I'm sure I'm in the minority but...

Abigail

preevious wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

Ah, but I'll bet you're not against selling these same motifs. Pride and greed are intimate bedfellows.

Ah, an Ad Hominem attack, now? Insult me all you want, for all I care.
There is plenty of ways to make gold, in this game, motifs are really not so important in that regard.
It's just that cheapening any achievement is not fun for those who got them, is all

But frankly, since you seem highly preoccuped by the other players playstyles .. I'll never understand why people like you think it's shamefull to raise gold in this game, calling other people "greedy" and the like .. why would anyone be ashamed? I need gold to buy every furnishing plan, because that's as good a goal as to become emperor, or to solo vet trials or whatnot ..

I play like I want, without grieving others... you should cut the judgemental crap and do the same, maybe?

Edited because my comment was unnecessary.

KRBMMO

Sylosi wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

One way to kill an MMO is by removing the incentive to play. When all the rewards become easy to achieve or are basically handed out wholesale the incentive to play becomes less.

MMORPGs are killing themselves by basically becoming bad mobile games with bad, dull gameplay which is secondary to "rewards". Hence in a time where there has been a massive influx of online gamers MMORPGs have barely captured any of them and gone from mainstream to niche in under 10 years.

They hand out "rewards" wholesale because braindead Skinner Box zombies is mostly what their playerbase consists of now.

Skinner Box Zombies is worth repeating.

Run the maze - reward. Run the maze twice - smaller reward. Repeat until you are running the maze 100's of times for a slight chance to get a small reward that is then rendered valueless in the next event / update.

I guess that's fun for some people?

wolf486

One thing people on ESO forums forget is they are in the minority when it comes to this game. Casuals, solo pve players make up the majority. Getting a handful of motifs for "difficult to get" motifs might encourage them to go and get the rest, whether that is completing the content or by buying them.

Most players are not "meta chasers" and I constantly see posts on here about how trial groups will kick a Khajiit sorcerer. So if that is someone's main character what are they to do? This gives them a nice motif or two and they can avoid being those hideous altmers

preevious

Abigail wrote: »

Edited because my comment was unnecessary.

This is actually nice.
I also regret having snapped at you. I'm admittedly a bit irrate, but not because of you.
I had all the motifs gathered. With them being so cheap now, it feels a little dumb, now..
Oh, well, gotta aim for all furnitures, now.

Abigail

@preevious

No harm, no foul. And I do understand your plight.

Marcus684

They’re motifs. Who really gives two shats how someone got them. The motifs aren’t the real achievement for doing hard dungeons, the skins are. It seems like some people may invest too much personal worth in achieving things in video games.

yodased

The reoccurring theme is that people feel slighted because their achievements are diminished by other people having access to what they have.

So that means your motivation is not to complete the activity and get the reward, your motivation is to showcase your skill at the game so other people have respect for you.

If the collection itself was the motivating factor, then why does it matter how or why anyone else got the thing you have.

heaven13

Some people seem to be forgetting that dungeons have a rare chance to drop a motif on normal so people could already theoretically earn them without doing the vet content as is, even without purchasing them if you pretend the argument isn't really about cutting into profits.

Additionally, if you're so concerned about the achievement of the hard content, don't hide your monster helm. Those have to be earned. If that set's not meta...well, that's too bad.

There's zero way to tell how someone learned a motif (or even if they know a motif to begin with) so there's zero reason to be upset about this beyond people wanting to sell their extra copies.

peacenote

Agree, as others have said that, that since motifs aren't BOP, having them be more available for a limited time as a reward does not take away from the achievement for those who ran the actual dungeons and happened to get their motifs there.

I do dislike how various ZOS events always result in things being de-valued in the economy, whether it be motifs that are more available or mats being cheaper due to double nodes. I've always enjoyed the "crafting and economy mini-games" in MMOs, and unfortunately ESO just isn't that invested in the concept. I've made many posts lamenting how motifs, changing appearances, and changing traits weren't all somehow tied to crafting to make it more profitable for crafters, and instead forced more people on a research ladder even if they had zero interest in crafting. Which of course was truly done in the hopes that people would buy research scrolls in the Crown Store. The outfit station doesn't even have an NPC to take your gold, and you can change your look if you know the motif regardless of whether you have the crafting skills to make it yourself. Once non-cosmetic, non-exclusive things started being offered in the Crown Store, that was kind of it for a dynamic marketplace.

