Let's discuss Cloak

nckg84

I think we can all agree that PvP blance in this entire game is *** no?. We have class reps and devs that don't understand pvp. That is the entire issue i think. It is currently just a *** pile of unbalanced skills and classes geared towards casual easy mode pvp. That is what ZOS focussed on, that is where the money is.

ShadowHvo

Aedrion wrote: »

Since only a select few people are actually producing arguments - for which you have my thanks - to back up their claims and it seems hard to pinpoint whether or not cloak is too strong, let me ask another question.

A challenge, if you will.

Give me the name of another skill in ESO that offers the consistent protection, control, and combat potency that cloak does.
A skill that offers at least as many or more benefits than those I listed in the first post.

If that skill is another NB skill, you lose at life so don't pick from those lines.

Consistent....

Lol what.

Arkangeloski

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Aedrion wrote: »

Since only a select few people are actually producing arguments - for which you have my thanks - to back up their claims and it seems hard to pinpoint whether or not cloak is too strong, let me ask another question.

A challenge, if you will.

Give me the name of another skill in ESO that offers the consistent protection, control, and combat potency that cloak does.
A skill that offers at least as many or more benefits than those I listed in the first post.

If that skill is another NB skill, you lose at life so don't pick from those lines.

Consistent....

Lol what.

Don't even bother lol he is complaining about a "skill" but then he is adding a bunch of class passives in to the mix lol pretty much what he is asking for is to scrap the class and start all over... i love how entitled people are in this game they want their kills handed to them and if they can't adapt like everybody else and their grand mother they come here to cry "discuss" sorry bro, bottom line is the developers don't care about what you or anybody here thinks... they do what they want and whatever brings them more revenue and that is that. And this thread..? Just another nerf thread in disguise added to the pile of already made threads about this subject...troll

I swear I will die the day I read a buff thread in this forum lol... reddit 4 the win

Drdeath20

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

Ahhh. Is this thread is about dueling and 1v1. Now I see the disconnect.

Is this "nerf cloak" argument solely for 1v1s, or is cloak over-performing in 1vX and group play?

It's over performing in xv1'ing like most stuff that are over performing are, trying to fight solo a nightblade that keeps cloaking whenever you get him low while his buddies spam damage and cc's at you and when you try to focus his buddies instead the nightblade comes out like the hero he is with full HP and incaps you and deals the most damage so you are forced to focus him back but he just starts spamming cloak again, is very fun. Not to mention the nightblades 20 meters away spamming snipe from cloak.

Slot steelnado, slot a detection pot

Profit

nty

Then don't complain. Do I make a post for every kid spamming steelnado that killes me when I'm cloaked? And spamming steelnado takes even less skill than spamming cloak.

It is not NBs fault to have a tool to kill while undetected, that's a feature, do we take away the feature to make everyone else comfortable or do we learn how to counter NBs?

Do we take away wings or do we realize that shock staff force pulse and melee shuts down wings?

Do we take away temps healing or do we try defile?

We already took shields from sorc, was that a solution?

They did nerf sorcs shields, dk wings, and temps major mending. C'mon man, do better!

Drdeath20

Increase its cost significantly but add a few seconds to its duration.

You want to spam cloak snipe on your stam blade well now you need to invest in magicka.

1, 2 or even 3 cloaks as a defense on your stamblade seems fair but not back to back

Juhasow

Trancestor wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Disable health recovery and dot immunity while in cloak, after being revealed by an aoe skill add a 1 second cooldown in which you cant recast cloak. Bad NB's will cry and threaten to quit the game good NB's will adapt but it has to be done.

I also think cloak needs to be changed somehow, but this would be too much of a nerf.

@Juhasow what do you mean it will not exist? If sloads can proc on cloak and not decloak you then zos can do the same with other dots.

What do You mean by "DoT immunity" then ? Current cloak DoT immunity means that all DoT ticks are surpassed when nightblade is in cloak but when he leaves cloak those ticks again start to deal dmg if DoT timer not expired. Disabling that would mean You want DoT to deal dmg to nb in cloak which means he is getting revealed from cloak by DoT ticks. Also Your description of Sload is not how Sload works.

Make it so dots dont decloak you then?

They dont currently so what would Your change do ? You want DoTs to deal dmg but not decloak target ? You know this is not how things in this game works ?

Who said so? Is it impossible to program cloak to not be disabled from dots damaging you?

