The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Let's discuss Cloak
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Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.
Edited by Dojohoda on December 30, 2018 8:02PMFan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭
Put shadow image in back of objects no one see. Its only lasts 5 seconds, that too requires another NB to do it.Edited by Priyasekarssk on December 30, 2018 8:10PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.8 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What's broken about cloak is ONLY broken for magicka heavy builds. the fact it can be kept up indefinitely. Make it cost a % of max magicka.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the past I would've been open to cloak changes but now with how magblade preforms in PvP I feel like any negative changes to cloak will render the class even worse than it already is. Magblade is 100% feast or famine and far to often you find famine rather than feasts in today's game-play.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.
This is a very inaccurate statement. So much is seems to be grasping at straws.
I will just start with the first incorrect statement. To use shadow image as a counter to being pulled out of stealth one would have to set it up to start with which is extremely unlikely since few players try to pull them it of stealth. It’s why NBs usually freak out when they are pulled out of stealth.
I can only agree that a good NB isn’t so concerned about the counters but it’s because they can outsmart most players. Most players don’t seem to try to learn how to counter.
I know this because it’s me of the two classes I PvP on the most is a NB. Fee even try and when they do it’s laughable. Skills should not be nerfed because some players lack skill.2 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Played a stamblade for a month, found it sickly OP and went back to my sorc.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.3 -
Vanzen✭✭✭✭✭Played a stamblade for a month, found it sickly OP and went back to my sorc.
This exept I stay on my Stam Nb.
Ashamed tough how easy it is compared to anything else.
Cloak is so op, its a joke. I put it on both bar insteaf of fear.
Shackle/Sload/Domi/Molag
I cloak all day long with insane stat and sustain.
Instead of Light attack/Skil rotation I can do Cloak (so crit ..)/Skil ...
Guess how fun is it for the "casual" oponent ...
As far as am concerned if they got rid of this class that has been ruining pvp from day one, I ll go dancing naked in the streets.Edited by Vanzen on December 30, 2018 9:49PM5 -
Flame_of_Hades✭✭✭Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.
This is a very inaccurate statement. So much is seems to be grasping at straws.
I will just start with the first incorrect statement. To use shadow image as a counter to being pulled out of stealth one would have to set it up to start with which is extremely unlikely since few players try to pull them it of stealth. It’s why NBs usually freak out when they are pulled out of stealth.
I can only agree that a good NB isn’t so concerned about the counters but it’s because they can outsmart most players. Most players don’t seem to try to learn how to counter.
I know this because it’s me of the two classes I PvP on the most is a NB. Fee even try and when they do it’s laughable. Skills should not be nerfed because some players lack skill.
Isn't that what they did with dk wings?
So, before I start, let me just say that I mained stam blade for 2 years, and I still play it often. Will that keep the formblades away? Plz?
Cloak is either very, VERY OP, or useless. 95%of the time it is broken AF. I hit cloak and laugh as my health goes back to full while charging my incap. On the other hand, spin 2 win and other a.o.e is a good counter, but since I know that, I invested in 3 swift (lost a bit of stam, but worth it) and was able to out WALK the a.o.e spam, even after the swift nerfs. Why does alot of 1vx work? LoS. Why is stam blade the best solo class? Instant LoS, anywhere, any time.
Solution? Cloak gives self minor defile. Test this, and then if it has little effect, try adding no magicka regen while in cloak.2 -
LeifErickson✭✭✭✭✭
✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »I feel like the biggest problem of cloak is that it's not fun to fight against. It's really frustrating for your opponent if you are using cloak effectively and I think that's why people are so annoyed with the skill.
I have no problem with cloak. But NB damage and CC needs some serious nerf. Very serious . 35K dps within 2 seconds is ridiculous . NB can have builds up to 7K+ weapon or spell damage , which is down right stupid. Only DKs , wardens with heavy armor meta can survive that ***.
What ZOs wants is every one run around with 35K+ resistance with good healing in DKs & wardens with seventh legion with 3.5K weapon damage and 7k penetration. Combine dawn-breaker at same time. Roll over entire map as immortals.
