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Templars PvP - Detailed Guide, Suggestions, Advice, etc. - Elsweyr

  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    I've gone back and forth so many times between vamp and non vamp.
    The problems arise when you need that mist form, breaching keeps, escaping etc
    Templars lack mobility so its almost essential
  • Ariades_swe
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    Has Zos acknowledged the mitigation bug?
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Has Zos acknowledged the mitigation bug?

    No but tested and confirmed by multiple sources, including the creator of the build editor
  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    Minno wrote: »
    Has Zos acknowledged the mitigation bug?

    No but tested and confirmed by multiple sources, including the creator of the build editor

    What's the bug
  • Elong
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    Akinos wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Public Service Announcement regarding Auroran’s Thunder, the new dungeon set. It’s an underperformer, even in no-np, don’t bother farming for it.

    I tested it in open world, BGs, and dueling environments and the combat data was consistently showing it dealing less than half as much damage as Overwhelming Surge. Even with modifying my playstyle to maximize uptime. Too bad, I was interested in this one since a melee range frontal cone synergized so well with the magplar playstyle.

    You may want to remove it from your suggested sets.

    Edit: May have some utility if you can consistently get multiple targets into the AoE cone. But I never got it to perform.

    someone will find a use for it and get it to work. Not every set comes with penetration too.
    technohic wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    also I wouldnt go troll king as vamp. You only go from 120 HR to 600 hr lol

    Check it bacause there is a passive that reduced the health recover penalty. Ran it on my NB at times and you still wind up with decent HR. My problem with TK is it feels better if you are not taking damage. Cloak makes it okish as vampire, but it's true it is much better without vamp, maybe roll dodge build or under shields

    I did, had 600 HR on my build after forgetting I had vamp on. Instantly deslotted it because you waste a 2pc set on something you can get running non vamp without troll king lol.

    It's useless for templar.

    Weird. Just tested and my health recovery on my NB is 332 without the proc and 1557 with it. Stage 4 vamp. Of course, its khajiit but that only accounts for 100. Im getting twice your value just from Troll King alone. If I ran in stage 1 forgoing the revocering and undeath, but keeping the HR and damage penalty off in order to pretty much just use mist, I would get a good chunk more back and thats where I was thinking it with mists damage reduction could be nice.

    that would explain it. But why waste a 2pc that is 30% weaker when you can grab 200+ spell damage?


    I've had some success with a auroran thunder based build, i basically just stack aoe's. You can have as many as 5 aoe's going all at once, 6 for duels if you take out mistform and use an ice staff back bar with blockade. it's alot of pressure to most people. Don't really have any video of this build yet tho because I've been playing magblade more this update but I'll share it anyways, the stats are kinda crap but it is alot of frontal aoe damage.


    Full Frontal build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126179

    Not the strongest build I've ever played but hey it works xD

    *EDIT*I sorta agree with @Jimmy_The_Fixer about the set though, it's sorta weak on its own but when you stack it with multiple aoes it can be a pretty good damage supplement. It proc's concussion often too, which in turn makes everything else you cast do more damage.

    I've been playing my Magplar exactly like this, lots of dots, and with the added pressure of Aurorans, plus, the animation freaks players out a bit too I've noticed lol, they go on the defensive. It's a very fun set with added penetration too. It certainly suits a certain playstyle and does look weak on its own but as Akinos said it's fantastic on a certain set up.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Has Zos acknowledged the mitigation bug?

    No but tested and confirmed by multiple sources, including the creator of the build editor

    What's the bug

    I posted the exact problem on the first page top header.

    Basically if you are vamp, all fire sources are dealing more than the tooltip damages.
    Also impacts sorcs and nightblades, since it includes the 20% extra dmg after incap and concussed status effect.

    Till this gets reviewed and fixed, new players should try to remove vamp and add (1) shock resistance enchant to their jewels (Itade, shock, 160 rune)
  • Destyran
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    Elong wrote: »
    Akinos wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Public Service Announcement regarding Auroran’s Thunder, the new dungeon set. It’s an underperformer, even in no-np, don’t bother farming for it.

    I tested it in open world, BGs, and dueling environments and the combat data was consistently showing it dealing less than half as much damage as Overwhelming Surge. Even with modifying my playstyle to maximize uptime. Too bad, I was interested in this one since a melee range frontal cone synergized so well with the magplar playstyle.

    You may want to remove it from your suggested sets.