You see You think that all is needed is few lines of code and everything is done. There would be plenty of game code changes if that thing would have to work which also means more calculations which also means more lag. Simpliest things like damage indicators would need new rules. For example how would You want to resolve issue that currently when You deal dmg , flytext with dmg numbers appears on enemy. If You would leave it that way and just implement Your idea that would basically mean that DoTs would signal position of enemy in cloak which would make cloak useless. If You would want to implement new calculations that when enemy is in cloak damage indicators wont appear that would have little to no sense for general idea for damage indicators , if You would want to make damage indicators to just appear in random place not the place where nightblade in cloak is and then switch to showing normally when nightblade reapears that would add bunch of calculations (lag) and mess on Your screen. There is plenty of small things like that , which would have to be changed and plenty of opportunities that something will get screwed by the procces.

Juhasow

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

Ahhh. Is this thread is about dueling and 1v1. Now I see the disconnect.

Is this "nerf cloak" argument solely for 1v1s, or is cloak over-performing in 1vX and group play?

It's over performing in xv1'ing like most stuff that are over performing are, trying to fight solo a nightblade that keeps cloaking whenever you get him low while his buddies spam damage and cc's at you and when you try to focus his buddies instead the nightblade comes out like the hero he is with full HP and incaps you and deals the most damage so you are forced to focus him back but he just starts spamming cloak again, is very fun. Not to mention the nightblades 20 meters away spamming snipe from cloak.

Slot steelnado, slot a detection pot

Profit

nty

Then don't complain. Do I make a post for every kid spamming steelnado that killes me when I'm cloaked? And spamming steelnado takes even less skill than spamming cloak.

It is not NBs fault to have a tool to kill while undetected, that's a feature, do we take away the feature to make everyone else comfortable or do we learn how to counter NBs?

Do we take away wings or do we realize that shock staff force pulse and melee shuts down wings?

Do we take away temps healing or do we try defile?

We already took shields from sorc, was that a solution?

So basically you want there to be no build diversity in the game, every stam build has to use duel wield and be a spin2win tard, every mag build has to slot a shock staff and force pulse, f*** playing the game the way you like right? And all this to counter 2 specific skills, how about changing those 2 skills that are clearly over performing since it's so needed to fundamentally change your build to counter them, instead of telling everyone to change their builds and playstyles?

And sorc shields are actually stronger than ever, but maybe you wouldn't know that since all you play and care about is Nightblades?

Do you understand that you can't build to counter everything? You want to kill DKs? Then Nbs will prey on you. Do you want to shut down sorcs? Then Templars will be your nemesis. Do you want to shut down NBs? You can do it, but don't complain on DKs.

You can't build the uber build to kill them all. Sorry for being honest, but in this game one of the first lessons is learning to lose. You can't win all the fights. If you don't learn that, then the whole experience is even crappier (it is already crap with the lag).

I think it is You who dont understand that in current form stamblade is capable to build to kill everything. Like seriously name 1 build that stamblade wont find the way to kill and at the same time that build will be able to easily deal with stamblade (and I am not talking about duel tournaments memes).

Juhasow

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Increase its cost significantly but add a few seconds to its duration.

You want to spam cloak snipe on your stam blade well now you need to invest in magicka.

1, 2 or even 3 cloaks as a defense on your stamblade seems fair but not back to back

As long as there is magicka regen that wont change much. With increased cost and increased duration yes You'll pay more to use cloak but You'll recover more magicka while invisible for longer amount of time so at the end You'll have pretty much similar magicka remained to recast cloak after previous one ends.

Also on stamblade true issue is how cloak synergizes with roll dodge and shade plus general mobility adventage stamblade have over magblade. With enough magicka to use 3 cloacks You can do like 10 roll dodges in between (3-4 for each cloak use because when You use cloak You regain stamina through stamina regen and You reset dodge roll penalty) and at the end just teleport to shade and during all of that take close to none dmg sometimes. During all of that You can keep DoT dmg pressure on enemy and then just jump on him with incap to close the case.

Priyasekarssk

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

Magicka NB requires more nerf than stamNB. They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

Juhasow

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

Magicka NB requires more nerf than stamNB. They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

No , magicka nb does not require stronger nerf then stamblade if that would be the case nerf would happen long time ago.
No , mag nb and stam nb are not on the same level magblade have way more counters then stamblade.
No , magblades are not top tier in every duel tournaments. Also duel tournaments have nothing to do with PvP in Cyro or in BGs and having veiw of balance based on duel tournaments is silly. It's like saying that magsorc is OP in PvE because You can make easy vMA build with it.