Now almost entire cyrodil population is DKs or wardens with some healers here and there.
Complete crap . Right now ZOs is full EP xenophobics only buff EP races and classes excluding wardens. See DK with lizards immortals even with 10+ mage sorcs. DK warden another immortals. Magicka NBs with Dark elf never nerfed or other dps classes buffed. All trials only magicka NB dps. Why cant buff other class DPS ? On duels top 10 its only Nbs , DKs and wardens. In Bgs I simply quit if I have light armor build in my team and opponents have 4 DKs or 4 Wardens or 4 NBs . Its simple waste of time.
Only aim of balance team is for EP to win all alliance wars ? Ok lets all play EP.
Who cares , Noob streamers want it to kill potatoes and self proclaim themselves as pros. Post murkmire *** entire cyrodil is tank mania.
Huh?1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.
This is a very inaccurate statement. So much is seems to be grasping at straws.
I will just start with the first incorrect statement. To use shadow image as a counter to being pulled out of stealth one would have to set it up to start with which is extremely unlikely since few players try to pull them it of stealth. It’s why NBs usually freak out when they are pulled out of stealth.
I can only agree that a good NB isn’t so concerned about the counters but it’s because they can outsmart most players. Most players don’t seem to try to learn how to counter.
I know this because it’s me of the two classes I PvP on the most is a NB. Fee even try and when they do it’s laughable. Skills should not be nerfed because some players lack skill.
Isn't that what they did with dk wings?
So, before I start, let me just say that I mained stam blade for 2 years, and I still play it often. Will that keep the formblades away? Plz?
Cloak is either very, VERY OP, or useless. 95%of the time it is broken AF. I hit cloak and laugh as my health goes back to full while charging my incap. On the other hand, spin 2 win and other a.o.e is a good counter, but since I know that, I invested in 3 swift (lost a bit of stam, but worth it) and was able to out WALK the a.o.e spam, even after the swift nerfs. Why does alot of 1vx work? LoS. Why is stam blade the best solo class? Instant LoS, anywhere, any time.
Solution? Cloak gives self minor defile. Test this, and then if it has little effect, try adding no magicka regen while in cloak.
No it want. With DK wings no ken could touch them with a range build. The only thing one could do was HA with resto staff or use melee skills against them.
Not even close but good try.
The sentence you made bold was that the issue is that player lack skill in using the numerous counters so they ask for the skill to be nerfed. It comes down to a L2P issue but it’s easiet to QQ in the forums.0 -
Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭Since only a select few people are actually producing arguments - for which you have my thanks
- to back up their claims and it seems hard to pinpoint whether or not cloak is too strong, let me ask another question.
A challenge, if you will.
Give me the name of another skill in ESO that offers the consistent protection, control, and combat potency that cloak does.
A skill that offers at least as many or more benefits than those I listed in the first post.
If that skill is another NB skill, you lose at life so don't pick from those lines.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since only a select few people are actually producing arguments - for which you have my thanks - to back up their claims and it seems hard to pinpoint whether or not cloak is too strong, let me ask another question.
A challenge, if you will.
Give me the name of another skill in ESO that offers the consistent protection, control, and combat potency that cloak does.
A skill that offers at least as many or more benefits than those I listed in the first post.
If that skill is another NB skill, you lose at life so don't pick from those lines.
Mage light, either morph (radiant is better for this discussion though). It is great for pulling NBs out of stealth and keeping them out.2 -
moosegod✭✭✭I don't think drinking a potion is so bad, it doesn't leave you ineffective. You can tack on major vitality, crit, or I think magicka? to detect potions. Drink one and the NB is basically dead in the water, they often don't even realize.
Also, the non-invis cloak is probably more powerful if you're building for it.Edited by moosegod on December 30, 2018 10:18PM0 -
Having 1 of every Stam class, I always find nightblade to be my go to when metas change or I'm having a bad day. They are incredibly strong solo, nobody denies that. Cloak is amazing LOS and mixed with shadow imagine all but negates any mobility nerfs especially if you can change elevations. I can always hop on my nightblade and secure a 1vX.
