Is Magblade Even a Class anymore?

WacArnold

Magblade is just garbage to put it lightly. The identity of the class is completely gone, I mean seriously whats the purpose of a magblade? Bomber builds still have a little relativity but is this what magblade has come to a suicide bomber? Ranged has so many counters its not even funny, and melee you have to have a gift to get anywhere and still most classes will would pick a fight with you just for practice and a good laugh. I just don't even know what this class is about anymore its a crap sorc mixed with a crap templar only to be countered by most other classes.

I know there are some that can still make it work and i'm glad for those of you still play it, but in the big picture of things you might as well shoot yourself in the foot in cyrodiil playing one. The disadvantage to being a magblade far out weights the advantages imo. Just look at the overall population of cyrodiil (I can only speak for xbox) magblades are rare. Every patch since siphoning attacks was first changed this class has had nerf after nerf after nerf, now here we are a broken lost class that has no idea if it should even be in cyrodiil in the first place.

You may not agree with me but I know this class has gone into the crapper compared to other classes. ZOS for gods sake play a magblade once in a while.

Beardimus

Erm, not sure if you played in 2018 at all when they dominated PvE and PvP...

The crap sorc comment made me lol, as reach meta favoured MagBlade pretty strongly. Honnestly Blades haven't had much to complain about for a good while.

BUT NB vs Sorc pride battle aside i do hate it when a class loses it's identity or purpose. Sorcs have right now, gone are the hard hitting glass cannons of the past. Now we are all tanky and hit like a wet lettuce if they haven't mitigated half the burst. It's weir when they move classes away from what feels natural to them.

NyassaV

Beardimus wrote: »

Erm, not sure if you played in 2018 at all when they dominated PvE and PvP...

The crap sorc comment made me lol, as reach meta favoured MagBlade pretty strongly. Honnestly Blades haven't had much to complain about for a good while.

BUT NB vs Sorc pride battle aside i do hate it when a class loses it's identity or purpose. Sorcs have right now, gone are the hard hitting glass cannons of the past. Now we are all tanky and hit like a wet lettuce if they haven't mitigated half the burst. It's weir when they move classes away from what feels natural to them.

They never dominated PvP unless you are a "Stormhaven Hero"

The class has little to no identity and is basically an edgy sorc with red magic. It can preform but not well and there are many reasons for that.

WacArnold

Beardimus wrote: »

Erm, not sure if you played in 2018 at all when they dominated PvE and PvP...

The crap sorc comment made me lol, as reach meta favoured MagBlade pretty strongly. Honnestly Blades haven't had much to complain about for a good while.

BUT NB vs Sorc pride battle aside i do hate it when a class loses it's identity or purpose. Sorcs have right now, gone are the hard hitting glass cannons of the past. Now we are all tanky and hit like a wet lettuce if they haven't mitigated half the burst. It's weir when they move classes away from what feels natural to them.

Your right, it is weird. I guess its the same for both classes it throws us for a loop when our damage is not as high, and we are building around defense instead
.
Let me rephrase my crap comments lol, With the lower damage and mediocre heals and not sure if magblades are suppose to be subpar Dps or healers.

Berenhir

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

thankyourat

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Berenhir

thankyourat wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Only because you cannot build it does not mean I cannot have it

Metemsycosis

I disagree with you op. Mageblade is in a good place but there are internal Balances. You can't have everything and be the best at it all. No class can.

Now it seems to me at least in theory i can defeat any class but any class can defeat me. The Magicka DK hard counter is a myth. No more easy wins against medium armored opponents, etc.

ScruffyWhiskers

The struggle is real but I like the challenge. Heck, I even saw Mizaru slumming it and playing a ranged mag nb a few nights ago. He was still kicking it but I would wager he would tell you that people don't melt as fast as on his stam nb.

ScruffyWhiskers

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I disagree with you op. Mageblade is in a good place but there are internal Balances. You can't have everything and be the best at it all. No class can.

Now it seems to me at least in theory i can defeat any class but any class can defeat me. The Magicka DK hard counter is a myth. No more easy wins against medium armored opponents, etc.

I would say there are more "not a good match up/strong counter classes and builds" than ever before. It depends on how well played the opposition is of course but magnb is a jack of all trades master of none and could really use some refinement...I'd prefer it to be more melee orientated but that's never going to happen.