Aedrion

Juhasow wrote: »

You see You think that all is needed is few lines of code and everything is done. There would be plenty of game code changes if that thing would have to work which also means more calculations which also means more lag. Simpliest things like damage indicators would need new rules. For example how would You want to resolve issue that currently when You deal dmg , flytext with dmg numbers appears on enemy. If You would leave it that way and just implement Your idea that would basically mean that DoTs would signal position of enemy in cloak which would make cloak useless. If You would want to implement new calculations that when enemy is in cloak damage indicators wont appear that would have little to no sense for general idea for damage indicators , if You would want to make damage indicators to just appear in random place not the place where nightblade in cloak is and then switch to showing normally when nightblade reapears that would add bunch of calculations (lag) and mess on Your screen. There is plenty of small things like that , which would have to be changed and plenty of opportunities that something will get screwed by the procces.

If I might just interject here. Your whole argument here is basically: ZoS is too incompetent for this.
I mean... it's not... entirely wrong but that literally cannot be the excuse for not having certain game changes.

It would imply that ZoS might create another skill or set in the future that might not be balanced but also can never be fixed because alas... it's too complicated. They made this game, like any other dev from any other game, every aspect, no matter how tiny, should be able to be tweaked.

Also, currently, when you have dots active on a NB and they cloak, you can see "MISS" appear all over the place. I have tried using AoE's exactly on top of these "MISS" signs, only to see the NB re-appear somewhere else entirely.

I think the same can be done with damage, it doesn't seem to track the NB.

Priyasekarssk

Juhasow wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

Magicka NB requires more nerf than stamNB. They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

No , magicka nb does not require stronger nerf then stamblade if that would be the case nerf would happen long time ago.
No , mag nb and stam nb are not on the same level magblade have way more counters then stamblade.
No , magblades are not top tier in every duel tournaments. Also duel tournaments have nothing to do with PvP in Cyro or in BGs and having veiw of balance based on duel tournaments is silly. It's like saying that magsorc is OP in PvE because You can make easy vMA build with it.

Nope. Magicka nb is definitely OP and needs nerf. Just make 7k spell damage and noobs just spam swallows, killers blade 28 meters away. Within 2 seconds you are dead. You will get by a truck of 40k with all debuffs in 2 seconds. Its cheating. If this called game balance fine.
By the way how mag sorcs is OP when all leadership boards filled with magicka nb ? Shameless Liars.

Juhasow

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

Magicka NB requires more nerf than stamNB. They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

No , magicka nb does not require stronger nerf then stamblade if that would be the case nerf would happen long time ago.
No , mag nb and stam nb are not on the same level magblade have way more counters then stamblade.
No , magblades are not top tier in every duel tournaments. Also duel tournaments have nothing to do with PvP in Cyro or in BGs and having veiw of balance based on duel tournaments is silly. It's like saying that magsorc is OP in PvE because You can make easy vMA build with it.

Nope. Magicka nb is definitely OP and needs nerf. Just make 7k spell damage and noobs just spam swallows, killers blade 28 meters away. Within 2 seconds you are dead. You will get by a truck of 40k with all debuffs in 2 seconds. Its cheating. If this called game balance fine.
By the way how mag sorcs is OP when all leadership boards filled with magicka nb ? Shameless Liars.

Cant say if serious or trolling.

Juhasow

Aedrion wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

You see You think that all is needed is few lines of code and everything is done. There would be plenty of game code changes if that thing would have to work which also means more calculations which also means more lag. Simpliest things like damage indicators would need new rules. For example how would You want to resolve issue that currently when You deal dmg , flytext with dmg numbers appears on enemy. If You would leave it that way and just implement Your idea that would basically mean that DoTs would signal position of enemy in cloak which would make cloak useless. If You would want to implement new calculations that when enemy is in cloak damage indicators wont appear that would have little to no sense for general idea for damage indicators , if You would want to make damage indicators to just appear in random place not the place where nightblade in cloak is and then switch to showing normally when nightblade reapears that would add bunch of calculations (lag) and mess on Your screen. There is plenty of small things like that , which would have to be changed and plenty of opportunities that something will get screwed by the procces.