I wish they would meaningfully improve other classes to match NB utility instead of nerfing nightblades. I don't think nightblade is grossly overpowered. I feel they have the toolkit to supass nerfs and meta changes easily.
The only really broken skill they have is suprise attack. It should be minor fracture not major fracture. A high damage spammable shouldn't have a major debuff attached, but that's just my opinion.1 -
Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭Since only a select few people are actually producing arguments - for which you have my thanks - to back up their claims and it seems hard to pinpoint whether or not cloak is too strong, let me ask another question.
A challenge, if you will.
Give me the name of another skill in ESO that offers the consistent protection, control, and combat potency that cloak does.
A skill that offers at least as many or more benefits than those I listed in the first post.
If that skill is another NB skill, you lose at life so don't pick from those lines.
Mage light, either morph (radiant is better for this discussion though). It is great for pulling NBs out of stealth and keeping them out.
Really?
Magelight increases your maximum magicka by 7% (with the passive) and magicka regen by 2%
Alternatively, it'll dampen damage of a blow dealt from sneak for the other morph.
It grants Major Prophecy, increasing crit chance by 10%
Upon use, it reveals hidden opponents within 6 meters.
After use, your first light attack deals 20% more damage.
That is not gamechanging at all.
Potent yes. But this skill won't turn the tide in any fight. It's nowhere near as strong as cloak.
Edited by Aedrion on December 30, 2018 10:21PM3 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭If cloak gets tuned without other changes then magblades are going to be more rare than they already are. I do agree cloak needs adjustments but I am a level headed person and know ZOS wont do them right and just neuter the class instead.
The one change that might be simple enough is to take away Dot suppression off cloak. Leave everything else as is. You can dot up an NB and keep some pressure at least. Any other changes will virtually kill off the skill and the class. Also, lest we need MORE tank builds in pvp from a cloak nerf.Joined September 20132 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭If cloak gets tuned without other changes then magblades are going to be more rare than they already are. I do agree cloak needs adjustments but I am a level headed person and know ZOS wont do them right and just neuter the class instead.
The one change that might be simple enough is to take away Dot suppression off cloak. Leave everything else as is. You can dot up an NB and keep some pressure at least. Any other changes will virtually kill off the skill and the class. Also, lest we need MORE tank builds in pvp from a cloak nerf.
It’s simple for you to suggest, but not simple for ZoS to implement.
Last time they tried to change how cloak interacts with dots, it got broken for a few patches. Was it when dark cloak used to purge dots? Think so...
Honestly, I don’t believe in ZoS programmers much (look at Cyro performance), and with all my dislike to stamblades, I don’t want their class-defining skill to be ruined.
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If cloak gets tuned without other changes then magblades are going to be more rare than they already are. I do agree cloak needs adjustments but I am a level headed person and know ZOS wont do them right and just neuter the class instead.
The one change that might be simple enough is to take away Dot suppression off cloak. Leave everything else as is. You can dot up an NB and keep some pressure at least. Any other changes will virtually kill off the skill and the class. Also, lest we need MORE tank builds in pvp from a cloak nerf.
It’s simple for you to suggest, but not simple for ZoS to implement.
Last time they tried to change how cloak interacts with dots, it got broken for a few patches. Was it when dark cloak used to purge dots? Think so...
Honestly, I don’t believe in ZoS programmers much (look at Cyro performance), and with all my dislike to stamblades, I don’t want their class-defining skill to be ruined.
Yet your thread implies it's simple to suggest adding penalties/caveats to Cloak without hurting Magblades even more.
I was open to the idea of the "Streak treatment" at one point in time, but with the continuous nerfs to our sustain it would just be ridiculous at this point.
I'm still waiting for a balanced idea that is fair for both sides. Until presented it needs to be left alone.1 -
Jaxaxo✭✭✭✭Since only a select few people are actually producing arguments - for which you have my thanks - to back up their claims and it seems hard to pinpoint whether or not cloak is too strong, let me ask another question.