Metemsycosis

I think it is well balanced ranged vs melee. We have a gap closer. A melee spammable. A ranged spammable. A ranged cc. A melee cc. We have a ranged proc that doesn't require a bow or staff. We have two melee ultis. A ranged dot. A melee aoe that empowers spells. You can run almost all that on one bar.

Btw Mageblade is a master of stealth and trickery. How you gonna lie and say they're not lol.

LeifErickson

I personally think staff mnb is pretty solid. It might need a couple adjustments here and there but overall it seems like a solid choice in a lot of types of pvp. Melee magblade on the other hand (other than gank builds because mnb gank is really strong) I think could use some help. But the truth is that all melee mag classes could use some help, not just nb. There are many changes that have nerfed melee mag builds but one of the main ones is the fact that you don't get beefy lights on melee mag. I think it's time zos adds a melee mag weapon line.

Metemsycosis

Destro and melee in heavy (arcane/swift jewelry) is imo best for mageblade this patch.

Good healing, damage is varied and yet easy to use, hard to land but worthwhile burst. Tanky, elusive.

ETA: a buddy of mine likes btb+ shackle breaker in light / seems successful

ak_pvp

I mean, yeah its got some identity issues considering it has pretty bad healing whilst damaging... despite having the siphoning tree. Its offense is janky being heavily single target and easy enough to predict. However it has two of the best abilities in game in shade and cloak. A strong PvE pressence even now. Better sustain than the other mag classes. (Except maybe magden)
Its a slightly underperforming class as opposed to a dead one.

mav1234

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Destro and melee in heavy (arcane/swift jewelry) is imo best for mageblade this patch.

Good healing, damage is varied and yet easy to use, hard to land but worthwhile burst. Tanky, elusive.

ETA: a buddy of mine likes btb+ shackle breaker in light / seems successful

destro and melee? two separate builds, or running a melee backbar? curious where the healing is from here - I suppose troll king in a refreshing path maybe?

also, swift jewelry? Just hard to justify after the patch...

Metemsycosis

mav1234 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Destro and melee in heavy (arcane/swift jewelry) is imo best for mageblade this patch.

Good healing, damage is varied and yet easy to use, hard to land but worthwhile burst. Tanky, elusive.

ETA: a buddy of mine likes btb+ shackle breaker in light / seems successful

destro and melee? two separate builds, or running a melee backbar? curious where the healing is from here - I suppose troll king in a refreshing path maybe?

also, swift jewelry? Just hard to justify after the patch...

No. I run either reach or pulse with lotus concealed and tether /impale or spectral bow. Back bar is healing and escape/fight control. I.e., shade, cloak, manifestation of terror, mist, cripple, lights champion.

mav1234

Metemsycosis wrote: »

No. I run either reach or pulse with lotus concealed and tether /impale or spectral bow. Back bar is healing and escape/fight control. I.e., shade, cloak, manifestation of terror, mist, cripple, lights champion.

Interesting setup - do you typically run Dark Cloak, or are you still using Shadowy Disguise? Your front bar is very typical for when I've run melee destro, but I always did it in light and found it too squishy (surprise! :P). May try it in heavy, I appreciate the suggestion.

NyassaV

Berenhir wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Only because you cannot build it does not mean I cannot have it

MagDK has more self healing than a Magblade. Stamplar now has better sustain than a magblade. All of magblade's damage is refelctable. Bar space is worse than before because ZOS screwed healing ward. Almost forced to use blackrose resto. Best burst heal is blessing of protection and that actually has a chance to miss you sometimes as well as having a delay between cast and when it hits your character.

NyassaV

LeifErickson wrote: »

I personally think staff mnb is pretty solid. It might need a couple adjustments here and there but overall it seems like a solid choice in a lot of types of pvp. Melee magblade on the other hand (other than gank builds because mnb gank is really strong) I think could use some help. But the truth is that all melee mag classes could use some help, not just nb. There are many changes that have nerfed melee mag builds but one of the main ones is the fact that you don't get beefy lights on melee mag. I think it's time zos adds a melee mag weapon line.