However that ship sailed a LONG time ago. If this was a brand new idea introduced in this event, I might be up in arms, but at this point it's clear that this is how things are, so I'd rather have the events, which I do enjoy, and hope they also entice others to try different content or log in a bit more. We just have to accept that the "supply and demand" model of our economy is fake due to the fact that the supply can and often is deliberately increased by developers more focused on (if you're optimistic) people having fun or (if you're cynical) making money in the Crown Store than they are creating a realistic economy. <shrug>

Jeremy

concegual wrote: »

Certain things in a game should be hard to get...Every game these days caters to the casual.
If one can't farm Fang lair, Scale caller or anything else a bit difficult in game they don't deserve the rewards or should be forced to buy them from someone who did earn them...These events handing out the things which are harder to earn for free lessen the game.
<Steps off soap box... rant over...

Your argument contradicts itself.

First you suggest players don't deserve the rewards unless they can complete the content themselves. But then you go on to say or they should have to buy them from those who can.

So it seems to me you are cloaking what is really a complaint about money items being reduced in value on the market due to events. It has nothing to do with players having access to rewards given from content they can't complete.

And these items aren't being given out for free. They have to earn them by completing a random dungeon via the activity finder.

mxxo

concegual wrote: »

Certain things in a game should be hard to get...Every game these days caters to the casual.
If one can't farm Fang lair, Scale caller or anything else a bit difficult in game they don't deserve the rewards or should be forced to buy them from someone who did earn them...These events handing out the things which are harder to earn for free lessen the game.
<Steps off soap box... rant over...

I would leave the game if only elitists would play it.

I_B_Squishy

The average player will get about 14 motifs (2 characters everyday) with max only 4 motifs from the same set, he'll have to farm the rest? I don't see a problem.

What_In_Tarnation

Gotta admit, I've learn all of motif by searching guild traders with really cheap price. Why? Cause I always sell these motif and not learn them while these motif remain expensive price. So i can make really good profit from them.

Then I wait for event started and getting these motif with pretty cheap price. It's a win-win to me. I got the money while hot stuff was hot and buy them cheap while these stuff are not that desired anymore.

ArchMikem

Don't deserve? lol This is a video game, people who have spent the money to own and access it deserve to experience any and all content provided by it.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

Couldn't agree more. Some items, achievements and goals in general should be hard to get as a mean to motivate and push the gamer to do better in order to obtain them. And since we are talking about motif pages in specific there is always the option to buy them from the guild stores (If someone doesn't want to be bothered with trying or can't farm them for any reason). But making those "rare" motives drop like candies from ridiculously easy content like normal fungal grotto 1 diminishes their value. It's the "too many lightsabers" thing over again.

Tigerseye

Yes, yes, you want to farm these motifs with your friends, corner the market, keep the prices high and the gold rolling in.

We get it - but, you could have just said that, instead of making out you're worried about some sort of vicious assault on the very fabric of the game itself.

Or, maybe you know you couldn't, because had you done that, you would have just sounded selfish and greedy?

Tigerseye

concegual wrote: »

never said i wanted them to buy them from me to be honest i'd sooner see them complete the dungeons and earn them...Posted this knowing everyone prefers the easier path :P and knowing I opened myself up to being condemned doesn't change the fact that games have been dumb down over the years and risk vs. reward has slowly been drained from most of them. Sorry yearn for the old days when games were a bit more hardcore...

I hear WoW are opening up vanilla servers, without LFD, or LFR (or pretty much anything else).

Everyone's happy about it, including the casuals, as they will finally get some peace and quiet, in the main game, without the hardcore kids whining about (and in) LFR, all day, every day.

Everyone wins.

D0PAMINE

Yeah and Daedric motifs used to sell for over 20k. So what.

Hochstapler

concegual wrote: »

Not against teaching folks all for it actually...just saying putting things behind an "earn it" barrier keeps the game more interesting. Giving it all away...IMO lessens the game and deters folks from trying to earn things...

But at the same time, you aren't against motifs being sellable?
Earning gold is done without any effort in this game, you just play the game and gold happens.
And it's been like that since day one.
Why did it took 4+ years for you to complain about this issue?

Tigerseye

concegual wrote: »

I would say somethings should be harder to achieve simply to keep that carrot dangled out in front us us give us something to work for... That one thing that in that moment drives us to log in...makes us ponder research... work to figure out how in the hell do I get passed that one boss or encounter etc... I know we all play for different reasons...but i prefer a challenge to an easy task i'd rather fail trying hard then receive the reward simply because i showed up...If there were no more challenges in a game and I were handed all the rewards I'd cancel my sub and go find a game which offered challenge. To be honest i haven't completed my fang lair or scalecaller motif's yet i'm close but not complete...I have sold many copies of one's I already had...But i would rather earn then then be handed them for queuing a random FG1. To each their own and like the name of the post says...I full accept i'm in the minority.

Been playing this game for 16 months, now (not counting the few months I played, at the very start, before I went and played something else).

I think it is a pretty good game, in terms of the areas and the content (both the quality and the quantity) and also, the added extras, like housing and furnishing.