If I might just interject here. Your whole argument here is basically: ZoS is too incompetent for this.
I mean... it's not... entirely wrong but that literally cannot be the excuse for not having certain game changes.

It would imply that ZoS might create another skill or set in the future that might not be balanced but also can never be fixed because alas... it's too complicated. They made this game, like any other dev from any other game, every aspect, no matter how tiny, should be able to be tweaked.

Also, currently, when you have dots active on a NB and they cloak, you can see "MISS" appear all over the place. I have tried using AoE's exactly on top of these "MISS" signs, only to see the NB re-appear somewhere else entirely.

I think the same can be done with damage, it doesn't seem to track the NB.

No I think You misunderstood my whole argument. It's not about ZoS not being able to implement it. It's about the fact any way of implementing it will have flaws because of how game is designed. It's not "too complicated" it just replaces one issue with another.

Also I think You're not entirely understanding why those "miss , miss" occurs when nightblade is entering the cloak. It's not thing directly connected to damage indicators but to communication between two clients and the server. It's basically the same like when You LoS some player and still get hit by his attack or when You dodge roll attacks and get hit by them the only difference is that in case of cloak it'll show "miss , miss" because it cannot show anything else. Problem is that when 2 clients will provide slightly different information to server then server is freaking out. You can see it very clearly when You use reveal poison on nightblade and You'll attack him with some meele attack and despite seing him and using attack You'll still get those "miss , miss" indicators and nightblade will basically teleport on Your screen. This issue goes way beyond just damage indicators and have not much in common with issues that I was talking about in case of DoTs doing dmg to cloaked nightblades.

Priyasekarssk

Juhasow wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

Magicka NB requires more nerf than stamNB. They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

No , magicka nb does not require stronger nerf then stamblade if that would be the case nerf would happen long time ago.
No , mag nb and stam nb are not on the same level magblade have way more counters then stamblade.
No , magblades are not top tier in every duel tournaments. Also duel tournaments have nothing to do with PvP in Cyro or in BGs and having veiw of balance based on duel tournaments is silly. It's like saying that magsorc is OP in PvE because You can make easy vMA build with it.

Nope. Magicka nb is definitely OP and needs nerf. Just make 7k spell damage and noobs just spam swallows, killers blade 28 meters away. Within 2 seconds you are dead. You will get by a truck of 40k with all debuffs in 2 seconds. Its cheating. If this called game balance fine.
By the way how mag sorcs is OP when all leadership boards filled with magicka nb ? Shameless Liars.

Cant say if serious or trolling.

HeHe Good response if cant counter.

Kikke

This whole Nightblade duscussion reminds me about the world of roguecraft seriers where a warlock tried to show how sickly OP rogues were in WoW....

Dont bother talking sense to them, they think they are amazing ninjas and the incapacity to stop them is just because other players are not as skilled as them....

It was false back then, and its false here..
Sneak is just a general overpowered mechanic and the class that can abuse this the best will be top dog. End.

Kikke

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

Magicka NB requires more nerf than stamNB. They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

This is only because all dueling tournaments are made by NBs for NBs. Just look at their ruleset.

RighteousBacon

I really don’t understand why cloak is such a problem for some people. It’s nevee much of a problem for me when fighting a nightblade. I always have some way of countering it

idk

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

Who cares about dual tournaments. They mean nothing as they are not an actual part of PvP. Besides, it is questionable that this statement is even correct.

brandonv516

Healthy Offering creates a self DoT that cannot be purged but also does not break NB in Cloak. So is it possible to make enemy DoTs damage NBs and not break Cloak? Likely yes.

But I don't think this is the direction it should go. I could see more bugs created as a result, some even game breaking. This could require months of balance changes. For console players those months are doubled.

Also simply succeeding with this change does not achieve balance without tweaking healing/sustain for NBs (both of which have consistently been nerfed each patch).

Some have suggested negating regeneration (health or magicka) while in Cloak. These players justify it by comparing it to Mist Form which is just ridiculous.

The idea of imposing a penalty based on spamming the skill seems fair but as stated above sustain has only been hindered for NBs. I'd rather Sorcerers Streak penalty be reverted for those comparing Cloak to that skill.

So again I reiterate that no idea presented so far is enough to get excited about. In the end it won't be up to you or me though.

Hopefully they will just leave it alone and non-NBs having difficulty with Cloak will start using the plethora of tools/skills available.