Staff magblade used to be pretty solid but with murkmire it's... Personally it's not worth playing anymore but it can still do things. It's not very fun anymore and the class still lacks a lot of identity. The class' best stun is a melee range skill as well as their best ultimate but every other skill compliments a ranged playstyle not to mention that the ranged playstyle means you have low uptime of your major resist buffs making it even harder to go into melee for use of those aforementioned skills. You used to be able to cast path to get the resistance buff but ever since path got screwed over it's not worth using especially since mutagen does more healing.

Metemsycosis

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mav1234 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

No. I run either reach or pulse with lotus concealed and tether /impale or spectral bow. Back bar is healing and escape/fight control. I.e., shade, cloak, manifestation of terror, mist, cripple, lights champion.

Interesting setup - do you typically run Dark Cloak, or are you still using Shadowy Disguise? Your front bar is very typical for when I've run melee destro, but I always did it in light and found it too squishy (surprise! :P). May try it in heavy, I appreciate the suggestion.

Exactly. Shadowy disguise. A typical combo might be like: cripple, weapon switch, cloak, heavy attack, lotus, concealed, soul harvest. Or stay range and light weave until bow proc/ulti.

If you use caluu jewelery plus weapon (I don't, not really often) the combo is even simpler.

Berenhir

NyassaV wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Only because you cannot build it does not mean I cannot have it

MagDK has more self healing than a Magblade. Stamplar now has better sustain than a magblade. All of magblade's damage is refelctable. Bar space is worse than before because ZOS screwed healing ward. Almost forced to use blackrose resto. Best burst heal is blessing of protection and that actually has a chance to miss you sometimes as well as having a delay between cast and when it hits your character.

Healing Ward is not worth using anymore, LA shield is better in every aspect. If you rely on healing ward, you need a burst heal to compensate for the loss of the initial heal. Play your toon like a stamtoon who uses vigor and get your hots and weaving heals rolling and give them time to work with LA shield, cloak, stuns or dodge.

Reflect is a problem but unlike other classes, you usually have the choice to disengage. I use WoE and soul tether/harvest to deny my opponent a cosy time in melee range. Once the opponents take damage, they usually get sloppy with their wings and I can poke for assassin's will burst windows. I still vote for cripple being unreflectable though.

Sustain is not an issue for me as I use maelstrom resto, light armor, siphoning attacks and only play my argonian nightblade in PvP. So I can sustain fine with 1.6k regen.

I would advise everybody to drop vamp though as it makes you absurdly squishy and unable to fight decent DKs or stamtoons with DBoS. It also gives you the option to use citrus filet properly and thus another 350 hps, which is not much but every HoT counts when you stack them

dazee

Classes and Class identity in a game with free builds? please. You're the one who should decide how your class plays in ESO.

Datthaw

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

The struggle is real but I like the challenge. Heck, I even saw Mizaru slumming it and playing a ranged mag nb a few nights ago. He was still kicking it but I would wager he would tell you that people don't melt as fast as on his stam nb.

The fact that you say magdk hard counter is a myth tell me you either don't play magblade or are just really bad and can't tell the difference in who you're fighting.

Datthaw

Magnb was hit the hardest with the shield nerf. I have tried ton of different combos, heavy, light, ranged, melee, all of them have major issues. I would get into all rhe different major problems with each playstyle I've found but honestly what's the point. Zos won't do anything about it

Zer0oo

Datthaw wrote: »

Magnb was hit the hardest with the shield nerf. I have tried ton of different combos, heavy, light, ranged, melee, all of them have major issues. I would get into all rhe different major problems with each playstyle I've found but honestly what's the point. Zos won't do anything about it

Sorcs got hit in my opinion the hardest after that nbs. I really do not know how the hell they thought taking away the little heal of healing ward was a good idea.
The buff to wings also made it so that all dks now run wings which just leaves the almost unkillable for sorc and nbs.

Also i totally agree that nb lost it's identity in my opinion: fast, squishy, healing scaling of damage.

CatchMeTrolling

NyassaV wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Only because you cannot build it does not mean I cannot have it

MagDK has more self healing than a Magblade. Stamplar now has better sustain than a magblade. All of magblade's damage is refelctable. Bar space is worse than before because ZOS screwed healing ward. Almost forced to use blackrose resto. Best burst heal is blessing of protection and that actually has a chance to miss you sometimes as well as having a delay between cast and when it hits your character.