    Edit: May have some utility if you can consistently get multiple targets into the AoE cone. But I never got it to perform.

    someone will find a use for it and get it to work. Not every set comes with penetration too.
    technohic wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    also I wouldnt go troll king as vamp. You only go from 120 HR to 600 hr lol

    Check it bacause there is a passive that reduced the health recover penalty. Ran it on my NB at times and you still wind up with decent HR. My problem with TK is it feels better if you are not taking damage. Cloak makes it okish as vampire, but it's true it is much better without vamp, maybe roll dodge build or under shields

    I did, had 600 HR on my build after forgetting I had vamp on. Instantly deslotted it because you waste a 2pc set on something you can get running non vamp without troll king lol.

    It's useless for templar.

    Weird. Just tested and my health recovery on my NB is 332 without the proc and 1557 with it. Stage 4 vamp. Of course, its khajiit but that only accounts for 100. Im getting twice your value just from Troll King alone. If I ran in stage 1 forgoing the revocering and undeath, but keeping the HR and damage penalty off in order to pretty much just use mist, I would get a good chunk more back and thats where I was thinking it with mists damage reduction could be nice.

    that would explain it. But why waste a 2pc that is 30% weaker when you can grab 200+ spell damage?


    I've had some success with a auroran thunder based build, i basically just stack aoe's. You can have as many as 5 aoe's going all at once, 6 for duels if you take out mistform and use an ice staff back bar with blockade. it's alot of pressure to most people. Don't really have any video of this build yet tho because I've been playing magblade more this update but I'll share it anyways, the stats are kinda crap but it is alot of frontal aoe damage.


    Full Frontal build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=126179

    Not the strongest build I've ever played but hey it works xD

    *EDIT*I sorta agree with @Jimmy_The_Fixer about the set though, it's sorta weak on its own but when you stack it with multiple aoes it can be a pretty good damage supplement. It proc's concussion often too, which in turn makes everything else you cast do more damage.

    I've been playing my Magplar exactly like this, lots of dots, and with the added pressure of Aurorans, plus, the animation freaks players out a bit too I've noticed lol, they go on the defensive. It's a very fun set with added penetration too. It certainly suits a certain playstyle and does look weak on its own but as Akinos said it's fantastic on a certain set up.

    I was thinking 5 auroran thunder front bar 5 Cyrodiils light body 2pirate/Grothdarr/skoria helm and perfected asylum SnB/ICE stave back bar? Would it work or would I need double damage sets? I have 5 gold OS
  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    What's considered the bis pvp race at the min, for magplar
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    What's considered the bis pvp race at the min, for magplar
    Depends on your role really.

    DMG - High Elf or dark elf
    Balanced easy mode - Breton
    Niche brawler races - Imperial, kitty, redguard using staffs/2h/snb with ults, argonian
    Healer - breton, argonian, or high elf.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    @Syiccal the exact bug was found and explained like this:
    TheYKcid wrote: »
    @Reorx_Holybeard

    All vulnerabilities are additive with each other—and this summated modifier is then applied multiplicatively to incoming damage. This is intended and always worked that way, so that's another story.

    Actually, I meant the vulnerability is additive to damage taken mitigation...I did extensive testing last month on PTS for our build editor but haven't gotten around to posting about it due to the complexity and strange results. Basically the way it looks like it is calculating vulnerabilities is like:
    Vulnerability = Vulnerability1 + Vulnerability2 + ...
    DamageTaken = DT1 * DT2 * DT3 *...
    Mitigation = Resist * [b](DamageTaken + Vulnerability[/b]) * Block * Player * ....
    

    In fact, it gets even stranger in that the exact calculation depends on the order you apply the effects and then gets "reset" to the above calculation when you logout and back in. Depending on the order you can get everything going additive or everything going multiplicative. Took a long time to figure that all out. Should test on different mobs to make sure it is repeatable and still occurs. If anyone has recent data that either confirms or refutes this I'd love to set it.

    If you have no Vulnerabilities then everything (mostly, some strange rounding errors probably) works as you'd expect multiplicative stacking to work.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5864031/#Comment_5864031

    Sounds like you can get it to reset the calculation, but you have to log out. Or just drop vamp and add lighting enchant lol.
  • LiraTaurwen
    LiraTaurwen
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    Is the any good alternative to Mist Form? I'm still learning skills and how to play with my templar on pvp, I'm trying to make an healing build mostly. I noticed the damage increase but didn't know it affected vampires the most.. Is there any good skill to help with repositioning?
  • Datolite
    Datolite
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    How long does it usually take to fix these things? I'm really feeling the pressure from sorcs lately and I don't play often enough to spend all my time respeccing.