A challenge, if you will.
Give me the name of another skill in ESO that offers the consistent protection, control, and combat potency that cloak does.
A skill that offers at least as many or more benefits than those I listed in the first post.
If that skill is another NB skill, you lose at life so don't pick from those lines.
Wings.
Of course not the level of cloak, which imo should be nerfed somehow, but still, imo pretty close.Forum War - pro AC side
EU PC Azura Star/Sotha Sil/Bahlokdaan/Ravenwatch
Triggered Tryhards / Aetherius Art / LND / DC-PD
DC - Frostitute magden
AD - Pees-under-Trees magden
DC - Lemme Dark Deal stamsorc
EP - Lemme Dark Déal stamsorc
Youtube1 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »If cloak gets tuned without other changes then magblades are going to be more rare than they already are. I do agree cloak needs adjustments but I am a level headed person and know ZOS wont do them right and just neuter the class instead.
The one change that might be simple enough is to take away Dot suppression off cloak. Leave everything else as is. You can dot up an NB and keep some pressure at least. Any other changes will virtually kill off the skill and the class. Also, lest we need MORE tank builds in pvp from a cloak nerf.
It’s simple for you to suggest, but not simple for ZoS to implement.
Last time they tried to change how cloak interacts with dots, it got broken for a few patches. Was it when dark cloak used to purge dots? Think so...
Honestly, I don’t believe in ZoS programmers much (look at Cyro performance), and with all my dislike to stamblades, I don’t want their class-defining skill to be ruined.
Yet your thread implies it's simple to suggest adding penalties/caveats to Cloak without hurting Magblades even more.
I was open to the idea of the "Streak treatment" at one point in time, but with the continuous nerfs to our sustain it would just be ridiculous at this point.
I'm still waiting for a balanced idea that is fair for both sides. Until presented it needs to be left alone.
But it’s not my thread...
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IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Anyone saying Cloak doesn't need an adjustment isn't considering overall balance. Any skill that requires a hard counter is by definition broken.
Using magelight/evil hunter as an argument to counter cloak isn't objective. I literally laugh when I see people trying to Magelight/Evil Hunter me out of stealth. It's so easy to dodge roll out of range or out maneuver someone that has no idea where you are. And I can dodge roll infinitely because Cloak helps me conserve stamina. It also requires people building to specifically counter a single class. By that logic, shields shouldn't have been nerfed either because you can just run bleeds, oblivion or shield breaker and bypass the primary mitigation for light armor.
AoEs as a counter?
You can spam Cloak in a permafrost to remain untargetable. Sure stealth is broken and you still take damage but you still force miss any skills and you can couple it with dodge roll or just prevent enemy players from targeting you because you still vanish from the enemy screen even if its for a fraction of a second. Cloak already soft counters its soft counters on its own.
Nightblade does not need Cloak to be effective, though admittedly this is less true for SOLO open world magblade. Plenty of stamina nightblades run open world without Cloak. I've fought stamina nightblades on my stamina night blade, refusing to Cloak myself and still win the fight. As for magblades, they need something else. Cloak spam will never be a viable form of mitigation for that class. For stamina, a class with strong hots and good innate mobility, cloak over performs by miles. As a magblade, cloak is a crutch that barely supports the class (most good magblades don't run Cloak) but also prevents the class from receiving any other buffs.
Personally I would opt to halt health recovery and reduce healing while in Cloak. Keep the DoT suppression, but the ability to disappear in execute and reappear at full health is ridiculous op.
To compensate buff Dark Vigor to provide a constant health increase and add in health recovery per shadow ability. Then Change Soul Siphoner to provide constant a healing buff and add an effect that grants a small HoT immediately after using a siphoner ability.
This would keep Cloak as a strong relocation ability and preserve its offensive benefits. But it drastically reduces Cloaks ability to reset fights. The ability to choose engagements is strong enough as it is. Being able to soft reset a fight every other second is way to much. To compensate, nightblades would become marginally more robust and have better survivability outside of Cloak.