Magblade has issues but sustain isn’t one of them, destro/resto magblade still has the best sustain in the game.

The issues are mainly related to snares, the lack of a purge and shields. Sure you “can’t” be a jack of all trades but you shouldn’t be able to do that. Plus, when cloak/shade is working magblade becomes pretty survivable. So in a sense they still have all 3.

ScruffyWhiskers

Datthaw wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

The struggle is real but I like the challenge. Heck, I even saw Mizaru slumming it and playing a ranged mag nb a few nights ago. He was still kicking it but I would wager he would tell you that people don't melt as fast as on his stam nb.

The fact that you say magdk hard counter is a myth tell me you either don't play magblade or are just really bad and can't tell the difference in who you're fighting.

I think you are quoting the wrong guy. I generally don't take mag DK's on unless they are afk or I am surfing a friendly angry zerg. That whip stings as much as a dawnbreaker to the face.

Lucky28

Beardimus wrote: »

Erm, not sure if you played in 2018 at all when they dominated PvE and PvP...

The crap sorc comment made me lol, as reach meta favoured MagBlade pretty strongly. Honnestly Blades haven't had much to complain about for a good while.

BUT NB vs Sorc pride battle aside i do hate it when a class loses it's identity or purpose. Sorcs have right now, gone are the hard hitting glass cannons of the past. Now we are all tanky and hit like a wet lettuce if they haven't mitigated half the burst. It's weir when they move classes away from what feels natural to them.

they dominated because they where the funniest class to play more so than the "strongest" they had interesting abilities that played in interesting ways.

and the "crap sorc" comment is more force pulse than reach. it's better to run FP as you spammable than Strife which is *** ***. on top of that they made refreshing path basically rapid regen. they just made such a mess of magblade, i tried to play magblade again last week i think, it was just infuriating. sure i could get kills but it wasn't fun.

jaime1982

I've been on a magblade for a few months now, it's ok but not great. I'll go on to a stam build after today.

Lucky28

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Only because you cannot build it does not mean I cannot have it

MagDK has more self healing than a Magblade. Stamplar now has better sustain than a magblade. All of magblade's damage is refelctable. Bar space is worse than before because ZOS screwed healing ward. Almost forced to use blackrose resto. Best burst heal is blessing of protection and that actually has a chance to miss you sometimes as well as having a delay between cast and when it hits your character.

Magblade has issues but sustain isn’t one of them, destro/resto magblade still has the best sustain in the game.

The issues are mainly related to snares, the lack of a purge and shields. Sure you “can’t” be a jack of all trades but you shouldn’t be able to do that. Plus, when cloak/shade is working magblade becomes pretty survivable. So in a sense they still have all 3.

No, sorry. stamplar is better. i switched to stamplar with murkmire, stamplar seriously has better sustain than magblade.

NyassaV

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Imho destro resto magblade is fine at the moment. Maybe an issue with playstyle?

By fine do you mean playable? Because i agree it's playable, but it's horrible compared to other classes at the moment. It's just too off meta. everything in cyrodiil counters it. Everyone has snares and roots, everyone has AOEs, most players have some form of reflect. Combine that with the lack of burst healing and it leads to alot of problems especially once you get into execute range.

Another big problem is how some classes can have everything they need a magblade can't have that. You can't have damage survivability and sustain as a magblade. You can only have two out of three. Magsorc has the same problem right now and that's due to the shield change.

Only because you cannot build it does not mean I cannot have it

MagDK has more self healing than a Magblade. Stamplar now has better sustain than a magblade. All of magblade's damage is refelctable. Bar space is worse than before because ZOS screwed healing ward. Almost forced to use blackrose resto. Best burst heal is blessing of protection and that actually has a chance to miss you sometimes as well as having a delay between cast and when it hits your character.

Magblade has issues but sustain isn’t one of them, destro/resto magblade still has the best sustain in the game.

The issues are mainly related to snares, the lack of a purge and shields. Sure you “can’t” be a jack of all trades but you shouldn’t be able to do that. Plus, when cloak/shade is working magblade becomes pretty survivable. So in a sense they still have all 3.

I'm not saying sustain is a major issue but to say it still has the best sustain in the game is incorrect.