HowlKimchi

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

Magblade does not have a burst heal so being able to take cover for a second helps our hots. This is gonna come back and screw magblade and stam will be fine. Sounds like this thread should be focused on stamblade since 90% is about stam. Be sure to leave magblade and our cloak out of the discussion.

Plus nightblade promotes solo play nerf cloak then all we have is zergs, tanks and lag.

Magicka NB requires more nerf than stamNB. They are in same level. They top tiers in all dual tournaments.

No , magicka nb does not require stronger nerf then stamblade if that would be the case nerf would happen long time ago.
No , mag nb and stam nb are not on the same level magblade have way more counters then stamblade.
No , magblades are not top tier in every duel tournaments. Also duel tournaments have nothing to do with PvP in Cyro or in BGs and having veiw of balance based on duel tournaments is silly. It's like saying that magsorc is OP in PvE because You can make easy vMA build with it.

Nope. Magicka nb is definitely OP and needs nerf. Just make 7k spell damage and noobs just spam swallows, killers blade 28 meters away. Within 2 seconds you are dead. You will get by a truck of 40k with all debuffs in 2 seconds. Its cheating. If this called game balance fine.
By the way how mag sorcs is OP when all leadership boards filled with magicka nb ? Shameless Liars.

lol wat

Vapirko

Cloak just needs a longer cool down OR it should not suppress all dots. It's too easy to simply reset the fight still. With that said, Magicka NBs need increased survivability outside of cloak.

But the bigger problem with NBs is really only with Stamblades, and that is the insane amount of secondary effects that come packed into their main damage rotation skills so that they don't need to go out of their way to have the most power single target abilities in the game paired with cloak and all the mobility that comes with stamina. ZOS has always veered towards nerfing NB skills that benefit straight forward gameplay like fear or refreshing path and swallow soul. What Stamblades don't need is 20% extra damage after hitting someone with incap strike. This is fine on soul harvest, but its not ok on incapacitating strike because stamina classes have way more upfront burst. They don't need minor berserk for 20 seconds on a skill that costs almost nothing and also gives you the hardest hitting skill procs in the game that you can choose when and where to use. Stamblades get major fracture on their opening move that is instant cast. Minor fracture would be way more in line for instant cast skills. Everyone else has to go with SB if they want major fracture, or stam wardens which have a delayed attack giving major fracture for 4 seconds, Stamblades get major fracture for 15 SECONDS instant cast. More than any class, Stamina NBs get nearly 100% uptime on an huge array of massive damage boosting buffs so much so that they can build entirely into defense and sustain and still dish out crazy pressure.

Ragnaroek93

Vapirko wrote: »

Cloak just needs a longer cool down OR it should not suppress all dots. It's too easy to simply reset the fight still. With that said, Magicka NBs need increased survivability outside of cloak.

But the bigger problem with NBs is really only with Stamblades, and that is the insane amount of secondary effects that come packed into their main damage rotation skills so that they don't need to go out of their way to have the most power single target abilities in the game paired with cloak and all the mobility that comes with stamina. ZOS has always veered towards nerfing NB skills that benefit straight forward gameplay like fear or refreshing path and swallow soul. What Stamblades don't need is 20% extra damage after hitting someone with incap strike. This is fine on soul harvest, but its not ok on incapacitating strike because stamina classes have way more upfront burst. They don't need minor berserk for 20 seconds on a skill that costs almost nothing and also gives you the hardest hitting skill procs in the game that you can choose when and where to use. Stamblades get major fracture on their opening move that is instant cast. Minor fracture would be way more in line for instant cast skills. Everyone else has to go with SB if they want major fracture, or stam wardens which have a delayed attack giving major fracture for 4 seconds, Stamblades get major fracture for 15 SECONDS instant cast. More than any class, Stamina NBs get nearly 100% uptime on an huge array of massive damage boosting buffs so much so that they can build entirely into defense and sustain and still dish out crazy pressure.

If you take away all of these, can I have more damage over time, more healing, more defense and more snares in return? You talk about pressure, meanwhile stamnb has only burst unless you build around bleeds which aren't a nb thing. I don't think that you know the class well considering what you are writing in your post.

Edit: Would like to have some AoE as well btw.

idk

Vapirko wrote: »

Cloak just needs a longer cool down OR it should not suppress all dots. It's too easy to simply reset the fight still. With that said, Magicka NBs need increased survivability outside of cloak.

Do not let them cloak and none of that happens. You have the power. Use it.