    If I was to drop vamp, would dropping Cyro Light be kind of part of the deal? Maybe replace it with impreg or something.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Is the any good alternative to Mist Form? I'm still learning skills and how to play with my templar on pvp, I'm trying to make an healing build mostly. I noticed the damage increase but didn't know it affected vampires the most.. Is there any good skill to help with repositioning?

    Only two options:
    - Race against time and purge snare.
    - Skooma smuggler set, but you need pirate skeleton in order to maximize your defenses enough to fit a 5pc offense set

    The other is using a rangeplar build so you can pressure at range and practice repositioning while shooting off your combos. But you will feel like a budget sorc.

    The other playstyle is to roll a balanced build with jabs and dark flare so you can engage both at range and in melee (which I believe templar really shines in the middle of the two).
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Datolite wrote: »
    How long does it usually take to fix these things? I'm really feeling the pressure from sorcs lately and I don't play often enough to spend all my time respeccing.

    If I was to drop vamp, would dropping Cyro Light be kind of part of the deal? Maybe replace it with impreg or something.

    You don't have to, but what offensive set can you use for monster set? Definitely go impreg over cyro light, the vulnerabilities seem to prey on high %based mitigation more than crits.
  • Datolite
    Datolite
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    Minno wrote: »
    Datolite wrote: »
    How long does it usually take to fix these things? I'm really feeling the pressure from sorcs lately and I don't play often enough to spend all my time respeccing.

    If I was to drop vamp, would dropping Cyro Light be kind of part of the deal? Maybe replace it with impreg or something.

    You don't have to, but what offensive set can you use for monster set? Definitely go impreg over cyro light, the vulnerabilities seem to prey on high %based mitigation more than crits.

    Interesting. That essentially cheapens the entire major/minor protection buffs.

    I was thinking of going Skoria with Auroran but I heard that sets can't trigger each other. I am still a big fan of Bloodspawn. I do feel that with Impreg I would have to 100% go with BTB or my mag pool/regen is gonna suck. I was hoping to test Auroran a bit more but it's hard to fit it in now.
    Edited by Datolite on March 20, 2019 1:02AM
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Datolite wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Datolite wrote: »
    How long does it usually take to fix these things? I'm really feeling the pressure from sorcs lately and I don't play often enough to spend all my time respeccing.

    If I was to drop vamp, would dropping Cyro Light be kind of part of the deal? Maybe replace it with impreg or something.

    You don't have to, but what offensive set can you use for monster set? Definitely go impreg over cyro light, the vulnerabilities seem to prey on high %based mitigation more than crits.

    Interesting. That essentially cheapens the entire major/minor protection buffs.

    I was thinking of going Skoria with Auroran but I heard that sets can't trigger each other. I am still a big fan of Bloodspawn. I do feel that with Impreg I would have to 100% go with BTB or my mag pool/regen is gonna suck. I was hoping to test Auroran a bit more but it's hard to fit it in now.

    Well what is happening is that fire or incap is providing 10% extra DMG. So unless people have 10% mitigation lying around, then it's best to drop the source.
  • Destyran
    Destyran
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    Minno wrote: »
    Datolite wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Datolite wrote: »
    How long does it usually take to fix these things? I'm really feeling the pressure from sorcs lately and I don't play often enough to spend all my time respeccing.

    If I was to drop vamp, would dropping Cyro Light be kind of part of the deal? Maybe replace it with impreg or something.

    You don't have to, but what offensive set can you use for monster set? Definitely go impreg over cyro light, the vulnerabilities seem to prey on high %based mitigation more than crits.

    Interesting. That essentially cheapens the entire major/minor protection buffs.

    I was thinking of going Skoria with Auroran but I heard that sets can't trigger each other. I am still a big fan of Bloodspawn. I do feel that with Impreg I would have to 100% go with BTB or my mag pool/regen is gonna suck. I was hoping to test Auroran a bit more but it's hard to fit it in now.

    Well what is happening is that fire or incap is providing 10% extra DMG. So unless people have 10% mitigation lying around, then it's best to drop the source.

    I’m high elf got Cyrodiils light and overwhelming with skoria I can’t really die in mist form but gosh do I take the damage from Grothdarr etc
  • Destyran
    Destyran
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    Minno wrote: »
    Is the any good alternative to Mist Form? I'm still learning skills and how to play with my templar on pvp, I'm trying to make an healing build mostly. I noticed the damage increase but didn't know it affected vampires the most.. Is there any good skill to help with repositioning?