However, I do find it somewhat overcomplicated, under-rewarding (at times) and over time-consuming, when it comes to things like trying to work out all the pros and cons of gearing and builds, excessive time-gating for every character's mount upgrades (don't mind it so much with crafting), being expected to do skyshards on multiple chars, trying to work out if you should even bother trying to get the motifs to craft certain writs (with low rewards and/or high costs) at all, travelling to guild stores (which have probably sold out of the motif, or whatever, by the time you get there) and then travelling to set crafting stations.

Often, for the exciting prospect of just 6 or 7 vouchers...

Although it is good that the game isn't totally simplistic (makes crafting more interesting, for a start); after a while, certain things can (and do, in my case) become somewhat tedious and annoying.

Too many steps to do everything, too many hours gone doing something less than interesting, too much to Google, too much to take into consideration, at any one time.

There may be a very few people who don't find it complex and/or grindy and/or time-consuming enough; but, I suspect they are (as you suggest yourself) in the absolute minority.

Also, please bear in mind that (due to, seemingly, overwhelming demand on forums, like this!) games companies have already tried to cater, specifically, to the truly hardcore and those who aspire to be like them.

Most of those games appear to have failed...

If the people claiming to want hardcore games were as numerous as they are (extremely) vocal, those games would have, presumably, done very well.

The fact they didn't says it all, as far as I am concerned.

Tigerseye

Hochstapler wrote: »

concegual wrote: »

Not against teaching folks all for it actually...just saying putting things behind an "earn it" barrier keeps the game more interesting. Giving it all away...IMO lessens the game and deters folks from trying to earn things...

But at the same time, you aren't against motifs being sellable?
Earning gold is done without any effort in this game, you just play the game and gold happens.
And it's been like that since day one.
Why did it took 4+ years for you to complain about this issue?

Maybe because now he can swap his gold for crowns...?

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

I agree with this but dont worry ur not alone is just that we the elitists dont matter since we in small numbers we cant provide as much $$$ as the casuals who must get the "Snowflake-care package"...

lagrue

concegual wrote: »

Certain things in a game should be hard to get...Every game these days caters to the casual.
If one can't farm Fang lair, Scale caller or anything else a bit difficult in game they don't deserve the rewards or should be forced to buy them from someone who did earn them...These events handing out the things which are harder to earn for free lessen the game.
<Steps off soap box... rant over...

There's a difference between hard and something overbearingly time consuming and completely random, just saying.

Maybe when you realize that you will realize why this thread is pointless and misses the actual point by a longshot.

(Also before I get some silly response - yeah I'm one of the people who went out and earned my Fang Lair etc. Grand Master Crafter and I know full well there's nothing "hard" about motifs - you just have to waste exorbitant amounts of time and get lucky, and if I could wish that away from other players, having suffered through it myself, then I would.)

Aeeeek

I have no problem with not being able to do the hard dungeons. But hitting a stone wall in the Summerset main quest(Vault), tried with a level 14 and my CP char, cannot see me soloing it and right now is my peak play time. Not many players doing it these days.

Tigerseye

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with this but dont worry ur not alone is just that we the elitists dont matter since we in small numbers we cant provide as much $$$ as the casuals who must get the "Snowflake-care package"...

Has your motif income gone down a bit, too, then?

Funny how none of you snowflakes in hardcore clothing seem to mind that people could always buy this stuff with gold and/or real money, anyway.

True hardcores - you know, the ones who are trying to kill games like WoW and have already killed many others - would object to that, too.

They would want it all locked behind the hardest content and bind on pick-up.

Of course, doing that would help kill this game, too and would also stifle your income far more than this event has.

So, I'm guessing you wouldn't actually want that?

jainiadral

Tigerseye wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with this but dont worry ur not alone is just that we the elitists dont matter since we in small numbers we cant provide as much $$$ as the casuals who must get the "Snowflake-care package"...

Has your motif income gone down a bit, too, then?

Funny how none of you snowflakes in hardcore clothing seem to mind that people could always buy this stuff with gold and/or real money, anyway.

True hardcores - you know, the ones who are trying to kill games like WoW and have already killed many others - would object to that, too.

They would want it all locked behind the hardest content and bind on pick-up.

Of course, doing that would help kill this game, too and would also stifle your income far more than this event has.

So, I'm guessing you wouldn't actually want that?

Nope, they just want to profit off us snowflakes. If we have a chance to earn things ourselves then they lose their ability to farm us economically while they look down their noses at us.

Editing-- and this shows that I need to log off and take a chill pill, because really, who cares?

MaxJrFTW

The ESO player base is by far the most casual of any game i've played. You just have to see how popular the whole housing thing is. ESO is also not a giant like WoW that can get away with catering to the hardcore minority. They can't afford to do so when the average eso player can't do 20k dps, and ive met 1000cp tanks that don't know how to block.