Xvorg

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

Ahhh. Is this thread is about dueling and 1v1. Now I see the disconnect.

Is this "nerf cloak" argument solely for 1v1s, or is cloak over-performing in 1vX and group play?

It's over performing in xv1'ing like most stuff that are over performing are, trying to fight solo a nightblade that keeps cloaking whenever you get him low while his buddies spam damage and cc's at you and when you try to focus his buddies instead the nightblade comes out like the hero he is with full HP and incaps you and deals the most damage so you are forced to focus him back but he just starts spamming cloak again, is very fun. Not to mention the nightblades 20 meters away spamming snipe from cloak.

Slot steelnado, slot a detection pot

Profit

nty

Then don't complain. Do I make a post for every kid spamming steelnado that killes me when I'm cloaked? And spamming steelnado takes even less skill than spamming cloak.

It is not NBs fault to have a tool to kill while undetected, that's a feature, do we take away the feature to make everyone else comfortable or do we learn how to counter NBs?

Do we take away wings or do we realize that shock staff force pulse and melee shuts down wings?

Do we take away temps healing or do we try defile?

We already took shields from sorc, was that a solution?

They did nerf sorcs shields, dk wings, and temps major mending. C'mon man, do better!

And also they nerfed cloak around the same time they nerfed DK wings, right?

Dark Cloak use to purge up to 4 effects, including DoTs, now it is a bad heal.I remember the complaint at that time (when dark cloak was nerfed) was precisely that it had a purge, not that it granted invisibility. No one had problems with the skill per se.

And here we are, 4 years later still discussing l2p issues.

Xvorg

Juhasow wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

tonemd wrote: »

Ahhh. Is this thread is about dueling and 1v1. Now I see the disconnect.

Is this "nerf cloak" argument solely for 1v1s, or is cloak over-performing in 1vX and group play?

It's over performing in xv1'ing like most stuff that are over performing are, trying to fight solo a nightblade that keeps cloaking whenever you get him low while his buddies spam damage and cc's at you and when you try to focus his buddies instead the nightblade comes out like the hero he is with full HP and incaps you and deals the most damage so you are forced to focus him back but he just starts spamming cloak again, is very fun. Not to mention the nightblades 20 meters away spamming snipe from cloak.

Slot steelnado, slot a detection pot

Profit

nty

Then don't complain. Do I make a post for every kid spamming steelnado that killes me when I'm cloaked? And spamming steelnado takes even less skill than spamming cloak.

It is not NBs fault to have a tool to kill while undetected, that's a feature, do we take away the feature to make everyone else comfortable or do we learn how to counter NBs?

Do we take away wings or do we realize that shock staff force pulse and melee shuts down wings?

Do we take away temps healing or do we try defile?

We already took shields from sorc, was that a solution?

So basically you want there to be no build diversity in the game, every stam build has to use duel wield and be a spin2win tard, every mag build has to slot a shock staff and force pulse, f*** playing the game the way you like right? And all this to counter 2 specific skills, how about changing those 2 skills that are clearly over performing since it's so needed to fundamentally change your build to counter them, instead of telling everyone to change their builds and playstyles?

And sorc shields are actually stronger than ever, but maybe you wouldn't know that since all you play and care about is Nightblades?

Do you understand that you can't build to counter everything? You want to kill DKs? Then Nbs will prey on you. Do you want to shut down sorcs? Then Templars will be your nemesis. Do you want to shut down NBs? You can do it, but don't complain on DKs.

You can't build the uber build to kill them all. Sorry for being honest, but in this game one of the first lessons is learning to lose. You can't win all the fights. If you don't learn that, then the whole experience is even crappier (it is already crap with the lag).

I think it is You who dont understand that in current form stamblade is capable to build to kill everything. Like seriously name 1 build that stamblade wont find the way to kill and at the same time that build will be able to easily deal with stamblade (and I am not talking about duel tournaments memes).

So NBs are unkillable gods? Then how is that I can counter most NBs ganks just by dodge rolling when I hear the attack coming on a light armor DK?

Sure, they kill me when I'm mounting, but is it the NBs fault to kill guys mounting in areas that are designed for ganking?

Anyway, if you take away cloak for NBs, you should give them something as good as cloak to compensate, or do you just suggest a nerf without compensation?