    Only two options:
    - Race against time and purge snare.
    - Skooma smuggler set, but you need pirate skeleton in order to maximize your defenses enough to fit a 5pc offense set

    The other is using a rangeplar build so you can pressure at range and practice repositioning while shooting off your combos. But you will feel like a budget sorc.

    The other playstyle is to roll a balanced build with jabs and dark flare so you can engage both at range and in melee (which I believe templar really shines in the middle of the two).

    I was doing that with defile poisons and 70+ points in defiler it is a good playstyle.
  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    Does anyone know what the go to defensive set is at the min on pvp magplar.
  • Destyran
    Destyran
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the go to defensive set is at the min on pvp magplar.
    Transmutation group support
    Buffer of the swift. Reduce bleeds good for blocking temp
    Cyrodiils lights. Makes mist and meditate tanks also works when u jab or soul Assault if u get interrupted next spell free.

    Swift and trans with pirate skele 3 infused jewellery with spell damage and master staff is pretty cancer
  • Syiccal
    Syiccal
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    Destyran wrote: »
    Syiccal wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the go to defensive set is at the min on pvp magplar.
    Transmutation group support
    Buffer of the swift. Reduce bleeds good for blocking temp
    Cyrodiils lights. Makes mist and meditate tanks also works when u jab or soul Assault if u get interrupted next spell free.

    Swift and trans with pirate skele 3 infused jewellery with spell damage and master staff is pretty cancer

    Wouldn't that lack balance and dmg , as stats would be really low across the board, but yea tanky as f%$#
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the go to defensive set is at the min on pvp magplar.

    I posted an easy build that can be tweaked, it’s not a defensive build but you’ll be tanky and have enough spell damage and spell penetration to kill people.

    https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=128616
    Edited by CatchMeTrolling on March 20, 2019 8:42PM
  • Syiccal
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    I'm looking at pairing bright throats, cyrodills light, 1 chudan, 1 pirate.
    Anyone else use something similar
  • Mrsinister2
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    I'm looking at pairing bright throats, cyrodills light, 1 chudan, 1 pirate.
    Anyone else use something similar

    Ran that exact build and ran it with cyro light and shackle


    Both are very good well rounded builds just make sure you get your Stam in a decent spot with bright and cyro light.
    Edited by Mrsinister2 on March 20, 2019 9:00PM
  • Syiccal
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    Syiccal wrote: »
    I'm looking at pairing bright throats, cyrodills light, 1 chudan, 1 pirate.
    Anyone else use something similar

    Ran that exact build and ran it with cyro light and shackle


    Both are very good well rounded builds just make sure you get your Stam in a decent spot with bright and cyro light.

    Yea always try to have at least 16-18k stam.
    I usually use spring loaded infusion drink with bright throats
    Edited by Syiccal on March 20, 2019 9:20PM
  • Syiccal
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    I'm also thinking I can then get away with more dmg glyphs or what ever and use mediate to get regen across the board, as I'll take hardly any dmg while channeling it
  • Ariades_swe
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    @Minno I know you played rangedplar alot.
    What do you prefer for 1v1?
    Jabs or force pulse as spammable?
  • Minno
    Minno
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    @Minno I know you played rangedplar alot.
    What do you prefer for 1v1?
    Jabs or force pulse as spammable?

    Recently, neither. I use light attack weave with vamps bane. When I'm confident the dot will stick, and my target expects to be overconfident, I'll go into jabs. The initial hit of vamps bane, while lower than force pulse, is only 2k lower but has 14k dot so it's much higher for pressure. So you can decide when topush the dot or not, but forced piulse only has one function. If you are caught on defensive with force pulse, you won't have a dot component.

    Been practicing embracing both melee and range on my Templar and having decent results. Finding a decent playstyle for non-vamp as well for reposition.
  • Minno
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    @Ariades_swe
    At some point you'll see me weave in this video.


    Edit:
    Video also shows strength of buffer of the swift. And running race against time, windrunner with steed mundas.
    Edited by Minno on March 21, 2019 4:43AM
  • Ariades_swe
    Ariades_swe
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    Minno wrote: »
    @Ariades_swe
    At some point you'll see me weave in this video.


    Edit:
    Video also shows strength of buffer of the swift. And running race against time, windrunner with steed mundas.

    This looks really good. Do you put points into thaumaturge like a meleeplar?
    I gotta try it out. Thanks for the tips bud!
    What's your YT name?
    Edited by Ariades_swe on March 21, 2019 9:10AM
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