Alternatively, buff Cloak duration to 3.5 seconds but every cast within 4.5 seconds reduces the duration by 1 second down to a minimum of a 0.5 second duration. So chaining cloak back to back to back to back would still gives 8 seconds of pure invisibility. This would have virtually no effect on players that do not abuse Cloak. It will however prevent mindless cloak spam.Edited by IAVITNI on December 30, 2018 11:35PM8 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since only a select few people are actually producing arguments - for which you have my thanks - to back up their claims and it seems hard to pinpoint whether or not cloak is too strong, let me ask another question.
A challenge, if you will.
Give me the name of another skill in ESO that offers the consistent protection, control, and combat potency that cloak does.
A skill that offers at least as many or more benefits than those I listed in the first post.
If that skill is another NB skill, you lose at life so don't pick from those lines.
Mage light, either morph (radiant is better for this discussion though). It is great for pulling NBs out of stealth and keeping them out.
Really?
Magelight increases your maximum magicka by 7% (with the passive) and magicka regen by 2%
Alternatively, it'll dampen damage of a blow dealt from sneak for the other morph.
It grants Major Prophecy, increasing crit chance by 10%
Upon use, it reveals hidden opponents within 6 meters.
After use, your first light attack deals 20% more damage.
That is not gamechanging at all.
Potent yes. But this skill won't turn the tide in any fight. It's nowhere near as strong as cloak.
You should know what a skill actually does before commenting on it. You described innerlight. I mentioned mage light and that radiant is more appropriate for this discussion.
The most significant reason I mentioned this skill is that it can reveal someone that is in stealth and prevent them from going back into stealth. It is very effective in the hands of a player that knows how to use it. It also prevents a stun when attack by someone that attacks you from stealth greatly increasing survival in those situations.
The more accurate answer to the question thought would be streak. On my mSorc I escape with streak and laugh at those trying to catch me. It is so hilarious.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.
This is a very inaccurate statement. So much is seems to be grasping at straws.
I will just start with the first incorrect statement. To use shadow image as a counter to being pulled out of stealth one would have to set it up to start with which is extremely unlikely since few players try to pull them it of stealth. It’s why NBs usually freak out when they are pulled out of stealth.
I can only agree that a good NB isn’t so concerned about the counters but it’s because they can outsmart most players. Most players don’t seem to try to learn how to counter.
I know this because it’s me of the two classes I PvP on the most is a NB. Fee even try and when they do it’s laughable. Skills should not be nerfed because some players lack skill.
What You said have no sense.0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.
This is why I think cloak needs the streak and dodge roll treatment. Outside of hurricane the other counters work once against a decent NB maybe. Hurricane doesn't even prevent a good NB from cloaking. There is no penalty for messing up when using cloak which is a problem.
Dodge roll against the wrong attack it costs more to dodge roll the heavy burst you should have. Streak in the wrong direction or time and now it drains your mag pool significantly. Cloak at the wrong time? No worries just keep spamming it till it works (even on stamblade) and god forbid you make an adjustment now that you have seen their tactics for trying to prevent you and your as good as gone.
Also snipe needs buffed/fixed to be a proper spammable outside of cloak abuse. But instead we will likely see snipe broken further so it's worthless to other bow specs while cloak continues to be troll.
But I also think magblade deserves a buff somewhere else to compensate. Buff the other morph of cloak maybe to be appealing to magblade. Or make strife unreflectable so DKs aren't a cloak away or die scenario.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.
This is a very inaccurate statement. So much is seems to be grasping at straws.
I will just start with the first incorrect statement. To use shadow image as a counter to being pulled out of stealth one would have to set it up to start with which is extremely unlikely since few players try to pull them it of stealth. It’s why NBs usually freak out when they are pulled out of stealth.
I can only agree that a good NB isn’t so concerned about the counters but it’s because they can outsmart most players. Most players don’t seem to try to learn how to counter.
