances the game. Team magnb is still a good dueler. But that build to win duels with is going to suck in cyro and bgs

CompM4s · January 2019

Ive seen good 1v1 type magblades and ive also seen some really inpressive bombers wipe groups.

steven22 · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

If you're playing stamblade with snare immunity, then yeah Cloak is OP. id you're playing magicka with no snare immunity then no not really. snare immunity is what makes cloak op, it's not the skill itself.

depends on the opponent having passive aoe to decloak.

even without snare immunity cloak is pretty op against any singletarget oriented build in a 1v1 situation when you´re looking at survivability.

I really, really ,really disagree. Cloak imo is ONLY good with snare removal. Anyone who is a decent player can lock down a snared magnb and keep them out of cloak. And you only have 1 shot and pulling of a shade to disengage. Problem is if you shade and they gapclose....rip

Which means they have a gapcloser, a snare and an aoe to decloak the nb?

Also the NB can snare opponents aswell. I´m pretty sure you won´t ever kill a magblade 1v1 without passive aoe to decloak.

steven22 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Isn’t cloak the most op skill in the game?

If you're playing stamblade with snare immunity, then yeah Cloak is OP. id you're playing magicka with no snare immunity then no not really. snare immunity is what makes cloak op, it's not the skill itself.

depends on the opponent having passive aoe to decloak.

even without snare immunity cloak is pretty op against any singletarget oriented build in a 1v1 situation when you´re looking at survivability.

Nowadays there are no possibilities to put a nightblade out of cloak, right? Cloak needs a rework yes , but why should it be op ?

In a 1v1 vs a class with no passive aoe? Yeah i wonder why an ability that prevents from getting attacked entirely there could be labeled op in that situation

Yes , you are right . Cloak was stronger in the past. In an 1 vs 1 Situation its pretty boring for your opponent , i guess.But as a Magblade in Openworld its very important, because healing in light armor isnt that great.