Joosef_Kivikilpi

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I feel like the biggest problem of cloak is that it's not fun to fight against. It's really frustrating for your opponent if you are using cloak effectively and I think that's why people are so annoyed with the skill.

I have no problem with cloak. But NB damage and CC needs some serious nerf. Very serious . 35K dps within 2 seconds is ridiculous . NB can have builds up to 7K+ weapon or spell damage , which is down right stupid. Only DKs , wardens with heavy armor meta can survive that ***.

What ZOs wants is every one run around with 35K+ resistance with good healing in DKs & wardens with seventh legion with 3.5K weapon damage and 7k penetration. Combine dawn-breaker at same time. Roll over entire map as immortals.
Now almost entire cyrodil population is DKs or wardens with some healers here and there.

Complete crap . Right now ZOs is full EP xenophobics only buff EP races and classes excluding wardens. See DK with lizards immortals even with 10+ mage sorcs. DK warden another immortals. Magicka NBs with Dark elf never nerfed or other dps classes buffed. All trials only magicka NB dps. Why cant buff other class DPS ? On duels top 10 its only Nbs , DKs and wardens. In Bgs I simply quit if I have light armor build in my team and opponents have 4 DKs or 4 Wardens or 4 NBs . Its simple waste of time.

Only aim of balance team is for EP to win all alliance wars ? Ok lets all play EP.

Who cares , Noob streamers want it to kill potatoes and self proclaim themselves as pros. Post murkmire *** entire cyrodil is tank mania.

So when is StamWarden spamming Steel Tornado with a constant 17-20% damage boost to everyone hit from animal passive (Bird of Prey, Sub Assault, Bull Netch, Cliffracer etc) going to be discussed since Nightblade seems to have so much damage? (Nightblade = 8% from Grim Focus, then 20% extra damage on one target which is hit by Incapacitating Strike for 6 seconds...)

Just not a fan of people complaining about Nightblade damage and burst with Stamina Warden being overlooked on this regard.

Kikke

Funny how defensive NBs become when you talk about their defence, while NBs was the loud majority when it came to other classes's defensive abilities nerfs.

Heimpai

I agree that cloak needs adjusting however magblade needs adjusting first or you will basically destroy magblades while stamblades will still be top tier

Priyasekarssk

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I feel like the biggest problem of cloak is that it's not fun to fight against. It's really frustrating for your opponent if you are using cloak effectively and I think that's why people are so annoyed with the skill.

I have no problem with cloak. But NB damage and CC needs some serious nerf. Very serious . 35K dps within 2 seconds is ridiculous . NB can have builds up to 7K+ weapon or spell damage , which is down right stupid. Only DKs , wardens with heavy armor meta can survive that ***.

What ZOs wants is every one run around with 35K+ resistance with good healing in DKs & wardens with seventh legion with 3.5K weapon damage and 7k penetration. Combine dawn-breaker at same time. Roll over entire map as immortals.
Now almost entire cyrodil population is DKs or wardens with some healers here and there.

Complete crap . Right now ZOs is full EP xenophobics only buff EP races and classes excluding wardens. See DK with lizards immortals even with 10+ mage sorcs. DK warden another immortals. Magicka NBs with Dark elf never nerfed or other dps classes buffed. All trials only magicka NB dps. Why cant buff other class DPS ? On duels top 10 its only Nbs , DKs and wardens. In Bgs I simply quit if I have light armor build in my team and opponents have 4 DKs or 4 Wardens or 4 NBs . Its simple waste of time.

Only aim of balance team is for EP to win all alliance wars ? Ok lets all play EP.

Who cares , Noob streamers want it to kill potatoes and self proclaim themselves as pros. Post murkmire *** entire cyrodil is tank mania.

So when is StamWarden spamming Steel Tornado with a constant 17-20% damage boost to everyone hit from animal passive (Bird of Prey, Sub Assault, Bull Netch, Cliffracer etc) going to be discussed since Nightblade seems to have so much damage? (Nightblade = 8% from Grim Focus, then 20% extra damage on one target which is hit by Incapacitating Strike for 6 seconds...)

Just not a fan of people complaining about Nightblade damage and burst with Stamina Warden being overlooked on this regard.

Question is why NBs can have builds with 7K+ spell damage ? Warden cannot have that much damage specs because they dont have cloak and hide infinitely or escape with shadow image.
Warden or DK nerf is another topic. All running permafrost , sub + steel tornado . Easy kills in heary armor. Heavy armor meta has to go.