I know this because it’s me of the two classes I PvP on the most is a NB. Fee even try and when they do it’s laughable. Skills should not be nerfed because some players lack skill.
What You said have no sense.
To be fair, the person I quoted made no sense because their statement was not accurate.
They tried to claim that NBs had counters to the counters which is just plain false. That simplifies the response you had trouble with.Edited by idk on December 31, 2018 1:06AM1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »If cloak gets tuned without other changes then magblades are going to be more rare than they already are. I do agree cloak needs adjustments but I am a level headed person and know ZOS wont do them right and just neuter the class instead.
The one change that might be simple enough is to take away Dot suppression off cloak. Leave everything else as is. You can dot up an NB and keep some pressure at least. Any other changes will virtually kill off the skill and the class. Also, lest we need MORE tank builds in pvp from a cloak nerf.
It’s simple for you to suggest, but not simple for ZoS to implement.
Last time they tried to change how cloak interacts with dots, it got broken for a few patches. Was it when dark cloak used to purge dots? Think so...
Honestly, I don’t believe in ZoS programmers much (look at Cyro performance), and with all my dislike to stamblades, I don’t want their class-defining skill to be ruined.
Yet your thread implies it's simple to suggest adding penalties/caveats to Cloak without hurting Magblades even more.
I was open to the idea of the "Streak treatment" at one point in time, but with the continuous nerfs to our sustain it would just be ridiculous at this point.
I'm still waiting for a balanced idea that is fair for both sides. Until presented it needs to be left alone.
But it’s not my thread...
My bad saw the same icon and thought you were the OP.0 -
nckg84✭✭✭Why not make cloak the same as mist form? For what I see now, is that cloak is a free ticket out of death with the abuse of people using trollking and heals during the cloak. Mist form also gets no healing so why not.
It is also not a free ticket out of death as the counters are easy to use for anyone that has bothered to learn to use them.
And those counters are easily countered by shadow image , roll dodge etc for any nightblade that bothered to learn to use them.
It's so easy to counter cloak counters it's almost laughable people are still coming with that argument about how easily counterable cloak is. Some of those counters are so easy to counter that calling them soft counters is overstatement. Good stamblades dont give a damm about those counters.
I mean yes occasionally You can die to it especially when attacked by multiple opponents but that can be said literally about any ability in the game. Combined with other skills/sets cloak IS a free ticket out of death.
This is a very inaccurate statement. So much is seems to be grasping at straws.
I will just start with the first incorrect statement. To use shadow image as a counter to being pulled out of stealth one would have to set it up to start with which is extremely unlikely since few players try to pull them it of stealth. It’s why NBs usually freak out when they are pulled out of stealth.
I can only agree that a good NB isn’t so concerned about the counters but it’s because they can outsmart most players. Most players don’t seem to try to learn how to counter.
I know this because it’s me of the two classes I PvP on the most is a NB. Fee even try and when they do it’s laughable. Skills should not be nerfed because some players lack skill.
What You said have no sense.
To be fair, the person I quoted made no sense because their statement was not accurate.
They tried to claim that NBs had counters to the counters which is just plain false. That simplifies the response you had trouble with.
Smack on some well fitted gear and roll dodge around going into cloak. On your bow bar you get the speed buff. Good luck finding him.
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nckg84✭✭✭Anyone saying Cloak doesn't need an adjustment isn't considering overall balance. Any skill that requires a hard counter is by definition broken.
Personally I would opt to halt health recovery and reduce healing while in Cloak. Keep the DoT suppression, but the ability to disappear in execute and reappear at full health is ridiculous op.
This would keep Cloak as a strong relocation ability and preserve its offensive benefits. But it drastically reduces Cloaks ability to reset fights. The ability to choose engagements is strong enough as it is. Being able to soft reset a fight every other second is way to much. To compensate, nightblades would become marginally more robust and have better survivability outside of Cloak.
This alone explains the whole problem. Anyone not recognising the issues here is just defending his daily dose of easy mode.
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